Is ESO an MMO first, or "TES Online" first? You decide!

Erickson9610

Yes, the game is technically both — it's a TES-themed MMO, with some of the features from both the singleplayer TES games and the staples of the MMORPG genre. In this poll, however, you must choose which half of ESO is most important to you. Are you here because it's "Skyrim Online", or are you here for the MMO side of things?

TaSheen

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

I was deeply grateful to discover that ESO is NOT like WoW or RIFT - in other words, not "MMO-ish" in the ways those games were.

metheglyn

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

I just saw a comment in another thread that mentioned the first option as the ideal for ESO, and I thought, "If that's what ESO was, I wouldn't be here."

So, yeah, I'm with @TaSheen on this one: very happy ESO is not like WoW in that way. I did the endgame grind in WoW once upon a time, and I never want to go back to that kind of gaming.

I really just like hanging out in Tamriel and questing around, roleplaying my characters. The minigames I can take or leave, depending.

kargen27

WhiteCoatSyndrome

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

If it weren’t in Tamriel, I wouldn’t be here. I don’t usually bother with MMOs.

spartaxoxo

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

I voted for Skyrim first because the devs have stated that's who's mostly playing, and I assume by extension it means also most of the money comes from there.

But, in actual reality, I think that should be making both things a priority. And I think they do a decent job of providing a variety of content for different playstyles.

colossalvoids

ESO is an MMO first! Prioritize things like PvP and endgame PvE combat.

The thing is, it's both. But when one part is getting shafted people would surely bring up that the balance is getting skewed and it affects everyone to some extent, sooner or later.

metheglyn

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

Well, perhaps with their new plans for content release, they can better realize a "prioritize both" tactic. But the poll asked which is most important to me, and that's definitely not endgame type activities.

Soarora

Can't vote, it's "TES Online" first right now, but it should shift towards "MMO first" because if it doesn't, TES6 is going to wreck it. I came because its a TES game, but there's just fundamental problems with the game that stop it from becoming a true TES mmo (like I think it would've been better to have a different class system entirely and thematic sets that are all relevant, would've even been cooler if we got to have playable races that aren't playable in other games). ESO is one of the better MMOs out there, or else people who leave wouldn't be coming back, and people wouldn't be coming here from other MMOs. It has potential but it needs to choose.

ESO_player123

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

I joined ESO because I watched another person play it and noticed how much can be achieved solo and that PvP is completely optional (the main thing for me was solo questing set in TES universe). Eventually I started to participate in group activities such as dungeons and easy normal trials in PUGs, but I would not be here if it was not for the ability to do stuff solo.

JemadarofCaerSalis

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

While I don't mind ESO having PvP content, nor more endgame content, I generally dislike PvP, and wouldn't be playing ESO if it were like the others that have mandatory PvP.

The only two reasons I am playing ESO, over the other MMOs that have been given away for free at some point, or are free completley, is because of the non-mandatory PvP and because it is an Elder Scrolls title.

I do like the fact that you can group up and help others or others can help you, which is why I don't mind that ESO is ES*O* and has multiplayer aspects.

manukartofanu

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

Yes, ESO is, first and foremost, The Elder Scrolls, and I think that’s part of the issue. Let’s be honest—if a single-player game had the same storytelling and quest design as ESO, it wouldn’t have achieved the same iconic status as Skyrim, which remains one of the most celebrated games in the series, or even Morrowind and Oblivion, which are also highly regarded classics.

For an MMO, ESO does have good stories and quests, but they don’t come close to the narrative depth and impact of the best single-player RPGs. Because of this, putting too much emphasis on questing and mini-games in ESO feels like a misstep. At its core, ESO is an MMO, and it’s MMO-style activities that provide replayability, not questing.

For example, I’ve replayed Morrowind from the beginning about ten times over the years, and even after completing the same quests countless times, they still feel fresh and engaging. In ESO, however, by the time I created my second character, I was already skipping dialogue and cutscenes because they felt more like a chore than an experience.

tomofhyrule

What is it, or what should it be? Because those are two different answers.

It started as an MMO with an Elder Scrolls coat of paint. The only endgame after a bunch of solo questing (or grouping specifically with people in your own alliance) was PvP. That... didn't do so well.

So the game started to pivot. It started to cater more towards the Elder Scrolls fan who wanted to play "Skyrim with Friends." But it also still gave the higher-level people something else - PvE endgame content. And over time, it felt more and more like the casual Elder Scrolls experience was the goal, with MMO as a sideshow. And that was a good move. One Tamriel allowed ESO to really expand into a top MMO, as opposed to being another sweaty-only game laden with toxicity. It brought so many new people into the game who would never have touched an MMO because it gave them the TES fix they were longing for.

