Why can't we nerf Rush of Agony?

Vaqual · February 26

i11ionward wrote: »

I believe that RoA should receive some changes, such as:
Fixing the desynchronization and positioning bug

Increasing the cooldown duration (in my opinion, 12-15 seconds would be sufficient)

A clear and obvious telegraph (similar to Dark Convergence)

Other than that, I agree with @Decimus that nerfing RoA will have little impact on ball groups. If a ball group is currently 100% annoying, then with the RoA nerf, it will still be around 95%. Buff stacking, shield stacking, heal stacking, and Snow Treaders won't go anywhere with the RoA nerf, and these issues are far more significant than RoA. The only difference is that RoA is just the most visible problem—it's essentially a smoke screen.

Forgive me if that sounds confrontational, but this is the exact attitude that leads to the accumulation of all of these issues. You will find at least one player that would put forward the same argument with a different priority order. Giving up on balancing and fixing individual problems because there are other issues is not going to get us anywhere. The issues that you highlighted are valid, but RoA in its current state is far from being a smoke screen.

Elrond87 · February 26

RaikaNA wrote: »

Cuwen wrote: »

So, we get one great heal with Ulfsild's Contingency, and ESO nerfs it in 2 weeks (not exaggerating). But Rush of Agony has been OP for months, and ESO has done nothing. I'm tired of your obvious bias against healers, ESO.

ZOS refuses to touch any sets that Ballgroups uses because some of them are streamers.. Gotta make sure that they're happy with lots of viewers on their Twitch channels so they encourage these ballgroup streamers to continue farming causal PVP players with broken sets like Rush of Agony.

lots of viewers? even goldeneye n64 game has more twitch viewers than this game

xylena_lazarow · February 26

i11ionward wrote: »

If a ball group is currently 100% annoying, then with the RoA nerf, it will still be around 95%

Without RoA, I can run around and through ball groups as long as I get out when they're about to bomb. Even if I get chunked, I can still get away, I'm not going to die instantly unless I stand there like a deer in headlights.

Why does this matter? Because there are occasionally opportunities to get in their face and separate one of them from the ball, stun them and zerg them down. Few ball groups play perfectly 100% of the time.

With RoA, I need to stay sweaty focused on being 41m away at all times, one positioning mistake and I'm dead instantly. Attempting to get up close to the ball is suicidal. Counterplay is extremely restricted. The ball group certainly won't die instantly if they make a mistake, but I will if that pull touches me. Who wants to play like this? Nobody.

In the before-times, individual players could actually threaten ball groups with siege rotation, bombs, or by leading zergers. Ball groups would even put certain individuals on KOS lists, not for salt, but for threat. With RoA they're not just nigh unkillable, but now every player within a 41m radius is just an npc trash mob to them, regardless of skill.

If it makes no difference to you, then it's sad you never got to see when it would've.

Thumbless_Bot · February 26

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

i11ionward wrote: »

If a ball group is currently 100% annoying, then with the RoA nerf, it will still be around 95%

Without RoA, I can run around and through ball groups as long as I get out when they're about to bomb. Even if I get chunked, I can still get away, I'm not going to die instantly unless I stand there like a deer in headlights.

Why does this matter? Because there are occasionally opportunities to get in their face and separate one of them from the ball, stun them and zerg them down. Few ball groups play perfectly 100% of the time.

With RoA, I need to stay sweaty focused on being 41m away at all times, one positioning mistake and I'm dead instantly. Attempting to get up close to the ball is suicidal. Counterplay is extremely restricted. The ball group certainly won't die instantly if they make a mistake, but I will if that pull touches me. Who wants to play like this? Nobody.

In the before-times, individual players could actually threaten ball groups with siege rotation, bombs, or by leading zergers. Ball groups would even put certain individuals on KOS lists, not for salt, but for threat. With RoA they're not just nigh unkillable, but now every player within a 41m radius is just an npc trash mob to them, regardless of skill.

If it makes no difference to you, then it's sad you never got to see when it would've.

I'd love to see a documentary on ball groups narrated by David Attenborough.

