The Prologue's Writing is.... Well... [Spoilers]

GatheredMyst

There was one thing that turned me off of Gold Road's storytelling.

It wasn't the actual plot. That seemed fine.
It wasn't the characters. Those also were pretty good.

It was the tone. It felt like a cartoon: specifically, the way that lines were delivered, some of the decisions made for how characters speak or explain themselves, and how the story seems to need to point out every little thing to the player like they don't have a pair of eyes for themselves.

Walk up to a quest object? The NPCs will call it out, even if it's painfully obvious. Characters will have wild shifts in mood, often at random. Sometimes they will say or do things that make no sense for the moment or pull you out of the setting's more mature undertones.

And the prologue is really no different. Skold repeatedly calling you pal, and seriously so, even though he acts like he's never known me. The shallow way they seem to handle serious topics like the death of their guildmaster, swinging from sadness to solace to vigor like the swing of a pendulum. Heck, its particularly egregious in the new dialogue choices, where Prince Azah will get randomly pissed at you after he was mourning, only for the anger to subside in seconds, and for him to clasp you on the back in thanks.

And it isn't helped by the actual dialogue either. The voice actors do their best, but there's only so much they can do when their character literally has lines like: "how dare you talk to me like that... And stoke away my depression with the flames of resolve!"

Btw, he thanks you like you're a kid afterwards. "Well done."

It's honestly... juvenile? Not just how the characters behave, but the overall writing and hand holding in general. It's hard to get immersed in something when the game is constantly and actively pulling you out of the moment by a baffling writing choice.

I don't need them to point out an obvious exit when there are two giant doors sitting right in front of me. Ground your characters better. Pull back on the super friendliness or the exaggerated swings in tenor. If, for example, you want the end result of my telling a character to "get your act together" to be "you're right. I should be thinking with a more clear head", then just have them say as much like a normal human being would. Adding in the weird extra dialogue about burning away depression doesn't even sound good on its face.

I expect for my Elder Scrolls stories to be grounded, for the characters to be mature, and above all, to be immersed. As it's being written, the game seems to actively be trying to break that with some head scratching or outright baffling writing choices.

Again, it's not that plot is bad, but you can have a good plot that's delivered poorly. I suggest that you shore all of this up for Solstice before it impacts that content release as well.

Punches_Below_Belt

Is there anything more jarring than Vanus offering his assistance in a fight especially when your overpowered meta build has already obliterated the foes. Prince Azah is terrible.

ZOS writing has definitely been off since Blackwood turned Evelie into captain obvious. That Disneyesque Fox in the Gryphon scribing line was bad. I found Bergson and the other sidekick in West Weald awkward in a really bland and boring way.

But then you go to Infinite Archive and the Filers seem well done. Funny, genuine, appropriate.

AScarlato

I actually really liked the scribing questline In the middle of it was a great story about the growth and decay in relationships and eventually parting ways. It hit home for me in many ways.

I think a challenge for ESO is that it's not a particularly cinematic experience. There is a lot of "tell" via long speeches and less "show." As long as no enemies prove any sort of challenge, any threat supposedly in the story is undermined.

While it's great to have some recurring NPCs, our relationships with them remain surface level as our involvement in the story is that mostly of "listener" with no return in the relationships. As OP hinted at, they do seem to process sorrow and grief very quickly. It is often ignored or the tone has to return to light-hearted/fun very quickly.

I haven't done this prologue yet, but I did also notice the trend towards silly/"Comedic" tones in many quests which also lowered the stakes in what was happening.

TaSheen

AScarlato wrote: »

I actually really liked the scribing questline

I did too. I ran a lot of my alts through it after doing it on my mains.

whitecrow

I have noticed a cartoonish quality to NPCs for at least a couple years now. The druids in High Isle and Galen were particularly egregious. And Azzandar... ugh.

Faulgor

Most of these have been issues for a long time (though I agree with the others that the Scribing quest line was one of the best in quite a while).

What struck me in the prologue quest was how unrefined the dialogue seemed. Like there was no editor to look over it a second or third time. There are several repeated sentences iirc, and I counted 3 instances of a particular turn of phrase uttered by different characters which sadly escapes me right now ...