The problem is that this game needs both of those things, and it hasn't pivoted back yet. It's been focused on getting new players, but also not listening to the issues brought up by the high-level players. As such, this game right now is extremely focused on being a TES game for people who don't have TES6 yet, and any players who came for the MMO experience have moved on. And even then, the quality of the quests we've had have been on a downward spiral (each quest is extremely linear, basically no choices are involved, and the NPCs continually treat your character like they have the brainpower of a goldfish). There's no way that MMORPG questing can even hope to hold a candle to pure solo RPG questing (and choices! And dialogue/reactions based on race/species/class/skills/etc.!), and that would even be considering that the quality of ESO's quests was still at Orsinium-level... which it is not.

While it's nice to have an MMO that's different from the others, the issue with focusing exclusively on the solo TES fans is that that's the group that is almost guaranteed to disappear the second TES6 finally releases. And if ESO has already driven off the MMO fans by that point, then who's left?

ESO needs to realize its place - it's not a traditional MMO, but it does have traditional MMO elements. Its also not a traditional TES game either, but it's got the universe. It needs to accept its fans come from two different worlds and try to appease both... or at least not actively push either group away. Because both bases will pretty well leave as soon as another game comes into the picture (an MMO that focuses on the MMO aspect, or TES6). So either ESO needs to start pivoting back to the MMO base (focus on high-level PvE and PvP content), or it needs to offer the solo TES fan something that won't be in TES6 so they have a reason to keep coming back to it (worlds all over Tamriel to explore and new spells that can be used e.g. new classes) so that it can try to retain its population before they drop it completely.

Syldras

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

metheglyn wrote: »

I just saw a comment in another thread that mentioned the first option as the ideal for ESO, and I thought, "If that's what ESO was, I wouldn't be here."
So, yeah, I'm with @TaSheen on this one: very happy ESO is not like WoW in that way. I did the endgame grind in WoW once upon a time, and I never want to go back to that kind of gaming.
I really just like hanging out in Tamriel and questing around, roleplaying my characters. The minigames I can take or leave, depending.

Exactly this.

I don't think ESO neccessarily has to die once TES6 is released. Sure, some players will leave for TES6 for a while, but at some point, even with mods available, you have seen everything and want some new stories and places. And it does make a difference, for people who are interested in the lore, at least, whether it's 2nd era or 4rd era and whether movement is restricted to one province or whether we can move around on the whole continent. So, even if I have to split my freetime on both ESO and TES6 after the latter was released, I still don't see them as competitors.

Freelancer_ESO

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

With both ESO and SWTOR, the only reason I got the game was because I wanted a new title to play in the world and a new single player option didn't exist.

Further, in my view ESO isn't the strongest MMO as I feel the content tends to either aim too much towards metrics or too much towards a small audience.

metheglyn

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I just saw a comment in another thread that mentioned the first option as the ideal for ESO, and I thought, "If that's what ESO was, I wouldn't be here."
So, yeah, I'm with @TaSheen on this one: very happy ESO is not like WoW in that way. I did the endgame grind in WoW once upon a time, and I never want to go back to that kind of gaming.
I really just like hanging out in Tamriel and questing around, roleplaying my characters. The minigames I can take or leave, depending.

Exactly this.

I don't think ESO neccessarily has to die once TES6 is released. Sure, some players will leave for TES6 for a while, but at some point, even with mods available, you have seen everything and want some new stories and places. And it does make a difference, for people who are interested in the lore, at least, whether it's 2nd era or 4rd era and whether movement is restricted to one province or whether we can move around on the whole continent. So, even if I have to split my freetime on both ESO and TES6 after the latter was released, I still don't see them as competitors.

Yeah, I feel the same way regarding TES6. I'm sure I will play it when it releases (I've played every Elder Scrolls game in its time) and I am looking forward to it. But however good it is, as a single player game it won't have the longevity of content that ESO does. Plus, I really like the second era lore I've been getting exposed to in ESO, and one of the upsides for me is the Tribunal is still in existence. It kind of broke my heart in Skyrim when I realized what the Dunmer had been reduced to.

Stamicka

ESO is an MMO first! Prioritize things like PvP and endgame PvE combat.

The game released with a heavy PvP focus and more of an MMO feel. I think they should have stayed on that path.

People will try to argue that moving away from the original vision saved the game, but that’s just not true. ESO struggled in 2014 for way different reasons than the game being MMO and PvP focused.

The hyper casual Elder Scrolls crowd has really ruined the game in my opinion. Too much catering to them has got us here and the game is bleeding players.

Desiato

ESO is an MMO first! Prioritize things like PvP and endgame PvE combat.

