Vengeance is over but.....

StihlReign

Grey Host is a cesspool of bad code, poor combat design elements, and patchwork environmental landscaping on a dead server.

reazea

blktauna wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

And we DO know that the last two days of the vengeance campaign didn't even have a queue during prime time on the weekend. People were already bored with it after less than a week.

Having a queue is a con not a plus. TBH a full queue constantly is a deterrent, not a draw.

Every time I was in there were enough fights to go around and enough action to go round. Didn't notice boredom.

Saying you're not a PvP main without saying "I'm not a PvP main".

Vengeance was just a zerg fest. It was lame in every way. No build diversity. No multiple sieges. No skill gap what so ever. Whichever zerg was bigger won the fight and took the keep. It was the worst PvP I've ever played and everyone in my PvP guild agreed. None of us will stick around for any version of vengeance mode.

LOL tell me you crutch on sets without saying it.
I'm in PVP on 3 toon or more on both sides nearly every day. Keep your elitist nonsense to yoursself. Not everyone likes the same thing. I'm stoked for a different test to see what happens.

"...3 toon or more on both sides...."? Interesting. I see three factions when I play in Cyrodiil.

There is nothing elitist about wanting ZOS to fix the PvP we already have rather than creating a whole new system then later making the new dumbed down system the only option.

Looks like the PvE'rs are going to get their way here pretty soon with Cyrodiil.

BardokRedSnow

anadandy wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

anadandy wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

And to reiterate I see majority strangers here celebrating vengeance and the same goes for gh zone chat. Vet players of pvp dont want this, and the pvers who do will still mostly play pve.

All this will do is kill pvp in the long run for everyone.

You know every PVP player in the game? You know every forum poster by name? Regardless, as said above, it's irrelevant.

I'm not some PVP legend but I played PVP extensively in the past, my first campaign was Haderus. I participated in AW threads when GH was Vivec and Shor was still around. I stopped playing regularly around 5 years ago, like many players, because Cyrodiil became something that wasn't enjoyable anymore. But I suppose because you don't see me in the Grey Host Power Point presentation, my opinion doesn't count. Nonsense.

This post just made my point for me.

Its exactly as I said, people that dont and wont stick around want Vengeance. Pvp regulars do not. And yes I am familiar with the majority of regulars in the main pvp servers like Xylena above, been around since beta. Even in the old days when pvp was packed constantly, the regulars were a small tight knit community and those are the people that kept the main pvp server alive. And if people here dont have the same name as they do in game they're free to make themselves known if they want to advocate for Vengeance, but there's not many that will.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

All this will do is kill pvp in the long run for everyone.

Can't kill what's already dead.

Cute but greyhost is far from dead. Ravenwatch and Blackreach are dead, those are the people begging for Vengeance.

How did this make your point for you? Because Cyrodiil became a laggy crapfest and I left? So that proves no one will stick around for Vengeance because YOU think it's bad?

Man, the mental gymnastics going on for people who are so afraid of bringing new players into PVP, players who might actually stick around, and get better and challenge their narrative of being PVP Gods in the One True Campaign. It's astonishing.

Please, enjoy your ever shrinking population of "people you know" on Grey Host.

Will do.

We got a ton of new players when they temporarily fixed lag, new and old. Even had articles written about it because it was such big news. It goes to show people just want less lag, and more fights. We agree on that.

You do not however need to nuke sets and skills to achieve this, is the entire point.

The point you proved was that people who are not long time players of grey host/the main server and just assume its always laggy and always bad no matter what make up the bulk of people acting as though vengeance is the only answer. You weren't even around for when they did fix lag by maintaining and replacing their servers. Thats why I'm saying most here don't know what they are talking about. No malice or salt, its just the truth.

reazea

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

anadandy wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

anadandy wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

And to reiterate I see majority strangers here celebrating vengeance and the same goes for gh zone chat. Vet players of pvp dont want this, and the pvers who do will still mostly play pve.

All this will do is kill pvp in the long run for everyone.

You know every PVP player in the game? You know every forum poster by name? Regardless, as said above, it's irrelevant.

