A message to new players wanting to do end game content

T_agg · February 21

Hello my ign is T.agg o/ I posted this in general discussion in hopes of reaching a wider audience.

Newer raiders as well as long time raiders please don't be afraid of end game content it's quite fun and challenging. There are various discord servers and in game guilds that can help you find your way. While mechanics may seem scary it's not actually the mechanics, it's the people. So my message for raiders interested in end game content please tread carefully...there is a large amount of toxicity in end game and it might be directed at you if you aren't careful. I have received it first hand, but do i care anymore? Not really as it's quite silly; the amount of childish nonsense i hear from them is so mind blowing i cant believe most of them function as actual adults outside of this game and wouldn't even be remotely surprised if they cant. Sorta seems like some of them peaked in high school.

This leads me to my next point, please don't let some people who are bad ruin your perception of this great game. Yes bugs here and there, however just because there is a small amount of toxic people in end game shouldn't ruin your raiding experience. There are plenty of servers, not just the big ones, that you can experience great people and great raiding environments. Please just remember when you encounter toxic people to assert boundaries, we play this game to have fun. There is a lot to enjoy about trifecta progging and learning hardmode mechanics.

Please be careful new raiders I would have quit a long time ago for the amount of toxicity and bullying I've received, but helping you guys learn mechanics and appreciate the game keeps me tolerating the huge amount of bullying i go through. So please be strong, find your way and have fun

abkam · February 21

Well said! Endgame raiding can be intimidating, but it’s absolutely worth experiencing for the challenge and sense of accomplishment. Toxicity is, unfortunately, part of any competitive environment, but surrounding yourself with the right people makes all the difference. There are plenty of groups and communities that foster a positive experience—finding them is key.

For newer raiders, don’t be afraid to ask questions and learn at your own pace. Mechanics might seem overwhelming at first, but with practice and the right group, they become second nature. Most importantly, play for fun, set boundaries with toxic players, and remember that improvement comes with time. Good luck, and happy raiding!

frogthroat · February 21

In my personal experience most toxicity has been in PUGs. Pretty much every guild run has been chill. So I would recommend finding a guild that also does raiding. There are guilds that offer learning trials where all the mechanics are explained, they can help with the build and how to improve.

Horace-Wimp · February 21

T_agg wrote: »

...There are various discord servers...

This is my reason for not even trying to do endgame content in ESO. Why is third party software/ service like Discord needed for raiding? Every guild WITHOUT EXCEPT demands it for raiding. Why?

Thysbe · February 21

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

...There are various discord servers...

This is my reason for not even trying to do endgame content in ESO. Why is third party software/ service like Discord needed for raiding? Every guild WITHOUT EXCEPT demands it for raiding. Why?

Voice chat for comunication during and besides raids like roster, set ups and dates - all of this is not provided by ESO.

Edit: Some raids are fine with you not wanting to talk. I am sure you can easily find someone not forcing you, but you have to be able to listen to raidlead calls at least.

abkam · February 21

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

...There are various discord servers...

This is my reason for not even trying to do endgame content in ESO. Why is third party software/ service like Discord needed for raiding? Every guild WITHOUT EXCEPT demands it for raiding. Why?

Because, they ask you to post a screenshot of your parse and another of your achievements to determine if you're good enough to join them. If you're not quite at their level, you'll be considered as a backup in case a stronger player can't make it. Alternatively, you can create your own group with your own rules—it's not hard at all!

JemadarofCaerSalis · February 21

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

...There are various discord servers...

This is my reason for not even trying to do endgame content in ESO. Why is third party software/ service like Discord needed for raiding? Every guild WITHOUT EXCEPT demands it for raiding. Why?

This is my issue with some of these guilds.

For one, I don't do voice chat. At all.

For another, I tried discord once and it was very confusing to me, and I don't want to have to have yet another thing open while playing the game.

Rogue_Coyote · February 21

This is exactly why people avoid "sweaty" pve content. How does one have achievements if nobody wants to take them through the content?

