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Solution to fake tank/healer/dps in rnd dungeons
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shezof✭✭✭you can complete normal dungeons dlc included with 3 dds. you can complete most normal dungeons with 4 dds.
Extreme casual playstyle hurts this game. just slot vigor, block and dodge sometimes and you re set. Stop trying to fix other people that you cant control and focus on what you can do for yourself.4 -
Taril✭✭✭✭✭There is none. Seriously.
There is. But it comes at the expense of freedom.
You can force certain requirements to queue for a specific role to enforce roles and eliminate "Fake Roles" (For example, other MMO's will have a class/spec be limited to being able to queue for only its designated role)
Those requirements would be very weak.
Except, the weaker the requirements, the less effective such a thing would be.
If the requirement for queuing as a tank was simply "Have a Taunt in one of your 12 skill slots" would that stop people fake queuing?
No. It just means that the DPS that is signing up for the wrong role, just slaps on a Taunt skill to their back bar and continues just being a DPS.One thing that can be done is to require a demonstration of proficiency at the role to queue for dungeons. There can be multiple levels of proficiency for normal and vet dungeons. FF14 has a system similar to what I am discussing. Getting "certified" does not mean someone will focus on that role to the same degree when in an actual dungeon, it makes them prove they can get something done.
Aye. I covered this sort of system too.
Doesn't do anything to stop fake queuing at all. Someone can pass the Tank or Healer proficiency and then go queue up as full DPS in those roles.
The way it functions in other games such as FFXIV and WoW is that classes and specs are restricted to specific roles. You simply cannot in any circumstance queue as a Tank or Healer as say a Samurai or Frost Death Knight. Even if you've passed the proficiencies, you are hard locked into a set role by your class/spec.
This is different to how it would work in ESO wherein part of the problem is the inherent freedom in builds. Maybe you did pass the proficiency for Tanking on your character in a full on Tank build that is set up to properly tank... But now you've changed gear and skills and are now playing full on glass cannon DD on the same character with literally nothing denoting this change in build.
Hence why I referenced it requiring some sort of Armoury style build saving to function in ESO. Since if a particular build was saved upon completion of a proficiency, then the game can ensure that the build that completed the proficiency is the one being used in actual content. (With of course, the notable caveat of how annoying it would be to change anything in your build under such a system - With you needing to re-aquire proficiency for every change you make)0 -
AzuraFan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Most of the frustration from it is stemming from missing out on things people wanted like chests and story quests. Those are the biggest complaints. I think a lot of people wouldn't mind a fast past if they weren't constantly missing out on stuff they needed.
Do you run a lot with pugs? The reason speedrunning is frustrating is because it's a miserable experience for everyone but the speedrunner, regardless of what people want from the dungeon.
Anyway, speedrunning is a different discussion. Your proposal of mailing everyone loot they missed and despawning mobs would encourage the speedrunners. We disagree on whether speedrunning is a thing that should be encouraged/discouraged, but that's a tangent.you can complete normal dungeons dlc included with 3 dds. you can complete most normal dungeons with 4 dds.
Agreed for normal, though a tank can make the run go more smoothly. Otherwise, on normal, some players kite the boss all over the place if they have aggro, making it more difficult to lay down AoE's and such. But still completely doable, for sure. I think the fake tank/fake healer issue only really affects vet dungeons in a bad way. Having said that, I would never queue for a fake role.1 -
Warhawke_80✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »1. Make a story mode. It only gives you the quest and exp (including the exp for the undaunted) and nothing more. It does not contain group drops, leads and cannot be used to complete pledges or the random dailies. This way people can hear the story and complete the quest on their own terms.
As much as it pains me to say this...never going to happen...ESO's difficulty is going up not down...Zenimax has been very clear who they want as their audience...it's one of the reasons so many casuals are leaving...fortunately other MMO's actually want the casual community in their game..so no great loss.
However, It's going to be interesting where this game is in three years without the casual player base.
