Options Discussion: How to fix spawn camping in BGs

TumlinTheJolly

As title says, when BGs get horribly 1-sided, nobody on the other team wants to jump down from spawn. How do we fix this?

I would suggest adding a powerful temporary buff that players receive just after jumping down from their spawn. Perhaps they deal 200% damage and take 50% damage for 10 seconds or so. It would have to be a strong enough buff that team getting farmed could jump down and wipe the other team, if they were spawn camping. The buff would have to be received after jumping down, rather than while on the spawn platform, as we wouldn't want to incentivize sniping from the platform.

Thoughts? What other options could address this issue?

Kyip

Don't pair pre-made teams against pickup teams.

TumlinTheJolly

Note: 10 seconds might be too long. Maybe 5 seconds. A speedy bomber could possibly cross a lot of the map in 10 seconds.

manukartofanu

Haha, I would totally play BG with a buff like that. Not sure it would solve the problem, but it would definitely add some fun.

SnakeDodger

Experienced both sides of this, and i have to say, it's sad on both. There was one time where some guy on my team said 'let's let them down'. I got sad reading that.

Was this always an issue? I've only started playing this game recently, and i'm not really into pvp but i have experienced the problem. On the time that it was my team doing the beating, playing as a melee only felt so weird, i couldn't do anything for extended periods of time, anything other than watch the sorcs lighting staff each other.

To the post, what would be the downsides of a barrier at spawn where no projectiles could pass? An one sided barrier covering spawn and some of the ground below it, where only the people from that point could pass-through, and could not go back in after passing. People who want to stay in camp would stay (To change equipment or something). People would be able to jump down and not be insta-killed, and people would not be able to hide behind the barrier to avoid damage. That's one solution i can think of, but i feel like when a bg is super one sided, ganking the other team becomes inevitable and it's always going to be a hard situation to get out of, the way other games avoid that is by making both spawns really far apart, but eso's bg maps are too small for that.

Avran_Sylt

Teleporters that link to different sides of the map.

karthrag_inak

Go. Back. To. Three. Team

Warhawke_80

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

As title says, when BGs get horribly 1-sided, nobody on the other team wants to jump down from spawn. How do we fix this?

Make Cyrodil one big PVE area?

/ducks

Decimus

In 4v4?

Simple:

1. Reduce the amount of deaths to one (and then spectate).
2. Increase the amount of rounds to 8.
3. Shuffle teams between each round.

This results in an experience where people don't lose hope of having fun in the lobby, as there's no more team imbalance to worry about and the "unfun" part is limited to just a couple of deaths rather than two rounds of jumping down 3 times with zero chance of winning.

No more toxicity either; people sitting in base afk wasting everyones' time or telling team mates to just "give up and surrender" while they're working hard to win the match.

In 8v8 unfair matchmaking is much less of an issue, but still exists. Deathmatch is actually the worst offender here: I believe Capture the Relic, Chaosball and flag modes disencourage camping opponent base.

There's a couple of solutions to this:

1. Same as in 4v4; instead of one round of who reaches 32 kills, you could have two rounds of 16 kills instead with teams shuffled inbetween. The bad experience stems from spending time to queue to an activity only to find out it's super one-sided... with multiple rounds and team shuffling inbetween atleast half the match can be salvaged if this is the case.
2. Catch up mechanics - this is another potential solution to bad matchmaking... why not have sigils spawn in the base of the team that is trailing by X points? I think 200 points could be a good starting point.

These are not some weird undoable ideas, Solo Shuffle has been very popular in WoW arenas for a while and many, many games do matches in form of multiple rounds (with or without shuffle inbetween) - Marvel Rivals being just the latest good example.


As a sidenote, it would also benefit the experience if spawn point was a bit further from where you jump down. First of all this prevents being hit in the spawn (happens very easily in multiple maps, but especially in the one with the bridge in the middle) and secondly this would improve objective modes by having a bit more of a run back to relic/flags, rewarding kills more.

Thumbless_Bot

Decimus wrote: »

In 4v4?

Simple:

1. Reduce the amount of deaths to one (and then spectate).
2. Increase the amount of rounds to 8.
3. Shuffle teams between each round.

This results in an experience where people don't lose hope of having fun in the lobby, as there's no more team imbalance to worry about and the "unfun" part is limited to just a couple of deaths rather than two rounds of jumping down 3 times with zero chance of winning.

No more toxicity either; people sitting in base afk wasting everyones' time or telling team mates to just "give up and surrender" while they're working hard to win the match.

