Sub-classing should be limited to one skill line

Athan1

Sub-classing means you add a bit of flavour to your class, e.g. a Templar that uses light/fire magic and swaps out aedric spear for ardent flame.

Mixing and matching class skill lines is not sub-classing, it's DIY classes, or just builds. Basically all skill lines are up for grabs. This sounds like a goos idea on paper but it just dismantles classes as a concept. No more classes, just pick skill lines or skills that you like. I don't like that the concept of class will be retired. Class identity made this game interesting.

I think ZOS will come to regret giving so much freedom to players. Everyone will just be playing the same cookie cutter builds. A little variety is good, but too much freedom will create chaos imo.

amig186

Absolutely right, it should be a means to patch up the main weakness of your class, like lack of certain buffs or an execute, something that scribing was supposed to do but didn't. Not creating 'ultimate classes' by combining the best possible skill lines for tank, dps or healer that make it pointless to play anything else.

Toanis

Isn't it already "pointless to play anything else" but the current meta class?
A 2+1 setup changes nothing. Add whatever to Arcanist and you still need to play an Arcanist.

When the new mandatory meta build turns out to be a triple class, however, there are 3 base classes that can be played.

Erickson9610

You can't make an elementalist if you can't use Storm Calling, Ardent Flame, and Winter's Embrace at the same time. Subclassing should remain how it currently is.

SolarRune

Even if you can change two lines I think Arc will still be the meta base class for DD without changes to skills/passives from what they are now.

Only as Arc will you be able to have a banner that generates crux - that means as arc you can spend more time beaming than (for example) a warden with the Arc DD skill line because as Arc you will passively generate crux with your banner.

Equally calling for changes in something we haven't even had chance to play with as a community seems too early for me.

#edited for spelling because its early!

LukosCreyden

Nah.

Bobargus

I think there shouldn't be classes in the first place. Players should be allowed to learn and use all spells and abilities individually, however they wish.

Jestir

I heavily disagree with OP, most players already willingly choose to use "cookie cutter builds" and that won't change

i am perfectly fine with what we are being given

ForumBully

Disagree, the planned implementation is better. You must use one of your class lines and can't use two of the same other.
The system is fine like this, and honestly, if the game had launched this way it would have been better. I think this is the only system change in history where they laid out the perfect plan out of the gate, don't water it down

QB1

Bobargus wrote: »

I think there shouldn't be classes in the first place. Players should be allowed to learn and use all spells and abilities individually, however they wish.

Exactly this ^

Muizer

The whole subclassing thing seems risky to me. They could at least have mitigated that by starting with just one line exchangeable and see how it goes.

licenturion

Nah.

The cat is out of the bag anyway. It is announced worldwide, it launches in PTS Monday.

Too late to change now. I am looking forward making some great meme-builds with it.

I am levelling my few remaining skill lines now to 50 on my alts so I can start quickly when it comes. Great that this progress will be account wide, so I never have to ever level those again.

exoib

I agree.

magnusthorek

Cooperharley

Nah I like the idea of being able to mix and match up to 3.

Silaf

Agree i'm quite worried about this change. It sound fun but i fear it may end up like ibridization and tourn out to be a mess.

Remember that the team managing this is the same managing the economy in game...

Athan1

Muizer wrote: »

The whole subclassing thing seems risky to me. They could at least have mitigated that by starting with just one line exchangeable and see how it goes.

This is exactly my point. Class skill balance will be destroyed bc all class skills were tuned with the assumption you don't get other class skills. All passives, burst damage and execute skills will be gutted.

Throwing a splash of diversity with one other skill line would be cool maybe (e.g. a fire-ice dk) but DIY multiclasses are a recipe for disaster.

danko355

No. Contrary, I think it would be even better to be able to get 2 sub-trees from another single class, so make it even more flexible.

BahometZ

When all of your wishes are granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed.

ForumBully

BahometZ wrote: »

When all of your wishes are granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed.

My dreams were destroyed long, long ago in ESO. Bring back some fun for fun sake.

amig186

Toanis wrote: »

Isn't it already "pointless to play anything else" but the current meta class?
A 2+1 setup changes nothing. Add whatever to Arcanist and you still need to play an Arcanist.

When the new mandatory meta build turns out to be a triple class, however, there are 3 base classes that can be played.

And then they'll become the new standard that Zos balances the game around, and anyone who plays one of the "unoptimal" classes, or just likes how their class plays and doesn't want to completely rebuild it, will be left in the dust. Great.

Lags

they should make you keep at least one skill line from the class. otherwise whats the point in making you keep the class name? At that point just make it like some other mmos where you choose multiple skill lines to make a class. Like if you pick the 3 templar skill lines, then you're a templar. If you pick 2 templar skill lines, and a nightblade one, then you are something else. its really silly to use 2 nightblade skill lines, and a dk one, on your templar, and still be called a templar. Of course thats a lot of of names for different class combos, but that never stopped archeage, or even aoc.

I guess they really didnt think class sets through either. This kind of feels like a spur of the moment thing that they decided to do this year. Otherwise why even bother adding class sets.

ForumBully

Lags wrote: »

they should make you keep at least one skill line from the class. otherwise whats the point in making you keep the class name? At that point just make it like some other mmos where you choose multiple skill lines to make a class. Like if you pick the 3 templar skill lines, then you're a templar. If you pick 2 templar skill lines, and a nightblade one, then you are something else. its really silly to use 2 nightblade skill lines, and a dk one, on your templar, and still be called a templar. Of course thats a lot of of names for different class combos, but that never stopped archeage, or even aoc.

I guess they really didnt think class sets through either. This kind of feels like a spur of the moment thing that they decided to do this year. Otherwise why even bother adding class sets.

They do make you keep one line from the class you are. And you can't have two of a other class, only your own.

AcadianPaladin

I like hybridization a lot and it has added great flexibility to how I play.

Subclassing allows not just 7 or 8 classes but literally hundreds and I think that's great. The only thing I would prefer would be eliminating classes entirely.

amiiegee

They should not bring it out at all but if they did they should limited it to one skill, agree

gc0018

"sub" should mean less than 50%. Changing 2 out of 3 is definitely not a "sub"class

Athan1

This is multiclassing really. Having two skill lines from another class is called playing another class

Eliahnus

amig186 wrote: »

Absolutely right, it should be a means to patch up the main weakness of your class

I disagree. That's what scribing is for. Subclassing is not meant for this.

amig186

Eliahnus wrote: »

amig186 wrote: »

Absolutely right, it should be a means to patch up the main weakness of your class

I disagree. That's what scribing is for. Subclassing is not meant for this.

But it doesn't work.

Yudo

Depends on the vision.
If they want subclassing and keep emphasis on primary class, I agree limit to one skill line swap only.
If they want multiclassing at cost of identity to allow more options, then swap two.

Personally I prefer emphasis on primary class and would be happy with single skill line swap.

ADarklore

I don't like 'class as a concept' in the first place. It's dumb and limiting, and after YEARS of playing, becomes extremely boring. At least other MMOs add new classes constantly, for this reason, but ESO is built on an outdated engine and cannot add more classes... so this is the best solution to the problem. It not only answers the constant "class change token" demand, but also allows players like me the option to create MY OWN 'class'.

The devs said years ago that they originally planned ESO to be a regular MMO, but after a year realized that the majority of players did not want that, they wanted 'Skyrim with friends' and that's when they added One Tamriel. Subclassing just continues to build upon that 'Skyrim' plan, and I will be returning to the game because of it. Had this subclassing not occurred, I probably would never have returned to ESO... and I know I'm not alone, and that's something ZOS is counting on.