Vengeance is over but.....

Unfadingsilence

Now that the Vengeance campaign has concluded, Cyrodiil PvP in Elder Scrolls Online has returned to "normal"—meaning persistent combat lock, frequent crashes (which were absent during the test), and the return of proc-set ball groups. Despite the Vengeance campaign handling massive 300 vs. 300 vs. 300 battles smoothly, we’re now experiencing ability delays and freezes even in small 10 vs. 20 skirmishes at outposts.

That said, real PvP is back—so thanks for the test. Also, the sky has returned to normal.

On a side note, it seems many have forgotten you can't stack on flags… which means my bomber is having a field day!

SpiritKitten

I had the opposite experience. Crashes, rubberbanding, stuck running in place, loading screens, skills unable to fire, skill delays, stuck in combat, the works...much worse for most of these issues than in regular Cyro. The only thing better was the stuck in combat happened way less often and was easier to resolve.

As for ball groups, just go somewhere else if they are annoying you. That's what I do and so almost never experience them. They show up, I leave the area.

Never more than six on a flag and hold block!

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom

Within 5 minutes I could not Break Free. I want to breaaaak freeeee!

BardokRedSnow

Actually I suffered not a single piece of lag last night, not even from ballgroups, and honestly the pvp was really good. Zos really just needs to maintain their servers more regularly, do full resets of campaign servers more often and remind players they just gotta set their home campaign again
Oh and get rid of heal stacking….

That said I’ll take og laggy stuck in combat ballgroups Cyrodiil any day over that pver Zerg fest that was Vengeance. People who won’t and don’t stick around for PvP were the only ones that enjoyed it, almost no PvP veteran last night was upset that it was gone…. Only the players that Zerg empty keeps in Blackreach were trying to convince everyone else to miss Vengeance.

colossalvoids

It was boring and not even started to be baked (cause that's test and not a mode, obviously) but the difference in play without issues and being back to all of them at once kind of brings it into perspective

Xarc

"normal pvp" you mean OP sorcs dominating everybody ?

Juzz

Xarc wrote: »

"normal pvp" you mean OP sorcs dominating everybody ?

Aye, normal pvp, where ye just have a skill issue to crack «op sorcs» i presume

There’s always someone demanding nerfs cuz he doesn’t know how to deal with the challenges, i just wonder why no nerf demands on gravitation so far 😁

El_Borracho

Yep, Grey Host is back to staggered gameplay, the inability to swap bars, and the joy of skills not firing. All because there were 20-40 players at one keep. "Oh, you wanted to heal? Not today!"

Xarc

Juzz wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

"normal pvp" you mean OP sorcs dominating everybody ?

Aye, normal pvp, where ye just have a skill issue to crack «op sorcs» i presume

There’s always someone demanding nerfs cuz he doesn’t how to deal with the challenges, i just wonder why no nerf demands on gravitation so far 😁

ok man, nobody is complaining about sorcs ofc, i'm alone.
Sorcerers need adjustment (PVP)
Sorcerer disease spreading and other problems Bookmark
pvp - SORCERER META

It's not about not having the level or whatever, sorcs are slightly above the other classes, you have to be naive, blind or in denial not to admit it

but anyway, that's not the subject of this thread

reazea

Lag post "test" is way worse than prior to the vengeance mode thing. Why?

said no one ever

I had issues at keeps with too much going on in think my machine couldn't keep up with the constant visuals on my Rx 460 4 gb card or my ryzen Vegas 11 graphics on the other machine I think tops out at 2 gigs ram from the system memory pool of 32gb.

Either case I think normal cyro plays better for me as less burden on me and more in the servers

NoSoup

Grey Host was Deeeeaaaadddd last night at AU prime time 08:00 UTC. There was all of about 5 AD players on, it was so scarce I was able to solo take a keep. During Vengence most nights at that time were double barred.

SpiritofESO

Xarc wrote: »

"normal pvp" you mean OP sorcs dominating everybody ?

I hear you loud and clear!

KiltMaster

Very happy regular Cyro is back

Lags

no crashes? Idk what vengeance campaign you were playing. And you must have not been reading the forums during the test but crashing was deff an issue.

