More sources of Major Brittle please.

Sallymen

As is stands, Nunatek is the only set in the game that provides Major Brittle, with no class ability, passive or trial set being able to substitute or be an alternative to the PvP monster set. However there is a new set coming out on the PTS from one of the new dungeons that does the following:

Heavy
Lucilla's Windshield
5) Blocking 3 attacks within 10 seconds creates an 8 meter Windshield at your feet for 10 seconds. Enemies within the area gain Minor Btittle, increasing their Critical Damage taken by 10%. While you are within the area, you gain major protection, reducing dmg taken by 10%. 7s CD, only 1 active at a time.

There are already many ways to proc minor brittle which include:
Elemental Sustability (Weapon Ability)
Rune of Colorless Pool (Class Ability)
Frostbite (overland set)
Elemental Explosion (scribing)
Mender's Bond (scribing)
Frost Damage from skills, sets, or enchants that can cause chilled status effect

There are too many ways to give minor brittle and only one source of major brittle. I know we haven't even touched the PTS yet for U45 but I want to suggest tweaking Lucilla's Windcaller to provide major brittle to go alongside its Major Protection buff to make it compete with other tanking sets.

MincMincMinc

Sure do that so I can slot it on my acuity warden. Sure could use a source of major brittle in a perfect aoe the size of my northern that is undodgeable, unblockable, and unpurgeable.

I can't possibly think of a reason to not give me the strongest damage buff in the game and the strongest mit buff in the game in a simple set with no cooldown?

ESO_Nightingale

Sallymen wrote: »

As is stands, Nunatek is the only set in the game that provides Major Brittle, with no class ability, passive or trial set being able to substitute or be an alternative to the PvP monster set. However there is a new set coming out on the PTS from one of the new dungeons that does the following:

Heavy
Lucilla's Windshield
5) Blocking 3 attacks within 10 seconds creates an 8 meter Windshield at your feet for 10 seconds. Enemies within the area gain Minor Btittle, increasing their Critical Damage taken by 10%. While you are within the area, you gain major protection, reducing dmg taken by 10%. 7s CD, only 1 active at a time.

There are already many ways to proc minor brittle which include:
Elemental Sustability (Weapon Ability)
Rune of Colorless Pool (Class Ability)
Frostbite (overland set)
Elemental Explosion (scribing)
Mender's Bond (scribing)
Frost Damage from skills, sets, or enchants that can cause chilled status effect

There are too many ways to give minor brittle and only one source of major brittle. I know we haven't even touched the PTS yet for U45 but I want to suggest tweaking Lucilla's Windcaller to provide major brittle to go alongside its Major Protection buff to make it compete with other tanking sets.

Frostbite does not proc minor brittle. It gives damage bonuses against enemies inflicted with it.

Soarora

I feel like major brittle should really be worked into a warden buff thats complicated to apply (like a high cost ult or a chance on a spammable or something). It’d be difficult to make it a DPS-only thing to bring warden DPS back into relevancy but at least it could make warden healer more fun.

BasP

Soarora wrote: »

I feel like major brittle should really be worked into a warden buff thats complicated to apply (like a high cost ult or a chance on a spammable or something). It’d be difficult to make it a DPS-only thing to bring warden DPS back into relevancy but at least it could make warden healer more fun.

When it comes to giving Warden DPS the ability to apply the debuff: Perhaps the Eternal Guardian could be turned into a Polar Bear that dealt Frost Damage, and activating its Ultimate ability would apply Major Brittle in a certain radius?

ESO_Nightingale

Soarora wrote: »

I feel like major brittle should really be worked into a warden buff thats complicated to apply (like a high cost ult or a chance on a spammable or something). It’d be difficult to make it a DPS-only thing to bring warden DPS back into relevancy but at least it could make warden healer more fun.

The issue is healers and tanks are fundamentally designed (by the players) to incorporate every kind of buff so that dps dont have to make any sacrifices. The class buffs Minor Toughness(in aoe) and aoe Major Resolve are incredibly unintuitive to access as a dps, that outside of you being good at the class by dealing good damage, there's no reason to bring a dps warden.
I don't think major brittle as a warden buff would end up being as impactful as you think it would especially since it likely wouldn't have 100% uptime and therefore would be very difficult to plan around with the crit cap existing, or would just lead to more class stacking. being able to access aoe minor toughness and major resolve without having to sacrifice dps would arguably be the most impactful thing to happen.

Soarora

BasP wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I feel like major brittle should really be worked into a warden buff thats complicated to apply (like a high cost ult or a chance on a spammable or something). It’d be difficult to make it a DPS-only thing to bring warden DPS back into relevancy but at least it could make warden healer more fun.

