A message to new players wanting to do end game content

T_agg

soulreaper1213 wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

I do acknowledge trial expectations actually. What I'm talking about isn't that, what I'm talking about is when you make one mistake you get yelled at or berated yet their close friends or people that they want to look good in front of make mistakes they joke about their mistakes, what I'm talking about is when you complain about being bullied by members of their officer team you actually get treated worse than if you hadn't said anything about the situation and kept on tolerating it, what I'm talking about is when people preach inclusivity yet call people *** in vc's and make them feel like they are less than human, what I'm talking about is they preach don't be racist yet use racial slurs in vc and try to hide it, what I'm talking about is if you don't kiss their ass, if you don't play their game of high school politics they ostracize you, treat you horribly then try to act kind and nice around others. What I'm talking about is jealous women and men who see you as a threat or an annoyance and try to get you kicked from servers. It has been done to me throughout the years as well as others. What I'm talking about is genuine toxicity, not gatekeeping.

This post was just meant for people or perhaps anyone that is reluctant to go to end game and I wanted to let them know just because their are a few terrible human beings that do these things doesn't mean everyone is. Please excuse my crass language, but I just want to convey the weight of the situations I've encountered and have seen happen.

You have been an on-and-off raider in ESO discords for a while. You, yourself have participated in the jokes and trash talk, and based on many raiders experience with you, have gone too far with them. Yet you somehow still miss the point of the raiding community.

This is not an office job, many people are not going to have this "professional decorum" that you are weirdly expecting from the community. It's a group of internet strangers playing together for pure enjoyment. There is going to be playful ribbing, trash talking, crude jokes, the whole nine. When something goes too far, and your first response is to "report it to the officer team", you have already lost the plot. An overwhelming majority of ESO raiders are normal people. They get into the moment, get heated, locked in, and may say or do something that is not welcome in that "professional" setting. However that does not automatically demerit them as a bully or a gatekeeper.

So what do you do? A majority of these people are adults with the free will and the ability to make our own choices. You can respectfully remove yourself as you don't want to be associated with them. You can directly, concisely and non-aggressively confront the person and explain how you felt about the situation. But jumping to the concept of "reporting to the officer team" can and will be seen as odd, passive-aggressive and not meeting the expectations of behavior in some of ESO's raiding community.

So I will leave you with this. Remove yourself from the behavioral high horse. You are sufficiently self-aware to know you don't belong there. Don't contribute to the false claim that ESO's raiding community is filled with toxicity, bullies and gatekeepers. Without the raiders who are the epitome of the exact opposite, you yourself would not be a member.

Honestly...it's perplexing that this is your response, yet you are saying that I am in fact missing the point of the raiding community. I genuinely didn't know that wanting human decency equaled professional decorum as you put it. From my understanding, we play a game to have fun correct? I went back to my previous responses and the original post I made; no where did i mention professional decorum. All i mentioned was very toxic things that have happened to me as well as others and you stated that "a majority of these people are adults with free will and the ability to make our own choices." while maybe not directly in response it was something that you stated. So if anything this actually reinforces that these adults are actively choosing to be toxic.

My goal for posting this topic is to say: despite the very real toxicity of endgame, it shouldn't put you off from trying to find your place in said community. I never once said anything about gatekeeping it was actually others in this thread that mentioned that. If uh reporting to an officer team about how you are mistreated is seen as odd and passive aggressive then in my opinion you should reevaluate yourself as a person. What do you want people to do? Just sit there? Just literally sit there and be mistreated? I'm just kind of baffled at this response to be honest. You can only talk things out so much.

Again to reiterate my last response, you are entirely missing the point of the original post. I never said the eso community is filled with toxicity, I said it's there and how it shouldn't discourage them from raiding in more challenging content. Yes I have made mistakes i understand that, that's literally why I made the post...quite point blank to help raiders trying to navigate in this community and to find their place. I am in no way, shape or form promoting professional decorum, all I was stating is play the game, have fun and find your way.

Your statement about raiders are normal people...since when did I say they aren't? Again all I stated was they shouldn't be discouraged from end game raiding. Could I have worded it better, yeah I could have and that was my mistake, but I think we should have realistic civilized discussions about these kinds of topics.

Your perception of me as a person is incredibly flawed and reading your responses here as well, I can see there is a lot of accusing and hostility in your words masquerading as a logical response. I am not on a behavioral high horse what so ever...I am simply telling people, toxicity is there just like everywhere else in the world. Please don't twist my words.

I have made mistakes and i do live with regrets that i wish i could go back in time and change, however please don't attack my character when I merely just want people to find their way in this game. I'll keep being my weird self I guess and promote human decency.

p00tx wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

soulreaper1213 wrote: »

Something this post and a lot of those who consider the members of the ESO raiding community as "gatekeepers" do not acknowledge and do so willingly: Is the idea of expectations in raiding and confusing it with toxicity and the aforementioned gatekeeping.