If this was supposed to whetten my appetite for Solstice, it missed the mark.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

This has been a thing for several years now. Feels like nothing is taken seriously and it's just a random mishmash of lines and quirkly lines and gimmicks. Like people could be killed, tortured, threat under daedra amd who knows what, but it doesn't feel like the npcs are aware of any of it. It's all just a casual day in the park.

Daedra, including the princes, are just silly beings and at worst saturday morning cartoon Villains who aren't the slighest threatening or enigmatic.

Syldras

I played the prologue in the German translation yesterday evening.

The first negative thing that came to my attention was how repetative the dialogues were - once again. One situation seems especially absurd: You search for documents together with an npc, if you pick the document up it will open - and I think people interested in the story will read it - , and then you have to describe everything you just read to the npc through dialogue a second time once you found all of them, lenghtily, in detail?! It's probably nice for people who don't care to read lore books, so they still know what's going on, but for people who read them, it feels very redundant. It also made me wonder whether they expect the player not to read the lore books anyway, which would be a little sad.

Then of course, I also noticed the "mood swings". Something horrible happens, people are distraught - five minutes later they're fine again. I understand that they don't want the prologue to end pitch-black, with everybody just depressed and mourning. But it doesn't feel realistic either if it gets too cheerful again too fast. Showing a subtle hope for the future would had been more fitting, if they want the ending to be a tiny tad more positive. But I've been posting about that problem - the lack of subtility - since High Isle now. Of course I can only speak for myself, but I am very capable of understanding dialogues also when they're not totally clichéd, overly obvious and in-your-face (in High Isle it was mostly the "flirting" - although it's actually more like "anti-flirting", unless flirting has the intention to make people run away nowadays - but I digress). And I think the average ESO player is just as capable. It also worked in the base game and earlier chapters, after all.

So, what else did I notice... I also didn't have the impression that the new dialogue choices really have a lasting impact. The direct, next reply you get upon them might differ depending on your choice - but, after that everything seems to continue just normally. You can literally throw a clear insult at somebody (and someone with a big ego, of all things), the reply will be accordingly, but from the next line on it's like you're friends again. Or another situation, where you've caught a (former) cultist - even if you've chosen to show him mercy and friendliness the npc accompanying you still threatens him. And you can't even tell him to leave him alone. Feels especially jarring after the cultist just thanked you for your mercy and declared something along the lines of he's been shown that there are friendly people, he'll try to build an earnest life from now on and repent for what he did in the past. And then the other npc immediately jabs at him again. Feels like the development right before that was totally in vain. If I'm allowed to make a choice in this game, I don't want it sabotaged in the end.

While we're at it: I'm not sure if it's a translation problem where they didn't get the right tone, but I've also had the impression that some lines didn't really fit the tone that was marked with the icon next to it. At least to me, offering someone to get drunk just after a close friend had died is not a "supportive, compassionate" reply. I can't remember the wording of the "negative" reaction right now, but even that one seemed more appropriate for the situation. The "postive" one sounded mocking, like "Yeah yeah, he's died - let's have a drink and you'll be fine again!" - Who would say that to a mourning friend who just learned another friend died?

Oh, and then there are a few situations where you just tell people that you just found a "soul reaper" (or whatever that new Wormcult device is called in English) without explaining to them what it is. There's no way they can know what you mean because you have just discovered that thing and returned, but they don't ask either. Although that problem could be solved easily but putting a short explanation into the dialogue ("I've found and destroyed a soul reaper, a new device the cultists invented,...").

In general, though, I think the prologue wasn't bad. The new reply choices seem a little experimental, but it's a start that can be built upon, especially taking more care about the replies having a more serious and longer impact on the npc's mood. Then it's a very welcome addition for me. I've always hoped to have more reply options to actually roleplay my character better.

Another thing I found positive is that the prologue dares to be a little more serious and impactful again. There is a character death - the last big one was years ago... Generally, the mood seems more serious and a little darker than the years before (base game and first few years were fine, but then it somehow became more and more trivial - and even the dead always returned, there were no real tragedies anymore, nothing that felt really dire - it might have been a nice fun story to walk through, but it wasn't creating any big emotions). For me, that's a step into the right direction.