In 8v8 unfair matchmaking is much less of an issue, but still exists. Deathmatch is actually the worst offender here: I believe Capture the Relic, Chaosball and flag modes disencourage camping opponent base.

There's a couple of solutions to this:

1. Same as in 4v4; instead of one round of who reaches 32 kills, you could have two rounds of 16 kills instead with teams shuffled inbetween. The bad experience stems from spending time to queue to an activity only to find out it's super one-sided... with multiple rounds and team shuffling inbetween atleast half the match can be salvaged if this is the case.
2. Catch up mechanics - this is another potential solution to bad matchmaking... why not have sigils spawn in the base of the team that is trailing by X points? I think 200 points could be a good starting point.

These are not some weird undoable ideas, Solo Shuffle has been very popular in WoW arenas for a while and many, many games do matches in form of multiple rounds (with or without shuffle inbetween) - Marvel Rivals being just the latest good example.

We are solving for a problem zos created by introducing this terrible two team format. No one ever said, What do we do about spawn camping with three teams. Maybe a few people, but we're there countless forum posts about it? I've said it here before. Chasing bad code with bad code is not a good idea. Right the ship, revert to three teams. Them improve. Everything short of that is a screen door on a submarine because you're out of water.

Decimus

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

In 4v4?

Simple:

1. Reduce the amount of deaths to one (and then spectate).
2. Increase the amount of rounds to 8.
3. Shuffle teams between each round.

This results in an experience where people don't lose hope of having fun in the lobby, as there's no more team imbalance to worry about and the "unfun" part is limited to just a couple of deaths rather than two rounds of jumping down 3 times with zero chance of winning.

No more toxicity either; people sitting in base afk wasting everyones' time or telling team mates to just "give up and surrender" while they're working hard to win the match.

In 8v8 unfair matchmaking is much less of an issue, but still exists. Deathmatch is actually the worst offender here: I believe Capture the Relic, Chaosball and flag modes disencourage camping opponent base.

There's a couple of solutions to this:

1. Same as in 4v4; instead of one round of who reaches 32 kills, you could have two rounds of 16 kills instead with teams shuffled inbetween. The bad experience stems from spending time to queue to an activity only to find out it's super one-sided... with multiple rounds and team shuffling inbetween atleast half the match can be salvaged if this is the case.
2. Catch up mechanics - this is another potential solution to bad matchmaking... why not have sigils spawn in the base of the team that is trailing by X points? I think 200 points could be a good starting point.

These are not some weird undoable ideas, Solo Shuffle has been very popular in WoW arenas for a while and many, many games do matches in form of multiple rounds (with or without shuffle inbetween) - Marvel Rivals being just the latest good example.

We are s9lving for a problem zos created by introducing this terrible two team format. No one ever said. What do we do about spawn camping with three teams. I've said it here before. Chasing bad code with bad code is not a good idea. Right the ship, revert to three teams. Them improve. Everything short of that is a screen door on a submarine.

If it's "bad code", then why does pretty much every competitive PvP game out there utilize team vs team format? And if you think battlegrounds in ESO were some stellar example of superior PvP format, then why were there only like 20 players queueing for the 3-way battlegrounds while we get multiple lobbies for the 2-way format with different players throughout the day?


If you enjoy the 3-way format, you still have Cyrodiil for that. Plenty of empty flags to run to and capture, plenty of people to third party while they fight another faction... still offers everything the 3-way BGs did.

Thumbless_Bot

Decimus wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

In 4v4?

Simple:

1. Reduce the amount of deaths to one (and then spectate).
2. Increase the amount of rounds to 8.
3. Shuffle teams between each round.

This results in an experience where people don't lose hope of having fun in the lobby, as there's no more team imbalance to worry about and the "unfun" part is limited to just a couple of deaths rather than two rounds of jumping down 3 times with zero chance of winning.

No more toxicity either; people sitting in base afk wasting everyones' time or telling team mates to just "give up and surrender" while they're working hard to win the match.

In 8v8 unfair matchmaking is much less of an issue, but still exists. Deathmatch is actually the worst offender here: I believe Capture the Relic, Chaosball and flag modes disencourage camping opponent base.

There's a couple of solutions to this:

1. Same as in 4v4; instead of one round of who reaches 32 kills, you could have two rounds of 16 kills instead with teams shuffled inbetween. The bad experience stems from spending time to queue to an activity only to find out it's super one-sided... with multiple rounds and team shuffling inbetween atleast half the match can be salvaged if this is the case.
2. Catch up mechanics - this is another potential solution to bad matchmaking... why not have sigils spawn in the base of the team that is trailing by X points? I think 200 points could be a good starting point.

