How important is class identity?

sleepy_worm

How important is class identity to your gameplay in ESO?

sleepy_worm

I'm Not Sure

Sorry for the vague question, but I'm trying to make this as unbiased as possible. I'm on the fence here, myself.

LunaFlora

Somewhat Unimportant

i like when there's class exclusive dialogue just like with races or vampires.
It hasn't happened a lot, but it's fun when it does occur.
i remember it happening when you first meet Azandar as an Arcanist and the Necromancer quest giver of Silorn as a Necromancer.

Any characters that are also our classes or books that add to the lore of the classes is fun.
I love the Arcanist Loremaster's Archive.


However, i do not like that the Infinite Archive outfit styles from the class sets are class exclusive, especially because the Soulcleaver style has the current one and only mask style.
Every other mask (that only covers the mouth), Hat collectible or Helmet outfit style, has a hood.
They are also the only outfit styles that not every character can use, it's a bit absurd.


The Class sets themselves are awesome though, i hope we get even more in the future after each Class skill line has gotten one.


I don't mind when other classes have access to similar abilities that were previously only for a specific class like when Vampire Mistform got changed into a teleport similar to Sorcerer's Bolt Escape, it's not exactly the same anyways as Mistform needs ground to teleport onto.
Even if a skill functions similarly to one Class' skill, they still tend to sound and look different.


i think that's it as for my opinion on Class identity. at least of what I understand Class identity to be.

Erickson9610

Not Important

I lose all my class identity when I transform with Werewolf Transformation. I'd rather play as a Werewolf than as whatever Class I'm shoehorned into playing outside of form.

spartaxoxo

Somewhat Important

I think it's important to have class choice matter and to feel impactful. Things like different dialogue for some quests, the infinite archive, and classes having unique things they bring to the table are all good things that add value to the game.

But I also don't think it should not be so important that it prevents some very useful things from being broadly accessible. For example, I think all classes should have access to strong cleave and I hope to see some better cleave skills added to scribing.

I don't want all classes to play the same and just be different skins for the same kit. So, I think smaller things like the Sorcerers being the only ones who can permanently summon Daedra is alright or Night blades being better at invisibility is important. It gives you a reason to play the class. I also think it would be good if each class had a unique group buff to bring to table but that they major/minor ones should be broadly accessible.

Overall, I think class identity is somewhat important. But that it should take a backseat to ensuring that all of the classes feel good to play in harder content. I think that all classes should be able to deal with both large groups and single targets as DPS. They should all feel good in PVP .That it's okay for them to have small, unique group buffs for support roles. But that everyone should access to all the major/minor buffs and that the unique buffs aren't so strong they mandate any particular group compositions.

JemadarofCaerSalis

I'm Not Sure

i voted not sure, because it depends on what you mean by class identity.

Does it mean that I can easily recognize when someone else is using that class? If so, I don't care. About the only classes I can recognize easily are sorcerors, when they have pets, wardens, when they have a bear running after them, and the neon green lasers of arcanists. Everything else is pretty much 'who knows what they are playing'.

If you mean things like the game recognizing *I* am playing a sorceror, and giving dialogue or having people make note of that like some do with race, then I think it would be a great touch if done right.

If you mean something else entirely, then I don't know how I feel.

Hapexamendios

Somewhat Important

It is important in that I don't want the classes to have very similar skills. There shouldn't be homogenized.

DreamyLu

Not Important

There are two aspects for me.

If it's regarding me personally (subject of the poll?): I play the class I like, but I don't identify to it. It's more a matter of choosing the class that is the easiest to me. Now if I have to change for whatever reason, it's no worries at all. I'm not link to it emotionally in any way.

If it's regarding my characters: The class is part of/define my toon, like her name, her appearance and so on. If I want to play a different class, then it will be different toon.

edward_frigidhands

Not Important

It's not.

katanagirl1

Very Important

I enjoyed playing different classes in the past, before hybridization. They all had a distinct playstyle. Now everyone is dual wield front bar and staff back bar, virtually the same skills regardless of class. They mostly wear the same gear regardless of class. Sure, you could do something different but you would sacrifice dps for it. Now stamina toons are hardly different from magicka toons.

I’ve said this before, but every class should bring something unique to the table when it comes to endgame group content. It used to be more like that but not much anymore.

MorganaLaVey

Very Important

Jabs is why i started my DD and i want them back pls

EvilGoatKing

Not Important

It used to be, it hasnt been for a pretty long time unless you are climbing a particular leaderboard and must conform to whatever class is in the numbers meta position.