Edit: actually all personas would be funny...

The 1vXer

The zergling

The small grouper

The pve-er

Alchimiste1 · February 26

Respectfully decimus, rush of agony is over performing.

There is no other set that has such a big impact on the battlefield. I don’t know about bgs nor do I care about them but in cyro that set is problematic.

1) Yes you can block it, but there are problems with that. If a ROA user gap closes into someone that is not you and that is not in your peripherals there is no way to tell you are going to get ROA.

2) it’s an aoe pull with a huge radius. Bigger than any other aoe set. Sometimes it feels like you get yoinked from narnia because of the way the game calculates who is actually in range.

3) Why on earth does it not apply CC immunity ? You can literally chain pulls and stun lock people.

At the very least the visual indicator (the chains) should appear right as someone gap closes not 1.2 seconds after. AND it should apply cc immunity. Being pulled into a fear is not good gameplay. I just personally think the game would be more enjoyable without that set.

olsborg · February 26

Why not nerf relequen for pvp? Theres like 100 questions we could ask to be nerfed, but they rarely do get nerfed, if and when they usually get not only nerfed, but destroyed.

xylena_lazarow · February 26

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

If he is a noob, then it doesn't really matter what killed him, hu? He would have died to everything and rage quit too.

Are noobs blaming Rallying Cry? No. They're not even blaming MDW anymore.

The skill barrier for countering RoA is artificially high compared to normal combat, because it breaks normal cc rules (on top of being demanding on your reflexes and timing). So yes, there are *many* situations where a noob would survive if not for Rushing Agony violating normal rules. To add insult to injury, it's not even a skill, it's an off-gcd gear proc, that is also very much the opposite of being skill demanding to pilot.

RealLoveBVB · February 26

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

If he is a noob, then it doesn't really matter what killed him, hu? He would have died to everything and rage quit too.

Are noobs blaming Rallying Cry? No. They're not even blaming MDW anymore.

The skill barrier for countering RoA is artificially high compared to normal combat, because it breaks normal cc rules (on top of being demanding on your reflexes and timing). So yes, there are *many* situations where a noob would survive if not for Rushing Agony violating normal rules. To add insult to injury, it's not even a skill, it's an off-gcd gear proc, that is also very much the opposite of being skill demanding to pilot.

Even if RoA would follow cc rules, how exactly would have the noob survived? He would have been still pulled and killed.

Decimus · February 26

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Respectfully decimus, rush of agony is over performing.

There is no other set that has such a big impact on the battlefield. I don’t know about bgs nor do I care about them but in cyro that set is problematic.

1) Yes you can block it, but there are problems with that. If a ROA user gap closes into someone that is not you and that is not in your peripherals there is no way to tell you are going to get ROA.

2) it’s an aoe pull with a huge radius. Bigger than any other aoe set. Sometimes it feels like you get yoinked from narnia because of the way the game calculates who is actually in range.

3) Why on earth does it not apply CC immunity ? You can literally chain pulls and stun lock people.

At the very least the visual indicator (the chains) should appear right as someone gap closes not 1.2 seconds after. AND it should apply cc immunity. Being pulled into a fear is not good gameplay. I just personally think the game would be more enjoyable without that set.

There's some things they can do better with the set, 100%... but I'm still going to stick to my assessment that it is just a smoke screen to the real issues which would be the buff sets.

After all, you can get pulled into a CC if you make a mistake (yes, that mistake arguably could be more difficult to make), but the reason you don't get to keep playing after making a small mistake is the amount of damage the ball groups accumulate from the buff sets.

The reason you can't try to bomb them back when it's your turn is also the buff sets - I can pull multiple people with RoA (since ball group players for sure don't know how to block tap), land an unblocked Tether with 500 ulti and... Barely scratch the health bars as they're crit immune and armor capped due to buff sets.