Zenimax already said that a story mode is on their to do list but not coming soon.
They said that a couple years ago....the recent producers letter tells be they are going back before one Tamriel...time will tell though““Elric knew. The sword told him, without words of any sort. Stormbringer needed to fight, for that was its reason for existence...”― Michael Moorcock, Elric of Melniboné0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Warhawke_80 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »1. Make a story mode. It only gives you the quest and exp (including the exp for the undaunted) and nothing more. It does not contain group drops, leads and cannot be used to complete pledges or the random dailies. This way people can hear the story and complete the quest on their own terms.
As much as it pains me to say this...never going to happen...ESO's difficulty is going up not down...Zenimax has been very clear who they want as their audience...it's one of the reasons so many casuals are leaving...fortunately other MMO's actually want the casual community in their game..so no great loss.
However, It's going to be interesting where this game is in three years without the casual player base.
Zenimax already said that a story mode is on their to do list but not coming soon.
They said that a couple years ago....the recent producers letter tells be they are going back before one Tamriel...time will tell though
They said it in January of last year. I think we'll know more in April but the studio letter struck me more along the lines of wanting to address some long standing complaints.1 -
MidniteOwl1913✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Zodiarkslayer wrote: »
Indeed. It is a human problem. But there is still one solution and that is to remove the motivation that leads to the "human behavior".There is none. Seriously. You're asking for a technical control to apply to a HUMAN issue. ...
So, remove the guaranteed 10 Transmute Crystals from the rewards.
Done. Problem solved. 🤷♂️
Except you still get people doing gear farming runs.
There's rarely a cure for human selfishness without punishing everyone.
But they want at least kill and loot. It's not just a race to the end to get the transmutes. Removing the transmutes would go a long way to solving the problem.PS5/NA0 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »Zodiarkslayer wrote: »
Indeed. It is a human problem. But there is still one solution and that is to remove the motivation that leads to the "human behavior".There is none. Seriously. You're asking for a technical control to apply to a HUMAN issue. ...
So, remove the guaranteed 10 Transmute Crystals from the rewards.
Done. Problem solved. 🤷♂️
Except you still get people doing gear farming runs.
There's rarely a cure for human selfishness without punishing everyone.
But they want at least kill and loot. It's not just a race to the end to get the transmutes. Removing the transmutes would go a long way to solving the problem.
This has been already discussed time and again.
It really won't. People will still speedrun for daily XP chunk. Remove XP, they will speedrun if farming for gear (only the last boss drops most of the wanted gear). Remove that -> get a very long queue because why would you return to a dungeon again unless you are there on an alt for the skill point/initial undaunted XP chunk?6 -
valenwood_vegan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah I mean maybe it would be a fun experiment for a week or two. Remove all rewards from the random dungeon queue and watch the complaints change to "I had to wait 47 hours in the queue for my scalecaller quest run and we couldn't complete it because everyone was new". OP is kinda right, it's not some simple thing to create a programming solution to a human problem. I've always said the real solution is to join some guilds, make some friends, communicate with people, and group up that way instead of randomly.3 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Zodiarkslayer wrote: »
Indeed. It is a human problem. But there is still one solution and that is to remove the motivation that leads to the "human behavior".There is none. Seriously. You're asking for a technical control to apply to a HUMAN issue. ...
So, remove the guaranteed 10 Transmute Crystals from the rewards.
Done. Problem solved. 🤷♂️
And break the dungeon finder.
Like it or not, fake roles in random normals speed up the queue significantly.6 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is none. Seriously.
There is. But it comes at the expense of freedom.
You can force certain requirements to queue for a specific role to enforce roles and eliminate "Fake Roles" (For example, other MMO's will have a class/spec be limited to being able to queue for only its designated role)
Those requirements would be very weak.
Except, the weaker the requirements, the less effective such a thing would be.
If the requirement for queuing as a tank was simply "Have a Taunt in one of your 12 skill slots" would that stop people fake queuing?