I'm not some PVP legend but I played PVP extensively in the past, my first campaign was Haderus. I participated in AW threads when GH was Vivec and Shor was still around. I stopped playing regularly around 5 years ago, like many players, because Cyrodiil became something that wasn't enjoyable anymore. But I suppose because you don't see me in the Grey Host Power Point presentation, my opinion doesn't count. Nonsense.

This post just made my point for me.

Its exactly as I said, people that dont and wont stick around want Vengeance. Pvp regulars do not. And yes I am familiar with the majority of regulars in the main pvp servers like Xylena above, been around since beta. Even in the old days when pvp was packed constantly, the regulars were a small tight knit community and those are the people that kept the main pvp server alive. And if people here dont have the same name as they do in game they're free to make themselves known if they want to advocate for Vengeance, but there's not many that will.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

All this will do is kill pvp in the long run for everyone.

Can't kill what's already dead.

Cute but greyhost is far from dead. Ravenwatch and Blackreach are dead, those are the people begging for Vengeance.

How did this make your point for you? Because Cyrodiil became a laggy crapfest and I left? So that proves no one will stick around for Vengeance because YOU think it's bad?

Man, the mental gymnastics going on for people who are so afraid of bringing new players into PVP, players who might actually stick around, and get better and challenge their narrative of being PVP Gods in the One True Campaign. It's astonishing.

Please, enjoy your ever shrinking population of "people you know" on Grey Host.

Will do.

We got a ton of new players when they temporarily fixed lag, new and old. Even had articles written about it because it was such big news. It goes to show people just want less lag, and more fights. We agree on that.

You do not however need to nuke sets and skills to achieve this, is the entire point.

The point you proved was that people who are not long time players of grey host/the main server and just assume its always laggy and always bad no matter what make up the bulk of people acting as though vengeance is the only answer. You weren't even around for when they did fix lag by maintaining and replacing their servers. Thats why I'm saying most here don't know what they are talking about. No malice or salt, its just the truth.

This^

Performance was outstanding, near perfect, right after they replaced their servers. After a few months though ZOS added a bunch of cosmetic stuff and scribing and ToT and on and on with stuff and the poor performance came back with a vengeance. (pun intended)

BardokRedSnow

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

And yes I am familiar with the majority of regulars in the main pvp servers like Xylena above, been around since beta.

I was very pessimistic going into Vengeance and did not expect much, but it was surprisingly solid and shows a lot of promise. Just having Meatbags to break up open field zergs would go a long way, as would having more skill lines, and dealing with a couple pain points like the infinite NB sustain and zerger DK chain spam. As is, smaller fights were fun, dueling was a lot more fun than live to me, felt more like a fighting game.

All I can say is it is never bad having more servers. If they make a separate campaign for this, I have no complaints.

blktauna

LOL I love how you aren't real if you aren't on GH. Honestly people, primary school is long behind us.

Separate skills for separate areas make balancing easier. I'd love PVP only skills that are wholly separate from PVE. I love the no crosshealing for more than 3. There's a lot of potential that will be interesting to see how it pans out.

The smaller amount of calcs needed per area the better. Strip down the exploding BS and the crossheals and the pulls and we will have a much better environment with less lag

blktauna

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

And yes I am familiar with the majority of regulars in the main pvp servers like Xylena above, been around since beta.

I was very pessimistic going into Vengeance and did not expect much, but it was surprisingly solid and shows a lot of promise. Just having Meatbags to break up open field zergs would go a long way, as would having more skill lines, and dealing with a couple pain points like the infinite NB sustain and zerger DK chain spam. As is, smaller fights were fun, dueling was a lot more fun than live to me, felt more like a fighting game.

All I can say is it is never bad having more servers. If they make a separate campaign for this, I have no complaints.

^^^^ This. Then those who want one can go there and those who like the other can go there.

BardokRedSnow

Im saying that people who aren't in greyhost ain't "real" simply because greyhost rn is the only server with any actual pvp. Go in ravenwatch or blackreach for any amount of time, you'll quickly see what I mean. The no locked faction thing is very bad for the life of any server.

xylena_lazarow

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Im saying that people who aren't in greyhost ain't "real" simply because greyhost rn is the only server with any actual pvp.

