Style materials are out of hand…

Rittings · February 17

At this point we are heading for nearly 200 different style materials. It’s kinda crazy. Can they not be condensed into factions?

4 simple style materials… Pact, Covenant, Dominion and Imperial. Wherever the trial/dungeon is located is what style material is required, done. Simples.

Orbital78 · February 17

*Laughs in ESO+* Just wait, there are two more coming out in March most likely.

ApoAlaia · February 17

Orbital78 wrote: »

*Laughs in ESO+* Just wait, there are two more coming out in March most likely.

If only.

Chances are we won't see the styles and associated materials until late summer.

Orbital78 · February 17

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

*Laughs in ESO+* Just wait, there are two more coming out in March most likely.

If only.

Chances are we won't see the styles and associated materials until late summer.

True, the style mats do tend to come out much earlier than the motifs though. Without the motifs I'd rather the mats not come out till the pages do.

Dragonnord · February 17

I don't see the problem regardless the amount.

Morag Tong, Daedric, Hollowjack Style, Welkynar, Icereach Coven, Arkthzand Armory, Annihilarch's Chosen, Shardborn, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., have nothing to do with factions.

PS: Please edit the thread title from 9r to of. Thanks.

Vaqual · February 17

Call me weird, but I like collecting specific items.

TaSheen · February 17

I don't mind them the way they are now. But of course I have ESO+. I'm sure it's a bigger problem for non-subscribers....

LootAllTheStuff · February 17

TaSheen wrote: »

I don't mind them the way they are now. But of course I have ESO+. I'm sure it's a bigger problem for non-subscribers....

*Looks into inventory* Oh yeah...

I'm working on getting more storage chests to deal with it, but writs are dropping pretty intermittently for me right now. Haven't seen a decent master writ for going on 2 months?

tomofhyrule · February 17

I have to say, I like having all of the style mats... but then again I have ESO+ and also have no problem running the content that gets me said mats if I need them. I also don't do much with them afterwards, so they really do just sit around.

If people are trying to craft in a certain style, 1) you don't need them for the armor look because of the styling system, and 2) if you need one for a master writ and you don't want to have hundreds on hand, they are purchasable from guild traders and we also get loads of Crown Mimic stones for daily rewards as well that you can use instead.

Having said that, there are a few things I would support:

Furnishings requiring multiple of one style mat is excessive. Furnishing recipes in the first place are excessive, honestly.
Between Wrothgar and Morrowind, almost every style mat has fragments. We don't need those fragments - just keep the full mat and lose the "collect 10 [thing 1] to get a full mat"

Estin · February 17

I feel that the majority needs to go. Style materials are outdated because of the outfit system. Style pages are also often dirt cheap except for a select few, and some style materials are actually more expensive than their style page. Only a hand full are actually used for crafting furnishings as well, so the rest are filler that clog up your inventory if you're not ESO+.

On a related note, IIRC there was a Q&A that said the reason why we don't have a furnishing bag is because they have to make a column in a new table for each furnishing in the game so it can stack infinitely. This is already done with the craft bag, so adding another one of these tables would cause more strain on the server. There are so many junk materials in the game that go unused across ever craft material category. I would wish that they would get rid of these unused materials so they can use that free space to create a furnishing bag. This would not only make the game better to play without ESO+, but make crafting more streamlined when it comes to materials.

spartaxoxo · February 17

Dragonnord wrote: »

I don't see the problem regardless the amount.

Morag Tong, Daedric, Hollowjack Style, Welkynar, Icereach Coven, Arkthzand Armory, Annihilarch's Chosen, Shardborn, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., have nothing to do with factions.

PS: Please edit the thread title from 9r to of. Thanks.

What does 9r mean?

freespirit · February 17

Estin wrote: »

I feel that the majority needs to go. Style materials are outdated because of the outfit system. Style pages are also often dirt cheap except for a select few, and some style materials are actually more expensive than their style page. Only a hand full are actually used for crafting furnishings as well, so the rest are filler that clog up your inventory if you're not ESO+.