Renato90085

Very Important

People always feel it's unfair so they stifle diversity
so now we play any class use same build and same play style

Jestir

Somewhat Unimportant

While it's nice to to have consistent visuals or damage types which classes generally provide, especially when identifying a class in pvp, I don't find "class identity" very important

As someone who has advocated for class change tokens, I think freedom of choice to play how you want is more important then say being upset everyone is using an arcanist beam for everything

Two_Ears

Somewhat Important

Class identity for gameplay is quite important. Especially in a game like ESO where every single character can wear (what feels like) any single equipment piece. When characters are relying heavily on weapon skills, without class identity it doesn't matter what one plays.

I like that Arcanists are spewing neon green, and wardens have the bear. At least visually it sets them apart.

I think gameplay wise, all classes should have another passive resource pool and a way to use it in the world - be it increase crit, reduce incoming damage, have tethered abilities that consume resources, change form etc.

Pixiepumpkin

Very Important

Class identity is of the utomost importance, else why have classes at all where the min maxers find the optimum gear set and rotation and we all play the same. Boring.

Class identity is also a visual clue/non communication to the player to understand what kind of encounter you are about to face.

Lets think of World of Warcraft and PVP terms. In WoW, when you see a Frost Mage, (if you have played the game for a little time) you will understand the kind of abilities they will use. This allows you to formulate how you will counter the Frost Mage.

The same goes for any class.

In ESO, most of that goes out the window because of gear sets/procs, skill lines, etc. Half the time during an actual engagement I can't tell you what I am fighting unless I see one of their class abilties.

But at the end of the day, having unique "classes" allows for a much greater diversity of play vs everyone using the same skiills, same rotation, etc.

This is one of the issues I have witih ESO combat in general. Roll Dodge/Block are generally the most used defensive abilities.

tomofhyrule

Somewhat Important

I do like to have references to Classes (e.g. in dialogue), and I like to have different Classes feel different. It does get a bit boring and samey if everyone plays the same.

What I would like is for every class to have its own niche. I love the idea of different Classes being able to do things in different ways because of their respective skills and passives.

Granted, I don't agree with the locking of cosmetics like the Class styles. I'd even be okay with unlocking the sets to use on any class, with the caveat that only one class can make use of the 5-piece since the others don't have the requisite skill line (but they can still use the 2-4 piece bonuses). I also don't mind having skills from weapon or other lines in addition to Class skills, but every one of my characters does end up pulling into their Class skills in some way.

That's why I'm really hoping for a new Class. There are a lot of possible things that they could still do for a new Class that would be kinda unique and give it something the others don't have (e.g. access to de/buffs like Timidity, which is currently only seen on poisons; or attacks that do unique things like a stamina negate to oppose the Sorc's mag negate). I also think that there's a playstyle we really don't have in a trap fighter, since most of the trap moves are guild lines (Sorc has one placeable trap in Daedric Mines, but that doesn't really work as a trap like the FG trap or MG rune). Finally, it also could give access to things that are requested by the players (Bard class has been asked for for ages)
I really want a Dwemer Artificer with lines for summons, traps, and tonal magic.

Also 7 Classes is just such a weird number, right? Everything in this game seems to be in multiples of 4, so only 7 classes just feels incomplete. Especially if it went to something like 4-base and 4-DLC Classes. I also think that the updates to the tutorial and basegame zones aren't really going to be much unless people have a reason to make a new character again, and a new Class is a great excuse to go back to those areas.

tmacedo

Very Important

LunaFlora wrote: »

i like when there's class exclusive dialogue just like with races or vampires.
It hasn't happened a lot, but it's fun when it does occur.
i remember it happening when you first meet Azandar as an Arcanist and the Necromancer quest giver of Silorn as a Necromancer.

Remembers me of Eveli in Blackwood being sarcastic about your toon being part of Dark Brotherhood when Elam also appears.

This short dialogue annoys me so much because my toon is a templar and I maintain a little headcanon in my head about being more of a "good guy" archetype. I did DB stuff solely for gameplay/achievements before achievements were made account-wide.

She says "your friends" as if you had some kind of part in the plot. Your toon then says "Eveli, we're not like that".

My solution was modifying my headcanon to allow my toon to be some kind of redeemed person, who saw his wrong ways. Anyway, I wish I could unlearn DB skillline lol.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Very Important

Personally I found the game much more engaging when there was clear class identity at launch in 2014.
Now with Hybridization it feels most of the time like I'm playing the same class with slightly different buff options.
I also think that class identity extends into gearing choices. Similarly with hybridization the gearsets are basically the same for each class depending on the type of content.

M0ntie

Very Important

If there isn't class identity, why make any more than 1 character? That gives the game very little replay value or reason to make different characters.

KekwLord3000

Somewhat Important

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Personally I found the game much more engaging when there was clear class identity at launch in 2014.
Now with Hybridization it feels most of the time like I'm playing the same class with slightly different buff options.
I also think that class identity extends into gearing choices. Similarly with hybridization the gearsets are basically the same for each class depending on the type of content.