18 hours of trading off single faction empty map PvDoor, followed by 6 hours of NA prime time comp groups stomping randoms at a laggy circle keep mess. Good waiting room for the actual PvP in 8v8 solo BGs.

supabicboi

many players commenting here do seem to be quite oblivious to what GH is like.Either they haven't been around Cyro in a while, lack perspective, , or straight up think they know how to pvp, without actually understanding what it takes.

This isn't a gatekeeping comment, just my two cents from 8 years of PvP experience. I simply trace back my pvp 'career'. out of the 8 years ish ive been on, I thought I knew my stuff after the 4-5 years mark, sounds fair right? long enough to not be considered as an amateur. Tt was a pivotal moment when i got to know and play with other players that were deep into pvp that I realized Ive only scratched the surface. It was only the recent 2-3 years, the intricacies of PvP, where everything that happens on the field, the mechanics, the player to player interactions, the 'soft skills' - animation cancelling, bunny hopping, etc (things that some poeple might regard as 'exploits' lol) became a tool in the arsenal rather than an 'exploit' or a cheap trick. Not gonna list out all the things as its impossible, its just built in intrinsically in my gameplay now. Point is. I thought I knew, how wrong I was to find out just how big the iceberg is. its not about the volume of information untouched, its simply a different way to approach, a dif perspective. Ask yourselves if ignorance is playing tricks on you.

its weird how ravenwatch and blackreach still reaches into the comments as they are highly irrelevant now, those that stay in those camps simply dont have a solution to staying in GH, they got beat up, sulked,and resorted to go to their haven of pvdoor. there are literal guilds that would take over the map with no opposition, thinking they acheived something. its not insulting to call them pvdoorers.

blktauna

Crutchers be crutching. Whatever guys. You love the lagfest with your cheese, I prefer actual fights. Its all good. Enjoy your GH and faew well there.

supabicboi

blktauna wrote: »

Crutchers be crutching. Whatever guys. You love the lagfest with your cheese, I prefer actual fights. Its all good. Enjoy your GH and faew well there.

the actual fights are here, they exist in front of our very eyes, you just dont wanna participate for whatever ur reasons maybe. solo and group, I play both, and both are good lol.

cheese is avoidable though I agree its getting annoying, and lag isnt all too bad for real. I play from an area where ping is never below 230-250, lag isnt an issue for me lol, why is it for u or others. your reasons of not enjoying GH seems to stem from some other issue, perhaps just a difference in expectation.

BardokRedSnow

Thank you, another pvp vet btw, that knows what they are talking about

aetherix8

Every MYM, PvP players tell those “friendly questers” / PvE players that the moment they click accept to enter Cyro, they become PvP players and fair game. So it’s ok to tell PvEers that they are PvP now and farm them without mercy, but when these players have an insight about PvP they don’t count anymore? What the heck?

PvEers of today are the PvPers of tomorrow, at least some of them. Their perspective matters too and can contribute to the discussion. What is that with “now PvEers decide the future of PvP”? None of us decides nothing, all is up to ZOS and they might or not follow any feedback they get either from those self-proclaimed PvP gods or from players who have just started their PvP adventure or both.

Discrediting ppl because they have a different opinion, one that GH mains find a threat to their mode, isn’t constructive at all. Forcing everyone to the proc hell of nowadays isn’t going to work either - some of us simply refuse to play it at all so we end up with less players overall. If only vet’s PoV is valid how we are supposed to achieve accessibility for new players and grow the population? This is utterly ridiculous to tell everyone to shut up if they don’t play on GH every day since at least 5 years.

Edit spelling

supabicboi

aetherix8 wrote: »

Every MYM, PvP players tell those “friendly questers” / PvE players that the moment they click accept to enter Cyro, they become PvP players and fair game. So it’s ok to tell PvEers that they are PvP now and farm them without mercy, but when these players have an insight about PvP they don’t count anymore? What the heck?

PvEers of today are the PvPers of tomorrow, at least some of them. Their perspective matters too and can contribute to the discussion. What is that with “now PvEers decide the future of PvP”? None of us decides nothing, all is up to ZOS and they might or not follow any feedback they get either from those self-proclaimed PvP gods or from players who have just started their PvP adventure or both.