I would divide the userbase into 3 groups.

1. Straight chapter players: only play ESO as a single player game, don't engage with other players or the crown store outside of dlc

2. Casual hybrid players: into chapter stories, questing, but also mmo social activities, housing, trading and collecting

3. MMO players: play ESO like an MMO, may also engage in all other activities

Of course, in reality it's much more granular than that. Of this group the target audience has pretty clearly been group 1 since Morrowind. They, of course, are not well-represented in the forums despite generating the most revenue IMO.

Group 3 is the most embittered as they were the target audience at launch, but have felt alienated from ZOS as they've watched the game change in ways they do not prefer.

What I think ZOS has tried and failed to do by nerfing the poop out of their own gameplay is get group 1 into the MMO side of the game. It seems they may be re-thinking this approach, but we'll have to see.

JemadarofCaerSalis

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

Syldras wrote: »

metheglyn wrote: »

I just saw a comment in another thread that mentioned the first option as the ideal for ESO, and I thought, "If that's what ESO was, I wouldn't be here."
So, yeah, I'm with @TaSheen on this one: very happy ESO is not like WoW in that way. I did the endgame grind in WoW once upon a time, and I never want to go back to that kind of gaming.
I really just like hanging out in Tamriel and questing around, roleplaying my characters. The minigames I can take or leave, depending.

Exactly this.

I don't think ESO neccessarily has to die once TES6 is released. Sure, some players will leave for TES6 for a while, but at some point, even with mods available, you have seen everything and want some new stories and places. And it does make a difference, for people who are interested in the lore, at least, whether it's 2nd era or 4rd era and whether movement is restricted to one province or whether we can move around on the whole continent. So, even if I have to split my freetime on both ESO and TES6 after the latter was released, I still don't see them as competitors.

I was thinking about this as well.

I see this on other games, not MMOs, but website games, where when a competitor site comes out, there will be people going 'this is going to spell the doom of *insert game name here*' and it never is.

There are many factors that go into it.

1. Price - A lot of people might not be able to buy TES6 when it comes out, so they will stick with what they have already paid for: eso, especially since ESO is still getting new content. No, it isn't like a brand new game, but it will still be something to keep them interested while waiting for TES 6 to come down in price.
2. Required Specs - Again, many people are using older devices that might not be able to handle TES6 if it has too high of specs, and again, this will keep people coming back to a game they already know they can play without frying their device.
3. Availablility - I don't know what is planned, but what devices the game is available for (and how it plays on them) will also affect things. I am a PC gamer exclusively, and I was so sad when I saw Red Dead Redemption 2 was only available for consoles, because it looked fun and I wanted to play it. I was happy (though still a bit daunted by price) when it was made available for PC. If TES6 is only available for certain consoles/PCs, then again, people are going to be going to the tried and true of ESO
4. Playability - While this is Bethesda and TES, so I expect it to be replayable, a lot of people might just play it once, and then come back to ESO, especially if they deem it to be not replayable.
5. This sort of comes under Playability, but Moddibility - Again, TES and Bethesda, so I expect highly moddable, but, again, it all depends on the choices made.
6. This falls under what Syldras was saying, but the design choices made matter, especially for an established franchise like TES. What lore they decide to use, how they decide to develop it, what choices they make for skills and characters and how they implement them, writing and all those little things that can make or break a game. I have seen a lot of heavy criticism of other games, typically all falling under this umbrella, when people don't like the direction of the game, especially for established franchises, when the developers decide to take a new direction.

There is a lot more that people would potentially consider before completely leaving ESO for TES6. Will people leave? Of course, they do that for pretty much any game that comes out that strikes their fancy. But that doesn't mean that it will be the 'death' of ESO, nor that most will leave, or that none will come back.

AzuraFan

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

If ESO was primarily MMOish, I would have tried it out and dropped it.

JemadarofCaerSalis wrote: »

1. Price - A lot of people might not be able to buy TES6 when it comes out, so they will stick with what they have already paid for: eso, especially since ESO is still getting new content. No, it isn't like a brand new game, but it will still be something to keep them interested while waiting for TES 6 to come down in price.

Since it'll be part of PC and XBox Gamepass on day one, price shouldn't be an issue for anyone. Just subscribe for a month or two.

Warhawke_80

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

ESO hasn't been a MMO since 2016....It's a Online RPG with light MMO elements...Most (Successful) guilds are strictly social and have little to do with the MMO genre.

ArchangelIsraphel

To be honest with you, I can't rightly pick either option, because I play all of the content in this game. PVP and endgame PVE are a part of how my guild and I roleplay our characters- becoming skilled at both to embody the abilities of the character as we envision them to be has enhanced our experience a great deal. It's sort of funny to me that roleplayers get thrown into the "casual" group quite frequently, because as roleplayers, we're anything but.