No. It just means that the DPS that is signing up for the wrong role, just slaps on a Taunt skill to their back bar and continues just being a DPS.One thing that can be done is to require a demonstration of proficiency at the role to queue for dungeons. There can be multiple levels of proficiency for normal and vet dungeons. FF14 has a system similar to what I am discussing. Getting "certified" does not mean someone will focus on that role to the same degree when in an actual dungeon, it makes them prove they can get something done.
Aye. I covered this sort of system too.
Doesn't do anything to stop fake queuing at all. Someone can pass the Tank or Healer proficiency and then go queue up as full DPS in those roles.
The way it functions in other games such as FFXIV and WoW is that classes and specs are restricted to specific roles. You simply cannot in any circumstance queue as a Tank or Healer as say a Samurai or Frost Death Knight. Even if you've passed the proficiencies, you are hard locked into a set role by your class/spec.
This is different to how it would work in ESO wherein part of the problem is the inherent freedom in builds. Maybe you did pass the proficiency for Tanking on your character in a full on Tank build that is set up to properly tank... But now you've changed gear and skills and are now playing full on glass cannon DD on the same character with literally nothing denoting this change in build.
Hence why I referenced it requiring some sort of Armoury style build saving to function in ESO. Since if a particular build was saved upon completion of a proficiency, then the game can ensure that the build that completed the proficiency is the one being used in actual content. (With of course, the notable caveat of how annoying it would be to change anything in your build under such a system - With you needing to re-aquire proficiency for every change you make)
As I said about tanking, it would only require having it slotted. Nothing can make the player actually use it outside of threat of being kicked. I also noted that nothing could make the player play the role to the same degree as they did in the proficiency test.
Forcing players to tank in the same build they passed the proficiency test is not a good solution. Sometimes, a tank, speaking of a real tank, will want to equip different gear or skills. Of course, I am talking to a tank that is experienced, knows what they are doing, and is familiar with the dungeon.
Expounding on the armory suggestion. it also means that DPS and healers would be forced into a specific build. If heals are not that great, then the DD could not change their build to increase their survival. The suggestion is just as problematic as the fake tank issue is. This leads back to the only real solution I noted in my previous post.
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magnusthorek✭✭✭✭✭
✭I haven't thought thoroughly but, from the top of my mind, I believe Tanks could/should have at least one taunt skill; at least 20-25k resistance and 25-30k of HP; while Healers should have a Restoration Staff (you'd be surprised…) and at least one healing skill outside the Restoration skill line.
Additionally, to address a possible problem with fake-tanks/healers not using slotted skills on random queued groups, a portion of the enemies *could* auto-aggro the one with most HP/resistance, as an educated guess that that person is the tank; and by computing the average healing issued during the first quarter of the grouped task (i.e. until first boss), if it doesn't meet a minimum amount, group gets a healing buff, either increase their HP or Health Regen.
Then, if fake-tanks build setups to bypass those checks and switch to their usual fake-tanking build after porting in, game could perform an integrity check and if previous conditions aren't met any more a confirmation pop-up could be presented to the rest of the group, like “Player X assigned as Y switched gear to less than the minimum requirements for the role of Y. would you want to continue?”. With three denials, whoever switched is kicked automatically.Edited by magnusthorek on January 19, 2025 11:38AMI am the very model of a scientist Salarian, I've studied species Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology) because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).
My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian, I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian.1 -
M0ntie✭✭✭✭✭There are solutions. Here is a suggestion that doesn't require a major rewrite of the game.
1) Story mode - can be solo, no enemies, no dungeon set gear drops. Can have containers and hs.
2) Dungeon finder to have an option for "play however" so that people who are OK with a 4 dps run can have that. No roles expected.
3) Roles expected and rewarded mode for dungeon finder. People are expected to fulfil their role. If you queue as tank and don't hold taunt the most, you don't get the final rewards. If you queue as healer and don't heal the most, you don't get the final rewards. If you queue as dps and aren't in the top 2 dps, you don't get the final rewards.2 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why does no one want to tank hardly?