But sticking to RoA, there are a few things they can do to make it more fun to play against:
1. Better visual cue for the pull if you're not the target of the gap closer - dark con has this and still works just fine.
2. Pull to gap closer location, not to player - due to positional desync you can have someone gap close far behind you outside of your peripheral, sprint forward and pull you back. If the pull was to the gap close location, you'd be out of range by the time it pulls. Basically the game has a hard time calculating moving radiuses while it deals a lot better with static ones.
3. They could design more counter sets to pulls. I've died more times during this PvP event due to getting pulled out of position mid dodge roll by a DK chain than due to RoA. And no, not saying DK chain is op or anything.

These would fix most of the issues... I don't agree with making this set boring with some CC immunity though since the unique "rule breaker" aspect is what makes it possible to build around.

forum_gpt · February 26

silky_soft wrote: »

ROA doesn't care about los or height or target limits. It doesn't give you cc immunity. When you are chain pulled you lose control of gcd. So your effectively interupt and cc for that time.

Yes, this is the only problem with ROA—people exploiting the set. Outside of the exploit, the set isn't OP. To counter it, simply hold block.

xylena_lazarow · February 26

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Did you just say, that RoA is the reason why ball groups are unkillable? ... Even if RoA would follow cc rules, how exactly would have the noob survived? He would have been still pulled and killed.

The threat of instant death in a wide radius is functional wide radius area denial, which denies even more avenues of already limited counterplay, indirectly making them much harder to kill, yes.

Under normal rules, the noob would break free from the pull, then at least have a chance to do something they're familiar with, probably roll spamming or block healing, or be able to learn those base tactics after a few deaths against a gear proc that's annoying but at least in line with the rest of the game.

If they have to learn to pilot around double stuns on top of everything else, they leave the match feeling like they got cheesed by weird mechanics, not outplayed. That's how this PvP loses new players.

RealLoveBVB · February 26

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

Did you just say, that RoA is the reason why ball groups are unkillable? ... Even if RoA would follow cc rules, how exactly would have the noob survived? He would have been still pulled and killed.

Under normal rules, the noob would break free from the pull, then at least have a chance to do something they're familiar with, probably roll spamming or block healing, or be able to learn those base tactics after a few deaths against a gear proc that's annoying but at least in line with the rest of the game.

Uhm... so you want to make RoA stronger, if you add an additional stun? Or from what do they have to break free? If they are stunned, then they are dead anyway.

If you mean, that a additional stun is casted, then no- even this isn't needed.
Watch my video examples again. No Fear is needed, just a ulti and spammable after the pull.

xylena_lazarow · February 26

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

additional stun

The pull itself is functionally a stun. It denies control of your character for at least a full gcd.

Then it repositions you, so that you can be stunned again, and are badly out of position if you do survive.

RealLoveBVB wrote: »

just a ulti and spammable after the pull

Behold. This is the skill required to pilot Rush of Agony. This is not in line for the skill required to counter it.

katanagirl1 · February 27

This thread is giving me flashbacks to the Grim Focus thread.

I hope it does not suffer the same fate - neglect.

SalamanNZ · February 27

RoA is not OP. It's damn annoying. I get frustrated when I'm about to kill a glass cannon and I get pulled away by a DK jumping at a teammate and proccing the set

aetherial_heavenn · February 27

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Zos has stated they are taking a look at this set for adjustments. I am paraphrasing, but they have more or less acknowledged that there are issues with this set. They are looking at position adjustments and reducing the frequency that this set can pull you.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/673444/is-it-fair-gameplay-to-use-use-rush-of-agony-to-pull-players-long-distances-and-through-objects#latest

The lack of animation indicators, particularly for those of us with high latency, the ignoring of cc immunity and the fact it pulls you thru structures are my issues in Cyro. Positional desync is also a huge problem. These are unavoidable by even experienced players.
The coordinated use by groups could be countered if the set 'played' by ZoS own rules.

Amottica · February 27

Elrond87 wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

Cuwen wrote: »

So, we get one great heal with Ulfsild's Contingency, and ESO nerfs it in 2 weeks (not exaggerating). But Rush of Agony has been OP for months, and ESO has done nothing. I'm tired of your obvious bias against healers, ESO.