Soarora · February 21

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

...There are various discord servers...

This is my reason for not even trying to do endgame content in ESO. Why is third party software/ service like Discord needed for raiding? Every guild WITHOUT EXCEPT demands it for raiding. Why?

This is my issue with some of these guilds.

For one, I don't do voice chat. At all.

For another, I tried discord once and it was very confusing to me, and I don't want to have to have yet another thing open while playing the game.

When you get into hardmode trials, the voice chat is really important for communicating tank swaps, support ultimates, when its safe to do certain things (like go down into portal in Cloudrest or come up from portal in Sunspire), needing domes swapped in Dreadsail Reef, etc. Most people can’t type fast enough to get around using voice chat.

Rogue_Coyote wrote: »

This is exactly why people avoid "sweaty" pve content. How does one have achievements if nobody wants to take them through the content?

There are training guilds, and even sweaty PvE guilds have training runs. A lot of people also end up with a group of friends who sweep through achievements.

Ph1p · February 21

Rogue_Coyote wrote: »

This is exactly why people avoid "sweaty" pve content. How does one have achievements if nobody wants to take them through the content?

Groups that require achievements aren't aimed at new players. They want to efficiently farm gear, go for higher even achievements, or train specific mechanics, for example. So of course they don't want to take a new player through the content, because that's not their objective or purpose.

I can only recommend that new players look for the right kind of group, whose ambitions and goals align with their own. I used to lead a weekly intro run for people new to vet trials. We never asked for achievements, specific classes, or gear. Our DPS requirements were so low someone once joked that it would be torture to parse on a trial dummy for that long...

However, I can tell everyone not wanting to join voice chat that this is a dealbreaker for any learning trial and also makes no sense if you really want to learn. We need to coordinate the run, explain mechanics, outline our strategy, and answer questions from people. That's why we use voice chat and that's why we need everyone to join. But, especially in learning runs, you only need to listen and can otherwise mute yourself.

sarahthes · February 21

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

...There are various discord servers...

This is my reason for not even trying to do endgame content in ESO. Why is third party software/ service like Discord needed for raiding? Every guild WITHOUT EXCEPT demands it for raiding. Why?

Past the very basic levels of normal or some older vet trials, being able to coordinate in voice chat makes runs far, far smoother because you can adjust dynamically rather than waiting for someone to type in chat. For an example of when voice chat would be beneficial, go do some vet Dreadsail Reef pugs in group finder without comms and see what the success rate is like.

abkam wrote: »

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

...There are various discord servers...

This is my reason for not even trying to do endgame content in ESO. Why is third party software/ service like Discord needed for raiding? Every guild WITHOUT EXCEPT demands it for raiding. Why?

Because, they ask you to post a screenshot of your parse and another of your achievements to determine if you're good enough to join them. If you're not quite at their level, you'll be considered as a backup in case a stronger player can't make it. Alternatively, you can create your own group with your own rules—it's not hard at all!

I lead in a discord that has a number of different levels of trial. It's not just one group. We like helping people get new check marks on their achievement trackers. If you haven't cleared vet Rockgrove, though, we aren't going to roster you for a pug Planesbreaker. We would point you at the vet Rockgrove farm or trainer we are also hosting in the same discord.

Belegnole · February 21

Eso trials groups are gatekeeping at it's finest.

sans-culottes · February 21

Belegnole wrote: »

Eso trials groups are gatekeeping at it's finest.

Ironically, folks also argue that by not being able to inspect others’ gear, this has ameliorated elitism, gatekeeping, and so on. For console players, for example, having to “do” and submit parses is far less straightforward than the other gatekeeping mechanisms found in other, similar games. It accomplishes the same thing, though.

sarahthes · February 21

Belegnole wrote: »

Eso trials groups are gatekeeping at it's finest.

How so?

What I have seen is that casual servers/guilds gatekeep a lot more than true endgame groups.

BananaBender · February 21

Belegnole wrote: »

Eso trials groups are gatekeeping at it's finest.