Hrolthar

I quite enjoyed it. It was quite nice to go to some of the old places again that I haven't been to for years.
A thought I had made me laugh half way through though: ESO is now so old that they can use their own stories for nostalgia purposes without relying on older games like Morrowind etc... 😁

SkaiFaith

Syldras wrote: »

I played the prologue in the German translation yesterday evening.

The first negative thing that came to my attention was how repetative the dialogues were - once again. One situation seems especially absurd: You search for documents together with an npc, if you pick the document up it will open - and I think people interested in the story will read it - , and then you have to describe everything you just read to the npc through dialogue a second time once you found all of them, lenghtily, in detail?! It's probably nice for people who don't care to read lore books, so they still know what's going on, but for people who read them, it feels very redundant. It also made me wonder whether they expect the player not to read the lore books anyway, which would be a little sad.

Then of course, I also noticed the "mood swings". Something horrible happens, people are distraught - five minutes later they're fine again. I understand that they don't want the prologue to end pitch-black, with everybody just depressed and mourning. But it doesn't feel realistic either if it gets too cheerful again too fast. Showing a subtle hope for the future would had been more fitting, if they want the ending to be a tiny tad more positive. But I've been posting about that problem - the lack of subtility - since High Isle now. Of course I can only speak for myself, but I am very capable of understanding dialogues also when they're not totally clichéd, overly obvious and in-your-face (in High Isle it was mostly the "flirting" - although it's actually more like "anti-flirting", unless flirting has the intention to make people run away nowadays - but I digress). And I think the average ESO player is just as capable. It also worked in the base game and earlier chapters, after all.

So, what else did I notice... I also didn't have the impression that the new dialogue choices really have a lasting impact. The direct, next reply you get upon them might differ depending on your choice - but, after that everything seems to continue just normally. You can literally throw a clear insult at somebody (and someone with a big ego, of all things), the reply will be accordingly, but from the next line on it's like you're friends again. Or another situation, where you've caught a (former) cultist - even if you've chosen to show him mercy and friendliness the npc accompanying you still threatens him. And you can't even tell him to leave him alone. Feels especially jarring after the cultist just thanked you for your mercy and declared something along the lines of he's been shown that there are friendly people, he'll try to build an earnest life from now on and repent for what he did in the past. And then the other npc immediately jabs at him again. Feels like the development right before that was totally in vain. If I'm allowed to make a choice in this game, I don't want it sabotaged in the end.

While we're at it: I'm not sure if it's a translation problem where they didn't get the right tone, but I've also had the impression that some lines didn't really fit the tone that was marked with the icon next to it. At least to me, offering someone to get drunk just after a close friend had died is not a "supportive, compassionate" reply. I can't remember the wording of the "negative" reaction right now, but even that one seemed more appropriate for the situation. The "postive" one sounded mocking, like "Yeah yeah, he's died - let's have a drink and you'll be fine again!" - Who would say that to a mourning friend who just learned another friend died?

Oh, and then there are a few situations where you just tell people that you just found a "soul reaper" (or whatever that new Wormcult device is called in English) without explaining to them what it is. There's no way they can know what you mean because you have just discovered that thing and returned, but they don't ask either. Although that problem could be solved easily but putting a short explanation into the dialogue ("I've found and destroyed a soul reaper, a new device the cultists invented,...").

In general, though, I think the prologue wasn't bad. The new reply choices seem a little experimental, but it's a start that can be built upon, especially taking more care about the replies having a more serious and longer impact on the npc's mood. Then it's a very welcome addition for me. I've always hoped to have more reply options to actually roleplay my character better.

Another thing I found positive is that the prologue dares to be a little more serious and impactful again. There is a character death - the last big one was years ago... Generally, the mood seems more serious and a little darker than the years before (base game and first few years were fine, but then it somehow became more and more trivial - and even the dead always returned, there were no real tragedies anymore, nothing that felt really dire - it might have been a nice fun story to walk through, but it wasn't creating any big emotions). For me, that's a step into the right direction.

When I read that dialogue option about go drinking I was like - what is happening here?!
Agree with everything you said, and I will add that I think I only used the red option on the cultist but other than that the better options always felt the default ones, not the additional ones, which seems "a wasted opportunity".