When it comes to giving Warden DPS the ability to apply the debuff: Perhaps the Eternal Guardian could be turned into a Polar Bear that dealt Frost Damage, and activating its Ultimate ability would apply Major Brittle in a certain radius?

Hmm maybe. That way healers would have to choose between bear and warhorn and barrier. And if a healer did run bear then it’d add some spice to the rotation.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I feel like major brittle should really be worked into a warden buff thats complicated to apply (like a high cost ult or a chance on a spammable or something). It’d be difficult to make it a DPS-only thing to bring warden DPS back into relevancy but at least it could make warden healer more fun.

The issue is healers and tanks are fundamentally designed (by the players) to incorporate every kind of buff so that dps dont have to make any sacrifices. The class buffs Minor Toughness(in aoe) and aoe Major Resolve are incredibly unintuitive to access as a dps, that outside of you being good at the class by dealing good damage, there's no reason to bring a dps warden.
I don't think major brittle as a warden buff would end up being as impactful as you think it would especially since it likely wouldn't have 100% uptime and therefore would be very difficult to plan around with the crit cap existing, or would just lead to more class stacking. being able to access aoe minor toughness and major resolve without having to sacrifice dps would arguably be the most impactful thing to happen.

The number of support DPS is increasing. We replaced EC cro with WM cro. MK sorc/arc. Zenas (and sometimes colorless pool and sometimes WM) arc. Z’ens/alkosh DK. Having a warden DPS as a support DPS is not horribly unlikely, but I do think that blue lotus needs changed to be low healing but hit everyone so that DPS can give everyone minor toughness. Even then, I warden healed for multiple years and it’s just such a boring class to heal on.

Deimus

Give it to Necromancer. The Last Gasp passive desperately needs a rework so change it to give a Major Brittle once certain conditions are met. It is the debuff class according to devs, they've been adding and changing more of its damage to frost, and it would work well with the Death Knell passive to actually create the feeling of a passive execute.

Could be changed from Last Gasp to:
Chill to the Bone: When you create or consume a corpse afflict enemies within 6m of the corpse with Major Brittle for 6 seconds with a 8 second cooldown.

ESO_Nightingale

Soarora wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I feel like major brittle should really be worked into a warden buff thats complicated to apply (like a high cost ult or a chance on a spammable or something). It’d be difficult to make it a DPS-only thing to bring warden DPS back into relevancy but at least it could make warden healer more fun.

When it comes to giving Warden DPS the ability to apply the debuff: Perhaps the Eternal Guardian could be turned into a Polar Bear that dealt Frost Damage, and activating its Ultimate ability would apply Major Brittle in a certain radius?

Hmm maybe. That way healers would have to choose between bear and warhorn and barrier. And if a healer did run bear then it’d add some spice to the rotation.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I feel like major brittle should really be worked into a warden buff thats complicated to apply (like a high cost ult or a chance on a spammable or something). It’d be difficult to make it a DPS-only thing to bring warden DPS back into relevancy but at least it could make warden healer more fun.

The issue is healers and tanks are fundamentally designed (by the players) to incorporate every kind of buff so that dps dont have to make any sacrifices. The class buffs Minor Toughness(in aoe) and aoe Major Resolve are incredibly unintuitive to access as a dps, that outside of you being good at the class by dealing good damage, there's no reason to bring a dps warden.
I don't think major brittle as a warden buff would end up being as impactful as you think it would especially since it likely wouldn't have 100% uptime and therefore would be very difficult to plan around with the crit cap existing, or would just lead to more class stacking. being able to access aoe minor toughness and major resolve without having to sacrifice dps would arguably be the most impactful thing to happen.

The number of support DPS is increasing. We replaced EC cro with WM cro. MK sorc/arc. Zenas (and sometimes colorless pool and sometimes WM) arc. Z’ens/alkosh DK. Having a warden DPS as a support DPS is not horribly unlikely, but I do think that blue lotus needs changed to be low healing but hit everyone so that DPS can give everyone minor toughness. Even then, I warden healed for multiple years and it’s just such a boring class to heal on.

Dps will not take blue lotus even if it did do that. The reason being is that the skill does not offer any dps benefit that you can't already get via other sources. I thought we would use green lotus or lotus blossom when they buffed those morphs a few patches ago. We don't outside of solo content because they do not offer any direct dps benefit.

The issue is less with lotus blossom and more with the fact that maturation ONLY applies to the ally you heal with it. Other classes give the benefit to Everyone around them when the condition is fulfilled. If healing yourself granted everyone around you the buff, that would entirely fix that issue.