How so?

JaxontheUnfortunate · February 21

There are some beginner friendly guilds for running trials I would recommend joining one of those, as for discord it makes it much easier for the raid lead to explain mechanics, assign roles, etc.

Soarora · February 21

Belegnole wrote: »

Eso trials groups are gatekeeping at it's finest.

Most of the endgame community at large is happy to help new players with the caveat that the players need to desire help. We want the communities to grow. Those who are elitist gatekeepers are usually mediocre players who are unnecessarily aggressive. People generally have the wrong idea about the trial community. There’s cons for sure, but there’s bad apples everywhere. Just need to find the right guild for who you are as a person.

Desiato · February 21

The ESO trial community is the most easy going, least toxic, most helpful end game community I have ever seen in 30+ years of online gaming. It is almost overwhelming how welcoming they are.

The only "gatekeeping" is practical. A certain level of conformation is required for vet trials and this increases in HM and trifectas.

IMO, the OP is a disservice to the community, the players who put SO MUCH of themselves into helping others, and players who might be interested in Trials.

Don't let the OP discourage you! DM me if you want some help getting into trials and I'll point you in the right direction. (I don't feel it's my place to publicly advertise discord servers maintained by others.)

T_agg · February 21

Desiato wrote: »

The ESO trial community is the most easy going, least toxic, most helpful end game community I have ever seen in 30+ years of online gaming. It is almost overwhelming how welcoming they are.

The only "gatekeeping" is practical. A certain level of conformation is required for vet trials and this increases in HM and trifectas.

IMO, the OP is a disservice to the community, the players who put SO MUCH of themselves into helping others, and players who might be interested in Trials.

Don't let the OP discourage you! DM me if you want some help getting into trials and I'll point you in the right direction. (I don't feel it's my place to publicly advertise discord servers maintained by others.)

Wrote I wrote wasn't meant to discourage anyone and in my opinion your reply is actually a disservice. I wanted to show the reality of end game raiding and not a guise. I understand people have different experiences however if you would have actually read my statement it wasn't meant to discourage raiders at all; in fact it's meant to actually encourage them, all the while not shying away from the reality of end game raiding. I have played multiple mmos and eso end game has been incredibly toxic to me as well as others. I was just speaking from a place of experience and your opinion not only is quite invalidating, but also promotes toxic positivity. I think as adults playing a game meant for adults https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/answer/472 , we shouldn't shy away from realistic topics like this. Just because you haven't received discrimination and toxicity online doesn't mean others haven't as well.

I also want to state i don't mean for my words to be seen as a personal attack, not my intention, more so toxicity (positive and negative) don't help us move forward as a whole. I understand humans are complex and not everyone will get along that's ok it is apart of the human experience, again another point is that this is trying to be a realistic view point.

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

...There are various discord servers...

This is my reason for not even trying to do endgame content in ESO. Why is third party software/ service like Discord needed for raiding? Every guild WITHOUT EXCEPT demands it for raiding. Why?

I think because on PC we don't have proximity chat like console does? I'm genuinely unsure, but thinking about it I believe (this is an opinion) because it's just easier to explain mechanics as well as answer any questions someone might have about said mechanics. It helps with more minute details that can be lost over chat box text in game.

T_agg · February 21

To help people better understand what I was trying to convey with my original post (apologies as i don't type or speak well)

Find your way as a player, in this case it pertains to raiding at a higher level. Yes there will be cliques, yes there will be toxicity, yes there will be arguments and yes there will be gatekeeping. Do I condone these things, no. However I just wanted to speak as an individual who has received toxicity first hand and hope it could help newer raiders trying to navigate the competitiveness of end game raiding.

End game I know is a rather blanket statement, what could be end game raiding to me might be different to someone else. Even though this is a rather broad term, it still has some shared perspective across raiding environments.

Again, to reiterate, the human experience isn't pretty and I was just trying to help newer raiders as well as anyone else it could help create better boundaries, find their way and have them enjoy a game that many of us have a passion for.