These are not some weird undoable ideas, Solo Shuffle has been very popular in WoW arenas for a while and many, many games do matches in form of multiple rounds (with or without shuffle inbetween) - Marvel Rivals being just the latest good example.

We are s9lving for a problem zos created by introducing this terrible two team format. No one ever said. What do we do about spawn camping with three teams. I've said it here before. Chasing bad code with bad code is not a good idea. Right the ship, revert to three teams. Them improve. Everything short of that is a screen door on a submarine.

If it's "bad code", then why does pretty much every competitive PvP game out there utilize team vs team format? And if you think battlegrounds in ESO were some stellar example of superior PvP format, then why were there only like 20 players queueing for the 3-way battlegrounds while we get multiple lobbies for the 2-way format with different players throughout the day?


If you enjoy the 3-way format, you still have Cyrodiil for that. Plenty of empty flags to run to and capture, plenty of people to third party while they fight another faction... still offers everything the 3-way BGs did.

Because those games are those games and this is eso. This game was built and balanced on three team pvp. That's why I play this game and not those games.

I am in two bg guilds that are always completely full. One on ps5 and one on pcna. This statement about 20 people is just false. It's just absolutely false.

The increased participation, as I've stated before, is a mirage, or self fulfilling prophecy. Because people want the swag. Once that's gone/had. We will really see what these new bgs have in terms of participation.

I did cyro for years and moved to bgs because of lag, Dark Convergence and ROA.

Decimus

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

In 4v4?

Simple:

1. Reduce the amount of deaths to one (and then spectate).
2. Increase the amount of rounds to 8.
3. Shuffle teams between each round.

This results in an experience where people don't lose hope of having fun in the lobby, as there's no more team imbalance to worry about and the "unfun" part is limited to just a couple of deaths rather than two rounds of jumping down 3 times with zero chance of winning.

No more toxicity either; people sitting in base afk wasting everyones' time or telling team mates to just "give up and surrender" while they're working hard to win the match.

In 8v8 unfair matchmaking is much less of an issue, but still exists. Deathmatch is actually the worst offender here: I believe Capture the Relic, Chaosball and flag modes disencourage camping opponent base.

There's a couple of solutions to this:

1. Same as in 4v4; instead of one round of who reaches 32 kills, you could have two rounds of 16 kills instead with teams shuffled inbetween. The bad experience stems from spending time to queue to an activity only to find out it's super one-sided... with multiple rounds and team shuffling inbetween atleast half the match can be salvaged if this is the case.
2. Catch up mechanics - this is another potential solution to bad matchmaking... why not have sigils spawn in the base of the team that is trailing by X points? I think 200 points could be a good starting point.

These are not some weird undoable ideas, Solo Shuffle has been very popular in WoW arenas for a while and many, many games do matches in form of multiple rounds (with or without shuffle inbetween) - Marvel Rivals being just the latest good example.

We are s9lving for a problem zos created by introducing this terrible two team format. No one ever said. What do we do about spawn camping with three teams. I've said it here before. Chasing bad code with bad code is not a good idea. Right the ship, revert to three teams. Them improve. Everything short of that is a screen door on a submarine.

If it's "bad code", then why does pretty much every competitive PvP game out there utilize team vs team format? And if you think battlegrounds in ESO were some stellar example of superior PvP format, then why were there only like 20 players queueing for the 3-way battlegrounds while we get multiple lobbies for the 2-way format with different players throughout the day?


If you enjoy the 3-way format, you still have Cyrodiil for that. Plenty of empty flags to run to and capture, plenty of people to third party while they fight another faction... still offers everything the 3-way BGs did.

Because those games are those games and this is eso. This game was built and balanced on three team pvp. That's why I play this game and not those games.

I am in two bg guilds that are always completely full. One on ps5 and one on pcna. This statement about 20 people is just false. It's just absolutely false.

The increased participation, as I've stated before, is a mirage, or self fulfilling prophecy. Because people want the swag. Once that's gone/had. We will really see what these new bgs have in terms of participation.

I did cyro for years and moved to bgs because of lag, Dark Convergence and ROA.

Actually ESO was built without battlegrounds at all, the only thing there at the beginning was Cyrodiil - even dueling (1v1 btw, not 1v1v1) was added later. The reason 3-way battlegrounds format never took off is because it simply doesn't work and doesn't appeal to a different audience than the Cyrodiil enjoyers.

You are speaking about your own personal preferences here as part of a very, very, very small amount of players who still kept playing and enjoyed the 3-way battlegrounds.

