companions and combat pets must bash when needed

said no one ever

i'm looking at you crimson mother who sucks the life out of solo players who cant bash for themselves

fizl101

Companion tanks do bash, not sure if they do set up as melee dds, the others are too far away

thatnewcatsmell

maybe

Companions: fine, they're player stand-ins in situations where it's viable. I might be imagining things, but I think companions can already interrupt, but I guess they forget when it's really necessary (e.g. Deadlands WB, High Isle public dungeon group event).

Combat pets: bad idea, it just trivialises a whole bunch of mechanics and ruins certain strats where you don't (immediately) want to interrupt something or want certain players to interrupt.

Dragonnord

said no one ever wrote: »

i'm looking at you crimson mother who sucks the life out of solo players who cant bash for themselves

That's probably the only boss (maybe 1 o 2 more) out of maybe 500 bosses the game has where you need to bash.

Also, the mechanic lasts about 10 seconds and you can easily out heal the damage by leaving healing areas on the ground or having a companion heal you too.

It's not always just hitting, sometimes we need to adjust or adapt to the fight.

By the way, Companions already interrupt.
 

magnusthorek

Companions must interrupt, regardless their role. For example, Zerith-var is an awesome tank, but I've lost count on how many times he was useless in fights like Aramril in Infinite Archive's Theater of War.

Every time I tried, I had to stop hitting the big crystals to interrupt her all the way across the enormous arena, because he didn't do his job right preventing her from doing her Seeking Runescrawl attack.

Curiously, Bastian, who's also a tank, seems better at bashing things. 🤔

AcadianPaladin

I run MIrri as a tank and she bash/interrupts quite well. Where I really notice it is when we're solo vs a WB or normal group dungeon boss.

DenverRalphy

Companions already bash/interrupt. Though they only do it to whomever they're targeted on. They won't switch targets just because another target has an interuptable skill about to go off. Though when I run a ranged HA build in IA, Azandar will often interrupt when I need him to because it's easy to just initiate a HA on an interuptable target, which commands the companion to focus that target. And it doesn't require a full heavy attack, since with a lightning/resto staff he'll switch targets the first or second tick of the HA.

Combat pets? I don't think they should. Despite appearances, they're basically just Skills in a manifested form. Granting them the ability to interrupt would be an overpowered skill.

BretonMage

yes

I honestly have never had a companion perform an interrupt for me. Wuyuvus, nope, Unmaker, nope, Aramil, nope, Moonhunter Keep, nope, BRP, nope.. can't remember the others.

I think at the very least, they should have the ability to interrupt when the player is pinned/frozen.

tomofhyrule

Companions do if they're in melee range. I have seen Zerith do it loads of times even though he's set up as a DPS.

But if there's a mechanic like Wuyuvus that locks you down and you intend to solo it without other people, then you want to also run Pregoc. You can cast that ult when CCd and bash your own thing. I've soloed Wuyu with that loads of times, I've gotten out of the BRF Minos chains with that, and even the Crimson PD Boss.

said no one ever

yes

So i'm not the only one struggling with cat man then eh? I'll try Mirri as a tank and see what happens. TY all!

said no one ever

yes

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Companions already bash/interrupt. Though they only do it to whomever they're targeted on. They won't switch targets just because another target has an interuptable skill about to go off. Though when I run a ranged HA build in IA, Azandar will often interrupt when I need him to because it's easy to just initiate a HA on an interuptable target, which commands the companion to focus that target. And it doesn't require a full heavy attack, since with a lightning/resto staff he'll switch targets the first or second tick of the HA.

Combat pets? I don't think they should. Despite appearances, they're basically just Skills in a manifested form. Granting them the ability to interrupt would be an overpowered skill.