Kahnak · February 21

Belegnole wrote: »

Eso trials groups are gatekeeping at it's finest.

Receipts, please.

And anecdotes from your 1 a.m. Vet Rockgrove Pug group aren't going to cut it.

Kahnak · February 21

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

...There are various discord servers...

This is my reason for not even trying to do endgame content in ESO. Why is third party software/ service like Discord needed for raiding? Every guild WITHOUT EXCEPT demands it for raiding. Why?

This is my issue with some of these guilds.

For one, I don't do voice chat. At all.

For another, I tried discord once and it was very confusing to me, and I don't want to have to have yet another thing open while playing the game.

In this case, I don't think this is a guild issue. What is the alternative here? The Raid Lead is supposed to type out a document in chat so that you can understand the mechanics when everyone else can simply discuss them over voice? If you don't like doing content with other people, then group content just isn't for you. It's not a problem with the expectation for people to listen to call outs in discord.

said no one ever · February 21

im confused i thought coming to the forums was end game content??

Desiato · February 21

There are open trial communities that accept anyone as a member. Anyone can join and participate in normal trials, no questions asked.

They also offer training and advice to guide players into vet trials. The requirements are extremely mild. For healers and tanks, they just need to collect a couple of sets and for dps they need to be able to parse at certain values -- that are achievable in heavy attack builds.

If anyone needs any help at all, there are countless players willing to assist. When I was new to the open trial community, I posted my parse results and was instantly given advice that resulted in an immediate 25% improvement.

When I learned one of the most mechanically challenging encounters, vDSR twins, I participated in trainers in which players with trifectas patiently wiped on the same boss for two hours straight, never losing their patience! I actually went through this a few times before finally getting a clear. I could not believe how patient the trainers were.

These experiences weren't outliers. This has been par for the course since I got into trials last spring on PC/NA.

If I need advice on anything, I can reach out to world record holders who don't even know me and ask questions! Many regularly offer training sessions. Just the other day, an anonymous old guy like me was able to casually join a group hosted by a record holder.

Of course, that doesn't mean there is zero toxicity in the trial community because such environments don't exist in human society. But in general, the only places one will usually see it is in group finder vet pugs which are 100% at the discretion of the raid leads. Vet gf trial pugs are not an environment for new players. Most vet group finder pugs are for players who already know what to do and are farming. Don't join a KWTD group unless you know what to do!

Also, trifecta groups can get heated. They are not for everyone and they are not designed to be. Trifecta progressions usually take weeks and months and one weak link can break the chain. So if someone is not pulling their weight, it simply must be addressed. They are for players who are looking for that kind of pressure.

I honestly can't imagine how anyone can ask for more, outside of a curated experience designed just for them.

soulreaper1213 · February 22

Something this post and a lot of those who consider the members of the ESO raiding community as "gatekeepers" do not acknowledge and do so willingly: Is the idea of expectations in raiding and confusing it with toxicity and the aforementioned gatekeeping.

When you are a member of a group doing trial content, it is expected that every member pulls their weight. This is the minimum expectation. In order to complete trial content you need to do damage, and don't die. That bar is very low for normal trials, increases by a decent amount for veteran trials, increases by a large amount for veteran hard mode trials, and increases by an even larger amount for trifecta and score-pushing trial content.

Doing a trial on group finder is a very underutilized way to complete trial content. Rarely will you find hard modes done, but you can easily find all kinds of normal trial content and sometimes veteran content. These runs usually have very low expectations because there are minimal ways to vet the players they intake and therefore aren't as quick, easy and clean in execution.

ESO Raiding discords are the premiere method in which you can complete trial content. Anywhere from bare bones veteran trainers to teach the mechanics, to some super sweaty trial runs. These have higher expectations than the group finder but for a very good reason: They strive for better results. At the low level, these barebones veteran trainers are not so they just get the clear. They are to teach all the players on how to handle the trials mechanics so that the next time the player finds themself in that trial, they are more confident. Quite literally the opposite of gatekeeping.