Juzz

Xarc wrote: »

Juzz wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

"normal pvp" you mean OP sorcs dominating everybody ?

Aye, normal pvp, where ye just have a skill issue to crack «op sorcs» i presume

There’s always someone demanding nerfs cuz he doesn’t how to deal with the challenges, i just wonder why no nerf demands on gravitation so far 😁

ok man, nobody is complaining about sorcs ofc, i'm alone.
Sorcerers need adjustment (PVP)
Sorcerer disease spreading and other problems Bookmark
pvp - SORCERER META

It's not about not having the level or whatever, sorcs are slightly above the other classes, you have to be naive, blind or in denial not to admit it

but anyway, that's not the subject of this thread

playin' a bow/bow warden allows to feel all the stuff actually, yet still it's doable, tough yet doable to track and strike at the right time, even so called immortal tanks ain't so immortal - that's my point and experience with personal artificial difficulty set with no meta class setup.
so, imo it's a matter of an adaptation via wide skill selection to the challenge

darvaria

They should keep Vengeance just like it was. Instead, they have 3 empty campaigns and GH.

NOT saying GH should be changed but WHY not Vengeance? Vengeance with the stat buff is the same as no CP. Stat buff under 50 players and it might even offer a campaign that actually has players for PVP for under 50. BR is only for special interest groups that want to run emp and get achievements they can' get at GH.

It was nice to see players actually grouping up and able to play without having to avoid ball groups and staying away from any group to avoid bombers. Just not having VD was worth it.

Such a difference in play. So much, I have decided to take a break from GH. Quite a few players are taking breaks rn which explains why GH is dying off in prime time. Since the other campaigns are basically always 1/1/1 unless some guild jumps on BR to PV Door the map, there really isn't another option.

MJallday

xbox eu had 80x80x80 ish last night on allessia... 2 ball groups and the FPS just droppped for everyone.

sooner they nerf RoA , x heals and BG's, the better in my mind

Elvenheart

An off topic question, but I’ve been wondering if it’s possible to capture an Elder Scroll solo in a mostly empty campaign. I just want to be able to buy the replica scroll furnishing. Are there too many npc guards?

Arrow312

Elvenheart wrote: »

An off topic question, but I’ve been wondering if it’s possible to capture an Elder Scroll solo in a mostly empty campaign. I just want to be able to buy the replica scroll furnishing. Are there too many npc guards?

You need e.g. Arrius and KC to open the gate at Kingscrest. After this you have to deal with the guards around Gate and temple.

darvaria

To buy the replica scroll furnishing (the decoy) you must have the title of grand overlord (5 star)on at least one character. It doesn't matter which faction. And it has nothing to do with picking up an actual scroll.

As for picking one up, you would have to have 2 of the tri keeps down. Either Glade, arrius, fare and One of the inner keeps to open the gate. I recently picked up a scroll with only one other player around me but on a warden tank/healer and ran it out. So I know I popped immovable and shield wall but there were no enemy faction players around. So with a tanky build, I think you escape the guards. The inner guards don't chase.

As for "hiding" back there, I'm pretty sure it still remains that if you pick up a scroll with gates up, you take like 1M damage or something. Yeas ago I was in a small group that tried this and all basically exploded. I saw groups try this in early days but not much now. I did see it back a few months and it was 3 players that said died almost instantly. I'm pretty sure this mechanism is still in place? If groups don't get it out before one of the gates closes, they can't get out (trying to remember exactly where they "explode" but basically no one tries now days if one of keeps is reacquired and gate closes)

For Hammer achievement you much pick up hammer and kill at least one player.

Throne is for being empress/emperor.

CatoUnchained

KiltMaster wrote: »

Very happy regular Cyro is back

Same. I hated vengeance mode. And my biggest fear is that it wasn't just a test.

Markytous

darvaria wrote: »

They should keep Vengeance just like it was. Instead, they have 3 empty campaigns and GH.

NOT saying GH should be changed but WHY not Vengeance? Vengeance with the stat buff is the same as no CP. Stat buff under 50 players and it might even offer a campaign that actually has players for PVP for under 50. BR is only for special interest groups that want to run emp and get achievements they can' get at GH.

It was nice to see players actually grouping up and able to play without having to avoid ball groups and staying away from any group to avoid bombers. Just not having VD was worth it.