Well i have seen on my warden, that bear knock down an enemy when i needed a bash but i think it was more coincidence as evidenced by his not bashing crimson mother,,,,

AcadianPaladin

@said no one ever I have used all the companions as tanks and they all do okay with minor pros and cons. I find the Vanish skill very helpful on tanks. It lets the companion disappear and heal for a few seconds if near death. Since the boss can't see them, they pretty much get a few seconds of damage reprieve as well. The boss can't find the tank so, after a few seconds, targets me. But within another second or two, the tank is back in action and retaunts the boss. Drawback is it requires 5 pieces of medium armor to use. Mirri's unique advantage as a tank is that she has a class skill that is similar (but a bit weaker/shorter) than Vanish so I can put her in all heavy armor. The skill being a bit shorter also gets her back in action before the boss can effectively realize she's disappeared and manage to target me.

I slot a HoT and keep it up on Mirri, have a burst heal at the ready and she uses her 'disappear and heal' skill sometimes. End result is that she works out quite durable for me vs WB or normal group dungeon bosses.

The other companions have unique perks as well - notably Ember has a nice crowd control 'shards' spell and several self healing spells. I have pretty good luck with all of them really and choose Mirri mostly for her personality.

spartaxoxo

yes

Yes, companions should. They're meant to help out in situations another player would be good to have around.

No, combat pets shouldn't. Most Pets are just long lasting dots with some bonus effects basically. They aren't meant to replace players.

Rishikesa108

yes

Companions should learn how to avoid AOE too !!!! they always die in the middle of a AOE, it's ridiculous!

said no one ever

yes

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Companions do if they're in melee range. I have seen Zerith do it loads of times even though he's set up as a DPS.

But if there's a mechanic like Wuyuvus that locks you down and you intend to solo it without other people, then you want to also run Pregoc. You can cast that ult when CCd and bash your own thing. I've soloed Wuyu with that loads of times, I've gotten out of the BRF Minos chains with that, and even the Crimson PD Boss.

OK so i don't understand quite what you mean by Pregoc. assume in this case i'm a dummy and spell it out a little more please.

said no one ever

yes

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

@said no one ever I have used all the companions as tanks and they all do okay with minor pros and cons. I find the Vanish skill very helpful on tanks. It lets the companion disappear and heal for a few seconds if near death. Since the boss can't see them, they pretty much get a few seconds of damage reprieve as well. The boss can't find the tank so, after a few seconds, targets me. But within another second or two, the tank is back in action and retaunts the boss. Drawback is it requires 5 pieces of medium armor to use. Mirri's unique advantage as a tank is that she has a class skill that is similar (but a bit weaker/shorter) than Vanish so I can put her in all heavy armor. The skill being a bit shorter also gets her back in action before the boss can effectively realize she's disappeared and manage to target me.

I slot a HoT and keep it up on Mirri, have a burst heal at the ready and she uses her 'disappear and heal' skill sometimes. End result is that she works out quite durable for me vs WB or normal group dungeon bosses.

The other companions have unique perks as well - notably Ember has a nice crowd control 'shards' spell and several self healing spells. I have pretty good luck with all of them really and choose Mirri mostly for her personality.

Yah i put that 'vanish' spell on her. i only have med weight armor so until i get heavy she'll be tanking with that.

AvalonRanger

yes

Companion AI is too much brain dead.

DenverRalphy

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Companions should learn how to avoid AOE too !!!! they always die in the middle of a AOE, it's ridiculous!

If you load them up with all melee range skills and no evasions... yeah, they're gonna do exactly that. They're following your orders at all times. Those orders include which skills to use and in which order to prioritize them. You can't just slap the highest DPS skills you can find on them (despite what a lot of the build guides from content creators seem to do). It takes some planning.

It's just like (except opposite) players that put a bow in a companion's hands then slot a taunt. They're following the player's orders, so they taunt the enemy then run away to attack at ranged, rinse repeat. Ultimately resetting WB's to everyone's frustration.

Erickson9610

DenverRalphy wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rishikesa108 wrote: »

Companions should learn how to avoid AOE too !!!! they always die in the middle of a AOE, it's ridiculous!