I am also in a BG guild... pretty much the only one that was even remotely active on PC EU - and out of the 500 or so people in that guild, there would be anywhere between zero and 2-3 in a battleground when logging in. Full guild doesn't mean anything since you can't enforce player behaviour - being in a big PvE raiding guild doesn't mean you're going to see most people in Trials 24/7.

There is nothing false about my statement of 20~ active BG players that you'd see in battlegrounds on PC EU (the most populated megaserver) over the last year or two of 3-way BGs, there's literally hundreds of Twitch VODs to prove that.


Also I wonder how long this "oh it's still new and there's rewards" line is going to go on for... if anything I'm still coming across new names queueing into BGs, despite them being out for literally months now - you can buy every new set item for 1-2k gold and style pages take maybe 10-20 BGs to grind. That, and by your logic everyone would be playing 4v4s (not 8v8) since that's the only way to get Galeskirmish Gladiator pages. Sorry, things just don't add up here and I think you might be on some copium.

My recommendation? Take a step back, enjoy Cyrodiil or ask for fixes to it (dcon & ROA are super easy to just play around btw) - what is best for the game is having multiple different formats of PvP that as wide variety of players as possible can enjoy. This game is not "my game" or "your game", it's everyone's.

JinKC98

- 3 to 5 seconds of Invincibility (gold health bar like Guards) upon jumping down.

- No attacks can be made while inside Camp and no attacks can pass through into the Camp.

- Force teleport every player down 10 seconds after respawning.

Just my two cents.

SaffronCitrusflower

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

As title says, when BGs get horribly 1-sided, nobody on the other team wants to jump down from spawn. How do we fix this?

Make Cyrodil one big PVE area?

/ducks

Or better yet make all zones PvP zones so people will learn to play the premier feature in ESO.

Thumbless_Bot

Decimus wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

In 4v4?

Simple:

1. Reduce the amount of deaths to one (and then spectate).
2. Increase the amount of rounds to 8.
3. Shuffle teams between each round.

This results in an experience where people don't lose hope of having fun in the lobby, as there's no more team imbalance to worry about and the "unfun" part is limited to just a couple of deaths rather than two rounds of jumping down 3 times with zero chance of winning.

No more toxicity either; people sitting in base afk wasting everyones' time or telling team mates to just "give up and surrender" while they're working hard to win the match.

In 8v8 unfair matchmaking is much less of an issue, but still exists. Deathmatch is actually the worst offender here: I believe Capture the Relic, Chaosball and flag modes disencourage camping opponent base.

There's a couple of solutions to this:

1. Same as in 4v4; instead of one round of who reaches 32 kills, you could have two rounds of 16 kills instead with teams shuffled inbetween. The bad experience stems from spending time to queue to an activity only to find out it's super one-sided... with multiple rounds and team shuffling inbetween atleast half the match can be salvaged if this is the case.
2. Catch up mechanics - this is another potential solution to bad matchmaking... why not have sigils spawn in the base of the team that is trailing by X points? I think 200 points could be a good starting point.

These are not some weird undoable ideas, Solo Shuffle has been very popular in WoW arenas for a while and many, many games do matches in form of multiple rounds (with or without shuffle inbetween) - Marvel Rivals being just the latest good example.

We are s9lving for a problem zos created by introducing this terrible two team format. No one ever said. What do we do about spawn camping with three teams. I've said it here before. Chasing bad code with bad code is not a good idea. Right the ship, revert to three teams. Them improve. Everything short of that is a screen door on a submarine.

If it's "bad code", then why does pretty much every competitive PvP game out there utilize team vs team format? And if you think battlegrounds in ESO were some stellar example of superior PvP format, then why were there only like 20 players queueing for the 3-way battlegrounds while we get multiple lobbies for the 2-way format with different players throughout the day?


If you enjoy the 3-way format, you still have Cyrodiil for that. Plenty of empty flags to run to and capture, plenty of people to third party while they fight another faction... still offers everything the 3-way BGs did.

Because those games are those games and this is eso. This game was built and balanced on three team pvp. That's why I play this game and not those games.

I am in two bg guilds that are always completely full. One on ps5 and one on pcna. This statement about 20 people is just false. It's just absolutely false.

The increased participation, as I've stated before, is a mirage, or self fulfilling prophecy. Because people want the swag. Once that's gone/had. We will really see what these new bgs have in terms of participation.

I did cyro for years and moved to bgs because of lag, Dark Convergence and ROA.

Actually ESO was built without battlegrounds at all, the only thing there at the beginning was Cyrodiil - even dueling (1v1 btw, not 1v1v1) was added later. The reason 3-way battlegrounds format never took off is because it simply doesn't work and doesn't appeal to a different audience than the Cyrodiil enjoyers.