When you are a member of a group doing trial content, it is expected that every member pulls their weight. This is the minimum expectation. In order to complete trial content you need to do damage, and don't die. That bar is very low for normal trials, increases by a decent amount for veteran trials, increases by a large amount for veteran hard mode trials, and increases by an even larger amount for trifecta and score-pushing trial content.

Doing a trial on group finder is a very underutilized way to complete trial content. Rarely will you find hard modes done, but you can easily find all kinds of normal trial content and sometimes veteran content. These runs usually have very low expectations because there are minimal ways to vet the players they intake and therefore aren't as quick, easy and clean in execution.

ESO Raiding discords are the premiere method in which you can complete trial content. Anywhere from bare bones veteran trainers to teach the mechanics, to some super sweaty trial runs. These have higher expectations than the group finder but for a very good reason: They strive for better results. At the low level, these bare bones veteran trainers are not so they just get the clear. They are to teach all the players on how to handle the trials mechanics so that the next time the player finds themself in that trial, they are more confident. Quite literally the opposite of gatekeeping.

And if you refuse to use discord for trial content. Then you are willingly limiting your experience in ESO raiding. There are many super end game raiders who don't use their mic, but they're able to listen to the raid lead and that is most important aspect.

TLDR: Do trial content because it's fun with expectations that match your experience. Show up to training runs with the intent to learn. Show up to a public non-trainer with decently optimized gear and skills and the knowledge of how to do your role at a basic level. People are not toxic gatekeepers because they feel that you are not fit for the intention of that group.

I do acknowledge trial expectations actually. What I'm talking about isn't that, what I'm talking about is when you make one mistake you get yelled at or berated yet their close friends or people that they want to look good in front of make mistakes they joke about their mistakes, what I'm talking about is when you complain about being bullied by members of their officer team you actually get treated worse than if you hadn't said anything about the situation and kept on tolerating it, what I'm talking about is when people preach inclusivity yet call people *** in vc's and make them feel like they are less than human, what I'm talking about is they preach don't be racist yet use racial slurs in vc and try to hide it, what I'm talking about is if you don't kiss their ass, if you don't play their game of high school politics they ostracize you, treat you horribly then try to act kind and nice around others. What I'm talking about is jealous women and men who see you as a threat or an annoyance and try to get you kicked from servers. It has been done to me throughout the years as well as others. What I'm talking about is genuine toxicity, not gatekeeping.

This post was just meant for people or perhaps anyone that is reluctant to go to end game and I wanted to let them know just because their are a few terrible human beings that do these things doesn't mean everyone is. Please excuse my crass language, but I just want to convey the weight of the situations I've encountered and have seen happen.

You're not wrong about the occasional bullying in the community, because the people playing are, after all, 100% human. It's going to happen in any social group in any game, and isn't specific to endgame PvE in ESO. That being said, making this post and saying the things you've said are far from productive ways to bridge those gaps and mend any bridges. This feels very passive aggressive and indirectly insulting, and is failing to acknowledge the parts you've played in being ostracized from the community. I'm not going to bust you out here for your behavior, because that's also not appropriate to air in public, nor is it going to be productive, but I'd strongly suggest being more introspective and self-reflective before making a post like this. We can all do better.

This may feel very passive aggressive and indirectly insulting to you, however that wasn't my intention. Nothing passive aggressive about this post at all. I again have made many mistakes and want to grow as a person but i also made this post to again help them find their path as raiders in this community. Please don't misconstrue my words and what I'm trying to convey.

soulreaper1213

T_agg wrote: »

Honestly...it's perplexing that this is your response, yet you are saying that I am in fact missing the point of the raiding community. I genuinely didn't know that wanting human decency equaled professional decorum as you put it. From my understanding, we play a game to have fun correct? I went back to my previous responses and the original post I made; no where did i mention professional decorum. All i mentioned was very toxic things that have happened to me as well as others and you stated that "a majority of these people are adults with free will and the ability to make our own choices." while maybe not directly in response it was something that you stated. So if anything this actually reinforces that these adults are actively choosing to be toxic.

My goal for posting this topic is to say: despite the very real toxicity of endgame, it shouldn't put you off from trying to find your place in said community. I never once said anything about gatekeeping it was actually others in this thread that mentioned that. If uh reporting to an officer team about how you are mistreated is seen as odd and passive aggressive then in my opinion you should reevaluate yourself as a person. What do you want people to do? Just sit there? Just literally sit there and be mistreated? I'm just kind of baffled at this response to be honest. You can only talk things out so much.

