Im just not understanding Tales of Tribute

Isteris

I really like ToT, in terms of a card game the developer produced a true card game that could stand alone but at the start it does come across as mind bending confusion for what is in essence a very simple strategy game. In very simple terms each deck has a play strategy attached to it so deck choice is very important, I learnt this game by playing one deck at a time until I understood the strategy attached to each individual deck allowing me to pick decks that promoted my strategy and countered my opponents strategy. I would say if you enjoy RL cards take the time to learn it but if cards are not your bag forget it because it takes a lot of game time to learn and play well.

Mayrael

I loved Gwent (I even played The Witcher just to play more Gwent), but I really can't stand ToT. That says a lot. ToT relies way too much on RNG. I also enjoy collecting cards, but to improve my own deck — not to help my opponent.

Northwold

Practising against NPCs A TON made the game fun for me. You eventually learn the characteristics of the decks, the patrons, etc, how the combinations work, and so on. But, yes, it is overcomplicated for beginners and gets more complicated every time they add another deck.

GeneralGrundmann

Isteris wrote: »

I really like ToT, in terms of a card game the developer produced a true card game that could stand alone but at the start it does come across as mind bending confusion for what is in essence a very simple strategy game. In very simple terms each deck has a play strategy attached to it so deck choice is very important, I learnt this game by playing one deck at a time until I understood the strategy attached to each individual deck allowing me to pick decks that promoted my strategy and countered my opponents strategy. I would say if you enjoy RL cards take the time to learn it but if cards are not your bag forget it because it takes a lot of game time to learn and play well.

Exactly, try to start with one deck only, playing against the npc. Understand this deck. And then the next deck, and so on.

If you lose against the npc, try to understand why you lose.

Master the four base/main decks first. Crow has much power concerning combos, Hlaalu can score every turn through his patron. Pelin is straight-forward in your face and Celestarius gives you deck control.

After you understood each base/main deck, combine only these.

From there on, explore the other decks.

Yes, it takes time. But at least for me, it was a nice journey although I am not into card games.

And I (still) like to play a couple of games each day, especially against over players.

BXR_Lonestar

You're not the only one. I don't understand it. The game makes no sense to me. I've never completed the quest, and I have better things to do than to bang my head against something that isn't enjoyable to me and that I really don't care enough about to learn how to play. This is one quest where I will likely just leave it incomplete, which upsets me because I've completed every other one through Galen.

SeaGtGruff

Weesacs wrote: »

@JeroenB Thanks very much for the information. You have at least provided some insight into what is going on lol. I did eventually manage to complete the daily in Glenumbra - obviously luck. But as someone said above, there seems to be a high level of RNG involved as Im not entirely sure how I won lol.

Anyway, I wont be playing it again any time soon as I find it quite boring and not very engaging, which is a shame as it was something I was looking forward to.

I wasn't looking forward to it, and didn't start playing it until maybe a week or more after it was released, but it quickly became one of my daily "must do" activities in the game. At first I had trouble understanding how to play it, but once I finally figured it out, I was hooked.

Solvar wrote: »

My main problem is how long it takes to play a game. I played (and won) some games against NPCs, but my recollection is that the game took 15+ minutes to play. I didn't find it super complicated, but I've also played deck building games in real life, and that is basically what it is, and randomness has a big play.

In terms of play time, if I could do a game in 5 minutes, I'd probably play more as I'm finishing up for the evening and don't want to start a quest or something that is going to take longer than that (I often do some fishing or gathering in that situation). But if I have 15 minutes, that is almost certainly going to be long enough to do a quest, delve, or whatever, so I really haven't touched tales of tribute for a while.

I play exclusively against the NPC opponents, and the length of time it takes for each match can range from 5 minutes or less to 15 minutes or more, although I'd say the average is maybe 7 or 8 minutes-- in other words, most matches are closer to 5 minutes, and the matches that can last 15 minutes are rarer. Since I'm playing against the NPCs, and they make their moves pretty quickly, the length of each match is mostly determined by how long it takes me to make my moves and how decisively I'm winning or losing the match. I rarely need to play 2 or more matches against any given NPC, so I almost never lose, but if the RNG is heavily against me then I might have to play 2 or more matches before I win. Since it's one of my daily "must do." activities, I rarely mind how long it's taking to win 3 matches.

MorallyBipolar wrote: »

The creation of ToT convinced me that ZOS is totally out of touch with what the bulk of the ESO players are looking for from the game.

My advice is to not spend too much time learning the game. Focus on the parts of the game that are fun.

Since the OP said that ToT was something they'd been looking forward to, my advice would be to keep at it until they feel like they understand the basics enough to keep up with the tier 1 NPCs, who are limited to the first 4 patrons. Each patron’s deck has its own benefits and strategies, so it’s better to start by focusing on the first 4 patrons and then gradually branching out from there.