And if you refuse to use discord for trial content. Then you are willingly limiting your experience in ESO raiding. There are many super end game raiders who don't use their mic, but they're able to listen to the raid lead and that is most important aspect.

TLDR: Do trial content because it's fun with expectations that match your experience. Show up to training runs with the intent to learn. Show up to a public non-trainer with decently optimized gear and skills and the knowledge of how to do your role at a basic level. People are not toxic gatekeepers because they feel that you are not fit for the intention of that group.

T_agg · February 22

soulreaper1213 wrote: »

Something this post and a lot of those who consider the members of the ESO raiding community as "gatekeepers" do not acknowledge and do so willingly: Is the idea of expectations in raiding and confusing it with toxicity and the aforementioned gatekeeping.

When you are a member of a group doing trial content, it is expected that every member pulls their weight. This is the minimum expectation. In order to complete trial content you need to do damage, and don't die. That bar is very low for normal trials, increases by a decent amount for veteran trials, increases by a large amount for veteran hard mode trials, and increases by an even larger amount for trifecta and score-pushing trial content.

Doing a trial on group finder is a very underutilized way to complete trial content. Rarely will you find hard modes done, but you can easily find all kinds of normal trial content and sometimes veteran content. These runs usually have very low expectations because there are minimal ways to vet the players they intake and therefore aren't as quick, easy and clean in execution.

ESO Raiding discords are the premiere method in which you can complete trial content. Anywhere from bare bones veteran trainers to teach the mechanics, to some super sweaty trial runs. These have higher expectations than the group finder but for a very good reason: They strive for better results. At the low level, these bare bones veteran trainers are not so they just get the clear. They are to teach all the players on how to handle the trials mechanics so that the next time the player finds themself in that trial, they are more confident. Quite literally the opposite of gatekeeping.

And if you refuse to use discord for trial content. Then you are willingly limiting your experience in ESO raiding. There are many super end game raiders who don't use their mic, but they're able to listen to the raid lead and that is most important aspect.

TLDR: Do trial content because it's fun with expectations that match your experience. Show up to training runs with the intent to learn. Show up to a public non-trainer with decently optimized gear and skills and the knowledge of how to do your role at a basic level. People are not toxic gatekeepers because they feel that you are not fit for the intention of that group.

I do acknowledge trial expectations actually. What I'm talking about isn't that, what I'm talking about is when you make one mistake you get yelled at or berated yet their close friends or people that they want to look good in front of make mistakes they joke about their mistakes, what I'm talking about is when you complain about being bullied by members of their officer team you actually get treated worse than if you hadn't said anything about the situation and kept on tolerating it, what I'm talking about is when people preach inclusivity yet call people *** in vc's and make them feel like they are less than human, what I'm talking about is they preach don't be racist yet use racial slurs in vc and try to hide it, what I'm talking about is if you don't kiss their ass, if you don't play their game of high school politics they ostracize you, treat you horribly then try to act kind and nice around others. What I'm talking about is jealous women and men who see you as a threat or an annoyance and try to get you kicked from servers. It has been done to me throughout the years as well as others. What I'm talking about is genuine toxicity, not gatekeeping.

This post was just meant for people or perhaps anyone that is reluctant to go to end game and I wanted to let them know just because their are a few terrible human beings that do these things doesn't mean everyone is. Please excuse my crass language, but I just want to convey the weight of the situations I've encountered and have seen happen.

Ph1p · February 22

T_agg wrote: »

Hello my ign is T.agg o/ I posted this in general discussion in hopes of reaching a wider audience.

Newer raiders as well as long time raiders please don't be afraid of end game content it's quite fun and challenging. There are various discord servers and in game guilds that can help you find your way. While mechanics may seem scary it's not actually the mechanics, it's the people. So my message for raiders interested in end game content please tread carefully...there is a large amount of toxicity in end game and it might be directed at you if you aren't careful. I have received it first hand, but do i care anymore? Not really as it's quite silly; the amount of childish nonsense i hear from them is so mind blowing i cant believe most of them function as actual adults outside of this game and wouldn't even be remotely surprised if they cant. Sorta seems like some of them peaked in high school.