Such a difference in play. So much, I have decided to take a break from GH. Quite a few players are taking breaks rn which explains why GH is dying off in prime time. Since the other campaigns are basically always 1/1/1 unless some guild jumps on BR to PV Door the map, there really isn't another option.

Vengeance reminded me what drew me to Cyrodiil PVP to begin with. Ball groups cruising around ripping away any player agency from non-participants both on their faction and obviously their victims, blocktanks trivializing all efforts because mitigation and healing is ridiculous, bombs making "1vX" culture look like amateur hour just by pressing a few buttons as a vamp to set their HP low and putting on a few sets? Rallying Cry + (1 of 4 other viable PVP sets) + FotM mythic being what they call "build diversity"? They can keep Grey Host. I'm not going back.

Divine1976

darvaria wrote: »

Such a difference in play. So much, I have decided to take a break from GH. Quite a few players are taking breaks rn which explains why GH is dying off in prime time. Since the other campaigns are basically always 1/1/1 unless some guild jumps on BR to PV Door the map, there really isn't another option.

Same for me, I enjoyed Vengeance far more than I expected to and loved the massive fights with no lag.

Logged on to Grey host EU day after and it felt dead. Only action seemed to be a unkillable ball group spamming ROA or small groups of tower trolls, who run away to the tower unless you are on your own. Not fun so I just logged off again

People talk about dull gameplay. Well that's as dull as it gets to me

CatoUnchained

Markytous wrote: »

darvaria wrote: »

They should keep Vengeance just like it was. Instead, they have 3 empty campaigns and GH.

NOT saying GH should be changed but WHY not Vengeance? Vengeance with the stat buff is the same as no CP. Stat buff under 50 players and it might even offer a campaign that actually has players for PVP for under 50. BR is only for special interest groups that want to run emp and get achievements they can' get at GH.

It was nice to see players actually grouping up and able to play without having to avoid ball groups and staying away from any group to avoid bombers. Just not having VD was worth it.

Such a difference in play. So much, I have decided to take a break from GH. Quite a few players are taking breaks rn which explains why GH is dying off in prime time. Since the other campaigns are basically always 1/1/1 unless some guild jumps on BR to PV Door the map, there really isn't another option.

Vengeance reminded me what drew me to Cyrodiil PVP to begin with. Ball groups cruising around ripping away any player agency from non-participants both on their faction and obviously their victims, blocktanks trivializing all efforts because mitigation and healing is ridiculous, bombs making "1vX" culture look like amateur hour just by pressing a few buttons as a vamp to set their HP low and putting on a few sets? Rallying Cry + (1 of 4 other viable PVP sets) + FotM mythic being what they call "build diversity"? They can keep Grey Host. I'm not going back.

There weren't any ball groups in vengeance. There were groups, but you can't make a comped ball group with the limitations inherent in vengeance mode. We couldn't do anything in vengeance mode except zerg. It was the worst PvP ZOS has ever delivered.

Markytous

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

darvaria wrote: »

They should keep Vengeance just like it was. Instead, they have 3 empty campaigns and GH.

NOT saying GH should be changed but WHY not Vengeance? Vengeance with the stat buff is the same as no CP. Stat buff under 50 players and it might even offer a campaign that actually has players for PVP for under 50. BR is only for special interest groups that want to run emp and get achievements they can' get at GH.

It was nice to see players actually grouping up and able to play without having to avoid ball groups and staying away from any group to avoid bombers. Just not having VD was worth it.

Such a difference in play. So much, I have decided to take a break from GH. Quite a few players are taking breaks rn which explains why GH is dying off in prime time. Since the other campaigns are basically always 1/1/1 unless some guild jumps on BR to PV Door the map, there really isn't another option.

Vengeance reminded me what drew me to Cyrodiil PVP to begin with. Ball groups cruising around ripping away any player agency from non-participants both on their faction and obviously their victims, blocktanks trivializing all efforts because mitigation and healing is ridiculous, bombs making "1vX" culture look like amateur hour just by pressing a few buttons as a vamp to set their HP low and putting on a few sets? Rallying Cry + (1 of 4 other viable PVP sets) + FotM mythic being what they call "build diversity"? They can keep Grey Host. I'm not going back.

