Lamp Knight's Art makes no sense.

MincMincMinc · January 13

Medium – Lamp Knight’s Art

2 – Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
3 – Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
4 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
5 – Gain 100000 Offensive Penetration. Reduce your damage done by 46%.

Can we please think this through for a sec.

a typical player in pvp has 28k resists after breach debuffs they are at around 19k resists which is equivalent to 28.8% mitigation. So this set basically gives 28.8% damage done and reduces your damage done by 46%. Even if you go Nirn Greatsword you wont make up the 17% damage loss.

Avran_Sylt · January 13

Wonder how that damage reduction interacts with things like Minor/Major protection, Evasion, or other sets that provide “reduced damage from players”.

MincMincMinc · January 13

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Wonder how that damage reduction interacts with things like Minor/Major protection, Evasion, or other sets that provide “reduced damage from players”.

It wouldn't interact with the enemies mit buffs.

For you It should be flat additively(subtract in this case) with your damage done buffs.

Estin · January 13

Yeah, I'm having a hard time trying to figure this out too. The set itself basically ignores penetration, and the hard cap for damage reduction is at 33k for 50%. This set will only be effective if the player you're fighting is at or above 33k resistances AFTER debuffs. Anything less and it's a damage loss.

Thumbless_Bot · January 13

It basically removes all resists.

So. If you build for pure damage and don't build i to pen, say with 5 medium and two damage modifiers sets like deadly, or pure damage sets like [enter set with lots of weapon damage] it might hit real hard... or not...

Who knows.

Avran_Sylt · January 13

Estin wrote: »

Yeah, I'm having a hard time trying to figure this out too. The set itself basically ignores penetration, and the hard cap for damage reduction is at 33k for 50%. This set will only be effective if the player you're fighting is at or above 33k resistances AFTER debuffs. Anything less and it's a damage loss.

I think that’s the point, it effectively normalizes your damage against any enemy, regarding physical/spell resistance. You can approach every enemy “the same”, to a degree. (Though you wouldn’t be able to tell easily if martial or magic or neither has an advantage from the armor types)

(And you still need to contend with healing/shields, health pools, and other sources of damage reduction).

You also don’t need to build penetration at all, and can focus on other stats like Crit, use a sword instead of a maul, precise or charged, etc. instead of sharpened.

As to if all the bits and pieces added together make it better than a proc set? Who knows.

MincMincMinc · January 13

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

It basically removes all resists.

So. If you build for pure damage and don't build i to pen, say with 5 medium and two damage modifiers sets like deadly, or pure damage sets like [enter set with lots of weapon damage] it might hit real hard... or not...

Who knows.

Well it is/can only ever be worth what your enemy is running for resists post debuff. So at most it can be worth 50% if an enemy has 42k resists(breach brings it down to 33k cap or 50%).......only then would the set be a gain of 4% damage done.

The secondary benefit is swapping frontbar weapons off of mace/maul sharp to axes/swords nirn. Again in my OP you need to make up a 17% damage loss by adding a Gaxe nirn and a skill slot if you drop breach. Only then would you be making out even..... so you would basically be down a 5 piece set in the end.

MincMincMinc · January 13

I should clarify that this set is an amazing idea from zos. Kiss curse sets open up alot of crazy doors in theorycrafting.

In this case, a completely different build path could be open to get away from the meta BIS

Drop Sharp Maul for Nirn Gsword(Gaxe on acuity build)
Drop ele sus since you dont need breach
Drop phys damage for bleed damage sources since you dont need sunder
Run vigor on frontbar to be boosted by Nirn Gsword bonuses, then powered backbar to buff the ticks after swapping.

Lystrad · January 13

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

Yeah, I'm having a hard time trying to figure this out too. The set itself basically ignores penetration, and the hard cap for damage reduction is at 33k for 50%. This set will only be effective if the player you're fighting is at or above 33k resistances AFTER debuffs. Anything less and it's a damage loss.

I think that’s the point, it effectively normalizes your damage against any enemy, regarding physical/spell resistance. You can approach every enemy “the same”, to a degree. (Though you wouldn’t be able to tell easily if martial or magic or neither has an advantage from the armor types)

(And you still need to contend with healing/shields, health pools, and other sources of damage reduction).

You also don’t need to build penetration at all, and can focus on other stats like Crit, use a sword instead of a maul, precise or charged, etc. instead of sharpened.

As to if all the bits and pieces added together make it better than a proc set? Who knows.

