Sorc class set "Beacon of Oblivion" now just a subclass set

Yudo · April 19

From the latest patch notes https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676209/pts-patch-notes-v11-0-0

"Daedric Summoning
General Skill Line: We’re removing the separation of a pet vs no pet build in this skill line now that sub-classing is here. Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole. Many abilities in this skill line have been adjusted with this in mind."

There are ongoing discussions on this topic but I want to draw attention to the class set Beacon of Oblivion.
This set falls apart and will be used to buff subclasses rather than the class itself for non-pet builds. Major contradiction.

Please allow for non-pet sorcs to utilise their own skill lines, and keep relevancy for class set to their own class.

IncultaWolf · April 19

This set is meta for werewolf DPS, parses higher than pillar of nirn, plus you get some health and armor lines. But yes I will agree the sorcerer class sets have been very underwhelming. I'm curious what they have planned for the dark magic skill line when they release the 3'rd round of class sets later this year.

Wereswan · April 19

Yudo wrote: »

From the latest patch notes https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676209/pts-patch-notes-v11-0-0

"Daedric Summoning
General Skill Line: We’re removing the separation of a pet vs no pet build in this skill line now that sub-classing is here. Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole. Many abilities in this skill line have been adjusted with this in mind."

There are ongoing discussions on this topic but I want to draw attention to the class set Beacon of Oblivion.
This set falls apart and will be used to buff subclasses rather than the class itself for non-pet builds. Major contradiction.

Please allow for non-pet sorcs to utilise their own skill lines, and keep relevancy for class set to their own class.

I'm seeing that less as a "contradiction" than as an indication of ZOS leaning into this.

Trejgon · April 19

Wereswan wrote: »

Yudo wrote: »

From the latest patch notes https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676209/pts-patch-notes-v11-0-0

"Daedric Summoning
General Skill Line: We’re removing the separation of a pet vs no pet build in this skill line now that sub-classing is here. Those who do not wish to interact with the pet gameplay can now replace this skill line as a whole. Many abilities in this skill line have been adjusted with this in mind."

There are ongoing discussions on this topic but I want to draw attention to the class set Beacon of Oblivion.
This set falls apart and will be used to buff subclasses rather than the class itself for non-pet builds. Major contradiction.

Please allow for non-pet sorcs to utilise their own skill lines, and keep relevancy for class set to their own class.

I'm seeing that less as a "contradiction" than as an indication of ZOS leaning into this.

Well it is more of the set was duplicating feature from the base class skill, but zos is trying to walk back on said feature in the first place. That being said, class sets were stated to still be only usable based on actuall class you are using, so this set is in conflict with the idea of what zos tries to sell daedric summoning as.

Funny side tangent: tje "many abilities" that have been adjusted with this shift in mind, is one active and what, one? two? passives...

Yudo · April 20

Trejgon wrote: »

Funny side tangent: tje "many abilities" that have been adjusted with this shift in mind, is one active and what, one? two? passives...

Can you quantify a few changes when the class only has 3 skill lines with each 5 active skills, one ulti and 4 passives skills?

1/3 skill lines only work with pets, and with Deadric Summoning:
3/4 passives only work with pets,
4/6 skills do not benefit from passives without pets,
and now 1/2 class sets do not benefit the class without pets, rather will benefit what ever subclass you choose.

Beacon of oblivion is now a zero effort Ansuul set for buffing multiclassing on a sorcerer rather than any sorc mechanic.
I can appreciate this is the direction they want to go, but its at cost of destroying class set concept, destroying non-pet sorcs playstyle and identity built over many years.

Even so, then this set should also be adjusted with the new changes in mind, though I strongly believe non-pet sorc playstyle should be preserved.

Ezhh · April 20

Maybe the set would be an issue if sorc had at least one desirable skill line for end-game, and then people could use sorc as a base to make a build and get a set with +15% damage. I'm not seeing a skill line on the class that buffs arc beam enough for that to happen.

madmufffin · April 20

The set isn't useful because all of the skill lines that you have to run to enable it suck

Trejgon · April 20

Yudo wrote: »

Trejgon wrote: »

Funny side tangent: tje "many abilities" that have been adjusted with this shift in mind, is one active and what, one? two? passives...

Can you quantify a few changes when the class only has 3 skill lines with each 5 active skills, one ulti and 4 passives skills?

The "many abilities" comment from the patch notes was placed in a position implying it was speaking about daedric summoning skill line specifically, not class as a whole. From the changes to this line, only one active ability and one or two passives were altered with mindset of daedric summoning being pet class to be removed if you want no-pet sorc in mind. Second ability altered was to make it play more nicely with dark magic stam semi-spammable, and third was changed to pre-emptively reign in the "lets do all the pets build" attempts.

Can you quantify that? yes. It is not "many" as opposed to commentary claim.

Yudo wrote: »

1/3 skill lines only work with pets, and with Deadric Summoning:
3/4 passives only work with pets,
4/6 skills do not benefit from passives without pets,
and now 1/2 class sets do not benefit the class without pets, rather will benefit what ever subclass you choose.

The point being that ZOS claims they have altered "many abilities" to get there, and even with those very few changes they did, in terms of active abilities, half of the daedric summoning are tools which do not really care about pets, which if you wanted to use, will come with dead weight passives now. Which I think we both agree on not being good situation to have skill line in.

Yudo wrote: »

Beacon of oblivion is now a zero effort Ansuul set for buffing multiclassing on a sorcerer rather than any sorc mechanic.
I can appreciate this is the direction they want to go, but its at cost of destroying class set concept, destroying non-pet sorcs playstyle and identity built over many years.

yeah, beacon of oblivion set lands in an awkward situation with this change of direction.

Yudo wrote: »

Even so, then this set should also be adjusted with the new changes in mind, though I strongly believe non-pet sorc playstyle should be preserved.

Personally I think there are two decent ways about it - either revert the nerfs and continue having daedric summoning as semi-pet skill line, that supports no-pet playstyle, or go full on it and actually overhaul the line - and the set that was meant to boost it - to properly reflect it is not the pet line. Which would mean that after all the changes, every skill should be either a pet, or directly interact with pets on all morphs, and set should then meaningfully interact with pets as well.
I'd also go another step further, and revisit the class script for sorcerer.

Turtle_Bot · April 21

Trejgon wrote: »

I'd also go another step further, and revisit the class script for sorcerer.

The Sorcerer class script is (imo) one of the few times ZOS got something right for Sorcerer.

The effect for non-pet sorcs provides some small cleave and a bonus damage instance (that damage instance is essentially an additional chance to proc crit surge, the class HoT) that non-pet sorcs are really lacking since ZOS removed the old Crystal Blast morph of Crystal Shards. It also leans into Sorcs Lightning sub-theme that has seemingly been largely ignored/forgotten about.

The effect for pet sorcs provides some nice consistent healing over time to pair with ward and/or matriarch/clanfear burst heals, making pet-sorcs less reliant on finding room for crit surge in an already crowded bar layout to fill this function that is typically lacking from pet builds that don't use scribing.

I honestly wish all the class scripts had been as well thought out as the Sorc one, as outside of Arc (for PvE) and Warden (for PvP) most of the class scripts are rarely, if ever, used.

The sorc class script is also why I am left so baffled by the current proposed changes made to Sorc for U46 (and the existing Sorc class sets) that just feel not thought out at all. It feels like there is a completely different team working on the U46 changes to Sorc to the one that worked on the Sorc class script for scribing.