They tried to bring it back with class exclusive gear, but it only worked for necros.
Otherwise pretty meh

the1andonlyskwex

Very Important

It's important that the classes have a cohesive theme and playstyle, while also being different from each other. That said, I have certainly seen people on these forums claim that balance issues (like the nerf to Templar jabs, and the general weakness of Necromancer) are also class identity issues, which annoys me. A class can have a strong identity and still be weak, and vice versa.

xylena_lazarow

Very Important

If class identity isn't important, then do away with classes and let us choose anything.

DenverRalphy

Very Important

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I enjoyed playing different classes in the past, before hybridization. They all had a distinct playstyle. Now everyone is dual wield front bar and staff back bar, virtually the same skills regardless of class. They mostly wear the same gear regardless of class. Sure, you could do something different but you would sacrifice dps for it. Now stamina toons are hardly different from magicka toons.

I’ve said this before, but every class should bring something unique to the table when it comes to endgame group content. It used to be more like that but not much anymore.

Quoted for emphasis, because it merits repetition.

Unfotrunately, the "play how you want" tagline has become too literal over the past couple/few years resulting in the cookie cutter mechanics we have today.

Wing

Very Important

do you like being different from everyone else? being an individual?

or when you get something unique and cool does it remain so when every little timmy has the same thing?

the obvious is your answer.


ESO classes are just what color of skill would you like, and even that has gone away with skill color swap.

your a rainbow of colors, all doing the exact same damage.

TaSheen

Not Important

Of no importance to all to me. I like my wardens, but as far as "identity" with the class stuff, well - I mostly use weapon skills.

AzuraFan

Very Important

Love my warden bear and all the nature skills.

Ice, not so much.

Grizzbeorn

It should be, otherwise, why even have a Class system?

But it doesn't feel like it is, when non-class skills seem to be more important to so many players, if looking at the popular build sites.
People tend to go with meta skills over class skills, to the degree that Class seems almost pointless at this stage in the life of the game.

tomofhyrule

Somewhat Important

I feel like "Class identity" is one of those things that can be taken in many different ways, but we all know that when people talk about it they mean combat ability.

This is really a point right here:

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I enjoyed playing different classes in the past, before hybridization. They all had a distinct playstyle. Now everyone is dual wield front bar and staff back bar, virtually the same skills regardless of class. They mostly wear the same gear regardless of class. Sure, you could do something different but you would sacrifice dps for it. Now stamina toons are hardly different from magicka toons.

I’ve said this before, but every class should bring something unique to the table when it comes to endgame group content. It used to be more like that but not much anymore.

Now that everyone has the same meta, it really feels like Classes don't mean anything anymore, which is sad.

This does go along with something that my trade guild GM brought to us from the Guild summit last week - they opened up for a Q&A session, even about things other than guilds, and this one one of the things mentioned:

Q: Thoughts about hybridization. A lot of the community isn't a fan of builds all being funneled in one direction.

A: Heard. Why do you feel you have to run exactly what the meta is.
(Questioner answers: "the creators show the best of the best").
Back to Rich: You don't need 120k DPS to do a trial. The meta can change. There's lots of builds that aren't necessarily "the most viable". We've watched this over the years and as soon as someone breaks a record, everyone changes their build. That's lessened past few years because we've been focused on making things consistent. Just because a creator says it's best, is it actually mandatory? I would argue it's not. ALSO, pay attention to Global Reveal in April.

While "you don't need to run the meta" is a noble concept (and let's face it, I really do like to have fun and do silly things like tank on a werewolf), people are gonna be people. The addition of hybridization and homogenization of everything has empowered people to micromanage their entire compositions, and as a result we're seeing more people shoehorned into a handful of builds.

After all, see the number of complaints that Heavy Attack builds are excluded from trials because a raid lead only wants people running the top meta. Even though those other builds can do them, the endgame PvE community never fully recovered after Account-wide Achievements and U35 so the remaining leads are a lot more selective and demanding than what we had before.
(and some would say 'not as good,' because I've seen top-level players whose requirements are just "bring whatever that has a high enough parse" while the mid-level ones are trying to get the trifecta-level compositions for a standard vet farm run because they can't comprehend that you don't need 120k to do a standard trial... or that just giving someone an Arcanist with Deadly/Rele isn't magically going to make them do 120k)

So I think that hybridization is a noble concept to try to make things easier to get people into trials... but doesn't account for the fact that a lot of the well-meaning leads have left the game and we're left with people who will just use hybridization to gatekeep. I fear that going further along the path of reducing Class identity will only make it easier for these people to gatekeep, even if the goal is to broaden it.

flaxegg

Very Important

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I feel like "Class identity" is one of those things that can be taken in many different ways, but we all know that when people talk about it they mean combat ability.