The normalized damage is nice in theory and it does seem like it will have moments of usefulness (and the increased weapon variety can't be understated) but I feel like the problem with it ends up being, it makes anyone who builds full tank slightly less tanky against you, but anyone who builds glassy or is poorly optimized becomes significantly more difficult to kill so it ends up being a set that actively nerfs you unless the ratio of tanks to non tanks in engagements that you're fighting heavily favors tanks.

It would be far more practical in my opinion if the set reduced damage by 25-30%, normalizing the damage to enemies in the medium armor range instead of putting every enemy just shy of capped heavy armor.

MincMincMinc · January 13

Lystrad wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

Yeah, I'm having a hard time trying to figure this out too. The set itself basically ignores penetration, and the hard cap for damage reduction is at 33k for 50%. This set will only be effective if the player you're fighting is at or above 33k resistances AFTER debuffs. Anything less and it's a damage loss.

I think that’s the point, it effectively normalizes your damage against any enemy, regarding physical/spell resistance. You can approach every enemy “the same”, to a degree. (Though you wouldn’t be able to tell easily if martial or magic or neither has an advantage from the armor types)

(And you still need to contend with healing/shields, health pools, and other sources of damage reduction).

You also don’t need to build penetration at all, and can focus on other stats like Crit, use a sword instead of a maul, precise or charged, etc. instead of sharpened.

As to if all the bits and pieces added together make it better than a proc set? Who knows.

The normalized damage is nice in theory and it does seem like it will have moments of usefulness (and the increased weapon variety can't be understated) but I feel like the problem with it ends up being, it makes anyone who builds full tank slightly less tanky against you, but anyone who builds glassy or is poorly optimized becomes significantly more harder to kill so it ends up being a set that actively nerfs you unless the ratio of tanks to non tanks in engagements that you're fighting heavily favors tanks.

It would be far more practical if the set reduced damage by 25-30%, normalizing the damage to enemies in the medium armor range instead of putting every enemy just shy of capped heavy armor.

Agreed the set must be changed to sit around a 25% damage done reduction. For your average high mmr post debuff enemy they have 19k resists(29% mit) So this set would provide a 4% damage done buff on average with the bonus of being able to drop breach and swap away from sharp maul to nirn Gsword

Thumbless_Bot · January 13

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

It basically removes all resists.

So. If you build for pure damage and don't build i to pen, say with 5 medium and two damage modifiers sets like deadly, or pure damage sets like [enter set with lots of weapon damage] it might hit real hard... or not...

Who knows.

Well it is/can only ever be worth what your enemy is running for resists post debuff. So at most it can be worth 50% if an enemy has 42k resists(breach brings it down to 33k cap or 50%).......only then would the set be a gain of 4% damage done.

The secondary benefit is swapping frontbar weapons off of mace/maul sharp to axes/swords nirn. Again in my OP you need to make up a 17% damage loss by adding a Gaxe nirn and a skill slot if you drop breach. Only then would you be making out even..... so you would basically be down a 5 piece set in the end.

Yeah, it needs testing for sure, but you are probably right. I would like to know where the 46% came from. If you sre right, it seems doa.

MincMincMinc · January 13

So say the enemy has 19k resists after debuffs(28k resists tanky enemy) This brings us to need 17% damage done and a 5 piece bonus for this set to be worth it. We get the benefit of running a Nirn GSword which accounts for 494wd which basically makes up for a 5 piece bonus only on your frontbar.

The only other trade is to drop ele sus and pick some other skill worth 17% damage done. Keep in mind that if the enemy is squishier you need more % damage to justify it. So for a 24k resist player pre buff youd need 23% damage done from a skill.

Avran_Sylt · January 13

Lystrad wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

Yeah, I'm having a hard time trying to figure this out too. The set itself basically ignores penetration, and the hard cap for damage reduction is at 33k for 50%. This set will only be effective if the player you're fighting is at or above 33k resistances AFTER debuffs. Anything less and it's a damage loss.

I think that’s the point, it effectively normalizes your damage against any enemy, regarding physical/spell resistance. You can approach every enemy “the same”, to a degree. (Though you wouldn’t be able to tell easily if martial or magic or neither has an advantage from the armor types)

(And you still need to contend with healing/shields, health pools, and other sources of damage reduction).

You also don’t need to build penetration at all, and can focus on other stats like Crit, use a sword instead of a maul, precise or charged, etc. instead of sharpened.