Scaletho wrote: »

Weesacs wrote: »

Ive just began the High Isle chapter and began playing Tales of Tribute however the truth is, I dont know what im doing lol. I dont play card games in real life so this is all new to me. Ive watched quite a few videos - over 2 hours of tutorials but im just not understanding the game.

I feel like I need some interactive tuition to understand the game i.e. play along side someone over voice comms so I can ask questions as the game is going on.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can learn this game? It seems really complex to me.

Cheers

Is there still someone playing this? How many? 10? lol

I don’t know about you, but I find it condescending and antagonistic whenever someone says “Does anyone still do XYZ?”, or makes some blanket assertion that “Nobody does XYZ anymore,” as though anyone who does do XYZ is either a complete nobody or isn’t worthy of being counted and considered. I mean, would players who enjoy running trials think it’s cool if someone were to say “Does anyone still run trials in this game? LOL!” Just because somebody doesn’t enjoy the same things that other people do doesn’t make it okay for that person to disparage or belittle the people who do.

Personally, I don’t play ToT matches against other players, so I don’t know how many players actively compete against other players, although looking at the leader board for ToT should give some idea. In any case, I’m pretty sure it’s more than 10 people.

And I don’t know how many people play ToT strictly against the NPCs, as I do, but I know that whenever I go to High Isle each day to accept the daily or turn it in, there are always other players going to or from the ToT club, no matter what time of day it is, which leads me to believe that there is a sizable number of ToT aficionados in the game.

Anumaril

Yeah ToT also confuses the heck out of me. I was expecting it to be like Elder Scrolls Legends (i.e., like Hearthstone), which I loved. But the end result ended up being a lot less satisfying to play and way more unnecessarily complicated.

The worst thing is that I absolutely adore minigames in games. Like smithing, alchemy, and dice games in Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, which every future RPG should implement some variation of tbh (crafting should be actual crafting, not selecting something in a menu and pressing "Make"). But the failure of ToT probably means ZOS will never again try doing minigames in ESO, which is a shame.

phantasmalD

AvalonRanger wrote: »

Witcher3 "gwent" UI.
We can easily understand buff-debuff mech and range concept.

ZOS game planners are really not good at visual communication with players.
10 years later from 2014, they're still rookies as game designer.

Counter argument: i have no idea what I'm looking at.
(Conclusion: this game that I've never played is absolutely trash. )

ToT is certainly not as complicated as TESL or any other TCG, by sheer virtue of having way less cards, mechanics and ideas in play.
The base gameplay loop is super simple: build a deck that can reliably build up resources (gold and/or power) every turn and outpace your opponent by spending your gold and power as optimally as possible.
Win either by generating enough prestige or buying all patrons.

Imo the problem is that the game can be fairly sluggish, which I'd attribute to two facts
- turns, especially with input-heavy combo decks, can feel really drawn out, and there are no tools to disrupt your opponent on their turns. No reactions or anything. The game could have used some traps or quick play cards, in order to engage players during the other player's turn, to stop them from just wanting to tab out.(Dominion, one of the biggest deck builders, for example has a whole slew of reaction cards)
- There's very little visual and auditory flourish; other card games use things little flashy animations or voice clips to make certain cards more impactful and engage our little monkey brains with stimuli. Or in the case of IRL card games, allows you to actively talk to your fellow player(s).

Other problems:
- Early turn RNG can be brutal; having a starting turn with less than <5 gold while your opponent draws a flawless 6 gold turn can really heavily stack things against you
- Shop RNG can feel unfair at times. Stuff like top-decking an ambush when the opponent have two high HP contract agent on the field. Or never getting the right cards for the combo you started building.

I personally like the idea of the game and I don't think it was a waste of time to develop it, having variety never hurts, but the game does kinda sabotage itself.

SeaGtGruff

Anumaril wrote: »

But the failure of ToT probably means ZOS will never again try doing minigames in ESO, which is a shame.

I don't think ToT is a "failure." It may not have widespread popularity among the playerbase, but that doesn't make it a "failure."

phantasmalD wrote: »

Early turn RNG can be brutal; having a starting turn with less than <5 gold while your opponent draws a flawless 6 gold turn can really heavily stack things against you

That scenario could only occur if the player went first and the opponent went second. I know some players consider going second to be an advantage because of the 1 extra coin, but I consider going second to be a severe disadvantage. Earlier today I lost twice to my first NPC opponent due to the NPC getting to go first and snatching up a powerful card, whereas my RNG during the first several turns was very bad and I was never able to catch up.

icapital

Mayrael wrote: »

I loved Gwent (I even played The Witcher just to play more Gwent), but I really can't stand ToT. That says a lot. ToT relies way too much on RNG. I also enjoy collecting cards, but to improve my own deck — not to help my opponent.

nah gwent isn't good, its certainly not better than ToT. gwent is about as deep as a puddle.