ZOS refuses to touch any sets that Ballgroups uses because some of them are streamers.. Gotta make sure that they're happy with lots of viewers on their Twitch channels so they encourage these ballgroup streamers to continue farming causal PVP players with broken sets like Rush of Agony.

lots of viewers? even goldeneye n64 game has more twitch viewers than this game

I agree. It would not make sense for Zenimax to refuse to change something for a few streamers.

Besides, Zenimax has stated they are reviewing this set. The link below is to a comment she made in a recent thread, and her comment is very official.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8269426/#Comment_8269426

Also, the change may not be to the set bonus since it requires at least one other action to become the issue I expect people are up in arms about.

TechMaybeHic · February 27

Even if it provided CC immunity after it's pull like it should, and was no longer exploitable; it's still doing more damage than other sets, and a much shorter cool down than other mass AOE pull sets. It's way out of budget

xylena_lazarow · February 27

Decimus wrote: »

If these groups were to lose their AoE pull they'd just run a DK with undodgeable spammable chain pull and Farstrider - anyone getting yoinked just gets nuked instantly.

Dunno how I just saw this now but yes that's exactly what they should have to do. Wanna cheese solo kills? Waste bar slots on inefficient single target pulls and a comp slot on a suboptimal niche set.

Nice, you're now a meme of a ball group, like that [redacted] guild on [redacted] faction trying to wipe a whole zerg outside a trikeep one at a time with DK chain spam following every 12v1 Rushing Agony attempt.

Thumbless_Bot · February 27

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Zos has stated they are taking a look at this set for adjustments. I am paraphrasing, but they have more or less acknowledged that there are issues with this set. They are looking at position adjustments and reducing the frequency that this set can pull you.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/673444/is-it-fair-gameplay-to-use-use-rush-of-agony-to-pull-players-long-distances-and-through-objects#latest

The lack of animation indicators, particularly for those of us with high latency, the ignoring of cc immunity and the fact it pulls you thru structures are my issues in Cyro. Positional desync is also a huge problem. These are unavoidable by even experienced players.
The coordinated use by groups could be countered if the set 'played' by ZoS own rules.

100%

ercknn · March 1

I want to bump this thread because of how big an issue this set is to all forms of PvP

This set is a bane on PvP. Just make it a CC like DC and be done with it.

Multiple nb groups spam this and tether ultimate on 1 player is cringe and the skill ceiling is so bad on this set. No counterplay when used by groups on 1vX persons.
When 1 player RoAs it’s an easy counter.
When 2 do it with full balorgh/fire ulfsilds you dump and spin to win your chances are less to 3 nbs doing this zero unless you are a tank and no damage.

1vX’ing dies from this set when spammed by the Zerg on skilled players.

This set is bringing further toxicity into PvP and reducing player creativity in set building.

Might as well nerf polar wind cross healing, northern storm/balorgh/vamp cheese as well; please look into that. Groups will RoA you and 3 wardens will turtle pop their full balorgh northern storm for insta death.
There is absolutely 0 counter to this set up.
Even if you are an invinca block necro tank the warden charm skill will get you along with RoA spam ulti dump.

Cross healing (mostly polar wind), RoA, Sorc shield sizes, and full balorgh/vamp Northern storms are ruining PvP through exclusive Meta play styles.
This is normally okay but ZoS hasn’t updated this since changes were made to Vamp; actually made warden stronger.

I PvP pretty often and these cheese sets; play styles are dominating and ruining the PvP experience by having no counter play.
Please make counterplay or nerf the sets.
PvP is fun, but is becoming less so and stale the More and More players discover, optimize and abuse these sets.

DeadlySerious · March 1

Decimus wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

WaywardArgonian wrote: »

RoA can be annoying for the specific pull + Fear combo, and it can be doubly annoying in lag, but if more people learned how to have situational awareness and hold block when it matters, the set would already be much less of a problem. I rarely get pulled by this set and when I do I can usually identify my mistake that led to it.