As to if all the bits and pieces added together make it better than a proc set? Who knows.

The normalized damage is nice in theory and it does seem like it will have moments of usefulness (and the increased weapon variety can't be understated) but I feel like the problem with it ends up being, it makes anyone who builds full tank slightly less tanky against you, but anyone who builds glassy or is poorly optimized becomes significantly more difficult to kill so it ends up being a set that actively nerfs you unless the ratio of tanks to non tanks in engagements that you're fighting heavily favors tanks.

It would be far more practical in my opinion if the set reduced damage by 25-30%, normalizing the damage to enemies in the medium armor range instead of putting every enemy just shy of capped heavy armor.

As it is now: it has a niche. In a group your allies will be popping the squishies, and you'll be the one focusing on those players that look like they're not taking much damage at all from other players.

A tankbuster set. (even though most players source tankyness from healing, shields, and blocking anyway)

That being said, 46% reduction might be too much lost damage.

MincMincMinc · January 13

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Lystrad wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Estin wrote: »

Yeah, I'm having a hard time trying to figure this out too. The set itself basically ignores penetration, and the hard cap for damage reduction is at 33k for 50%. This set will only be effective if the player you're fighting is at or above 33k resistances AFTER debuffs. Anything less and it's a damage loss.

I think that’s the point, it effectively normalizes your damage against any enemy, regarding physical/spell resistance. You can approach every enemy “the same”, to a degree. (Though you wouldn’t be able to tell easily if martial or magic or neither has an advantage from the armor types)

(And you still need to contend with healing/shields, health pools, and other sources of damage reduction).

You also don’t need to build penetration at all, and can focus on other stats like Crit, use a sword instead of a maul, precise or charged, etc. instead of sharpened.

As to if all the bits and pieces added together make it better than a proc set? Who knows.

The normalized damage is nice in theory and it does seem like it will have moments of usefulness (and the increased weapon variety can't be understated) but I feel like the problem with it ends up being, it makes anyone who builds full tank slightly less tanky against you, but anyone who builds glassy or is poorly optimized becomes significantly more difficult to kill so it ends up being a set that actively nerfs you unless the ratio of tanks to non tanks in engagements that you're fighting heavily favors tanks.

It would be far more practical in my opinion if the set reduced damage by 25-30%, normalizing the damage to enemies in the medium armor range instead of putting every enemy just shy of capped heavy armor.

As it is now: it has a niche. In a group your allies will be popping the squishies, and you'll be the one focusing on those players that look like they're not taking much damage at all from other players.

A tankbuster set. (even though most players source tankyness from healing, shields, and blocking anyway)

That being said, 46% reduction might be too much lost damage.

Even then, tanky players that know what they are doing are only ever at like 36k resists or 27k post debuff or 41%mit. So you need a skill that gets you 5% damage done to be breaking even against a super niche enemy. This assumes you are doing the trade to Nirn Gsword 494wd which would make up for the 5 piece bonus of any other set you could slot.

robpr · January 13

So basically turns all your damage into oblivion damage (sort of). I guess it will find a niche in dot builds, as those will be mitigated only by protection, shields or outhealed, so slap a defile somewhere on scribing skill and it should work.

loosej · January 13

Are you doing the math correctly here?

If the enemy has 19k resist after debuffs, that's ~= 29% damage reduction.

So your damage attacks do 71% damage.

If you can increase that to 100%, you haven't gained 29%, you've gained (29 / 71) * 100 ~= 41%.

Or am I missing something?

Update: following that logic, you would break even against enemies with about 21k resist after debuffs (32% mitigation, or (32 / 68) * 100 ~= 47% damage gain.

MincMincMinc · January 13

robpr wrote: »

So basically turns all your damage into oblivion damage (sort of). I guess it will find a niche in dot builds, as those will be mitigated only by protection, shields or outhealed, so slap a defile somewhere on scribing skill and it should work.

No thats not at all how mit or damage calcs work.

Dots hit both resists and % mit sources everything other than oblivion damage does.

Pen lets you bypass enemy resists if they have them. Otherwise pen becomes useless if you have more than your enemy has armor.

MincMincMinc · January 13

loosej wrote: »

Are you doing the math correctly here?

If the enemy has 19k resist after debuffs, that's ~= 29% damage reduction.

So your damage attacks do 71% damage.

If you can increase that to 100%, you haven't gained 29%, you've gained (29 / 71) * 100 ~= 41%.

