Werewolf, Class Identity, and Regret: An Introspection

Erickson9610

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Class Identity, how it relates to Werewolf, and the regrets I've had with my initial Class choice. It's pretty much just a recap of why I started playing ESO, what I picked as my initial Class, and how I felt about that choice then and now.

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I started playing The Elder Scrolls Online in October of 2016. I had just come from The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, which was my introduction to the franchise. I picked up this series because of its werewolf gameplay — to this day, Skyrim has the best open world werewolf gameplay of any game, in my opinion. Naturally, I wanted to try The Elder Scrolls Online, as it was a newer TES game that also had werewolf gameplay, and I was ready to try something new.


So when I get to the character creation screen, I am met with four Class choices — Sorcerer, Templar, Dragonknight, or Nightblade. I hated mage-like characters, so Sorcerer was out of the question. I wanted my werewolf character to be skilled with martial weapons, and I thought that the "assassin" archetype of Nightblade wouldn't fit. So, I was down to a choice between Templar and Dragonknight. The deciding factor for me was the descriptions of these Classes — Dragonknight's description mentions wielding "fearsome magic" whereas Templar's description calls them "traveling knights". I picked Templar, because I wanted to distance my character from any magic use, and the "knight" description felt appropriate.

I am grateful that I didn't create my first character after the Warden released in 2017. I know I would've picked that Class without hesitation — nature and werewolves are a closer match than martial skills and werewolves. But why would I regret picking Warden?


It's because of Class Identity. When you transform into a werewolf with Werewolf Transformation, you can't use any of your Class skills, but you can use select Class passives. Although a Warden Werewolf would be a thematic pairing in theory, most of the passives of Warden do not work in Werewolf form.

Actually, for a very long time I regretted picking Templar. As I became acclimated to the game's combat, I learned that Sorcerer, of all Classes, was the best Class for Werewolf. I was devastated — the one Class which I didn't want to play would give the Werewolf form the best advantage. It didn't even make thematic sense! I created an alternate character to play a Sorcerer Werewolf, but I hardly played them as I had already made so much progress on my Templar Werewolf. I didn't feel like beginning the game over again just for a slight damage increase.

Of course, I later learned that Templars are supposed to be opposed to werewolves. That's yet another reason I've regretted picking Templar — not only was it not best in slot for Werewolf damage dealing at the time, it was also arguably the least thematic from a roleplaying perspective. I wanted the nature theme of Warden, and the damage of Sorcerer. I couldn't have both, and instead I was stuck with a non-thematic Class which wasn't the best at the role I wanted to play.

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So where does that leave me now? Sure, I have some other Class Werewolves for when I make a PvE or PvP build that utilizes their compatible Class passives in a unique way. I still stick with my Templar Werewolf, though — but I don't consider my character to be a Templar. No, my character is just a Werewolf, as long as I can remain transformed. While I won't get to have the unique benefits that other Classes have in their Werewolf form, I've accepted my initial choice from 2016.

It's not a bad choice, either — since the change to Burning Light, Templar Werewolf is the only Werewolf able to deal "Class" damage while transformed, so sets like Overwhelming Surge can be used. But looking at Templar's Class Mastery effect, in the event that Werewolf gets a Scribing Grimoire that can use it, leaves much to be desired. Further, both of Templar's Class Sets can't be used in Werewolf form, whereas some of the other Class Sets (like Pyrebrand) can be used on Werewolf as they don't require Class abilities.


Does Werewolf have Class Identity? Not really; you can't tell which Class you are while transformed. But, Werewolf ironically has the most identity (and, on the other hand, restriction) of its own, being its own playstyle that is identifiable at a glance. Despite everything, I don't regret playing ESO just to play as a werewolf.

El_Borracho

Role playing and lore issues aside, the flaw with werewolf is they are not the werewolves that were originally introduced into the game. They were supposed to be brute DDs with high resistance but a fatal weakness with poison. They were extremely fun to play and viable in PVP, and even had utility in PVE.

But with the "nerf this to oblivion because I died" threads that ensued, we are stuck with todays werewolf: a niche in PVE and a tanky diversion role in PVP groups that doesn't do much damage. I wish they would bring back the original

Soarora

I’d love to see a third pass over vampires and werewolves by adding more strains with morphs focused on different things (like a werebear tank or DPS, a werecroc healer or DPS, etc.). That way, werewolves could go back to just being support DPS or DPS.

Both of my werewolves happen to be sorcerer but I’ve never fully leaned into being a werewolf because it largely doesn’t seem to be worth it. It’s not that I don’t like werewolf, I played werewolf in Skyrim often and I remember rampaging around Whiterun for several in-game days straight— had a blast.

Wereswan

Of course, I later learned that Templars are supposed to be opposed to werewolves. That's yet another reason I've regretted picking Templar — not only was it not best in slot for Werewolf damage dealing at the time, it was also arguably the least thematic from a roleplaying perspective. I wanted the nature theme of Warden, and the damage of Sorcerer. I couldn't have both, and instead I was stuck with a non-thematic Class which wasn't the best at the role I wanted to play.

Paradoxically, this is what makes Templar such a likely possibility. As the Silver Dawn motif pages note, being injured by a werewolf is a distinct possibility when hunting them—and while any class can be a werewolf hunter, Templars are most likely to be drawn to it.

Erickson9610

Wereswan wrote: »

Of course, I later learned that Templars are supposed to be opposed to werewolves. That's yet another reason I've regretted picking Templar — not only was it not best in slot for Werewolf damage dealing at the time, it was also arguably the least thematic from a roleplaying perspective. I wanted the nature theme of Warden, and the damage of Sorcerer. I couldn't have both, and instead I was stuck with a non-thematic Class which wasn't the best at the role I wanted to play.