GatheredMyst

Syldras wrote: »

In general, though, I think the prologue wasn't bad. The new reply choices seem a little experimental, but it's a start that can be built upon, especially taking more care about the replies having a more serious and longer impact on the npc's mood. Then it's a very welcome addition for me. I've always hoped to have more reply options to actually roleplay my character better.

A lot of good observations in your post, and I agree that the overall story is not necessarily bad.

If I were to carve out several elements of storytelling:

* Plot
* Pacing
* Dialogue
* Tone
* Etc...

... To me, it succeeds in the plot and pacing category, but has a serious issue with how it delivers its dialogue, and suffers from tonal whiplash.

I, for one, am very sensitive to tone, and have trouble looking beyond tonal inconsistencies. Assassin's Creed Odyssey is a good example of this, as i've also been playing it recently. The dialogue choices are all over the place when it comes to the topics they address, but they follow a similar tone, and the dialogue is at least written consistently. It feels like an editor went through it to make sure that things lined up. Contrast that to say... the recent raid tier storyline in FFXIV often screams "TAKE ME SERIOUSLY!" at you while at the same time being written in a terribly non-serious way. End result? I can't just sit back and enjoy it, because i'm constantly being pulled out of the narrative.

The same is true here. Things are all over the place, and it's hard to really glue into the story for me because of it.

And it feels so easily fixed, too. Maybe it's my own writing experience coming out here, (I've written a book and many short stories over my many, many years on this Earth x.x), but it feels like nobody's really... editing this? Giving it a sanity check?

As I said in the original post, think about what you want the end-goal to be. If I need the character to respond to an insult, but get back to status quo so that I don't have to record five different responses to something, then rein things in a little.

Elaborating on my original example: Character A is down in the mouth, and you're going to choose the option that yells at them to get their act together. The end point of this dialogue choice is them being OK and wanting to move on.

Instead of: "I AM SO MAD AT YOU! ... But really, i'm not! You made it so that i'm feeling so much better! Thank you!" to "Moving on to the topic at hand."

Do this: "You're right. I have a guild to look after now. There will be time to mourn later" to "Moving on to the topic at hand."

And while i'm at it, being we're playing a video game:

Instead of: *EXPLOSION HAPPENS!* "Oh no! So and so got caught in the explosion!"

Do this: *EXPLOSION HAPPENS!* ..... *Nobody says anything because we saw the explosion happen.*

The way the dialogue is structured is a writing choice. I just want them to see that, and as we all do as writers every day we're writing, grow from it.

Because they've got something here. They're just hamstringing themselves along the way.

SkaiFaith

GatheredMyst wrote: »

And while i'm at it, being we're playing a video game:

Instead of: *EXPLOSION HAPPENS!* "Oh no! So and so got caught in the explosion!"

Do this: *EXPLOSION HAPPENS!* ..... *Nobody says anything because we saw the explosion happen.*

The way the dialogue is structured is a writing choice. I just want them to see that, and as we all do as writers every day we're writing, grow from it.

Because they've got something here. They're just hamstringing themselves along the way.

Sadly I think in cases like this their choice in writing is right because of how "cinematics" work in ESO: it's a game without proper cinematics, everything happens while the player is totally free to do whatever. It often happened to me that I missed important scenes because they triggered while I was "opening bookshelves" or doing side activities looking around and not paying attention where I should have; in those cases I was always like "what? What happened? What did I miss?". While I understand the complaint I also get why being this way is helpful.
EDIT: the total absence of "real cinematics" is something I really miss in TES games...

Northwold

I do wonder to what extent some of these issues may not be coming out of how teams work together. If, for instance, dialogue is not being written at the same time as or in close cooperation with quest and environment design, or if it's not being refined to take account of revisions to the latter, that might cause issues like what we've been seeing for a while. That odd vibe of "welcome to our radio play".

tinythinker

***This reply contains an itsy bitsy spoiler from the Necrom chapter.***

I do think they write dialogue for people who don't want to read, as someone mentioned. The tone and pacing can sometimes feel off. But I do like the attempt to inject some dialogue choice.

If the NPCs remember our choices and act accordingly in the new Worm Cult content, that would be great!

Also, while this is less likely, I would hope to see some of that sprinkled in here and there in existing content.