On a related note, IIRC there was a Q&A that said the reason why we don't have a furnishing bag is because they have to make a column in a new table for each furnishing in the game so it can stack infinitely. This is already done with the craft bag, so adding another one of these tables would cause more strain on the server. There are so many junk materials in the game that go unused across ever craft material category. I would wish that they would get rid of these unused materials so they can use that free space to create a furnishing bag. This would not only make the game better to play without ESO+, but make crafting more streamlined when it comes to materials.

If you do a lot of housing you would be surprised how many of these materials are actually used.

I have a craft bag but I frequently run out of even the most basic materials....

Starmetal - if I'm using Redguard items
Nickel - If I'm using Colovian items
Jejota, denima, rekuta - Every praxis uses these

The list is huge and with the nickel, starmetal, bone, obsidian etc each item uses 15 of each, it adds up really quickly, want ten pretty Redguard cushion, that's 150 starmetal! 🙂

LootAllTheStuff · February 17

freespirit wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

I feel that the majority needs to go. Style materials are outdated because of the outfit system. Style pages are also often dirt cheap except for a select few, and some style materials are actually more expensive than their style page. Only a hand full are actually used for crafting furnishings as well, so the rest are filler that clog up your inventory if you're not ESO+.

On a related note, IIRC there was a Q&A that said the reason why we don't have a furnishing bag is because they have to make a column in a new table for each furnishing in the game so it can stack infinitely. This is already done with the craft bag, so adding another one of these tables would cause more strain on the server. There are so many junk materials in the game that go unused across ever craft material category. I would wish that they would get rid of these unused materials so they can use that free space to create a furnishing bag. This would not only make the game better to play without ESO+, but make crafting more streamlined when it comes to materials.

If you do a lot of housing you would be surprised how many of these materials are actually used.

I have a craft bag but I frequently run out of even the most basic materials....

Starmetal - if I'm using Redguard items
Nickel - If I'm using Colovian items
Jejota, denima, rekuta - Every praxis uses these

The list is huge and with the nickel, starmetal, bone, obsidian etc each item uses 15 of each, it adds up really quickly, want ten pretty Redguard cushion, that's 150 starmetal! 🙂

The number of each material required for furnishings - such as those cushions - often seems highly excessive given the size of the finished object. Maybe one way of dealing with both issues would be to allow substitutions - especially given all the Ancient and Ancestral variants.

SeaGtGruff · February 17

There are already Aldmeri Dominion, Daggerfall Covenant, and Ebonheart Pact motifs and style materials, so please let the more provincial styles and materials remain as their own things.

If players who don't have ESO Plus and its Crafting Bag are running out of space keeping up with all of the style materials (and other things, such as Provisioning ingredients), I would suggest the following:

(1) Sell off anything you can buy from NPC merchants, since those can be purchased only as needed, in exactly the amounts needed, rather than taking up any inventory, bank, or storage space. If you aren't sure which materials, ingredients, runes, etc. can be purchased from NPC merchants, we (longtime players) can make a detailed list and post it in Players Helping Players.

(2) If you feel like you'd rather keep some crafting materials and ingredients on hand so you can do your daily crafting writs more quickly without having to go buy the required items each time, then learn the specific cycles of crafting writs for your crafting skill levels, and keep only the ingredients, runes, and materials needed to complete those writs.

(3) Also, don't worry about keeping all 9 or 10 of the basic style materials-- for crafting the Breton, Redguard, Orc, High Elf, Wood Elf, Khajiit, Nord, Dark Elf, Argonian, and Imperial styles (which, though sold by NPC merchants like the other 9, has a much rarer crafting motif). Instead, just buy the style material used by a given character's race, since by default they will know the crafting style for their own race and won't need to worry about learning other crafting styles as far as doing the daily writs are concerned. This is only if you want to keep enough materials on hand to do daily writs most quickly; otherwise just buy them as needed as in suggestion (1).

(4) Furthermore, don't worry about keeping crafting materials for all levels of crafting. Instead, keep just the materials used for crafting whatever level of writs the character is currently at. For example, if a character is at Level 50 and over CP 160, but is currently receiving crafting writs for Level 1 because none of the crafting skill lines have been upgraded yet, just keep the materials needed to craft Level 1 writs.