Again to reiterate my last response, you are entirely missing the point of the original post. I never said the eso community is filled with toxicity, I said it's there and how it shouldn't discourage them from raiding in more challenging content. Yes I have made mistakes i understand that, that's literally why I made the post...quite point blank to help raiders trying to navigate in this community and to find their place. I am in no way, shape or form promoting professional decorum, all I was stating is play the game, have fun and find your way.

Your statement about raiders are normal people...since when did I say they aren't? Again all I stated was they shouldn't be discouraged from end game raiding. Could I have worded it better, yeah I could have and that was my mistake, but I think we should have realistic civilized discussions about these kinds of topics.

Your perception of me as a person is incredibly flawed and reading your responses here as well, I can see there is a lot of accusing and hostility in your words masquerading as a logical response. I am not on a behavioral high horse what so ever...I am simply telling people, toxicity is there just like everywhere else in the world. Please don't twist my words.

I have made mistakes and i do live with regrets that i wish i could go back in time and change, however please don't attack my character when I merely just want people to find their way in this game. I'll keep being my weird self I guess and promote human decency.

Denying the premise means nothing if I didn't claim you set the premise. Re-read what I said and come back.

It doesn't change the fact that you are putting this very weird facade of wanting to keep the peace and preserve human decency when in countless occasions you have behaved in the exact opposite manner within ESO raiding communities. Being intensely passive-aggressive and rewarding those who follow suit. Saying some very hateful things and just overall behavior that have gotten you banned in many large ESO raiding discords/communities.

You have capitalized on the raiders who are friendly and welcoming and simultaneously shutting the door behind you. And then to make a forum post like this explaining the bad experiences you had when it was a self-fulfilling prophecy the entire time.

All in all, just to get the point across that your experience is one shared with those who cannot take accountability, at times are actively hateful towards others, and overall bring a very uncomfortable behavior and energy to ESO raiding. Which is not needed. You claim to want to bring in more raiders, but your self-inflicted bad experiences are doing the exact opposite.

T_agg

soulreaper1213 wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

Honestly...it's perplexing that this is your response, yet you are saying that I am in fact missing the point of the raiding community. I genuinely didn't know that wanting human decency equaled professional decorum as you put it. From my understanding, we play a game to have fun correct? I went back to my previous responses and the original post I made; no where did i mention professional decorum. All i mentioned was very toxic things that have happened to me as well as others and you stated that "a majority of these people are adults with free will and the ability to make our own choices." while maybe not directly in response it was something that you stated. So if anything this actually reinforces that these adults are actively choosing to be toxic.

My goal for posting this topic is to say: despite the very real toxicity of endgame, it shouldn't put you off from trying to find your place in said community. I never once said anything about gatekeeping it was actually others in this thread that mentioned that. If uh reporting to an officer team about how you are mistreated is seen as odd and passive aggressive then in my opinion you should reevaluate yourself as a person. What do you want people to do? Just sit there? Just literally sit there and be mistreated? I'm just kind of baffled at this response to be honest. You can only talk things out so much.

Again to reiterate my last response, you are entirely missing the point of the original post. I never said the eso community is filled with toxicity, I said it's there and how it shouldn't discourage them from raiding in more challenging content. Yes I have made mistakes i understand that, that's literally why I made the post...quite point blank to help raiders trying to navigate in this community and to find their place. I am in no way, shape or form promoting professional decorum, all I was stating is play the game, have fun and find your way.

Your statement about raiders are normal people...since when did I say they aren't? Again all I stated was they shouldn't be discouraged from end game raiding. Could I have worded it better, yeah I could have and that was my mistake, but I think we should have realistic civilized discussions about these kinds of topics.

Your perception of me as a person is incredibly flawed and reading your responses here as well, I can see there is a lot of accusing and hostility in your words masquerading as a logical response. I am not on a behavioral high horse what so ever...I am simply telling people, toxicity is there just like everywhere else in the world. Please don't twist my words.

I have made mistakes and i do live with regrets that i wish i could go back in time and change, however please don't attack my character when I merely just want people to find their way in this game. I'll keep being my weird self I guess and promote human decency.

Denying the premise means nothing if I didn't claim you set the premise. Re-read what I said and come back.

It doesn't change the fact that you are putting this very weird facade of wanting to keep the peace and preserve human decency when in countless occasions you have behaved in the exact opposite manner within ESO raiding communities. Being intensely passive-aggressive and rewarding those who follow suit. Saying some very hateful things and just overall behavior that have gotten you banned in many large ESO raiding discords/communities.

You have capitalized on the raiders who are friendly and welcoming and simultaneously shutting the door behind you. And then to make a forum post like this explaining the bad experiences you had when it was a self-fulfilling prophecy the entire time.