When a combo strat like that overpowers the meta in other more serious competitive games like Magic, they tend to ban one of the halves of the combo, usually targeting the one that sees no play outside the combo, like the creature that would repeatedly steal an opponent's stuff, or the spell that could very randomly end the game on Turn 2.

Fear stuns are seriously not an issue on their own, they're healthy counterplay to a variety of annoyances. That leaves the other half of the combo, Rushing Agony, which sees no play outside this specific build and strat, yet dominates the open world meta when it appears, choking out any other offensive strat for optimized comp groups.

The barrier is system knowledge, logistics, and access to comp groups, not combat skill. There is an unusually high combat skill barrier to countering Rushing Agony. The combat skill barrier for piloting Rushing Agony is unusually lower than every other form of bombing, you enjoy a simple short rotation with automation replacing awareness and timing.

So if it makes piloting comp groups easier, and countering them harder, the battlefield is now artificially tilted in favor of comp group tryhards, who get to enjoy reduced combat skill demands and abuse of rule-breaking mechanics, while casuals have to work twice as hard in an already hard matchup, need to learn entirely new counterplay tactics beyond "just block bro" and leave the fight feeling like they got cheesed by rule-breaking mechanics, not outplayed.

You now have 12 guys gloating, and 60 guys considering quitting PvP. Look at this place outside Mayhem. Dead empty 20 hours a day. Where did all the zergs go? They quit because garbage like Rushing Agony makes large scale PvP unfun for the players who make large scale PvP happen in the first place. Who do the 12 farm now? Npcs and doors?

The reason really isn't Rush of Agony though... Ball groups have been ruining PvP long before RoA even existed.

Again, I outlined on my first post what the actual issue is and why it can feel the set requires no skill to utilize etc (spoiler: nothing these people do requires skill at that point) - you're fighting people with literally twice the damage and tankiness that they should have.

The set can be used on a solo player as well, but the difference is that you've got to actually understand timings and what buttons to press.

It actually rewards good understanding of the game and mechanics when utilized to it's full effect - few people know for example that you can guaranteed land a bow proc since the pull is undodgeable (but if you bow proc too early it gets dodged while pull doesn't so timing matters), or that you can run it on back bar, weapon swap wait 100ms instead of spamming tether directly after swap & ulti stun people who get pulled rather than just whomever you gap closed.

Most solo players don't really get that out of the ordinary results with it... another reason I feel like pointing out that it is pretty much just a smoke screen for the underlying issues that have been making ball groups gradually more and more problematic, long before RoA was ever a thing even.

I also saw immovable pots brought up earlier in this thread as something RoA would counter - these actually prevent RoA pull as well, just as any other source of CC immunity... i.e. RoA itself doesn't proc CC immunity, but still respects it if someone has it.

RoA is a huge part of the problem with the current meta in Cyrodiil. Free pull sets shouldn't exist at all, let alone a set with essentially zero warning, pulls from WAY outside the stated range, and has an outrageously short cool down. RoA automates the game for ball groups. They don't even have to look at their positioning anymore. They just get a massive free bomb every 8 seconds or less if more than one person in the ball is wearing RoA.

DeadlySerious · March 1

i11ionward wrote: »

I believe that RoA should receive some changes, such as:
Fixing the desynchronization and positioning bug

Increasing the cooldown duration (in my opinion, 12-15 seconds would be sufficient)

A clear and obvious telegraph (similar to Dark Convergence)

Other than that, I agree with @Decimus that nerfing RoA will have little impact on ball groups. If a ball group is currently 100% annoying, then with the RoA nerf, it will still be around 95%. Buff stacking, shield stacking, heal stacking, and Snow Treaders won't go anywhere with the RoA nerf, and these issues are far more significant than RoA. The only difference is that RoA is just the most visible problem—it's essentially a smoke screen.

At the very least RoA should provide CC immunity too. The best fix is to add the "to monsters only" qualification to the set.

VoxAdActa · March 1

I'm very tired of RoA. So very, very tired.