This is really a point right here:

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I enjoyed playing different classes in the past, before hybridization. They all had a distinct playstyle. Now everyone is dual wield front bar and staff back bar, virtually the same skills regardless of class. They mostly wear the same gear regardless of class. Sure, you could do something different but you would sacrifice dps for it. Now stamina toons are hardly different from magicka toons.

I’ve said this before, but every class should bring something unique to the table when it comes to endgame group content. It used to be more like that but not much anymore.
Back to Rich: You don't need 120k DPS to do a trial. The meta can change. There's lots of builds that aren't necessarily "the most viable". We've watched this over the years and as soon as someone breaks a record, everyone changes their build. That's lessened past few years because we've been focused on making things consistent. Just because a creator says it's best, is it actually mandatory? I would argue it's not. ALSO, pay attention to Global Reveal in April.

While "you don't need to run the meta" is a noble concept (and let's face it, I really do like to have fun and do silly things like tank on a werewolf), people are gonna be people. The addition of hybridization and homogenization of everything has empowered people to micromanage their entire compositions, and as a result we're seeing more people shoehorned into a handful of builds.

After all, see the number of complaints that Heavy Attack builds are excluded from trials because a raid lead only wants people running the top meta. Even though those other builds can do them, the endgame PvE community never fully recovered after Account-wide Achievements and U35 so the remaining leads are a lot more selective and demanding than what we had before.
(and some would say 'not as good,' because I've seen top-level players whose requirements are just "bring whatever that has a high enough parse" while the mid-level ones are trying to get the trifecta-level compositions for a standard vet farm run because they can't comprehend that you don't need 120k to do a standard trial... or that just giving someone an Arcanist with Deadly/Rele isn't magically going to make them do 120k)

So I think that hybridization is a noble concept to try to make things easier to get people into trials... but doesn't account for the fact that a lot of the well-meaning leads have left the game and we're left with people who will just use hybridization to gatekeep. I fear that going further along the path of reducing Class identity will only make it easier for these people to gatekeep, even if the goal is to broaden it.

Wow, no kidding. Very strange take from Rich there. Yeah, sure, maybe you don't *need* 120k DPS, but people will absolutely want that and it *will* almost certainly be harder to find a group if you want to use a build other than "the best."

Vaqual

Somewhat Important

This is a complex topic in ESO.

On one hand, unique mechanics add replayability value. In other games I have often played all available classes, simply because it was fun and somewhat tied to specific roles. In ESO you can play any role with your main class, which is an aspect that I like, but of course it diminishes the replayability value.

But on the other hand, I have to like the flavour/style of a class enough to even engage with it in the long term. For me that comes mostly from the thematic basis of the class, the ability names and most importantly their visual effects. In that regard, I have to say that ESO is pretty much among the worst MMOs I have played, as I find Warden, Arcanist, Templar and Necromancer basically unplayable due to their horrendous ability animations and somewhat mediocre ability flavor. In these cases the "unique" elements that these classes offer are just not enough to make me play them properly.
I play mainly NB, but I am not at all interested in the "Assassin" playstyle. I like the Shadow & Blood theme of the other skill lines, making it my favourite class overall, closely followed by DK and Sorc.
Taking both these points into account, I am mostly happy about the large palette of generic abilities that let me fill some gaps and adjust my playstyle to something more appealing, e.g., avoiding the hunchback on DK. I think the customizability is one of the main draws of ESO compared to the established competition. I would not want to give that up and rather see more ways of creating my custom "class", tied to the roleplay for a specific character, in true Elder Scrolls fashion.
I see how that can have negative effects on PvE/PvP metas, but that is really simply a balancing issue. Having access to everything is something that can absolutely work - if the right elements are mutually exclusive or certain combinations have limited effectiveness through inherent debuffs. Bar space and resources are also limited, so they have enough tools to work with in principle. The bottom line for me in this regard is: Does it matter if a raid stacks 5 generic meta DPS or 5 times the most meta DPS class? No, not really. Prioritizing the meta over the gameplay experience is partially a player decision, and not all margins in performance are worth fussing about.
Apart from that, class passives should be reworked to synergetically work with generic part of the ability kit, instead of offering something like 2 % Stat XY per ability slotted (high commitment, weak return) - that could add a significant amount of "class identity". A good example for this is DKs combustion, which works with any kind of burning/poison source.

To sum it up: Yes, I think class identity is important in MMORPGS, but the identity that has been given to the classes in ESO is not great for multiple individual reasons. The fact that we can customize to such a large degree is really the redeeming quality of the game and not a problem from my pespective. It somewhat drives narrower metas, but that is entirely fixeable through good and informed balancing.