(5) If you want to keep the materials for your current character level so you can craft your own gear, even though you aren't doing writs for that level yet, then fine-- but don't worry about keeping the materials for all of the level in between.

(6) You can still harvest and refine raw materials if you want, but just sell anything you don't need to keep on hand.

(7) Unless you're doing master crafting writs, don't worry about acquiring and keeping the style materials for all of the many other styles in the game. They might not be for sale at the NPC merchants, but you can buy them from guild traders if you need to, or you can use Crown Mimic Stones if the actual style material is too expensive. Crown Mimic Stones are sold in the Crown Store for Crowns, but they are also handed out for free on a fairly regular basis in the daily login rewards, so save the ones you get for free until you really need to use them (to avoid having to buy them from the Crown Store), and try to buy the actual style materials from guild traders.

(8) If you feel like you really, really want to keep everything in order to minimize having to buy anything at guild traders, then create a few mule characters to store some of your stuff on, but don't go over 1 stack of any given material or ingredient.

(9) And if you're a dedicated crafter who feels like you absolutely must keep multiple stacks of everything, then you really ought to subscribe to ESO Plus for the crafting bag, in which case all of the above suggestions aren't needed anyway. I know how horrible it is to try to be a dedicated crafter who likes to keep everything and who uses multiple mule characters rather than paying for ESO Plus, because I played like that for a few years before finally subscribing to ESO Plus.

(10) If you can't afford, or don't want, to keep paying for ESO Plus, then get it for a month and cancel it after that, so all of your accumulated crafting items can go into the Crafting Bag. You won't be able to keep adding more items to the Crafting Bag after your subscription ends, but you will still be able to withdraw items from it.

No major insights in the above suggestions, just trying to enumerate all of the common wisdom that longtime players know but that new players need to learn.

benzenexz · February 17

There are around 120 craftable styles and, not counting the fragmented ones, almost that number of style materials.
So basically equivalent to 2 big storage chests.

I don't have eso+ and will not subscribe, still I can just store them in those chests, or put in crafting bags while there is a free trial.

Learn storage management!

whitecrow · February 17

freespirit wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

I feel that the majority needs to go. Style materials are outdated because of the outfit system. Style pages are also often dirt cheap except for a select few, and some style materials are actually more expensive than their style page. Only a hand full are actually used for crafting furnishings as well, so the rest are filler that clog up your inventory if you're not ESO+.

On a related note, IIRC there was a Q&A that said the reason why we don't have a furnishing bag is because they have to make a column in a new table for each furnishing in the game so it can stack infinitely. This is already done with the craft bag, so adding another one of these tables would cause more strain on the server. There are so many junk materials in the game that go unused across ever craft material category. I would wish that they would get rid of these unused materials so they can use that free space to create a furnishing bag. This would not only make the game better to play without ESO+, but make crafting more streamlined when it comes to materials.

If you do a lot of housing you would be surprised how many of these materials are actually used.

I have a craft bag but I frequently run out of even the most basic materials....

Starmetal - if I'm using Redguard items
Nickel - If I'm using Colovian items
Jejota, denima, rekuta - Every praxis uses these

The list is huge and with the nickel, starmetal, bone, obsidian etc each item uses 15 of each, it adds up really quickly, want ten pretty Redguard cushion, that's 150 starmetal! 🙂

I always run out of nickel doing those winter charity writs for Imperial items. Each requires 2 per piece and 12 pieces for the writ. I used to scrounge around for it until I realized you could buy it from merchants...

kringled_1 · February 17

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

I don't see the problem regardless the amount.

Morag Tong, Daedric, Hollowjack Style, Welkynar, Icereach Coven, Arkthzand Armory, Annihilarch's Chosen, Shardborn, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., have nothing to do with factions.

PS: Please edit the thread title from 9r to of. Thanks.

What does 9r mean?

It looks like it's just the keys above/left of the ones for the word of.

freespirit · February 17

"(2) If you feel like you'd rather keep some crafting materials and ingredients on hand so you can do your daily crafting writs more quickly without having to go buy the required items each time, then learn the specific cycles of crafting writs for your crafting skill levels, and keep only the ingredients, runes, and materials needed to complete those writs."