Speaking of, an example I would hold up for dialogue interaction is from Necrom. You get a quest from an NPC who asks you to gather reagents to cure someone else's headache. But if your Alchemy skill line is high enough, you get an extra dialogue choice to

call the quest giver out on the fact that the ingredients are in fact for a highly lethal poison.

Taking that example, you could use other skill lines for optional dialogue. And if there are three extra options and you qualify for all three, you have more choices.

Then there is something similar, with reactions based on your past choices that pop up later. What if that Reachman from The Rift, the one trapped in the cage that you decide the fate of, has his wife added to the Reach zone at a little farmstead hut. If you made choice A while questing in The Rift (or didn't do that quest), she mentions how her husband went off to war and was last seen in The Rift. She asks for any news about him, giving you a some reply options (which may vary depending on whether you made Choice A or just didn't do the quest). If you choice B, he is there with her and his children and he thanks you again for letting him go. Both situations could have these new kind of responses seen in the Prologue quest mixed in.

This kind of remembering past could be sprinkled across old content as well as being added to new material.

Who knows, this may also help with consistency of character portrayals as well by going back and getting into prior material.

Syldras

Northwold wrote: »

I do wonder to what extent some of these issues may not be coming out of how teams work together.

Yes, I've been thinking about the same. Maybe the dialogue writers and voice actors don't get enough context? It's very much possible who wrote that dialogue repeating the lorebook content in detail wouldn't have written the dialogue like that if they knew that the player has to read that very book right beforehand. Or that "someone died - let's just have a drink!" thing: If the context given was "cheer up your adventurer friend", you might think he lost a duel or a bet and inviting him for a drink would make sense. If he's mourning a very recent death of a friend... not so much. Same for the "that person was struck by an explosion" situation - do the dialogue writers know that the player character sees that explosion with their own eyes, or do they assume it's a quest npc telling the player about what happened off screen? Makes a big difference.

iyx

First thing I noticed, besides already mentioned in this topic, was that Skordo had a personality swap for some reason.
He acts completely different than he did in Rivenspire, Wrothgar, and Southern Elsweyr storylines. More of a generic loud dumb orc side, and it feels like a different character somehow.
I wonder if some more old NPCs will go through such lazy and unnecessary personality changes.

Nydarisa

I am almost done with the prologue and have to agree.

While I appreciate that the dialog needs to be translated into multiple languages, the answer to that should not be to create something that reads like it is intended for a pre-teen. There are ways to be accessible that do not amount to writing at a 5th grade level.

Similarly, i just sent a ticket in about the reaction emoticons, which are similarly cartoonish and do not fit in either style or color in the ESO universe. It is down right jarring.

Very disappointing when the basic story itself has such great potential

Syldras

I don't think it's a language issue. The entertainment industry uses specialized companies for translation/localisation after all, which should be able to translate English texts far beyond beginner level. It's their job.

And what makes it even funnier is that I have the impression that often enough the German translation is more formal than the English original (if I make a comparison with the dialogue lines listed at UESP). Although that could stem from different cultural expectations how people in a more or less medieval story are supposed to speak, maybe.

AScarlato

I thought Gabrielle and Vanus were good this time. They got far less lines and didn’t ramble too long and I felt they spoken more naturally and got to the point.

I was almost disappointed as I enjoy listening to them more than Skordo who talked far more - a third of which felt unnecessary and/or repetitive.

I felt the new dialogue system was a bit awkward. It felt a bit…. Forced? I actually think some of the options that weren’t in the new system made more sense but I did pick the new system options to see how it played out.

colossalvoids

Apart from writing being weaker and weaker each year the new "system" feels so off it pains me they can't make a compelling choices even in such a narrow and basic short story. I get there's probably inexperienced writers at hand and they had no experience with RPGs and choices to date but man, just play one even for a reference.

majulook

Anyone know if the new response choices to the NPC's in the prologue is it going to be part 2025 Content Pass and / or future story lines or was it a one off / test to see if players like it??

Cooperharley

majulook wrote: »

Anyone know if the new response choices to the NPC's in the prologue is it going to be part 2025 Content Pass and / or future story lines or was it a one off / test to see if players like it??