For me I find tanking the most visually unappealing role to watch.
You look like you're swinging a wet noodle.
You have no visual indication of the effectiveness of your debuffs on the Enemy (But boy do I love cracked armor Anthelmir effect)
Unlike DPS who have a plethora of sets that amplify their existing skills and can look flashy, most tank gear is about providing buffs/debuffs that no skills in the game provide, limiting your options.
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Reginald_leBlem✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is none. Seriously. You're asking for a technical control to apply to a HUMAN issue. Not going to work out well. I DO like the idea of more crystals for vet rnd, but that's the carrot approach that will only get you so far. What you're seeing when someone is rude/ignores etiquette/etc.. is a people problem...one that can only truly be solved by that same person from WITHIN, not from pressure from the outside.
THAT SAID....you have these options:- Leave the dungeon (it will come around again...trust me).
- Be prepared to play any role. Gear changing addons are a help.
- Consider it a challenge to play the dungeon with the missing role.
I usually choose the second and third. I have a toon that hasn't hit all dungeons yet..if I think I'll have the quest, I let the group know. If they speed through, I speed through...if not, I do the quest. Adapt to the group, even though it may not be 100% beneficial for you.
Actually there is an insanely simple, easy fix that will enable you to do as many random dungeons as you want, without ever encountering a fake tank!
Ready?
Make a tank and que on it.
That's it. That's the solution.
If everyone that complained about fake tanks made a tank, this problem would be over.0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Reginald_leBlem wrote: »There is none. Seriously. You're asking for a technical control to apply to a HUMAN issue. Not going to work out well. I DO like the idea of more crystals for vet rnd, but that's the carrot approach that will only get you so far. What you're seeing when someone is rude/ignores etiquette/etc.. is a people problem...one that can only truly be solved by that same person from WITHIN, not from pressure from the outside.
THAT SAID....you have these options:- Leave the dungeon (it will come around again...trust me).
- Be prepared to play any role. Gear changing addons are a help.
- Consider it a challenge to play the dungeon with the missing role.
I usually choose the second and third. I have a toon that hasn't hit all dungeons yet..if I think I'll have the quest, I let the group know. If they speed through, I speed through...if not, I do the quest. Adapt to the group, even though it may not be 100% beneficial for you.
Actually there is an insanely simple, easy fix that will enable you to do as many random dungeons as you want, without ever encountering a fake tank!
Ready?
Make a tank and que on it.
That's it. That's the solution.
If everyone that complained about fake tanks made a tank, this problem would be over.
If didn't care about having to deal with aggro, they probably wouldn't mind fake tanks as much in the first place. A lot of these complaints are from people who patiently wait a good amount of time to avoid taking it, only to have it tossed on them anyway by an inconsiderate line skipper.0 -
Ardriel✭✭✭✭✭I think the easiest solution would be to increase the difficulty level for vet non DLC dungeons. To the extent that fake tanking is made impossible. You see far fewer fake tanks in vet DLC dungeons. ( I'm not talking about the fake healers, they don't matter, halfway good players don't need healers in 4-man content and normal dungeons can be done with 4 dps.)
Non DLC dungeons are no longer up to date. There is insane damage in the game. People are cutting through the content like hot iron through butter. Attempts have been made to reduce the damage output, but this has not been successful in the long term. So you have to adapt the content. But I can already see that from the same corner where people complain about fake tanks, the complaints will come as soon as things get more difficult.
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Sailor_Palutena✭✭✭✭The simple solution would be a skill/gear check. Does the character has any tank gear?
Shield/Frost staff? At least a TAUNT button? Missing any of the above, should make the option to queue for these whole UNAVAILABLE.
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sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There are solutions. Here is a suggestion that doesn't require a major rewrite of the game.
1) Story mode - can be solo, no enemies, no dungeon set gear drops. Can have containers and hs.