This leads me to my next point, please don't let some people who are bad ruin your perception of this great game. Yes bugs here and there, however just because there is a small amount of toxic people in end game shouldn't ruin your raiding experience. There are plenty of servers, not just the big ones, that you can experience great people and great raiding environments. Please just remember when you encounter toxic people to assert boundaries, we play this game to have fun. There is a lot to enjoy about trifecta progging and learning hardmode mechanics.

Please be careful new raiders I would have quit a long time ago for the amount of toxicity and bullying I've received, but helping you guys learn mechanics and appreciate the game keeps me tolerating the huge amount of bullying i go through. So please be strong, find your way and have fun

What I don't get about this thread is the following: OP's goal is to encourage new players to try veteran content. Yet they focus 95% of their writing on all the toxic experiences they've had, then add a quick "but there's just a few terrible people after all" at the end. If I wanted to persuade people to come work at the same company I do, of course I'd be honest about any toxic behavior, but I'd also highlight the collaborative co-workers, the great pay, or whatever.

I can only tell new raiders that most people in the community just want to trials in peace. They're the bread and butter of every group - perhaps more quiet but generally nice people simply playing the game. Among them is a small group of really helpful people. They're the ones researching strategies, explaining mechanics, suggesting improvements, and so forth. Yes, real toxicity absolutely exists, but please don't make the lives of the other players more difficult by over-focusing on it.

And please understand that there's often two sides to a story. For example, there is a player out there who would probably call me a toxic raid leader who hated them for no reason and caused them to quit our group and guild. Yet for me and the rest of the group, that person was a constant backseat-raid-lead, who berated other players for making mistakes (in a learning run), explained mechanics wrong, and got offended by feedback (that wasn't even directed at them).

T_agg · February 22

Ph1p wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

Hello my ign is T.agg o/ I posted this in general discussion in hopes of reaching a wider audience.

Newer raiders as well as long time raiders please don't be afraid of end game content it's quite fun and challenging. There are various discord servers and in game guilds that can help you find your way. While mechanics may seem scary it's not actually the mechanics, it's the people. So my message for raiders interested in end game content please tread carefully...there is a large amount of toxicity in end game and it might be directed at you if you aren't careful. I have received it first hand, but do i care anymore? Not really as it's quite silly; the amount of childish nonsense i hear from them is so mind blowing i cant believe most of them function as actual adults outside of this game and wouldn't even be remotely surprised if they cant. Sorta seems like some of them peaked in high school.

This leads me to my next point, please don't let some people who are bad ruin your perception of this great game. Yes bugs here and there, however just because there is a small amount of toxic people in end game shouldn't ruin your raiding experience. There are plenty of servers, not just the big ones, that you can experience great people and great raiding environments. Please just remember when you encounter toxic people to assert boundaries, we play this game to have fun. There is a lot to enjoy about trifecta progging and learning hardmode mechanics.

Please be careful new raiders I would have quit a long time ago for the amount of toxicity and bullying I've received, but helping you guys learn mechanics and appreciate the game keeps me tolerating the huge amount of bullying i go through. So please be strong, find your way and have fun

What I don't get about this thread is the following: OP's goal is to encourage new players to try veteran content. Yet they focus 95% of their writing on all the toxic experiences they've had, then add a quick "but there's just a few terrible people after all" at the end. If I wanted to persuade people to come work at the same company I do, of course I'd be honest about any toxic behavior, but I'd also highlight the collaborative co-workers, the great pay, or whatever.

I can only tell new raiders that most people in the community just want to trials in peace. They're the bread and butter of every group - perhaps more quiet but generally nice people simply playing the game. Among them is a small group of really helpful people. They're the ones researching strategies, explaining mechanics, suggesting improvements, and so forth. Yes, real toxicity absolutely exists, but please don't make the lives of the other players more difficult by over-focusing on it.