Believe dialogue choices are being added moving forward like this (BOO YAH BABY), but not retroactively due to the massive undertaking that would be

Cooperharley

colossalvoids wrote: »

Apart from writing being weaker and weaker each year the new "system" feels so off it pains me they can't make a compelling choices even in such a narrow and basic short story. I get there's probably inexperienced writers at hand and they had no experience with RPGs and choices to date but man, just play one even for a reference.

Hey at least it's something. Seems with subclasses and these dialogue choices were moving closer and closer to RPG gameplay, which im a fan of personally. Step in the right direction, this is the first iteration.

AScarlato

Cooperharley wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Apart from writing being weaker and weaker each year the new "system" feels so off it pains me they can't make a compelling choices even in such a narrow and basic short story. I get there's probably inexperienced writers at hand and they had no experience with RPGs and choices to date but man, just play one even for a reference.

Hey at least it's something. Seems with subclasses and these dialogue choices were moving closer and closer to RPG gameplay, which im a fan of personally. Step in the right direction, this is the first iteration.

I do like that they are trying it out. While it wasn't great after coming from single-player RPGs like BG3, it was a nice effort to kick it off.

I just felt some of the options came out of nowhere and didn't seem to flow or make too much sense for the scene.

Juomuuri

Honestly, the dialogue in the prologue quest was so cringeworthy that it broke my immersion. If the "teaser" of what's to come in the season pass is this bad, I don't think I want to spend my money on it. Like yeah, the plot *seemed* interesting, but how it was executed is meh and bleh.

Also, the option to offer drinks to the mourning character was absolutely tone deaf. I think all of the "roleplay" options were things my character would not say, just overall really bad.

Snamyap

Maybe they intentionally try to keep a happy "Disney" vibe to the game because of feedback from players. Over the years I've seen many comments here about how swamps or tundra's are depressing, how vampires are ugly, etc, etc... It seems quite a few players don't want a heavy atmosphere in this game. And that's quite a difficult thing when the actual lore for the Elder Scrolls is pretty harsh and brutal. We're "literally" capturing souls on a daily basis after all.
I would like a more serious tone, but I'm probably part of a minority here.

SilverBride

It's hard to have a heavy atmosphere with all the bright flashy mounts and recalls and costumes with big colorful flowers on our backs, etc..

Syldras

Juomuuri wrote: »

I think all of the "roleplay" options were things my character would not say, just overall really bad.

Yes, I've also realized that I chose the neutral reply most, which I found surprising, because in the past I often found those, well, rather bland. But truly, in this prologue neither the "positive" nor the "negative" ones were close to the reply I had in mind for my character when reading the dialogue, they were usually even worse than the neutral one. I see there will never be enough different replies for every character or player type (especially if one has a very solid idea about one's character because one's playing them for a longer time already), but I still found it surprising that the choices in the prologue felt absolutely off most of the time. Still trying to figure out what exactly makes me feel like that about them, but something just felt not right.

colossalvoids

Snamyap wrote: »

Maybe they intentionally try to keep a happy "Disney" vibe to the game because of feedback from players. Over the years I've seen many comments here about how swamps or tundra's are depressing, how vampires are ugly, etc, etc... It seems quite a few players don't want a heavy atmosphere in this game. And that's quite a difficult thing when the actual lore for the Elder Scrolls is pretty harsh and brutal. We're "literally" capturing souls on a daily basis after all.
I would like a more serious tone, but I'm probably part of a minority here.

Atmosphere wise I'd agree that's a response to the community's feedback most probably. Was really eye opening reading about depressive Coldharbour screen and such, even such minor things can throw people off nowadays to my surprise. But that's a media as a money extractor, so what masses would ask for that would be delivered in the very end.

Chufu

Apart from my general irritation on how the lines of the characters were delivered and the new "emotion" options in the dialogues... it still bothers me quite a bit that at the same time you can have other quests open that don't correlate at all with this prologue.

Here is the example:

You find Prince Azah and he tells you to look for Guildmaster Merric... wait a minute, Guildmaster Merric? But I just came to Daggerfall and the Warrior's Guild contacted me to speak with "Sieht-alle-Farben" (DE, I believe it's "sees-all-colours" in EN?) who is the current guildmaster. So I speak to her and she tells me to speak outside with Merric + the other lady as they are on a quest.... AHA, so Merric is NOT LOST IS HE??!! And he's not a guildmaster either...