2) Dungeon finder to have an option for "play however" so that people who are OK with a 4 dps run can have that. No roles expected.
3) Roles expected and rewarded mode for dungeon finder. People are expected to fulfil their role. If you queue as tank and don't hold taunt the most, you don't get the final rewards. If you queue as healer and don't heal the most, you don't get the final rewards. If you queue as dps and aren't in the top 2 dps, you don't get the final rewards.
I can outdamage a beginner dps while I'm in a healer spec that would meet your healer requirements.
Do I get double rewards?2 -
ESO_player123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sailor_Palutena wrote: »The simple solution would be a skill/gear check. Does the character has any tank gear?
Shield/Frost staff? At least a TAUNT button? Missing any of the above, should make the option to queue for these whole UNAVAILABLE.
What will prevent them from switching back to DPS while in the dungeon? Prevent everyone from switching the skills while inside? That will not go well.1 -
majulook✭✭✭✭✭
✭The whole thing come down to... Why is there a shortage of real tanks?
Lots of players have left the game, and even in the early days of ESO there were fewer Tanks than any other role. Now most new starting players normally do not create Tanks, they make DPS as most guides recommend a DPS as better / faster to level and finish quests. The new player becomes comfortable with there DPS and gets to level 50 and starts getting CP. These players now are getting CP and are try to get to CP 160. They don't see the why they should create a new charterer since the new one will not earn them any new CP until that character is level 50.So they are continue on with there DPS to CP 160. and beyond.
Si vis pacem, para bellum0 -
JinKC98✭✭✭4th Option: Boot/Vote kick these fake Tank/Healer/DPS each time you see them. Been doing this for 3.2k hours into the game and will keep doing it till the end times of Tamriel.3
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Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭I don't know off the top of my head if there are any normal dungeons that can't be tanked by a shield mashing <basically any build with a taunt>. Maybe the newest DLC ones? I haven't done those yet, but I've been spamming some imperial city dungeons on normal and tanking them in my sorcerer (who is in bright-throat/shacklebreaker) while also keeping the entire group warded with contingency.
I sometimes wonder if part of why there are less tanks might be due to the lack of tank mechanics that provide feedback. Like healer, it's binary - people (or you, in this case) are either alive or you aren't. DPS get pretty numbers which make brain go brrrrr, tanks do not. It's probably a bit late for this, but I REALLY enjoyed tanking in TERA, in which you *could* hold block the entire time to block boss attacks, but you could also get 'perfect' blocks that did other stuff. Giving tanks stuff to do outside of taping down their block button and managing buffs could go a long way to fixing some issues.0 -
Artim_X✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭4th option, initiate a kick for bad actors, which can lead to two new options.
•Run dungeon without replacing. Normal dungeons realistically only require 1 properly built player and maybe a second player for one shot interrupt mechanics.
•Replace the kicked player and complete dungeon.
*side note* there is nothing wrong with fast runs with no support roles filled, but this depends on what the group goals are (ex: kill everything as we go, quest, loot all the things, etc.). When you run with random pugs, you best leave your expectations at the door and don't expect others to be able to read your mind (communicate in group chat if there is a easily fixable problem).(AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanistElectric-Stunhttps://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gifElectric-Pets- Roleplay Damage Dealing Build.
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Kinras's jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Shocking Soul (Shock damage, Class Mastery Signature Script, and Empower), and Power Overload.
- Ability-Bar 2: Storm Pulsar, Streak, Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Storms, Shocking Burst (Shock Damage, remove 1 negative effect, and interrupt) and Thunderous Rage.
Solo: Use Kinras's chest, replace Mora with Ring of the Pale Order, and use a heavy Slimcraw piece for max critical.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNHVjemwxZHI2ZmQ2bTg1ZG0xOTZ3b2QwajBzNGxmaHh6OXRpN3p6YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/eBgWizk5dmZRS/giphy.gifElectric-Heal- Stress free one bar pet build .
- Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants. No chest piece), 1 medium Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, medium, Max Mag Enchants), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant ring and necklace (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant), Oakensoul ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)
- Ability-Bar: Daedric Prey, Summon Volatile Familiar, Bound Armaments, Unstable Wall of Storms, Summon Twilight Matriarch, and Greater storm Atronach.
https://media.giphy.com/media/5ibGIHneWS6ek/giphy.gifElectric-Ward- My Healer Build.
- Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
- Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gifElectric-Vamp- My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
- Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Iceheart (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Prismatic Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), Combat Physician restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and combat physician ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
- Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gifDawnfang- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable with Prismatic Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Prismtaic Enchants). Knight Slayer (Swift with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
- Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Regenerative Ward, and Shatter Soul.
https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gifDuskfang- My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that primarily utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward/Breath of life, and Crescent Sweep.
https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gifEye of the Queen- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/44/1c/fd441c8242af6ec35ada94496feb0901.gifEye of the King- My casual one bar heavy attack Arcanist build that primarily utilizes Herald of the Tome abilities.
- Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Pragmatic Fatecarver, Cephaliarch's Flail, Rune of Displacement, Inspired Scholarship/Evolving Runemend, and The Languid Eye.
https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOTAzdjV1eTgwbDFmM3lrZmxuMXRqdDR3Y3h1ZDRpajR0M3VjZzQ3NSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/zXmbOaTpbY6mA/giphy.gifPvE Starter Gear- Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
- Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
- Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Race Against Time, Rune of Uncanny Adoration, Evolving Runemend, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gifRace- Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
- Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gifMundus Stones- High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gifCurrent Champion Points- PvP: The Steed for speed. Gotta go fast!
- PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
- PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gifFavorite Foods and Potions- DPS: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
- PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
- PvP Temp/Arcanist: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif- Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
- Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
- Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
- Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar/arcanist will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
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ZhuJiuyin✭✭✭✭✭Maybe for "Normal Difficulty" Dungeons (which is the difficulty most casual players choose, as well as when the player is farming or RND), it should be mandatory to give each position specific buffs, for example: Tank: Your attacks increase the target's hatred by 100 %, the damage you receive is reduced by 50%, and the damage you cause is reduced by 50%; DPS: your skill damage is increased by 50%; Treatment: the treatment caused is increased by 50%, and the teammates within 12 feet are treated for X points of health every 2 seconds .
This should solve the problem of fake characters, and allow developers to adjust the balance of skills and sets to the end-game difficulty (HM Trials, high-end PVP), or at least the medium level (such as veteran trials, medium PVP)."是燭九陰，是燭龍。"──by "The Classic of Mountains and Seas "English is not my first language,If something is ambiguous, rude due to context and translation issues, etc., please remind me, thanks.0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Reginald_leBlem wrote: »There is none. Seriously. You're asking for a technical control to apply to a HUMAN issue. Not going to work out well. I DO like the idea of more crystals for vet rnd, but that's the carrot approach that will only get you so far. What you're seeing when someone is rude/ignores etiquette/etc.. is a people problem...one that can only truly be solved by that same person from WITHIN, not from pressure from the outside.
THAT SAID....you have these options:- Leave the dungeon (it will come around again...trust me).
- Be prepared to play any role. Gear changing addons are a help.
- Consider it a challenge to play the dungeon with the missing role.
I usually choose the second and third. I have a toon that hasn't hit all dungeons yet..if I think I'll have the quest, I let the group know. If they speed through, I speed through...if not, I do the quest. Adapt to the group, even though it may not be 100% beneficial for you.
Actually there is an insanely simple, easy fix that will enable you to do as many random dungeons as you want, without ever encountering a fake tank!
Ready?
Make a tank and que on it.
That's it. That's the solution.
If everyone that complained about fake tanks made a tank, this problem would be over.
That leaves out a couple of important details.
The tank build is an alt build. When a fake tank is added to the group vote kick them out. Send them packing. Kick them to the curb.
Then swap to that alt tank build and be the hero for the group all while teaching the fake tanks a lesson.