All in all, just to get the point across that your experience is one shared with those who cannot take accountability, at times are actively hateful towards others, and overall bring a very uncomfortable behavior and energy to ESO raiding. Which is not needed. You claim to want to bring in more raiders, but your self-inflicted bad experiences are doing the exact opposite.

Denying the premise means nothing if you didn't claim i set the premise? You do realize that there can be multiple premises in an argument right? You are not only committing an ad hominem attack, but also an ad hoc fallacy. Why attack my perceived character when it offers nothing to the discussion? Again to re iterate while yes I could have worded things better I just want raiders to understand there is toxicity in end game raiding environments, I never said it was filled with, I never mentioned gatekeeping, and I wasn't being passive aggressive in my message.

Yes I understand it comes down to perception and again, that's why i posted this topic. We are adults playing an adult game and shouldn't shy away from these topics. Who I am as a person and who you perceive me to be arent the same. I'm not perfect, I am a human being as well as others playing this game. I just wanted to address a realistic topic.

I have made plenty of mistakes, I live with regrets, and to say I have a "weird facade for wanting to keep the peace and preserve human decency" is quite invalidating of the human experience and offers nothing to the original point of this post.

Not everyone is going to get along and that's fine it's a part of life and to say that my experiences are shared with those that can't take accountability just shows me that your perception of me is filled with malice and falsehoods. I don't know who you are nor do i care to know who you are, I just wanted to have a constructive discussion and to maybe help people that were reluctant to start learning more challenging forms of raiding.

Also just because you didn't claim I set the premise, doesn't mean it's false. Honestly, thank you soulreaper1213 your responses based in the grounds of emotions and your ideas of who i am rather than who i actually am might have helped further my point that there is toxicity in end game.

I hope anyone reading this thread doesn't shy away from the more challenging aspect of raiding and can find their path of what raiding means to them

Dragonnord

The OP post couldn't be further from how things really are.

The huge majority of raid guilds, groups, Discords and so are really helpful.

Toxcity exists in evey single game, so when something exists everywhere, you have to measure it for how big it is, and toxicity in TESO, compared to other games, is very, very small.
 

Soarora

Dragonnord wrote: »

The OP post couldn't be further from how things really are.

The huge majority of raid guilds, groups, Discords and so are really helpful.

Toxcity exists in evey single game, so when something exists everywhere, you have to measure it for how big it is, and toxicity in TESO, compared to other games, is very, very small.
 

Most endgame trial servers are helpful, yes, but that doesn’t mean T.agg is completely wrong either. He’s correct that there’s a maturity problem in the trial community. People taking the game way too seriously, people talking behind each others backs, messy breakups, rumors, harassment towards women, people no-showing repeatedly, etc etc, it’s not just a tiny minority, if you spend enough time around trials (on pc/na, at least) you will see an immaturity problem even though almost everyone is 25+.
There’s a balance to be had between showing people the truth (the trial community isn’t toxic elitist) without being misleading (the trial community isn’t perfect). People should try trials, but they also need to be prepared to switch servers a few times and be careful about their reputation.

Edit: by being mature yourself, not engaging too deep with people, and keeping a good reputation, you can avoid getting caught up in the middle of drama for the most part. But it will still happen unless you got super lucky and found a great group of people or never form any connections at all.

soulreaper1213

T_agg wrote: »

Denying the premise means nothing if you didn't claim i set the premise? You do realize that there can be multiple premises in an argument right? You are not only committing an ad hominem attack, but also an ad hoc fallacy. Why attack my perceived character when it offers nothing to the discussion? Again to re iterate while yes I could have worded things better I just want raiders to understand there is toxicity in end game raiding environments, I never said it was filled with, I never mentioned gatekeeping, and I wasn't being passive aggressive in my message.

Yes I understand it comes down to perception and again, that's why i posted this topic. We are adults playing an adult game and shouldn't shy away from these topics. Who I am as a person and who you perceive me to be arent the same. I'm not perfect, I am a human being as well as others playing this game. I just wanted to address a realistic topic.

I have made plenty of mistakes, I live with regrets, and to say I have a "weird facade for wanting to keep the peace and preserve human decency" is quite invalidating of the human experience and offers nothing to the original point of this post.

Not everyone is going to get along and that's fine it's a part of life and to say that my experiences are shared with those that can't take accountability just shows me that your perception of me is filled with malice and falsehoods. I don't know who you are nor do i care to know who you are, I just wanted to have a constructive discussion and to maybe help people that were reluctant to start learning more challenging forms of raiding.

Also just because you didn't claim I set the premise, doesn't mean it's false. Honestly, thank you soulreaper1213 your responses based in the grounds of emotions and your ideas of who i am rather than who i actually am might have helped further my point that there is toxicity in end game.