Or am I missing something?

you lose 46% damage. the 19k pen you gain is essentially worth 29% damage done. So in the end you are down the difference of 17%

What you just calculated was your efficiency % damage gain by hitting that 19k pen. Your % damage gain is not equivalent to a % damage done buff. What youd need is to slot an equivalent %damage done buff and then do another calc like you did to compare efficiency of what that % damage done you netted.

loosej · January 13

MincMincMinc wrote: »

loosej wrote: »

Are you doing the math correctly here?

If the enemy has 19k resist after debuffs, that's ~= 29% damage reduction.

So your damage attacks do 71% damage.

If you can increase that to 100%, you haven't gained 29%, you've gained (29 / 71) * 100 ~= 41%.

Or am I missing something?

you lose 46% damage. the 19k pen you gain is essentially worth 29% damage done. So in the end you are down the difference of 17%

What you just calculated was your efficiency % damage gain by hitting that 19k pen. Your % damage gain is not equivalent to a % damage done buff. What youd need is to slot an equivalent %damage done buff and then do another calc like you did to compare efficiency of what that % damage done you netted.

I see your point, you're right. If the 46% damage reduction uses 100% damage as a baseline, we need to compare the pen value to that same 100%.

MincMincMinc · January 13

My comparison of pen mit% to damage done is not completely accurate though because I believe they act multiplicativey and not additively. All of your % damage done sources will be additive, but then once the outgoing effective damage goes to the enemy, their resists(your pen) would be multiplied.

On uesp if I add 3276pen(4.96%) vs 5% damage done I do get a slight difference in effective power.

4.96% pen nets me an effective power of 9837
5% damage done nets me 9623 (2% less effective power)

Granted UESP is not always correct and has issues with certain buffs. This would mean that the supposed 17% gap is smaller slightly but if its 2% less of 17% that is still like 16.66% again this is assuming a tanky target, against average or squishy targets you need to make up another 4-6% damage done ontop of the 17%

loosej · January 13

I guess one way this set would make sense is by taking breach debuffs out of the equation. Opponents with about 30k (46%) or more resist aren't uncommon, and the extra barspace could be nice.

MincMincMinc · January 13

loosej wrote: »

I guess one way this set would make sense is by taking breach debuffs out of the equation. Opponents with about 30k (46%) or more resist aren't uncommon, and the extra barspace could be nice.

You can assume no major breach 5948(9%) when solo, sure so instead of 17% its 8% damage done needed by your skill slot. However if you play with a warden or in bgs you might aswell include it since 99% of people wont be running Lamp.

Pretty much any stam character applies minor breach through sunder.

Stx · January 13

This set is an interesting idea but clearly not a lot of thought went into the values of the 5 piece. There are no situations where you would need 100k pen, that’s silly. And a 46% damage reduction makes this set basically useless.

Change it to something like.. “Ignore your targets resistances, but reduce your damage by 35%”

I don’t know if even that would be good. The damage nerf might only need to be 20-25% to make it worth it.

YandereGirlfriend · January 13

Stx wrote: »

This set is an interesting idea but clearly not a lot of thought went into the values of the 5 piece. There are no situations where you would need 100k pen, that’s silly. And a 46% damage reduction makes this set basically useless.

Change it to something like.. “Ignore your targets resistances, but reduce your damage by 35%”

I don’t know if even that would be good. The damage nerf might only need to be 20-25% to make it worth it.

100k Pen is just the same value that they use for Corrosive to provide de facto "ignore Armor". So it's not a truly random value.

MincMincMinc · January 13

Stx wrote: »

This set is an interesting idea but clearly not a lot of thought went into the values of the 5 piece. There are no situations where you would need 100k pen, that’s silly. And a 46% damage reduction makes this set basically useless.

Change it to something like.. “Ignore your targets resistances, but reduce your damage by 35%”

I don’t know if even that would be good. The damage nerf might only need to be 20-25% to make it worth it.

Verbiage wise, yeah it should read as “Ignore your targets resistances, but reduce your damage done by XX%”

Percentage wise is up for debate. The 46% is way to harsh and makes this dead on arrival. By my calcs against a typical BIS setup with 28k resists defensive bar you end up needing to make up 17% damage done by dropping Ele sus for a skill. Which is a hard trade to find for a pvp setup. For more average pug who sits at 24k armor you need to make up 23% damage done on that skill choice...... So they probably need to drop the 46% down to be a 30% damage done loss.