And please understand that there's often two sides to a story. For example, there is a player out there who would probably call me a toxic raid leader who hated them for no reason and caused them to quit our group and guild. Yet for me and the rest of the group, that person was a constant backseat-raid-lead, who berated other players for making mistakes (in a learning run), explained mechanics wrong, and got offended by feedback (that wasn't even directed at them).

Thank you

I just focus on it as i want them to have awareness is all as well as create conversation thank you for showing more positive things ph1p

I again don't have a way with words haha

Koshka · February 22

I think that communication is the key to enjoying trials and dungeons. Pug experience is often not that great, and many hardmodes are pretty much impossible to pug anyway. There are many awesome guilds and raid groups, but you kinda have to be proactive and look for them. I am honestly confused by people who hate the very idea of talking to others and always seem to assume the worst about them. Like... Of course, there are some bad apples, but ESO community is generally pretty chill. You just need to be open-minded and willing to learn.

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

T_agg wrote: »

...There are various discord servers...

This is my reason for not even trying to do endgame content in ESO. Why is third party software/ service like Discord needed for raiding? Every guild WITHOUT EXCEPT demands it for raiding. Why?

That's because voice chat is required for harder trials. They require coordination and you won't have time to type or read text chat. Oftentimes you only have a few seconds to prepare for a mechanic, it is impossible to type warnings every time they happen. You also cannot just stop healing or tanking for a few seconds to announce your ultimate in text chat. It's not some kind of a weird fad, it is a necessity.
You can stay muted most of the time, though. Unless you are a support or a dd that is responsible for certain mechanics, but even then, you will just need to say 1-2 words from time to time. Things like "pillager", "portal is done", etc.
The reason why raiding guilds require Discord in particular is because it's simply more convenient than Teamspeak and you don't have to rent a server.

soulreaper1213 · February 22

T_agg wrote: »

I do acknowledge trial expectations actually. What I'm talking about isn't that, what I'm talking about is when you make one mistake you get yelled at or berated yet their close friends or people that they want to look good in front of make mistakes they joke about their mistakes, what I'm talking about is when you complain about being bullied by members of their officer team you actually get treated worse than if you hadn't said anything about the situation and kept on tolerating it, what I'm talking about is when people preach inclusivity yet call people *** in vc's and make them feel like they are less than human, what I'm talking about is they preach don't be racist yet use racial slurs in vc and try to hide it, what I'm talking about is if you don't kiss their ass, if you don't play their game of high school politics they ostracize you, treat you horribly then try to act kind and nice around others. What I'm talking about is jealous women and men who see you as a threat or an annoyance and try to get you kicked from servers. It has been done to me throughout the years as well as others. What I'm talking about is genuine toxicity, not gatekeeping.

This post was just meant for people or perhaps anyone that is reluctant to go to end game and I wanted to let them know just because their are a few terrible human beings that do these things doesn't mean everyone is. Please excuse my crass language, but I just want to convey the weight of the situations I've encountered and have seen happen.

You have been an on-and-off raider in ESO discords for a while. You, yourself have participated in the jokes and trash talk, and based on many raiders experience with you, have gone too far with them. Yet you somehow still miss the point of the raiding community.

This is not an office job, many people are not going to have this "professional decorum" that you are weirdly expecting from the community. It's a group of internet strangers playing together for pure enjoyment. There is going to be playful ribbing, trash talking, crude jokes, the whole nine. When something goes too far, and your first response is to "report it to the officer team", you have already lost the plot. An overwhelming majority of ESO raiders are normal people. They get into the moment, get heated, locked in, and may say or do something that is not welcome in that "professional" setting. However that does not automatically demerit them as a bully or a gatekeeper.

So what do you do? A majority of these people are adults with the free will and the ability to make our own choices. You can respectfully remove yourself as you don't want to be associated with them. You can directly, concisely and non-aggressively confront the person and explain how you felt about the situation. But jumping to the concept of "reporting to the officer team" can and will be seen as odd, passive-aggressive and not meeting the expectations of behavior in some of ESO's raiding community.