I hope anyone reading this thread doesn't shy away from the more challenging aspect of raiding and can find their path of what raiding means to them

You may live with these "regrets" of the things you've done in the past but it is consistent that you fall back into that behavior, if that wasn't the case your ban in these communities would have been lifted. You have put up a wall of sunshine, flowers, and rainbows to hide the fact that you have participated in and incited actions and behaviors that no decent community would ever tolerate, let alone promote.

To come on the forums and play pretend and contribute to the ill-conducive idea that the bad experiences you had in the raiding community was the fault of the community and not your own, is hypocritical beyond understanding. Very welcoming raiders and friendly people opened their arms to you to be a member of the raiding community and that allowed you to be where you are now, and they are repaid in behavior and actions of the exact opposite manner

Flowery words and a bubbly personality do not erase the damage your actions have done to the perception of raiders in the ESO community, especially for women and those feminine presenting, who already have a larger mountain to climb.

My responses have done anything but proven the exact opposite of the original post. I have been playing this game for 11 years. I know how the raiding community behaves, I know their pitfalls and I know what makes them great. Your situation is one not to draw expectations from.

T_agg

soulreaper1213 wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

Denying the premise means nothing if you didn't claim i set the premise? You do realize that there can be multiple premises in an argument right? You are not only committing an ad hominem attack, but also an ad hoc fallacy. Why attack my perceived character when it offers nothing to the discussion? Again to re iterate while yes I could have worded things better I just want raiders to understand there is toxicity in end game raiding environments, I never said it was filled with, I never mentioned gatekeeping, and I wasn't being passive aggressive in my message.

Yes I understand it comes down to perception and again, that's why i posted this topic. We are adults playing an adult game and shouldn't shy away from these topics. Who I am as a person and who you perceive me to be arent the same. I'm not perfect, I am a human being as well as others playing this game. I just wanted to address a realistic topic.

I have made plenty of mistakes, I live with regrets, and to say I have a "weird facade for wanting to keep the peace and preserve human decency" is quite invalidating of the human experience and offers nothing to the original point of this post.

Not everyone is going to get along and that's fine it's a part of life and to say that my experiences are shared with those that can't take accountability just shows me that your perception of me is filled with malice and falsehoods. I don't know who you are nor do i care to know who you are, I just wanted to have a constructive discussion and to maybe help people that were reluctant to start learning more challenging forms of raiding.

Also just because you didn't claim I set the premise, doesn't mean it's false. Honestly, thank you soulreaper1213 your responses based in the grounds of emotions and your ideas of who i am rather than who i actually am might have helped further my point that there is toxicity in end game.

I hope anyone reading this thread doesn't shy away from the more challenging aspect of raiding and can find their path of what raiding means to them

You may live with these "regrets" of the things you've done in the past but it is consistent that you fall back into that behavior, if that wasn't the case your ban in these communities would have been lifted. You have put up a wall of sunshine, flowers, and rainbows to hide the fact that you have participated in and incited actions and behaviors that no decent community would ever tolerate, let alone promote.

To come on the forums and play pretend and contribute to the ill-conducive idea that the bad experiences you had in the raiding community was the fault of the community and not your own, is hypocritical beyond understanding. Very welcoming raiders and friendly people opened their arms to you to be a member of the raiding community and that allowed you to be where you are now, and they are repaid in behavior and actions of the exact opposite manner

Flowery words and a bubbly personality do not erase the damage your actions have done to the perception of raiders in the ESO community, especially for women and those feminine presenting, who already have a larger mountain to climb.

My responses have done anything but proven the exact opposite of the original post. I have been playing this game for 11 years. I know how the raiding community behaves, I know their pitfalls and I know what makes them great. Your situation is one not to draw expectations from.

Dude are you ok? I have time and time again, throughout this thread have taken accountability for my actions. You are actively choosing not to see that. I get it, you dislike me, but I'm not playing pretend. I'm not saying that it should erase the damage? I have said I have made mistakes and the people that i have made mistakes towards have every right not to forgive me. I never once said it was entirely the communities fault and i never once said it was entirely my fault....You're twisting my words and what I have said. What you might have experienced in playing this game for 11 years might be different than others.

You're rather emotional responses and relentless remarks on my character seeded with malice, when I'm trying to have a logical discussion...I think you used the word earlier in the thread...is weird I guess?

You are so filled with hate for me as a person you fail to realize I have stated before that I do in fact take accountability for my actions. I am a person I have made mistakes and I want to learn from those mistakes. I wish I could turn back time and do things differently I wish I could mend the friendships Ive ruined by being an emotion fueled idiot. The fact of the matter is I genuinely can't, I wish I could. The people that dislike me can keep on disliking me and I'll try to just become a better version of myself based on all the mistakes I made.