There weren't any ball groups in vengeance. There were groups, but you can't make a comped ball group with the limitations inherent in vengeance mode. We couldn't do anything in vengeance mode except zerg. It was the worst PvP ZOS has ever delivered.

Read my message again and edit accordingly. That was exactly what I was saying. No ball groups? GOOD. No blockbots? GOOD. No bombs? GOOD. If you couldn't find something to do other than zerg in Vengeance then you need to think outside of the box. I was out there cutting supply lines to the front lines, burning camps and taking resources adjacent to combat. You get to make your own content out there without the impending ballgroup or proc-cheese coming to everything that flags like on Live. By the way, ballgroups aren't a good thing in PVP - they suck the fun out of it for everyone. Just saying that for reference just in case.

CatoUnchained

Markytous wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

darvaria wrote: »

They should keep Vengeance just like it was. Instead, they have 3 empty campaigns and GH.

NOT saying GH should be changed but WHY not Vengeance? Vengeance with the stat buff is the same as no CP. Stat buff under 50 players and it might even offer a campaign that actually has players for PVP for under 50. BR is only for special interest groups that want to run emp and get achievements they can' get at GH.

It was nice to see players actually grouping up and able to play without having to avoid ball groups and staying away from any group to avoid bombers. Just not having VD was worth it.

Such a difference in play. So much, I have decided to take a break from GH. Quite a few players are taking breaks rn which explains why GH is dying off in prime time. Since the other campaigns are basically always 1/1/1 unless some guild jumps on BR to PV Door the map, there really isn't another option.

Vengeance reminded me what drew me to Cyrodiil PVP to begin with. Ball groups cruising around ripping away any player agency from non-participants both on their faction and obviously their victims, blocktanks trivializing all efforts because mitigation and healing is ridiculous, bombs making "1vX" culture look like amateur hour just by pressing a few buttons as a vamp to set their HP low and putting on a few sets? Rallying Cry + (1 of 4 other viable PVP sets) + FotM mythic being what they call "build diversity"? They can keep Grey Host. I'm not going back.

There weren't any ball groups in vengeance. There were groups, but you can't make a comped ball group with the limitations inherent in vengeance mode. We couldn't do anything in vengeance mode except zerg. It was the worst PvP ZOS has ever delivered.

Read my message again and edit accordingly. That was exactly what I was saying. No ball groups? GOOD. No blockbots? GOOD. No bombs? GOOD. If you couldn't find something to do other than zerg in Vengeance then you need to think outside of the box. I was out there cutting supply lines to the front lines, burning camps and taking resources adjacent to combat. You get to make your own content out there without the impending ballgroup or proc-cheese coming to everything that flags like on Live. By the way, ballgroups aren't a good thing in PVP - they suck the fun out of it for everyone. Just saying that for reference just in case.

It's was almost impossible to solo a resource during the vengeance camp. The guards are too OP with too much healing given how limited individual players were with dps. So......

I play in Cyro 2 hours/day since 2015 in an organized guild raid. And solo the rest of the time. In normal mode I have no problem at all solo'ing a resource. It takes longer to flip the flag than it does to kill the guards in normal Cyro PvP. But it was almost impossible during vengeance. So.....

Markytous

CatoUnchained wrote: »

It's was almost impossible to solo a resource during the vengeance camp. The guards are too OP with too much healing given how limited individual players were with dps. So......

I play in Cyro 2 hours/day since 2015 in an organized guild raid. And solo the rest of the time. In normal mode I have no problem at all solo'ing a resource. It takes longer to flip the flag than it does to kill the guards in normal Cyro PvP. But it was almost impossible during vengeance. So.....

Not flexing on you at all but I was able to solo resources fine in Vengeance Cyrodiil. That's where the "Player Agency" of Vengeance Cyrodiil starts to take off in interesting directions. I noticed different players slotting different skills within the same class which made that class more effective in different areas. No matter what class I played, I made sure I had a tool for every situation and, yes, I was able to solo resources on each class that I tested. Of course its more challenging to do so in Vengeance - Cyrodiil Live allows me to solo entire outposts and keeps... So again, the peeling back of insane feats from each player and incentivizing factions to work together was genuinely felt during this test. Cyrodiil is supposed to be a war, after all.