So I will leave you with this. Remove yourself from the behavioral high horse. You are sufficiently self-aware to know you don't belong there. Don't contribute to the false claim that ESO's raiding community is filled with toxicity, bullies and gatekeepers. Without the raiders who are the epitome of the exact opposite, you yourself would not be a member.

p00tx · February 22

T_agg wrote: »

soulreaper1213 wrote: »

Something this post and a lot of those who consider the members of the ESO raiding community as "gatekeepers" do not acknowledge and do so willingly: Is the idea of expectations in raiding and confusing it with toxicity and the aforementioned gatekeeping.

When you are a member of a group doing trial content, it is expected that every member pulls their weight. This is the minimum expectation. In order to complete trial content you need to do damage, and don't die. That bar is very low for normal trials, increases by a decent amount for veteran trials, increases by a large amount for veteran hard mode trials, and increases by an even larger amount for trifecta and score-pushing trial content.

Doing a trial on group finder is a very underutilized way to complete trial content. Rarely will you find hard modes done, but you can easily find all kinds of normal trial content and sometimes veteran content. These runs usually have very low expectations because there are minimal ways to vet the players they intake and therefore aren't as quick, easy and clean in execution.

ESO Raiding discords are the premiere method in which you can complete trial content. Anywhere from bare bones veteran trainers to teach the mechanics, to some super sweaty trial runs. These have higher expectations than the group finder but for a very good reason: They strive for better results. At the low level, these bare bones veteran trainers are not so they just get the clear. They are to teach all the players on how to handle the trials mechanics so that the next time the player finds themself in that trial, they are more confident. Quite literally the opposite of gatekeeping.

And if you refuse to use discord for trial content. Then you are willingly limiting your experience in ESO raiding. There are many super end game raiders who don't use their mic, but they're able to listen to the raid lead and that is most important aspect.

TLDR: Do trial content because it's fun with expectations that match your experience. Show up to training runs with the intent to learn. Show up to a public non-trainer with decently optimized gear and skills and the knowledge of how to do your role at a basic level. People are not toxic gatekeepers because they feel that you are not fit for the intention of that group.

I do acknowledge trial expectations actually. What I'm talking about isn't that, what I'm talking about is when you make one mistake you get yelled at or berated yet their close friends or people that they want to look good in front of make mistakes they joke about their mistakes, what I'm talking about is when you complain about being bullied by members of their officer team you actually get treated worse than if you hadn't said anything about the situation and kept on tolerating it, what I'm talking about is when people preach inclusivity yet call people *** in vc's and make them feel like they are less than human, what I'm talking about is they preach don't be racist yet use racial slurs in vc and try to hide it, what I'm talking about is if you don't kiss their ass, if you don't play their game of high school politics they ostracize you, treat you horribly then try to act kind and nice around others. What I'm talking about is jealous women and men who see you as a threat or an annoyance and try to get you kicked from servers. It has been done to me throughout the years as well as others. What I'm talking about is genuine toxicity, not gatekeeping.

This post was just meant for people or perhaps anyone that is reluctant to go to end game and I wanted to let them know just because their are a few terrible human beings that do these things doesn't mean everyone is. Please excuse my crass language, but I just want to convey the weight of the situations I've encountered and have seen happen.

You're not wrong about the occasional bullying in the community, because the people playing are, after all, 100% human. It's going to happen in any social group in any game, and isn't specific to endgame PvE in ESO. That being said, making this post and saying the things you've said are far from productive ways to bridge those gaps and mend any bridges. This feels very passive aggressive and indirectly insulting, and is failing to acknowledge the parts you've played in being ostracized from the community. I'm not going to bust you out here for your behavior, because that's also not appropriate to air in public, nor is it going to be productive, but I'd strongly suggest being more introspective and self-reflective before making a post like this. We can all do better.