I've tried blocking, I've tried rolling out of the area, I've tried potions and teleports and all sorts of things. Nothing helps. Once the pull from RoA starts, it's death. I did manage to escape once, barely, by triggering a health+HOT potion and popping the Reviving Barrier ult, which I was lucky to have up at the time. I managed to survive the first Tether, and I guess the second guy with Tether lagged or something, because there was a small window of time between the ults that allowed me to sprint away with a 30% health.

Given the number of times I've died to RoA, in spite of all my attempts at counterplay (other than "stay away" and "don't repair doors ever"), that one success is kind of like the Milwaukee Protocol for treating rabies. It worked once, ever, so it's better than literally anything else we've tried, but it was probably a weird accident of luck because we can't get it to work twice.

Bombers/VD is easy to prevent. Someone has to get close to do it. Ground AoEs, see invis potions, revealing flare, etc., usually give enough warning that we can do something to help increase our chances of survival. RoA triggering from teleports, from stupid-far away, negates all that. There's literally no counterplay except "get more health/res, brah."

Which is why I'm building another character into an extra-chonky brawler, to see if that works. Because making the current slogfest tank meta even more extreme is absolutely what will make AvA more fun, right?

ercknn · March 1

VoxAdActa wrote: »

I'm very tired of RoA. So very, very tired.

I've tried blocking, I've tried rolling out of the area, I've tried potions and teleports and all sorts of things. Nothing helps. Once the pull from RoA starts, it's death. I did manage to escape once, barely, by triggering a health+HOT potion and popping the Reviving Barrier ult, which I was lucky to have up at the time. I managed to survive the first Tether, and I guess the second guy with Tether lagged or something, because there was a small window of time between the ults that allowed me to sprint away with a 30% health.

Given the number of times I've died to RoA, in spite of all my attempts at counterplay (other than "stay away" and "don't repair doors ever"), that one success is kind of like the Milwaukee Protocol for treating rabies. It worked once, ever, so it's better than literally anything else we've tried, but it was probably a weird accident of luck because we can't get it to work twice.

Bombers/VD is easy to prevent. Someone has to get close to do it. Ground AoEs, see invis potions, revealing flare, etc., usually give enough warning that we can do something to help increase our chances of survival. RoA triggering from teleports, from stupid-far away, negates all that. There's literally no counterplay except "get more health/res, brah."

Which is why I'm building another character into an extra-chonky brawler, to see if that works. Because making the current slogfest tank meta even more extreme is absolutely what will make AvA more fun, right?

I have max resistances on all my damage PvP toons. Required for 1vX unless on sorc.
It doesn’t matter when you’re playing in Cyro or IC, and 3 or more nb; wardens tether/northern storm ulti simultaneously.

Sure you can block the first RoA but when the other 2 go off you have to block those too..

AND if you have stand block those the northern storm ulti AoE or tether bomb will guarantee hit you. Even with block full resistances on ice staff or sword & board you will get resources drained and die. You can’t lose LoS unless you’re luckily positioned

If you try to roll dodge you get pulled in by the other tethers. AoE’s are undodgable so that counterplay doesn’t work.

All you can do is get more friends and optimize; outnumber the other group with more RoA and cross heal botting.

If there is counterplay to all this from the Devs or from other players please enlighten me.

xylena_lazarow · March 1

ercknn wrote: »

If there is counterplay to all this from the Devs or from other players please enlighten me.

Ideally a superior ball group of your own (yes this makes it broken).

If you're a random, stay at your 41m max range to account for the 22m gap closer, 12m pull radius, and a few extra for lag. Left click a siege and occasionally drop a meteor or negate or whatever. Stay focused on them or die.

If you're a sweatlord random, you can maybe do some fancy blocking with perfect positioning like Decimus talks about, but there's only payoff if the ball is bad, not worth risking instant death being that close to any ball that's good.

The RoA user clicks 2-3 skills then spams. Solo bombers usually die, but comp group bombers have a million heals on them, minimal awareness and timing required at that point to blow up multiple randoms with ease.

This is godawful PvP. Who the hell wants this? Not zergs, not balls. Empty Cyro outside Mayhem.

ercknn · March 1

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ercknn wrote: »

If there is counterplay to all this from the Devs or from other players please enlighten me.