If you load them up with all melee range skills and no evasions... yeah, they're gonna do exactly that. They're following your orders at all times. Those orders include which skills to use and in which order to prioritize them. You can't just slap the highest DPS skills you can find on them (despite what a lot of the build guides from content creators seem to do). It takes some planning.

It's just like (except opposite) players that put a bow in a companion's hands then slot a taunt. They're following the player's orders, so they taunt the enemy then run away to attack at ranged, rinse repeat. Ultimately resetting WB's to everyone's frustration.

This is the part I wish more people appreciated about Companions. It's a different sort of theorycrafting and building than players are used to, but there is a method to help Companions in all sorts of content.

Skill order, "used when" conditions, and a strategic use of a Companion's toolkit are critical to making a useful Companion build. No two Companions have the same exact set of skills (even when Class skill lines are repeated) so each Companion gives you new skills to theorycraft and work with. It's genuinely a lot of fun.

Amottica

no

No. Not at all and if Zenimax stands by logic on this it will never happen.

First, for a companion or pet to effectively use bash to interrupt something that needs to be interrupted, they would need access to the game information and then be programmed to time it perfectly. That does not happen on the player side since we still have to figure out when to bash, even if we have an add-on that warns us we will need to bash soon.


Second, and it follows the first, interrupting is an essential skill every player needs to learn to be reasonably helpful. I have come across melee players well into earning CP that insisted they did not have an interrupt. Having pets and companions play more of the game for us will just make that worse.

Again, every one of us needs to learn to interrupt and watch for the tells for when to do it.

Erickson9610

Amottica wrote: »

First, for a companion or pet to effectively use bash to interrupt something that needs to be interrupted, they would need access to the game information and then be programmed to time it perfectly.

That's a non-issue. Companions already bash exactly when the enemy can be bashed.

tomofhyrule

said no one ever wrote: »

show previous quotes

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Companions do if they're in melee range. I have seen Zerith do it loads of times even though he's set up as a DPS.

But if there's a mechanic like Wuyuvus that locks you down and you intend to solo it without other people, then you want to also run Pregoc. You can cast that ult when CCd and bash your own thing. I've soloed Wuyu with that loads of times, I've gotten out of the BRF Minos chains with that, and even the Crimson PD Boss.

OK so i don't understand quite what you mean by Pregoc. assume in this case i'm a dummy and spell it out a little more please.

Precognition is a morph of the Psijic Undo ultimate. It allows you to step back in time 4 seconds and resets your position. Notably, that morph allows you to cast it while you're trapped, so you can use it to get out of any interrupt mechanics as long as you prepare by having it on your bar and cast it as soon as you get trapped.

Amottica

no

Erickson9610 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Amottica wrote: »

First, for a companion or pet to effectively use bash to interrupt something that needs to be interrupted, they would need access to the game information and then be programmed to time it perfectly.

That's a non-issue. Companions already bash exactly when the enemy can be bashed.

So glad I do not reply on pugs to play ESO.

VDoom1

yes

There seems to be conflicting reports when or if the companions bash at all. So if nothing else the bash mechanic for companions should be improved upon. It should not be a random coin toss if a companion will perform an interrupt or not.

I stopped using companions a while ago. Just seemed like they were dead moments after any battle had begun. Cause of death 99% of the time, not avoiding the big red stuff/AOE.

spartaxoxo

yes

Erickson9610 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Amottica wrote: »

First, for a companion or pet to effectively use bash to interrupt something that needs to be interrupted, they would need access to the game information and then be programmed to time it perfectly.

That's a non-issue. Companions already bash exactly when the enemy can be bashed.

It's wildly inconsistent

Jestir

maybe

Companions yes as they are player stand ins

Pets absolutely not

said no one ever

yes

Amottica wrote: »

No. Not at all and if Zenimax stands by logic on this it will never happen.