I mass produce all alchemy and provisioning items for daily crafting writs and keep them in the bank. not sure if it saves space but it certainly saves time!

There are many online guides that tell you what is needed at which level too.

shadyjane62 · February 17

There are so many and they get nerfed so fast I haven't changed gear for 6 years.

Monte_Cristo · February 17

I'd rather they made styles use a combination of 2 or 3 different style materials, instead of 1 unique style material per style.
If there were only 50 style materials, and each style used a combination of 2 of them, how many different styles could that cater for?

SeaGtGruff · February 17

Monte_Cristo wrote: »

I'd rather they made styles use a combination of 2 or 3 different style materials, instead of 1 unique style material per style.
If there were only 50 style materials, and each style used a combination of 2 of them, how many different styles could that cater for?

That's an interesting idea. So Elder Argonian could have used the style mat for Argonian plus another one to make it "Elder," and that other one could also have been used with other basic racial style mats to make Ancestral Breton, Ancestral High Elf, Ancestral Nord, and Ancestral Orc.

AlnilamE · February 17

They should just turn all style materials into Mimic Stones and call it a day.

Danikat · February 17

It's not a problem for me, but it does seem odd to have a unique material for every single style which has no other use besides crafting that style. I'm not sure what purpose it serves, other than contributing to people keeping ESO+ when they otherwise don't want/need it because they don't want to deal with storing all the materials.

Because they put mimic stones into the login rewards it doesn't even stop me crafting styles where I have the motif but not the style material, which I assume is one of the intended purposes (so you'd have to farm wherever they drop, or buy it from someone who farmed it, giving players another reason to keep running old content). Maybe I do a lot less crafting than most people, but I use racial styles for the daily writs so I only need all the other styles for master writs and when I make stuff for myself, and between materials I've picked up and mimic stones I can't remember the last time I had to buy one.

It does seem like an ideal system to be condensed down, like they did with provisioning materials years ago, but I suspect they won't because of the risk some people might decide they don't need ESO+.

Spacefish2323 · February 17

I find the game to be completely unplayable without the craft bag storage, but even with ESO+ managing these lil buggers for master writs can be a pain. Not enough of a pain to buy a mimic stone with real money instead of hitting up TTC and waystone to buy it and go back to the crafting station, more like stubbing your toe and it hurts for a second.

Estin · February 18

freespirit wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

I feel that the majority needs to go. Style materials are outdated because of the outfit system. Style pages are also often dirt cheap except for a select few, and some style materials are actually more expensive than their style page. Only a hand full are actually used for crafting furnishings as well, so the rest are filler that clog up your inventory if you're not ESO+.

On a related note, IIRC there was a Q&A that said the reason why we don't have a furnishing bag is because they have to make a column in a new table for each furnishing in the game so it can stack infinitely. This is already done with the craft bag, so adding another one of these tables would cause more strain on the server. There are so many junk materials in the game that go unused across ever craft material category. I would wish that they would get rid of these unused materials so they can use that free space to create a furnishing bag. This would not only make the game better to play without ESO+, but make crafting more streamlined when it comes to materials.

If you do a lot of housing you would be surprised how many of these materials are actually used.

I have a craft bag but I frequently run out of even the most basic materials....

Starmetal - if I'm using Redguard items
Nickel - If I'm using Colovian items
Jejota, denima, rekuta - Every praxis uses these

The list is huge and with the nickel, starmetal, bone, obsidian etc each item uses 15 of each, it adds up really quickly, want ten pretty Redguard cushion, that's 150 starmetal! 🙂

I've done a lot of housing. It's a lot of base game materials with the odd DLC material. I also don't think anything uses the Level 1-CP160 crafting materials, 90% which are useless. I am certain they can do away with the majority of these crafting items and only leave the small hand full that's used for furnishings while reworking regular crafting so it can reduce the inventory clutter and provide space for a furnishing bag.

Estin · February 18

Danikat wrote: »

It's not a problem for me, but it does seem odd to have a unique material for every single style which has no other use besides crafting that style. I'm not sure what purpose it serves, other than contributing to people keeping ESO+ when they otherwise don't want/need it because they don't want to deal with storing all the materials.