'
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colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Always pains me greatly when people who genuinely like the dungeons aren't engaging with guilds suitable for those, as this is the best experience you can get and have full control of the situation.
There is a partial fix though. The main issue imo is a broken quest sequence (still not enough time after to finish the quest is also included) that is still happens and pledges requiring more than a last boss. Both are fixable by quest auto advancing to the last stage like in many other dungeons and pledge requiring strictly the last boss.
If the issue was about looting all the barrels and specific pace for the group there is no solution exists but helping yourself getting like kinded group of people, there's no other way around specific needs. Most people want do things fast and will always do, no artificial road bumps would help.0 -
James-Wayne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stop making content for the holy trinity and create content any player regardless of build can achieve. It's been done with IA through buffs and synergies so it can done for dungeons as well.
Solved.PERTH, AUSTRALIA | PC | NA | @Aussie-Elders
TENTH ANNIVERSARY - Thanks for sticking with us for 10 years.
James-Wayne you earned this badge 9:56AM on 4th of February 2024.
529 people have also earned this badge.2 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭James-Wayne wrote: »Stop making content for the holy trinity and create content any player regardless of build can achieve. It's been done with IA through buffs and synergies so it can done for dungeons as well.
Solved.
Why though? Random normal dungeon behaviour isn't indicative of what people who do actually play dungeons enjoy or want. People who "main" dungeons do like the "trinity", that's why they're playing it and not just doing solo arenas instead. Making a boss rush can be a separate option for a new type of content more akin to boss hunts like Monster Hunter or an upscaled world boss/dragon where you don't really need a proper tank but can simply zerg it down. Changing existing dungeon formula is definitely far from doing any good imo.2 -
Taril✭✭✭✭✭colossalvoids wrote: »People who "main" dungeons do like the "trinity", that's why they're playing it and not just doing solo arenas instead.
People who "Main" dungeons aren't doing Normals. They're doing Vets.
People who are doing Normal Dungeons are doing them because they need to farm the rewards that are exclusive to Normal dungeons (I.e. Dungeon gear sets, Tramutation Stones, Leads, Class Script Scraps). They literally cannot just go solo Arenas because these things don't drop in Arenas (They also can't just solo the dungeon because some of these rewards are tied to the "Random Dungeon" bonus loot or the dungeons themselves have stupid "You need 2 players to progress" mechanics).
Then there's the subsection of players whom are doing their initial run through on characters to complete quests for the Skill Point and Undaunted skill line progress that is unique to each dungeon (And is most quickly/easily done via Normals than Vets)
There very well could be Normals tuned down to pathetic levels of difficulty so that roles are irrelevant (I mean, most base game Dungeons already are) and "Dungeon Mains" would be entirely unaffected. Since Vet content need not be impacted at all.1 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I used to be a PvE Tank but nowadays I am just solo-ing dungeons. And if stuff is not possible to do solo, then I am not doing it. For me it is just a better experience.
Now, the reason why I gave up on Tanking is because it is far too stressful & far too unrewarding for all of the stuff you have to do.
You are expected to lead. If someone rushes & dies - it is your fault.
You are expected to taunt EVERYTHING. If you don't taunt at least one mob or dps will randomly get aggroed by a boss - it is your fault.
You are expected to survive every one-shot on your own, so that the healer can focus on healing dps players. If you die - it is your fault.
To add, you are also expected not to do any kind of dps. If you do too much (even 20 - 30k) then you are doing more than terrible dps that is not doing their job well and lengthen the boss figh to absurd levels. On top of that ppl will accuse you of being "fake tank" if add-on will tell them that you did more dps than them (since they are terrible at it), resulting in vote-kicking the tank (yes... it actually happened).
The final point is that you get NOTHING for all that effort. DPS players get at least a number. Tanks ? For all the hell & responsibility they give ? There is very little reward for all that effort. That is why you see less & less "true" pve tanks in Dungeons.5