Why I made this post was to help raiders find their way and have fun on a game that we enjoy, stop attacking my character.

soulreaper1213

T_agg wrote: »

soulreaper1213 wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

Denying the premise means nothing if you didn't claim i set the premise? You do realize that there can be multiple premises in an argument right? You are not only committing an ad hominem attack, but also an ad hoc fallacy. Why attack my perceived character when it offers nothing to the discussion? Again to re iterate while yes I could have worded things better I just want raiders to understand there is toxicity in end game raiding environments, I never said it was filled with, I never mentioned gatekeeping, and I wasn't being passive aggressive in my message.

Yes I understand it comes down to perception and again, that's why i posted this topic. We are adults playing an adult game and shouldn't shy away from these topics. Who I am as a person and who you perceive me to be arent the same. I'm not perfect, I am a human being as well as others playing this game. I just wanted to address a realistic topic.

I have made plenty of mistakes, I live with regrets, and to say I have a "weird facade for wanting to keep the peace and preserve human decency" is quite invalidating of the human experience and offers nothing to the original point of this post.

Not everyone is going to get along and that's fine it's a part of life and to say that my experiences are shared with those that can't take accountability just shows me that your perception of me is filled with malice and falsehoods. I don't know who you are nor do i care to know who you are, I just wanted to have a constructive discussion and to maybe help people that were reluctant to start learning more challenging forms of raiding.

Also just because you didn't claim I set the premise, doesn't mean it's false. Honestly, thank you soulreaper1213 your responses based in the grounds of emotions and your ideas of who i am rather than who i actually am might have helped further my point that there is toxicity in end game.

I hope anyone reading this thread doesn't shy away from the more challenging aspect of raiding and can find their path of what raiding means to them

You may live with these "regrets" of the things you've done in the past but it is consistent that you fall back into that behavior, if that wasn't the case your ban in these communities would have been lifted. You have put up a wall of sunshine, flowers, and rainbows to hide the fact that you have participated in and incited actions and behaviors that no decent community would ever tolerate, let alone promote.

To come on the forums and play pretend and contribute to the ill-conducive idea that the bad experiences you had in the raiding community was the fault of the community and not your own, is hypocritical beyond understanding. Very welcoming raiders and friendly people opened their arms to you to be a member of the raiding community and that allowed you to be where you are now, and they are repaid in behavior and actions of the exact opposite manner

Flowery words and a bubbly personality do not erase the damage your actions have done to the perception of raiders in the ESO community, especially for women and those feminine presenting, who already have a larger mountain to climb.

My responses have done anything but proven the exact opposite of the original post. I have been playing this game for 11 years. I know how the raiding community behaves, I know their pitfalls and I know what makes them great. Your situation is one not to draw expectations from.

Dude are you ok? I have time and time again, throughout this thread have taken accountability for my actions. You are actively choosing not to see that. I get it, you dislike me, but I'm not playing pretend. I'm not saying that it should erase the damage? I have said I have made mistakes and the people that i have made mistakes towards have every right not to forgive me. I never once said it was entirely the communities fault and i never once said it was entirely my fault....You're twisting my words and what I have said. What you might have experienced in playing this game for 11 years might be different than others.

You're rather emotional responses and relentless remarks on my character seeded with malice, when I'm trying to have a logical discussion...I think you used the word earlier in the thread...is weird I guess?

You are so filled with hate for me as a person you fail to realize I have stated before that I do in fact take accountability for my actions. I am a person I have made mistakes and I want to learn from those mistakes. I wish I could turn back time and do things differently I wish I could mend the friendships Ive ruined by being an emotion fueled idiot. The fact of the matter is I genuinely can't, I wish I could. The people that dislike me can keep on disliking me and I'll try to just become a better version of myself based on all the mistakes I made.

Why I made this post was to help raiders find their way and have fun on a game that we enjoy, stop attacking my character.

I am in the unfortunate circumstance of knowing you and your past behavior. Saying you're regretful means nothing if behind somewhat closed doors you fall back on them. These forums are not the place to list out the disgusting, hateful and downright dehumanizing behavior you have exhibited in the past and continue today, as that is against the terms of use.

Unfortunately for you there is no emotion behind my words, as that would mean there is room for an alternate interpretation. No matter what you may claim, myself and other ESO raiders know what you have done and continue to do and know it to be true. There is no other interpretation. That "human experience" that you have, is a far reach from that of a normal person.

If you truly want to take accountability, stop with the frilly words and nonsense bubbly presentation, and just directly change what you do and say, both in public and in private. Again, saying you're regretful means nothing if the behavior repeats itself.

In the end, the intent behind my responses is not necessarily for you. It is to provide clarity to others that your bad experience in the raiding community is one that is not shared with those who behave with a shred of decency. However, I wish you all the luck in trying to fool new players into thinking that ESO raiding is guarded by unfriendly, unwelcoming people and that your bad experiences have nothing to do with your own behavior

Lags

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

...There are various discord servers...