Tommy_The_Gun · January 13

I think this set has potential to be actually broken & more OP than it seems to look. Why ? Cuz 5 Piece bonus looks more like something you would see in a mythic item, rather than a regular set. Just Compare it to Malacath's Band of Brutality:
(1 item) Increases your damage done by 16% but decreases your Critical Damage done by 50%.

Here you basically ignore armour, regardless of how much armour target has. It works on every type of DMG. You target simply does not have armour, as it is impossible to stack this much. So basically, all your DMG is kinda like Oblivion DMG. Let it sink for a while. Many Mythic items are weaker than this set. Take Gaze of Sithis for example. It pales in comparison. It is all about Opportunity Cost... and here it is just launching into space...

The drawback is that you are doing 46% less damage, but that penalty can be mitigated or heavily reduced by "pumping up" critical chance and critical damage done & / or using a lot of DOT abilities.

If you have high crit chance or for example you are ganking, chances are you will be able to kill 40+ Health tanks and almost one shot players with 30 - 35K health. All you need really is to line-up burst. Set like this may be kinda broken on a gank build (even ranged ones) and Sorcs with streak & shields could also be very strong with this set. DOT builds with high crit chance also will be able to put insane pressure even on a very tanky opponents.

I think that the only builds that may be least "susceptible" (but they would fee it) would be builds that focus on blocking and using DMG shields. As far as I am aware, penetration does not affects damage shields. You always do same dmg to shield (it is just a "fake" health bar). So you will basically hit for example Sorc with shield for 46% DMG less while not utilizing Pen.

If you think about it, this set alone kinda puts to shame every Oblivion damage set in the game.

Probably it is going to be nerfed, but only when new Dungeon DLC will obtainable with Crowns. At least this is my guess lol

So I guess... all of ESO+ users should enjoy it while it lasts

YandereGirlfriend · January 13

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I think this set has potential to be actually broken & more OP than it seems to look. Why ? Cuz 5 Piece bonus looks more like something you would see in a mythic item, rather than a regular set. Just Compare it to Malacath's Band of Brutality:
(1 item) Increases your damage done by 16% but decreases your Critical Damage done by 50%.

Here you basically ignore armour, regardless of how much armour target has. It works on every type of DMG. You target simply does not have armour, as it is impossible to stack this much. So basically, all your DMG is kinda like Oblivion DMG. Let it sink for a while. Many Mythic items are weaker than this set. Take Gaze of Sithis for example. It pales in comparison. It is all about Opportunity Cost... and here it is just launching into space...

The drawback is that you are doing 46% less damage, but that penalty can be mitigated or heavily reduced by "pumping up" critical chance and critical damage done & / or using a lot of DOT abilities.

If you have high crit chance or for example you are ganking, chances are you will be able to kill 40+ Health tanks and almost one shot players with 30 - 35K health. All you need really is to line-up burst. Set like this may be kinda broken on a gank build (even ranged ones) and Sorcs with streak & shields could also be very strong with this set. DOT builds with high crit chance also will be able to put insane pressure even on a very tanky opponents.

I think that the only builds that may be least "susceptible" (but they would fee it) would be builds that focus on blocking and using DMG shields. As far as I am aware, penetration does not affects damage shields. You always do same dmg to shield (it is just a "fake" health bar). So you will basically hit for example Sorc with shield for 46% DMG less while not utilizing Pen.

If you think about it, this set alone kinda puts to shame every Oblivion damage set in the game.

Probably it is going to be nerfed, but only when new Dungeon DLC will obtainable with Crowns. At least this is my guess lol

So I guess... all of ESO+ users should enjoy it while it lasts

Damage shields inherit all resistances of the person that it exists on.

Thumbless_Bot · January 13

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I think this set has potential to be actually broken & more OP than it seems to look. Why ? Cuz 5 Piece bonus looks more like something you would see in a mythic item, rather than a regular set. Just Compare it to Malacath's Band of Brutality:
(1 item) Increases your damage done by 16% but decreases your Critical Damage done by 50%.

Here you basically ignore armour, regardless of how much armour target has. It works on every type of DMG. You target simply does not have armour, as it is impossible to stack this much. So basically, all your DMG is kinda like Oblivion DMG. Let it sink for a while. Many Mythic items are weaker than this set. Take Gaze of Sithis for example. It pales in comparison. It is all about Opportunity Cost... and here it is just launching into space...