Joy_Division

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

darvaria wrote: »

They should keep Vengeance just like it was. Instead, they have 3 empty campaigns and GH.

NOT saying GH should be changed but WHY not Vengeance? Vengeance with the stat buff is the same as no CP. Stat buff under 50 players and it might even offer a campaign that actually has players for PVP for under 50. BR is only for special interest groups that want to run emp and get achievements they can' get at GH.

It was nice to see players actually grouping up and able to play without having to avoid ball groups and staying away from any group to avoid bombers. Just not having VD was worth it.

Such a difference in play. So much, I have decided to take a break from GH. Quite a few players are taking breaks rn which explains why GH is dying off in prime time. Since the other campaigns are basically always 1/1/1 unless some guild jumps on BR to PV Door the map, there really isn't another option.

Vengeance reminded me what drew me to Cyrodiil PVP to begin with. Ball groups cruising around ripping away any player agency from non-participants both on their faction and obviously their victims, blocktanks trivializing all efforts because mitigation and healing is ridiculous, bombs making "1vX" culture look like amateur hour just by pressing a few buttons as a vamp to set their HP low and putting on a few sets? Rallying Cry + (1 of 4 other viable PVP sets) + FotM mythic being what they call "build diversity"? They can keep Grey Host. I'm not going back.

There weren't any ball groups in vengeance. There were groups, but you can't make a comped ball group with the limitations inherent in vengeance mode. We couldn't do anything in vengeance mode except zerg. It was the worst PvP ZOS has ever delivered.

This is a tacit admission that group organization and collective skill level are not nearly as important as broken mechanics when explaining the power ball groups have.

CatoUnchained

Joy_Division wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

darvaria wrote: »

They should keep Vengeance just like it was. Instead, they have 3 empty campaigns and GH.

NOT saying GH should be changed but WHY not Vengeance? Vengeance with the stat buff is the same as no CP. Stat buff under 50 players and it might even offer a campaign that actually has players for PVP for under 50. BR is only for special interest groups that want to run emp and get achievements they can' get at GH.

It was nice to see players actually grouping up and able to play without having to avoid ball groups and staying away from any group to avoid bombers. Just not having VD was worth it.

Such a difference in play. So much, I have decided to take a break from GH. Quite a few players are taking breaks rn which explains why GH is dying off in prime time. Since the other campaigns are basically always 1/1/1 unless some guild jumps on BR to PV Door the map, there really isn't another option.

Vengeance reminded me what drew me to Cyrodiil PVP to begin with. Ball groups cruising around ripping away any player agency from non-participants both on their faction and obviously their victims, blocktanks trivializing all efforts because mitigation and healing is ridiculous, bombs making "1vX" culture look like amateur hour just by pressing a few buttons as a vamp to set their HP low and putting on a few sets? Rallying Cry + (1 of 4 other viable PVP sets) + FotM mythic being what they call "build diversity"? They can keep Grey Host. I'm not going back.

There weren't any ball groups in vengeance. There were groups, but you can't make a comped ball group with the limitations inherent in vengeance mode. We couldn't do anything in vengeance mode except zerg. It was the worst PvP ZOS has ever delivered.

This is a tacit admission that group organization and collective skill level are not nearly as important as broken mechanics when explaining the power ball groups have.

"tacit admission"? (I know what the phrase means, it just doesn't apply here)

Our complaint all along has been that ZOS is putting broken sets like RoA into a PvP environment is a serious problem, and that heal and shield stacking needs to be limited to reel in ball groups.

illutian

Hopefully they'll be cheeky and make another Cyro event: REvengence

And this time test Gear Sets + Vengeance skills.

---

No really, proper test is needed. I've had sieges were it's 1990s Dialup with a small ball in the wee hours, and 2016 Fiber with siege-capped and several full raids running around. I think it's Gear Sets doing this, with the cost 'check' for triggers and such. But it could also be the cost spamming of abilities that are causing the lag (I'd be betting on any HoT/Regen type abilities).

Also. Definitely another test event titled Boogaloo, where it's non-AOE Gear Sets + Vengeance skills.