This is my reason for not even trying to do endgame content in ESO. Why is third party software/ service like Discord needed for raiding? Every guild WITHOUT EXCEPT demands it for raiding. Why?

Because zenimax dropped the ball when it comes to voice chat on PC. Its something this mmo needs so bad. And you will get some people who are scared of voice chat, forgetting they can literally turn it off or block people they dont want to hear. But in the grand scheme of things it would do so much good for this game. A large amount of players dont want to use discord. Even I hate having to use discord. On console it was perfect. You had area chat, group chat, and guild chat. Hell, they could even remove area chat if they wanted to, but it would be stupid. I met so many long term friends though random area chat encounters on xbox. Never had to leave the game to do content, just hop in guild chat or group chat.

The bottom line is, zos dropped the ball on this and they just dont understand it. They dont understand how many people dont want to have to use discord.

jle30303

I don't like using discord because I have to actually tab out of the game to launch it, and tabbing out of the game frequently causes ginormous amounts of lag. In any case I'm not even sure my computer has a mic, to pick up my talking, and I certainly don't intend to buy a second one. One should not have to buy extra actual physical gear to play the game.

So if I'm going to use discord *at the same time as* playing the game, I have to use discord on my phone instead, while playing the game on my actual desktop computer. Which itself is a highly inefficient and annoying way of going about it, as well as cutting me off from regular phone calls.

This is why I do not like using voice chat.

And why I think it is bad design that there are things in the game that are deemed by the players (even privately, outside the game) to *require* voice chat when voice chat is not even provided by the game.

Besides, I have neighbours, and those neighbours do not want to hear the language that sometimes comes out of people in voice chat (and yes, okay, that includes the occasional f-bomb from me when I miss a mechanic). Especially not when they're having a quiet evening at home, or worse still, trying to get to sleep.

thinkaboutit

jle30303 wrote: »

I don't like using discord because I have to actually tab out of the game to launch it, and tabbing out of the game frequently causes ginormous amounts of lag. In any case I'm not even sure my computer has a mic, to pick up my talking, and I certainly don't intend to buy a second one. One should not have to buy extra actual physical gear to play the game.

So if I'm going to use discord *at the same time as* playing the game, I have to use discord on my phone instead, while playing the game on my actual desktop computer. Which itself is a highly inefficient and annoying way of going about it, as well as cutting me off from regular phone calls.

This is why I do not like using voice chat.

And why I think it is bad design that there are things in the game that are deemed by the players (even privately, outside the game) to *require* voice chat when voice chat is not even provided by the game.

Besides, I have neighbours, and those neighbours do not want to hear the language that sometimes comes out of people in voice chat (and yes, okay, that includes the occasional f-bomb from me when I miss a mechanic). Especially not when they're having a quiet evening at home, or worse still, trying to get to sleep.

It's built in on console, i'd ask why ZOS didn't invest in PC equivalent... Most discord runs allow you to just join and keep your microphone mute, you can even lower the volume on the app as well..

Navaac223

Another good tip for players wanting to start endgame content is : don't stand 10km away if you want to get healed you idiot !!
Sorry, I joined a pug this evening D;

Seriously, just stay right behind the boss and you'll be better than most players

spartaxoxo

Lags wrote: »

The bottom line is, zos dropped the ball on this and they just dont understand it. They dont understand how many people dont want to have to use discord.

I really do feel that native voice chat is the one of the few things console has better than PC.

I've been able to help randoms that asked for help in area chat, although I'm seldom in it.

I've enjoyed impromptu dance parties as well thanks to area chat.

When you pick up trials groups, the mechanics can easily be explained to everyone. I've learned a lot of mechs in this game that way.

There's guild events like fishing events you can do, and people can just jump in and exit at will without needing to worry about invites. I was in a guild that used to do karaoke nights. You could just go in and sing a song and win a prize and have a good time.

I'm sure PC has these things too. But the sheer randomness is probably cut down on since it requires the use of a third party app.

mdjessup4906

Fwiw I've literally never been in a toxic raid, and I'm by no means the best player ever. Worst was maybe pugs where some *** liked to hear themselves talk, but they tend to get kicked fast.
Unfortunately for some, discord is where you go to find raids. It's just more practical because the game doesnt have a good way of organizing these things. There's loads of good, beginner friendly servers though. Anyone wants a rec list lmk.

FlameDark

I hope I will be able to do some end game content soon! Currently my one and only character is lvl 30! So I still got a ways to go. Once I hit past 50 (I think that's when the champ stuff starts?) I'll go guild hunting I would be pretty useless to any raiding guilds right now lol Although so far I havent met anyone toxic and the players I do talk to have been very helpful! I still am trying to figure out good build options for end game. What sort of DPS should I make my goal to achieve to start doing end game stuff?