Paradoxically, this is what makes Templar such a likely possibility. As the Silver Dawn motif pages note, being injured by a werewolf is a distinct possibility when hunting them—and while any class can be a werewolf hunter, Templars are most likely to be drawn to it.

I really appreciate this perspective. I believe there's at least some way to justify any Class being a Werewolf.

I do often say that I wish ZOS would make a new Companion character who is both a Templar and a Werewolf, in order to highlight that juxtaposition for their narrative. I could definitely use it for my own character's backstory, at least.

SpiritKitten

Actually, when I made my werewolf, all the discussion named stamina Templar ORC BiS for its passives as related to ww. I only stopped playing ww because it looks male.

JaxontheUnfortunate

While I have 9 toons all werewolves I still love running my dragon knight werewolf in all aspects of the game, including vet non-hm (PvE/PvP). I originally picked dragon knight as I usually build tanks for pve and it sort of developed from there.

I'm here to have fun and not get bored with meta builds.

tomofhyrule

I do wish that they’d throw werewolves a bone now (pun entirely intended).

Werewolf, considering it replaces your skills with its own and essentially cuts you off from most passives, needs to be balanced as a class and not a series of skills. Notably, a class that has no access to an ult.

I did like the change to Roar so I can legitimately tank with my wolf (which is a lot of fun) but I’d love to see the ability to add some Scribing stuff to fill holes in their kit. You really can’t make a werehealer, and even weretanking is a bit tougher without access to a pull, but it is better than being forced to run tormentor and only taunt once every 5 seconds.

But if nothing else, give us fur color skill styles. My wolf is supposed to be brownish, and it feels so bad that the closest I can get is to gimp myself by keeping the transformation unmorphed.

As for other were-forms… I wouldn’t totally mind, but probably just keep it on the surface-level recolor. Technically my original idea was that my werewolf should have been a werebear from the start, but that wasn’t an option.

The Elder Scrolls has really only ever had playable werewolves (Daggerfall, Bloodmoon, and Skyrim) and wereboars (Daggerfall only), but we did have nonplayable werebear enemies in the Dragonborn expansion of Skyrim. ESO also has a handful of werebats, but they’re just renamed giant bat enemies.
I will say that, as much as I think the three normal wolf colors should be free Skill Styles, if they just made werebears (and wereboars for others) as some super premium Crown Store purchase, I’d buy it immediately. I could totally deal with a werebear just using werewolf animations.

Alaztor91

Werewolves should imo not gain any bonuses from Class Passives(and maybe Racials too?), and in exchange the WW passives should be buffed. It's not like Vampires where you can actually combine your Class and Vamp skills together.

Erickson9610

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Werewolves should imo not gain any bonuses from Class Passives(and maybe Racials too?), and in exchange the WW passives should be buffed. It's not like Vampires where you can actually combine your Class and Vamp skills together.

While that would take away some build diversity, I do see where this idea is coming from. Class and Race are irrelevant while transformed, so why factor those passives in at all? That would mean my Class and Race would be picked to suit the human form build, which I don't intend to play.

Darth_LucSky

Chiming in into this discussion, but from another perspective, which is build viability in actual content. I'm a Dragonknight Werewolf main, I play since 2016, like OP, and have been a werewolf since the beginning. I've learned all the limits there is to werewolves, and I can say that they can be excellent damage dealers, and decent tanks, in 4-man content, thanks to things like Oakensoul.
Last week, I got the Bedlam Veil trifecta with my prog group, playing as a werewolf. Oakensoul made me survivable and capable to do damage, at the same time. We werewolves are already restricted to one bar anyway, so Oakensoul is a strong enhancement.
In PvP, werewolves are extremely good as well, especially DKs, because of how strong Pyrebrand is. Play as a Werewolf Berserker and you'll have a very high pressure damage build going on. Thanks to the changes made to Deafening Roar, you can have both Major and Minor Protection in PvP, using Oakensoul, and still be able to do lots of damage. Switch to Packleader if you want even more survivability, at the cost of damage pressure.
I think the only true weakness for werewolves are in trials. That environment is not suited for melee builds. In fact, there are some fights that don't even allow you to be a werewolf (Cloudrest Relequen fight comes to mind). Sure, it is possible to do some adaptations, but this would cost you very precious damage, and I can't think of a single raid leader that would want to sacrifice a precious DPS spot, that could be an Arcanist, for a werewolf DD.

Anyways, to summarize, werewolves are still viable in a lot of ways, and I encourage everyone to not let meta dictate otherwise.

BXR_Lonestar

Honestly WW went downhill the moment they made resistances effective against bleed damage.

They need to go back to bleed damage being like Oblivion Damage, and then adjust bleed damage accordingly in order to give WW a fighting chance.

dark_hunterxmg

I started playing Werewolf (pvp) just because found it to be fun. Running around as a big ol doggo, or a group of them is a good time. I'm not into the rp aspect of the playstyle, but know many players are.
Playing Werewolf has its own set of challenges. I am fully aware that this playstyle is objectively the worst in pvp for damage, healing, survivability, utility, sustain, etc. Taking all of those things into consideration, I believe it can still be viable if configured properly. Limited tools and skills pushes me to think outside the box, and then outside of that box to try and make it work. It can* give many good players a run for their money, but it has to be min/maxed to the limit and is not going to be ideal in human form. The gap between a Werewolf and literally any human class is huge. I hope that the gap closes, but the introduction of scribing has left werewolves even further behind.

Erickson9610

autocookies wrote: »

deleted

I know you've deleted your post, but I appreciate you sharing your story as well, albeit briefly.