Discrediting ppl because they have a different opinion, one that GH mains find a threat to their mode, isn’t constructive at all. Forcing everyone to the proc hell of nowadays isn’t going to work either - some of us simply refuse to play it at all so we end up with less players overall. If only vet’s PoV is valid how we are supposed to achieve accessibility for new players and grow the population? This is utterly ridiculous to tell everyone to shut up if they don’t play on GH every day since at least 5 years.

Edit spelling

I agree with you, pvers are the pvpers of tomorrow, therefore the pvp environment needs to be compatible to both crowds, sustain the old, and nurture the new. I dont speak just as a min/max pvper, I speak trying to be holistic, taking into account of all I know, from the perspective of pvp newbies, someone I used to be, to the pvp sweat, someone i am now.

it is not discrediting to disagree with an opinion that lacks perspective, players lacking the idea of the bigger picture and dont fully understand the implications of what they are asking for.

aetherix8

@supabicboi
I see your point about experienced players being able to make more informed comments, and I find it legit. At the same time, I think that new player’s advantage is the fresh perspective - they might notice smth that escapes the regulars. Sure they might be asking for things without understanding the implications (asking for Vengeance without any tweaks whatsoever), and it’s up to veterans to explain why it won’t work. But to dismiss all who don’t PvP hardcore every day is simply wrong, and that’s what some people are posting.

ForumBully

I'm not a PvEr, just an exPvPer and exPlayer. For well over a year I haven't had anything to do with ESO. I'm very sad that I missed this "experiment" because it sounds like exactly what would have kept me around in this game but since I wasn't playing I wasn't paying attention to the news about it.
I left because the game was stale...like stale beyond the point of even being able to mold because it was just too stale. Now that I've poked my head back into the forum I can see that the normal gameplay hasn't really changed.
If this mode ever becomes a full time thing, with some tweaks...like all the fun skills that had to go away in the never ending quest to balance ridiculous sets, I would definitely come back regularly.

Unfadingsilence

ForumBully wrote: »

I'm not a PvEr, just an exPvPer and exPlayer. For well over a year I haven't had anything to do with ESO. I'm very sad that I missed this "experiment" because it sounds like exactly what would have kept me around in this game but since I wasn't playing I wasn't paying attention to the news about it.
I left because the game was stale...like stale beyond the point of even being able to mold because it was just too stale. Now that I've poked my head back into the forum I can see that the normal gameplay hasn't really changed.
If this mode ever becomes a full time thing, with some tweaks...like all the fun skills that had to go away in the never ending quest to balance ridiculous sets, I would definitely come back regularly.

With the announcement of multiclass im not sure it would be fun coming back fighting a nightblade sorc or necro dk... 3000+ other options you can come up with on top of scribing skills

ForumBully

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I'm not a PvEr, just an exPvPer and exPlayer. For well over a year I haven't had anything to do with ESO. I'm very sad that I missed this "experiment" because it sounds like exactly what would have kept me around in this game but since I wasn't playing I wasn't paying attention to the news about it.
I left because the game was stale...like stale beyond the point of even being able to mold because it was just too stale. Now that I've poked my head back into the forum I can see that the normal gameplay hasn't really changed.
If this mode ever becomes a full time thing, with some tweaks...like all the fun skills that had to go away in the never ending quest to balance ridiculous sets, I would definitely come back regularly.

With the announcement of multiclass im not sure it would be fun coming back fighting a nightblade sorc or necro dk... 3000+ other options you can come up with on top of scribing skills

I'm not sure, it might be in a Vengeance-like environment. In normal Cyrodiil, that sounds like an absolute nightmare. My knowledge of the classes and sets stopped long ago and even I can think of some absolutely broken crap with subclasses.

blktauna

supabicboi wrote: »

I play from an area where ping is never below 230-250, lag isnt an issue for me lol, why is it for u or others. your reasons of not enjoying GH seems to stem from some other issue, perhaps just a difference in expectation.

My ping has been jumping from 180 to 000+ and when the ball groups are close it redlines and stays there.
Generally I get lagged to death, skills simply stop happening or I get dropped from the server. Tedious and frustrating.

That was the last straw for GH.

I had none of that on Vengence in primetime with way more pop and more fun fights. Can't imagine why I would enjoy that more.