Soarora

FlameDark wrote: »

I hope I will be able to do some end game content soon! Currently my one and only character is lvl 30! So I still got a ways to go. Once I hit past 50 (I think that's when the champ stuff starts?) I'll go guild hunting I would be pretty useless to any raiding guilds right now lol Although so far I havent met anyone toxic and the players I do talk to have been very helpful! I still am trying to figure out good build options for end game. What sort of DPS should I make my goal to achieve to start doing end game stuff?

Hi! Champion points do start at level 50 but you won't be done leveling until I think 300 or 500 something, because after level 50 you have gear maximum (160), access to DLC dungeons (I think 300), and then getting enough CP to have 4 slottables and all passives (champion points can be spent like attribute points to give added bonuses). What kind of DPS will be most helpful to a group depends on what your chosen class is, some are brought in trials as support DPS. But for the most part, composition stuff only matters when you get into vet hardmode.

Koshka

jle30303 wrote: »

I don't like using discord because I have to actually tab out of the game to launch it, and tabbing out of the game frequently causes ginormous amounts of lag. In any case I'm not even sure my computer has a mic, to pick up my talking, and I certainly don't intend to buy a second one. One should not have to buy extra actual physical gear to play the game.

So if I'm going to use discord *at the same time as* playing the game, I have to use discord on my phone instead, while playing the game on my actual desktop computer. Which itself is a highly inefficient and annoying way of going about it, as well as cutting me off from regular phone calls.

This is why I do not like using voice chat.

And why I think it is bad design that there are things in the game that are deemed by the players (even privately, outside the game) to *require* voice chat when voice chat is not even provided by the game.

Besides, I have neighbours, and those neighbours do not want to hear the language that sometimes comes out of people in voice chat (and yes, okay, that includes the occasional f-bomb from me when I miss a mechanic). Especially not when they're having a quiet evening at home, or worse still, trying to get to sleep.

You don't actually need to keep alt-tabbing, you can assign a key to mute/unmute yourself.
And considering your situation with neighbors, why not to invest in a simple gaming headset? It can be useful outside raiding, too, positional sound makes games more immersive. And you will be able to play, listen to music or watch movies at any time without worrying about bothering anyone.

twisttop138

I just gotta add, though people have said it better here. I'm a returning player new to trials. I've raided in other games years ago but not recently. I went through a couple guilds but I gotta say, you will find the right fit. I found a great PS5 guild. They helped me get gear. Logged in specifically to sit with me at the dummy for 2 hours teaching me my rotation and how to weave. They invited me to vet and even hm trials even though my DPS isn't above 50k yet. They wipe and wipe and wipe teaching us new people "on the job." We now play together even not in trials. I was hesitant to join discord. It's something my teenagers use. I had a hard time getting used to it but now I love it. We talk during the day at work, etc.

Don't worry if people are mean to you. You probably wouldn't wanna keep playing with them anyway. You will find the right fit. Voice chat is to teach. You don't have to talk, just listen. I painfully typed my questions at first. It's gonna be ok, though I know some folks have had a bad time. Also, toxic positivity? We truly live in strange times.

mdjessup4906

FlameDark wrote: »

I hope I will be able to do some end game content soon! Currently my one and only character is lvl 30! So I still got a ways to go. Once I hit past 50 (I think that's when the champ stuff starts?) I'll go guild hunting I would be pretty useless to any raiding guilds right now lol Although so far I havent met anyone toxic and the players I do talk to have been very helpful! I still am trying to figure out good build options for end game. What sort of DPS should I make my goal to achieve to start doing end game stuff?

Nothing stopping you from doing most normal trials even this low. Lots of guilds run both normal and vet trials. Theyre easy enough that wirh a decent group and mech awareness you can clear just fine. I lead lowbies through them all the time.

Used to be people wanted you to be cp 160 for gearcap but we have sticker book now so no one cares anymore. If this is your first char collect/decon all the things and get yourself to cp160. Then you'll be at gear cap and can start reconstructing the good gear.

Orbital78

With the group finder there is no reason not to give normals a shot. Sadly they don't really prepare you for veterans that well. They could use a normal hard mode or something as most mechs just get ignored kind of like high end speed starts.

I avoided them for a long time thinking it was too hard for me, but it ended up being real easy and a way to meet more guild mates. Vets are another story, I got a group of friends working on bahaei hm currently.

LesserCircle

Am I the only one who has seen a severe decline in trial groups since people don't really go to Craglorn for that anymore?

Renato90085

LesserCircle wrote: »

Am I the only one who has seen a severe decline in trial groups since people don't really go to Craglorn for that anymore?

because now main use group finder..?
when i start play eso (utc+8 time zone)
i alway can see 5-6 n trial and 2-4 vet trial post