The drawback is that you are doing 46% less damage, but that penalty can be mitigated or heavily reduced by "pumping up" critical chance and critical damage done & / or using a lot of DOT abilities.

If you have high crit chance or for example you are ganking, chances are you will be able to kill 40+ Health tanks and almost one shot players with 30 - 35K health. All you need really is to line-up burst. Set like this may be kinda broken on a gank build (even ranged ones) and Sorcs with streak & shields could also be very strong with this set. DOT builds with high crit chance also will be able to put insane pressure even on a very tanky opponents.

I think that the only builds that may be least "susceptible" (but they would fee it) would be builds that focus on blocking and using DMG shields. As far as I am aware, penetration does not affects damage shields. You always do same dmg to shield (it is just a "fake" health bar). So you will basically hit for example Sorc with shield for 46% DMG less while not utilizing Pen.

If you think about it, this set alone kinda puts to shame every Oblivion damage set in the game.

Probably it is going to be nerfed, but only when new Dungeon DLC will obtainable with Crowns. At least this is my guess lol

So I guess... all of ESO+ users should enjoy it while it lasts

I am eager to see the test8ng on pts

MincMincMinc · January 14

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I think this set has potential to be actually broken & more OP than it seems to look. Why ? Cuz 5 Piece bonus looks more like something you would see in a mythic item, rather than a regular set. Just Compare it to Malacath's Band of Brutality:
(1 item) Increases your damage done by 16% but decreases your Critical Damage done by 50%.

Here you basically ignore armour, regardless of how much armour target has. It works on every type of DMG. You target simply does not have armour, as it is impossible to stack this much. So basically, all your DMG is kinda like Oblivion DMG. Let it sink for a while. Many Mythic items are weaker than this set. Take Gaze of Sithis for example. It pales in comparison. It is all about Opportunity Cost... and here it is just launching into space...

The drawback is that you are doing 46% less damage, but that penalty can be mitigated or heavily reduced by "pumping up" critical chance and critical damage done & / or using a lot of DOT abilities.

If you have high crit chance or for example you are ganking, chances are you will be able to kill 40+ Health tanks and almost one shot players with 30 - 35K health. All you need really is to line-up burst. Set like this may be kinda broken on a gank build (even ranged ones) and Sorcs with streak & shields could also be very strong with this set. DOT builds with high crit chance also will be able to put insane pressure even on a very tanky opponents.

I think that the only builds that may be least "susceptible" (but they would fee it) would be builds that focus on blocking and using DMG shields. As far as I am aware, penetration does not affects damage shields. You always do same dmg to shield (it is just a "fake" health bar). So you will basically hit for example Sorc with shield for 46% DMG less while not utilizing Pen.

If you think about it, this set alone kinda puts to shame every Oblivion damage set in the game.

Probably it is going to be nerfed, but only when new Dungeon DLC will obtainable with Crowns. At least this is my guess lol

So I guess... all of ESO+ users should enjoy it while it lasts

Like yandere pointed out shields act like normal health in terms of mitigation and penetration.

In no way does the crit affect this set or become more valuable than running a pen build with the same crit bonuses.

Really it is you gain pen equal to the enemy's resists which equates to roughly 29%-23% damage done based on average pvp builds. You lose 46% damage done. The extra benefit is from running nirn Gsword instead of sharp maul, so you gain 494wd which basically equates to a 5 piece bonus that you could have slotted without running this set from the start. Then it boils down to dropping major breach skills to make up for the 17%-23% damage done loss.

As it stands I cannot think of a single skill that can make up for 17%-23% damage done. Maybe banner with 6% damage done+cavalier+courage..... but even then that has its own -33% flat regen cut.

Zos would have to change the set to be a 30% damage cut to make the set worth a 300-500wd set basically. 25% would make more sense in terms of how it limits the rest of your build to certain choices. Also the max stam 2 and 3 piece bonuses are the worst possible stat line in todays meta. Crit, wd, or crit resist would be nice to see on more sets considering this is a pvp specific set.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · January 14

As powerful as it looks, 100k penetration is not as strong as one might think, the damage loss does not look like it would make up for whatever damage you gained by ignoring the opponent's armor.

Freelancer_ESO · January 14

PvP damage builds aren't my thing but, would it be viable when working with a group and using it on just one bar?

Have Bar A for killing people that don't have any armor and Have Bar B for killing people running tons of armor.

You'd be bad against people with less extreme amounts but, if you are in a group that might not be a big issue?