First, for a companion or pet to effectively use bash to interrupt something that needs to be interrupted, they would need access to the game information and then be programmed to time it perfectly. That does not happen on the player side since we still have to figure out when to bash, even if we have an add-on that warns us we will need to bash soon.


Second, and it follows the first, interrupting is an essential skill every player needs to learn to be reasonably helpful. I have come across melee players well into earning CP that insisted they did not have an interrupt. Having pets and companions play more of the game for us will just make that worse.

Again, every one of us needs to learn to interrupt and watch for the tells for when to do it.

You're missing the point. Like with crimson mother the player can not interrupt themselves as they are pinned and need someone to interrupt for them or they die. And the companions do have information already that the player doesn't, for example in another spot of the spire of the crimson coin, theres a boss, i forget the name, he disappears and you have to figure out which one is the decoy and which one is the real boss and bash him yourself (player isn't pinned here) and the player could go to a decoy but the companion always runs to the real boss and not the decoy every time. The companion being computer generated sees no decoy that the player would see.

ApoAlaia

maybe

I voted 'maybe' because companions IMO should more reliably bash/interrupt as needed.

Also, unrelated to the OP, I also think they should be able to 'play' some mechanics (like standing on pressure platforms or Malubeth's 'altar' mechanic for instance).

However pets I don't think they should be able to do any of that.

DenverRalphy

VDoom1 wrote: »

There seems to be conflicting reports when or if the companions bash at all. So if nothing else the bash mechanic for companions should be improved upon. It should not be a random coin toss if a companion will perform an interrupt or not.

I stopped using companions a while ago. Just seemed like they were dead moments after any battle had begun. Cause of death 99% of the time, not avoiding the big red stuff/AOE.

There's nothing to improve upon when it comes to the bash mechanic. If the target the companion is focused on is interruptable, they will bash/interrupt automaticlly. If you spend any time in IA with a companion you get ample opportunity to see it in action. As soon as an enemy starts to emit the red spidey-sense aura, if your companion is currently focused/targeted on it then the companion will bash if they're in range. It's more noticeable with companions built to tank, because they're already right there in the target's face, so they're always going to be in range.

Heck, if we're both focused on the same target, more often than not I find that my companion interrupts them much quicker than I ever could. I will just barely register the spidey-sense before Azandar smacks them with a bash before my fingers even twitch

Amottica

no

said no one ever wrote: »

show previous quotes

Amottica wrote: »

No. Not at all and if Zenimax stands by logic on this it will never happen.

First, for a companion or pet to effectively use bash to interrupt something that needs to be interrupted, they would need access to the game information and then be programmed to time it perfectly. That does not happen on the player side since we still have to figure out when to bash, even if we have an add-on that warns us we will need to bash soon.


Second, and it follows the first, interrupting is an essential skill every player needs to learn to be reasonably helpful. I have come across melee players well into earning CP that insisted they did not have an interrupt. Having pets and companions play more of the game for us will just make that worse.

Again, every one of us needs to learn to interrupt and watch for the tells for when to do it.

You're missing the point. Like with crimson mother the player can not interrupt themselves as they are pinned and need someone to interrupt for them or they die. And the companions do have information already that the player doesn't, for example in another spot of the spire of the crimson coin, theres a boss, i forget the name, he disappears and you have to figure out which one is the decoy and which one is the real boss and bash him yourself (player isn't pinned here) and the player could go to a decoy but the companion always runs to the real boss and not the decoy every time. The companion being computer generated sees no decoy that the player would see.

Is the Crimson Mother a group event boss?. Invite someone to join in and interrupt. Further, we are not talking about an interrupt but having the game tell the companion which target needs to be interrupted vs just having an interrupt. That seems like a step towards having the game play itself for us.

said no one ever

yes

so i just got around to crimson coin again with Mirri and she has a one hand and a shield and she is def NOT bashing crimson mother. I have died 2x and she's not bashing when i need it or even drawing taunt. Worthless.