SeaGtGruff

icapital wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

I loved Gwent (I even played The Witcher just to play more Gwent), but I really can't stand ToT. That says a lot. ToT relies way too much on RNG. I also enjoy collecting cards, but to improve my own deck — not to help my opponent.

nah gwent isn't good, its certainly not better than ToT. gwent is about as deep as a puddle.

I've never played Gwent, or M:TG, or any of the other popular card-collecting/deck-building games. The only such game I've ever played was TES:Legends, which seemed interesting but was too difficult (for whatever reason) for me to get the hang of. I never tried playing against other players in Legends, just did some of the stories, puzzles, and computer matches, but it just never really clicked for me.

On the other hand, ToT seemed easier for me to grasp, and even though it was confusing at first, I quickly got the hang of it. But I know that the same reason I like ToT so much-- because it isn't anything like Legends-- is the very same reason that a lot of players dislike ToT so much, since the players who'd been asking for Legends to get added into ESO didn't get what they'd been hoping for, nor did they get anything suitably Legends-like so they could at least scratch their Legends itch once that game's servers were shut off.

Clearly, the same things don't appeal equally to everyone, which is okay.

ESO_player123

icapital wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

I loved Gwent (I even played The Witcher just to play more Gwent), but I really can't stand ToT. That says a lot. ToT relies way too much on RNG. I also enjoy collecting cards, but to improve my own deck — not to help my opponent.

nah gwent isn't good, its certainly not better than ToT. gwent is about as deep as a puddle.

I just recently started playing Witcher 3 and like it a lot, but so far I'm not really impressed with Gwent. I was expecting more judging by some posts I've seen. Every time I play it I ask myself the same question: 'Is this all there is to it?". ToT is definitely more interesting for me than Gwent.

Personofsecrets

I can teach you about Tales of Tribute over Discord chat. I'd ask that you have a way to share your screen.

M0ntie

I agree - the card game is horrible. It may be more the lack of explanation provided in game about how it works is practically non-existent. Like, what is the strategy of the game? I get you need to get 40 prestige, but what strategies do you aim for to get there quickly? How do agents work? I cannot understand the benefit of gaining patron's favour.
I've had several tries and I'm usually good at these types of games.

BXR_Lonestar

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Anumaril wrote: »

But the failure of ToT probably means ZOS will never again try doing minigames in ESO, which is a shame.

I don't think ToT is a "failure." It may not have widespread popularity among the playerbase, but that doesn't make it a "failure."

phantasmalD wrote: »

Early turn RNG can be brutal; having a starting turn with less than <5 gold while your opponent draws a flawless 6 gold turn can really heavily stack things against you

That scenario could only occur if the player went first and the opponent went second. I know some players consider going second to be an advantage because of the 1 extra coin, but I consider going second to be a severe disadvantage. Earlier today I lost twice to my first NPC opponent due to the NPC getting to go first and snatching up a powerful card, whereas my RNG during the first several turns was very bad and I was never able to catch up.

No ToT is cool for those who enjoy it. But that is a very small portion of the population, so having this as something to "draw" players in as an endgame activity is kind of a failure if you are looking to create an activity that will have wide-spread appeal. There were people who liked Concord too, but the game died within 2 weeks because it did not have wide-spread appeal. And Concord is known as an abject failure.

With ESO, ToT is just a side activity, so it is a little bit different, as we are free to ignore it and not engage with it. The crappy thing IMO is that we have to win some matches to complete a quest, which as a completionist irks the hell out of me. That is my main problem with it.

katanagirl1

ToT was confusing back when it came out, the in game tutorial was insufficient in describing the game in anything but the most basic way. That was when there were only four card decks, the later decks are much more complex. I guess the player still starts out with just the four? If not, then it would be hopeless to get started at all.

I actually enjoyed playing back then, but I just wanted a quick game and once the Mora and Almalexia decks came out, they required much more time commitment to learn how to use them and I lost interest. Also, requiring the player to play other players to get achievements really frustrated me as well. I think it was the Chimera one that made me decide to just quit playing it.

EDIT: typo

Vonnegut2506

The only reason Tales of Tribute exists is so that Infinite Archive isn't the worst activity ever added to the game.

disintegr8

I avoided ToT until I wanted to unlock the companion upgrade that required me to play it. Took a while to figure it out and now that it's done, will probably never play it again. Apart from being overly complicated for a 'card game', each game just takes too long.

And the stupid idea that reaching 40 prestige first doesn't guarantee a win is ridiculous.