Ideally a superior ball group of your own (yes this makes it broken).

If you're a random, stay at your 41m max range to account for the 22m gap closer, 12m pull radius, and a few extra for lag. Left click a siege and occasionally drop a meteor or negate or whatever. Stay focused on them or die.

If you're a sweatlord random, you can maybe do some fancy blocking with perfect positioning like Decimus talks about, but there's only payoff if the ball is bad, not worth risking instant death being that close to any ball that's good.

The RoA user clicks 2-3 skills then spams. Solo bombers usually die, but comp group bombers have a million heals on them, minimal awareness and timing required at that point to blow up multiple randoms with ease.

This is godawful PvP. Who the hell wants this? Not zergs, not balls. Empty Cyro outside Mayhem.

I figured as much, thank you for your response.

I made a bomber and got tired of it after the first couple days.
1vX’ing has an extremely high ceiling that has an adaptive play style vs an automated bomber who just does the same thing over and over again and only adapts based on positioning before executing a bomb.
Back when there was no way to group players up w/o dark convergence a VD; plague break bomber was a nice counter to ball groups and had no affect on the single player.

Now you will see ball groups chase down solo players; 1vX’ers and pull them in with RoA full am insta kill.

Cyro has become ball group dominated and players seem to find satisfaction in this play style which only furthers deters others from wanting to engage.
The irony is that a lot of these players have been playing the game for 100’s to 1000’s of hours and still prefer this low skill ceiling of play.
These same players will post videos of the amazing bombs they did acting like it was an achievement when now days they are simply carried by RoA and automated play styles. This further encourages other players; newer players to adopt this play style due to the low skill ceiling and great satisfaction of “bombing”, killing many players at once when once it was a higher ceiling w/o RoA carry.

The sad state of PvP can be further discussed but I will stop here.
I will still play occasionally but am getting to a point where my play style is the outlier and I will find more satisfaction in playing other games.

Poncho28 · March 1

Why not? You all have asked ZOS to nerf everything else for the last 10 years, might as well be perfect.

Nomadic_Atmoran · March 2

Cuwen wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

Cuwen wrote: »

So, we get one great heal with Ulfsild's Contingency, and ESO nerfs it in 2 weeks (not exaggerating). But Rush of Agony has been OP for months, and ESO has done nothing. I'm tired of your obvious bias against healers, ESO.

ZOS refuses to touch any sets that Ballgroups uses because some of them are streamers.. Gotta make sure that they're happy with lots of viewers on their Twitch channels so they encourage these ballgroup streamers to continue farming causal PVP players with broken sets like Rush of Agony.

Wait really? When I've watched announcements videos from them in the past, they say how they're introducing a new set to try and combat the ball groups. Although, the sets usually make the ball groups worse... Am I being a downer in now thinking that they're doing the exact opposite of what they're saying, then?

Ask yourself how is it consistently for 10 years PvP can somehow continue to be in such a rotten state with multiple promises to address x, y and z year after year and somehow continuously come up in a similar or worse state every time? You don't go a decade with PvP being in several states of disarray and unplayability without it being intentional or gross incompetence.

RebornV3x · March 2

I don't want it nerfed myself just fixed the set breaks the game and doesn't follow the rules its crazy how this set hasn't been fixed.

It ignores CC immunity if another player has Rush of Agony they can pull you right back in even stacking the effect if they do it back to back maybe a bug?
The AOE pull says 12m but the red circle is like 10m or maybe the pull is more than 13m? and the circle is 12m something seems off here? So you don't really know how far away the safe area is
There's no way to roll dodge out and I can't think of any other set or ability that can reliably pull you out of a roll dodge.

All you can do is block, have a damage shield and pray you live.
maybe get lucky and drink an immove pot before the pull is the only counter. On my non sorcerer characters I hate Rush of Agony.

Recently a guild mate of mine recommend the set Nibenay Bay Battlereeve which gives you a damage shield if your forcefully pulled. Haven't really looked into building around this set since I don't pvp and when I do its very casual now days.