You are speaking about your own personal preferences here as part of a very, very, very small amount of players who still kept playing and enjoyed the 3-way battlegrounds.

I am also in a BG guild... pretty much the only one that was even remotely active on PC EU - and out of the 500 or so people in that guild, there would be anywhere between zero and 2-3 in a battleground when logging in. Full guild doesn't mean anything since you can't enforce player behaviour - being in a big PvE raiding guild doesn't mean you're going to see most people in Trials 24/7.

There is nothing false about my statement of 20~ active BG players that you'd see in battlegrounds on PC EU (the most populated megaserver) over the last year or two of 3-way BGs, there's literally hundreds of Twitch VODs to prove that.


Also I wonder how long this "oh it's still new and there's rewards" line is going to go on for... if anything I'm still coming across new names queueing into BGs, despite them being out for literally months now - you can buy every new set item for 1-2k gold and style pages take maybe 10-20 BGs to grind. That, and by your logic everyone would be playing 4v4s (not 8v8) since that's the only way to get Galeskirmish Gladiator pages. Sorry, things just don't add up here and I think you might be on some copium.

My recommendation? Take a step back, enjoy Cyrodiil or ask for fixes to it (dcon & ROA are super easy to just play around btw) - what is best for the game is having multiple different formats of PvP that as wide variety of players as possible can enjoy. This game is not "my game" or "your game", it's everyone's.

Didn't say they were built around battlegrounds. I said 3 team pvp. If you aren't going to read and/or respond to what I type there's not point in a back and, well. Not forth. 3 team cyro, THEN, THREE TEAM BGS. Not sure you can have 3 person duels... you're grasping at straws now. It's pretty apparent.

I don't play on pceu. I am very sorry for you.

I came across new names before all the time. You're painting a rosy picture of one side of an argument which is disingenuous to say the least.

I don't want to play cyro. Again, I've explained why. I also do not need your suggestions on what/how to play games. Thanks though.

I want to play battlegrounds that I've played and loved for many years and zos, in their infinite wisdom, has completely torn apart. I am really not quite sure where your apologetics are coming from, but it's odd. If you like this format then play them. I should be able to play the format i like. There is no reason to remove content from the game and I've already posted on this.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668202/why-remove-a-functioning-part-of-the-game-bgs#latest

You have stated your position that you like this. I have stated mine that I don't. I am not arguing with you. I am arguing a point.

Never took off?

Bro, you are pulling things from thin air. I think I am done here.

silky_soft

Remove the free range 28m skills get from battle spirit.

ceruulean

For 4v4 it needs to be a bit more formal, like 1 death per person per round, and then reset positions at the beginning. Same as how you reset in a real life sport. Or redesign the maps to have slopes so you can walk into battle instead of falling.

8v8 already has more exits from spawn, so probably add a bigger safe zone where you can't attack nor be attacked

xylena_lazarow

Spawn zones should be non-interactive like they are in IC base or Cyro towns.

Mercy rule or forfeit option for lopsided matches.

Major_Mangle

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Spawn zones should be non-interactive like they are in IC base or Cyro towns.

Mercy rule or forfeit option for lopsided matches.

Agree on the sanctuary zone, should be a thing in battlegrounds, but also reduce the timer on how long you can stay in spawn before you get teleported down (30 sec at most).

Disagree on forfeit vote, people in eso would genuinely just instantly vote to concede the moment they don't have tailwind, and it would be borderline griefing towards anyone involved in the BG. If you want a forfeit option it should come with some serious downsides like not being able to queue for another game straight away, no AP/exp/rewards etc. God forbid I queue for a BG, wait 15 +min just for the enemy team to concede after the first brawl/fight, would actually be an awful experience.

Edit:
Wanna add that I don't care if I win/lose a game as long as I get to spend more time in a BG than waiting for one.

xylena_lazarow

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Disagree on forfeit vote, people in eso would genuinely just instantly vote to concede

I'd assume the forfeit vote would be unavailable until the score gap hits a certain threshhold to prevent this.

Adremal

Invulnerability in the spawn zone, a concede button and a mechanism that teleports people in after a certain amount of time.

CalamityCat

Rather than a buff, I'd prefer spawn points had teleporters so we can port to different areas of the map.

Only match premade groups with other premade ones, likewise with random teams.

Also, I think it would be fun if two (or three) premade groups (of 4 or 8 members) could invite another specific group to private BG fights eg during a guild event or guild v guild. Then fights could be more controllable for newer PvPers or those who would prefer a "friendly" match.

Bring back three teams too.