Major Resolve from frost cloak is an issue for a similar reason. Healers and tanks don't care about dps but dps do. Expansive frost cloak and ice fortress offer nothing to a damage dealer which further exasterbates the problem that the group utility of the class is locked behind conditions that dps have to actively go out of their way to achieve.

Soarora

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I feel like major brittle should really be worked into a warden buff thats complicated to apply (like a high cost ult or a chance on a spammable or something). It’d be difficult to make it a DPS-only thing to bring warden DPS back into relevancy but at least it could make warden healer more fun.

When it comes to giving Warden DPS the ability to apply the debuff: Perhaps the Eternal Guardian could be turned into a Polar Bear that dealt Frost Damage, and activating its Ultimate ability would apply Major Brittle in a certain radius?

Hmm maybe. That way healers would have to choose between bear and warhorn and barrier. And if a healer did run bear then it’d add some spice to the rotation.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I feel like major brittle should really be worked into a warden buff thats complicated to apply (like a high cost ult or a chance on a spammable or something). It’d be difficult to make it a DPS-only thing to bring warden DPS back into relevancy but at least it could make warden healer more fun.

The issue is healers and tanks are fundamentally designed (by the players) to incorporate every kind of buff so that dps dont have to make any sacrifices. The class buffs Minor Toughness(in aoe) and aoe Major Resolve are incredibly unintuitive to access as a dps, that outside of you being good at the class by dealing good damage, there's no reason to bring a dps warden.
I don't think major brittle as a warden buff would end up being as impactful as you think it would especially since it likely wouldn't have 100% uptime and therefore would be very difficult to plan around with the crit cap existing, or would just lead to more class stacking. being able to access aoe minor toughness and major resolve without having to sacrifice dps would arguably be the most impactful thing to happen.

The number of support DPS is increasing. We replaced EC cro with WM cro. MK sorc/arc. Zenas (and sometimes colorless pool and sometimes WM) arc. Z’ens/alkosh DK. Having a warden DPS as a support DPS is not horribly unlikely, but I do think that blue lotus needs changed to be low healing but hit everyone so that DPS can give everyone minor toughness. Even then, I warden healed for multiple years and it’s just such a boring class to heal on.

Dps will not take blue lotus even if it did do that. The reason being is that the skill does not offer any dps benefit that you can't already get via other sources. I thought we would use green lotus or lotus blossom when they buffed those morphs a few patches ago. We don't outside of solo content because they do not offer any direct dps benefit.

The issue is less with lotus blossom and more with the fact that maturation ONLY applies to the ally you heal with it. Other classes give the benefit to Everyone around them when the condition is fulfilled. If healing yourself granted everyone around you the buff, that would entirely fix that issue.

Major Resolve from frost cloak is an issue for a similar reason. Healers and tanks don't care about dps but dps do. Expansive frost cloak and ice fortress offer nothing to a damage dealer which further exasterbates the problem that the group utility of the class is locked behind conditions that dps have to actively go out of their way to achieve.

I use blue lotus because I only potion spam in parses so I don’t know why you’re talking like every DPS warden doesn’t use it. But that is my point, the skill needs buffed and part of that buff should be that it does low healing to all group members so a DPS can keep up minor toughness.
I don’t think major resolve being a support skill is too much of a problem at this time because you do not always need major resolve, there are times where most DPS bring their own major resolve, and times when you do actually need group-wide major resolve is going to have a warden healer anyways.
Regardless, again, even if a major brittle ended up being a healer responsibility, it’d at least have the potential of making warden healer more fun where it is currently lacking in the fun department.

ESO_Nightingale

Soarora wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I feel like major brittle should really be worked into a warden buff thats complicated to apply (like a high cost ult or a chance on a spammable or something). It’d be difficult to make it a DPS-only thing to bring warden DPS back into relevancy but at least it could make warden healer more fun.

When it comes to giving Warden DPS the ability to apply the debuff: Perhaps the Eternal Guardian could be turned into a Polar Bear that dealt Frost Damage, and activating its Ultimate ability would apply Major Brittle in a certain radius?

Hmm maybe. That way healers would have to choose between bear and warhorn and barrier. And if a healer did run bear then it’d add some spice to the rotation.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I feel like major brittle should really be worked into a warden buff thats complicated to apply (like a high cost ult or a chance on a spammable or something). It’d be difficult to make it a DPS-only thing to bring warden DPS back into relevancy but at least it could make warden healer more fun.

The issue is healers and tanks are fundamentally designed (by the players) to incorporate every kind of buff so that dps dont have to make any sacrifices. The class buffs Minor Toughness(in aoe) and aoe Major Resolve are incredibly unintuitive to access as a dps, that outside of you being good at the class by dealing good damage, there's no reason to bring a dps warden.
I don't think major brittle as a warden buff would end up being as impactful as you think it would especially since it likely wouldn't have 100% uptime and therefore would be very difficult to plan around with the crit cap existing, or would just lead to more class stacking. being able to access aoe minor toughness and major resolve without having to sacrifice dps would arguably be the most impactful thing to happen.