Because they put mimic stones into the login rewards it doesn't even stop me crafting styles where I have the motif but not the style material, which I assume is one of the intended purposes (so you'd have to farm wherever they drop, or buy it from someone who farmed it, giving players another reason to keep running old content). Maybe I do a lot less crafting than most people, but I use racial styles for the daily writs so I only need all the other styles for master writs and when I make stuff for myself, and between materials I've picked up and mimic stones I can't remember the last time I had to buy one.

It does seem like an ideal system to be condensed down, like they did with provisioning materials years ago, but I suspect they won't because of the risk some people might decide they don't need ESO+.

I would wager that the seasonal approach is going to utilize ESO+ to a great degree so there's more of a reason to have it outside the craft bag. I think we can see this with the 2 latest companions. Hopefully we'll see them reduce the bloat so it's not a pain to play the game without ESO+

Rittings · February 19

Suggesting mule characters is funny, because with nearly 200 style mats, that’s a character purely to hold those and those alone… that’s why I said it’s out of hand. I have eso plus, but my issue arises through the scrolling and scrolling to get to the one you need. It’s crazy…. It’s also not even immersive. If you want to craft a German lederhosen, you don’t have to go to Germany and farm the blood of a German goose… you simply learn the style and use your big standard materials like cotton to make the clothing in that style.

Like I say… if style materials must remain, unify them.

ghastley · February 19

This is just one example of the storage creep that happens as new zones get added. New crafted sets means new style materials, but also we get new surveys (alchemy, enchanting, clothier, woodworking, blacksmith), new treasure maps, and sometimes new ingredients for alchemy and provisioning. Some of those you can use immediately, but if they are for a zone you do not yet have, you may want to hold them until you do.

On the other side, there is no steady addition to storage space. We got storage chests and coffers all in one lump, and the only thing added since has been the odd on-combat pet or two, sold for Crowns or gems.

Moving fragments from inventory to collections helped, but is inconsistent. There are still things being added to inventory for new features, without corresponding storage to offload them.

Ideally, inventory should just be for the things the character will use, such as food, gear for alternate builds, potions and poisons, etc. and the things they have looted and will deconstruct/sell periodically.

ZOS tend to take large steps rather than small ones for these QoL things. The storage containers were one, the Grand Master crafting tables were another. Although that one addressed house capacity, not inventory, it did free slots so you could place more of the furnishings you had been carrying around. But they also keep adding new classes of things to go into inventory, like scribing scripts.

It's noticeable that if you don't have DLC's you still get inventory fillers associated with them, such as surveys, treasure maps, loot in DLC styles which give materials when deconstructed. Jewelry requires Summerset to deconstruct it, but the materials can be harvested anywhere, and will drop with metal ores. Leads drop if you don't have Greymoor (OK that doesn't use up inventory, but still...)

Maybe we're due for a big bump in inventory or equivalent again. I would have preferred a gradual increase in maximum inventory to keep up (buying another increment at the bag merchant) but database design probably precludes that.

LootAllTheStuff · February 19

The more I think about it, the more I think the added styles should have leaned into the potions approach. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that you could use a combination of 2 mats for things like Ancient (race) and Ancestral (race), but you could take it a stage further and have combinations of 1, 2, or even 3 from a set of core mats for styles depending on whether they are base game, expansion, or one that only drops in end-game activities such as trials.

Carlos93 · February 19

Style materials shouldn't exist, making things shouldn't depend on having style materials.

Not being able to craft things just because you don't have style materials that many are obtained randomly from dungeons is very annoying for players.

katanagirl1 · February 19

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more I think the added styles should have leaned into the potions approach. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that you could use a combination of 2 mats for things like Ancient (race) and Ancestral (race), but you could take it a stage further and have combinations of 1, 2, or even 3 from a set of core mats for styles depending on whether they are base game, expansion, or one that only drops in end-game activities such as trials.

While this idea may sound good on paper, I am not so sure that it would help. The crafting process is already a bit complicated with style mats and trait mats and enchants, this adds another layer of complexity and possibly error. I wouldn’t want to have to look this stuff up every time I craft something.

I agree the number of styles has gotten out of hand but the system seems designed to pump out new sets at every opportunity. It’s like the main reason to sell new content.