Now I have played the Warrior's guild quest with another char, so I kinda now the story, but still it HURTS. How must a new player feel?

I also started with my arcanist (I haven't quested much with him) the main quest, so spoke to the prophet and you start the quest in the little cave close to Daggerfall... we all know it by heart now... and you get to know how the five companions came together etc. etc. He also explains this was the start of the Melting between Nirn + Coldharbour AND SO ON.

Now when you speak to Skordo in the follow up quest in Malabal Tor after you spoke initially with Prince Azah (yes, you're still on the way to find Merric!) he tells you that he heard this great tale of the heros who killed Mannimarco and saved Nirn, etc.

If I would not know it better, this would actually have been a HUGE spoiler for me now if I would be a new player. Now in my case, I know the main story already, but as this is another character that has the main story line still active, THIS HURTS AS WELL.

I'm pretty sure, that those things should definitely not happen, especially not when in the ESO Stream the developers were saying how much they invite new players and returners (back) to the game, and then nothing really fits together questwise.

Syldras

Chufu wrote: »

Apart from my general irritation on how the lines of the characters were delivered and the new "emotion" options in the dialogues... it still bothers me quite a bit that at the same time you can have other quests open that don't correlate at all with this prologue.

Here is the example:

You find Prince Azah and he tells you to look for Guildmaster Merric... wait a minute, Guildmaster Merric? But I just came to Daggerfall and the Warrior's Guild contacted me to speak with "Sieht-alle-Farben" (DE, I believe it's "sees-all-colours" in EN?) who is the current guildmaster. So I speak to her and she tells me to speak outside with Merric + the other lady as they are on a quest.... AHA, so Merric is NOT LOST IS HE??!! And he's not a guildmaster either...

Now I have played the Warrior's guild quest with another char, so I kinda now the story, but still it HURTS. How must a new player feel?

I also started with my arcanist (I haven't quested much with him) the main quest, so spoke to the prophet and you start the quest in the little cave close to Daggerfall... we all know it by heart now... and you get to know how the five companions came together etc. etc. He also explains this was the start of the Melting between Nirn + Coldharbour AND SO ON.

Now when you speak to Skordo in the follow up quest in Malabal Tor after you spoke initially with Prince Azah (yes, you're still on the way to find Merric!) he tells you that he heard this great tale of the heros who killed Mannimarco and saved Nirn, etc.

If I would not know it better, this would actually have been a HUGE spoiler for me now if I would be a new player. Now in my case, I know the main story already, but as this is another character that has the main story line still active, THIS HURTS AS WELL.

I'm pretty sure, that those things should definitely not happen, especially not when in the ESO Stream the developers were saying how much they invite new players and returners (back) to the game, and then nothing really fits together questwise.

Yeah, there's a whole thread about this:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676039/so-now-we-are-getting-content-that-needs-to-be-done-in-order-or-other-quests-are-spoiled

Snamyap wrote: »

Maybe they intentionally try to keep a happy "Disney" vibe to the game because of feedback from players. Over the years I've seen many comments here about how swamps or tundra's are depressing, how vampires are ugly, etc, etc... It seems quite a few players don't want a heavy atmosphere in this game.

I think the criticism about swamps and tundra landscapes was more that they appeared boring, not neccessarily that people want everything to be flashy and colorful all the time? And with vampirism it seems to be the visible veins that people find ugly, which clashes with their idea of their vampire being more like a beautiful, charming, seductive creature, like they are in some vampire stories (not neccessarily Nosferatu but think of Carmilla, for example). I don't think Disneyfication is the fitting reply to that, and I'm not sure whether people who criticized these things actually want that.

colossalvoids wrote: »

Was really eye opening reading about depressive Coldharbour screen and such, even such minor things can throw people off nowadays to my surprise.

Yes, I found that surprising, too. I actually like that background, and found some of the more colorful ones stressful for my eyes. The only thing that bothers me a little with it is that it doesn't make sense if the character has left that place long ago. I'd rather like to let the background show the character's current location. The best solution to react on people's different tastes would probably be to let us choose our background from a selection (I find it almost a little strange that they didn't give us that option yet, technically it can't be difficult).