The number of support DPS is increasing. We replaced EC cro with WM cro. MK sorc/arc. Zenas (and sometimes colorless pool and sometimes WM) arc. Z’ens/alkosh DK. Having a warden DPS as a support DPS is not horribly unlikely, but I do think that blue lotus needs changed to be low healing but hit everyone so that DPS can give everyone minor toughness. Even then, I warden healed for multiple years and it’s just such a boring class to heal on.

Dps will not take blue lotus even if it did do that. The reason being is that the skill does not offer any dps benefit that you can't already get via other sources. I thought we would use green lotus or lotus blossom when they buffed those morphs a few patches ago. We don't outside of solo content because they do not offer any direct dps benefit.

The issue is less with lotus blossom and more with the fact that maturation ONLY applies to the ally you heal with it. Other classes give the benefit to Everyone around them when the condition is fulfilled. If healing yourself granted everyone around you the buff, that would entirely fix that issue.

Major Resolve from frost cloak is an issue for a similar reason. Healers and tanks don't care about dps but dps do. Expansive frost cloak and ice fortress offer nothing to a damage dealer which further exasterbates the problem that the group utility of the class is locked behind conditions that dps have to actively go out of their way to achieve.

I use blue lotus because I only potion spam in parses so I don’t know why you’re talking like every DPS warden doesn’t use it. But that is my point, the skill needs buffed and part of that buff should be that it does low healing to all group members so a DPS can keep up minor toughness.
I don’t think major resolve being a support skill is too much of a problem at this time because you do not always need major resolve, there are times where most DPS bring their own major resolve, and times when you do actually need group-wide major resolve is going to have a warden healer anyways.
Regardless, again, even if a major brittle ended up being a healer responsibility, it’d at least have the potential of making warden healer more fun where it is currently lacking in the fun department.

i dont use it because the skill does not do anything for me to warrent using it, in trial environments, i can't imagine other warden dps that are trying to optimise, are taking it either. not everyone in the group may need major resolve, but having the certainty of it being there would mean a lot especially for some builds that don't have access to it outside of warden's group skill.

i honestly don't see why they can't make maturation just apply to everyone when you fulfil the condition of healing.

MATH_COW

I did a post a little while ago about brittle and in a short explaination I think Permafrost (as the mega ice storm morph) should apply major brittle instead of minor and wardens should be able to apply minor brittle anytime they do frost damage (not proccing chilled statut but applying only the minor brittle debuff) and without the need of a frost staff in the hand as they are supposed to be the ice mastering class

ESO_Nightingale

MATH_COW wrote: »

I did a post a little while ago about brittle and in a short explaination I think Permafrost (as the mega ice storm morph) should apply major brittle instead of minor and wardens should be able to apply minor brittle anytime they do frost damage (not proccing chilled statut but applying only the minor brittle debuff) and without the need of a frost staff in the hand as they are supposed to be the ice mastering class

i do think they should update permafrost and northern storm but not with major brittle as i think its massively overrated and if it was in the game on northern storm, that would likely lead to either class stacking (though probably with supports and tanks instead of dps) which is already a massive issue on arcanist, or the debuff being ignored outside of clearing trash as crit caps are usually built around and having a MASSIVE increase to crit damage but only some of the time makes it a strange situation unless it was planned around with nazaray. In that situation with Nazaray, you'd just need a tank or support to run it because the ultimate is so weak compared to bear on DPS(and you can't slot anything else when using bear), that you'd likely never even run it on one anyway.

So, instead, I'd personally do something like this:


Northern Storm has always struggled to compete with bear. so using this logic, it would gain a significant damage increase and uptime which would support the weapon and spell damage buff, and also the dumb weapon/spell damage stacking change would be reverted back because it was fine before. northern storm would need to do a lot to compete with bear and even with this change, while i think it would be significantly better as its just more damage per cast, it would probably still be a few thousand dps behind bear, since bear has its massive light attack/heavy attack/claw ultimate attack AND bleed proc chance to compete with.

if i was to buff it even further, i would probably give it some unique effect like "frost damage over time spells deal 25% more damage" or something like "While Northern Storm is active, your Frost Damage Over Time effects no longer lose duration."


This change would remove the guarenteed chilled and duration increase at expense of lower damage thing, and just make it the straight pvp morph for both damage and aoe major protection. cutting the duration back makes the window of major protection less active and therefore less oppressive.