We're relaxed people, we don't enforce our standards on others. But if anything, the tools given to us by the game to express a characters personality (questing, housing, fashion, crafting) only drive us to fight harder and learn more. Not necessarily because we're seeking rewards related to those things, but because we derive satisfaction from doing more than just saying a character has done something in the narrative we write- we want those accomplishments to be something we've actually earned in game.

It might be a very different view from others, but I don't see the two sides of the game as separate things. I see them as a complete whole, and I want both parts to be nurtured equally. I wouldn't be doing PVP and PVE in this game if I didn't have narrative reason to do so, but at the same time, I wouldn't be roleplaying here if my characters were not presented with challenges to overcome via the content and mechanics.

I think they coexist in ways that the DEV team isn't quite aware of, because the way in which each player engages with ESO can be very unique depending on who they are. That's honestly an advantage it has over other games- what it offers is so broad that the player base is incredibly eclectic. I've never felt it could be clearly defined as one or the other because of that.

blktauna

ESO is an MMO first! Prioritize things like PvP and endgame PvE combat.

For me its an MMO. I had no idea what Tamriel or Elder Scrolls were before I got here. I saw Miss Shirley play it on the computer her son had just built for her ( a departure from her Skyrim adventures for sure) And as soon as I saw it I had to play. I honestly don't even think I saw the rest of her video, I just got the game, loaded it up and was all in.

valenwood_vegan

I only reluctantly bought ESO on sale and tried it out because I came from the "casual", single-player TES world. I stayed because it turned out to offer a lot for that type of player.

I'm still here years later because of the MMO aspects, and the people I met along the way.

But certainly I suppose it's easier to put everyone in boxes.

CatoUnchained

ESO is an MMO first! Prioritize things like PvP and endgame PvE combat.

This poll will divide the community whether that's the intention of the OP or not.

CatoUnchained

ESO is an MMO first! Prioritize things like PvP and endgame PvE combat.

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

ESO hasn't been a MMO since 2016....It's a Online RPG with light MMO elements...Most (Successful) guilds are strictly social and have little to do with the MMO genre.

ZOS did radically change course with ESO, but it wasn't until about 2018 or 2019.

This casuals vs. vets stuff has to stop. Nefas did a great video about how this conflict is killing ESO. The casual community wants to take away all the great things in ESO that are for the end game, competitive players and it makes for a horrible gaming environment as well as repeated conflict on this forum.

Stirring the pot with this "poll" is not a good thing.

Taril

Erickson9610 wrote: »

ESO is most important to you. Are you here because it's "Skyrim Online", or are you here for the MMO side of things?

Yes.

For real though, I'm here because of a combination of factors.

From the MMO side of things:

- Persistent (Open) world
- Continued content updates
- The more structured MMO combat (I.e. Having actual skills to use instead of TES's "I bonk them with my bonking stick")
- The variation of content (There's more difficult, group orientated content like WB's, Dungeons, Trials)
- Balance (Becoming a super-powerful god through Blacksmith/Enchant cheese is all well and good but it does kind of take the fun away)

From the TES side of things:

- Thieving and stealth (Albeit these things have become nigh redundant in the years since TB/DB)
- Tamriel itself (Although I would LOVE a chance to actually explore other continents of Nirn instead of every TES game being Tamriel focused)
- Stories (Especially Daedric Princes. They're neat and interesting. Yes, even Uncle Sheo)
- Vampirism/Lycanthropy
- Guilds and their questlines (Specifically the Fighter's Guild, Mage's Guild, Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood not player guilds)

For most of its life ESO has been seemingly stuck trying to figure out which side it should lean into. I don't know if it's wise to pick a side now, given that the community is split between the 2.

As far as what I'd prefer? I'd probably err towards "TES Online" because;

- I have 0 interest in the PvP in this game. Honestly, I've not really had much fun with any MMO's PvP since WoW Classic AV (Actual classic from 20 years ago, back when everyone was a noob and AV was all about having week long battles against other players). Warhammer Online was sort of cromulent though it did simply devolve into the lead designers 3 favourite classes dominating the entire game and every other class was kind of meh at best (Outside keep battles where WL's and Witches/WH had some unique abilities that were useful)

- Organized PvE is... Ehh... 20+ years spent main tanking and many years being a Raid Leader has gotten me to a point where I'm a little tired of the whole notion of "My success depends on other people not being complete and utter failures" has worn thin (Since apparently that bar is too high for many people)

- Other MMO features (Trading, Socializing etc.) can still exist in a "TES Online" game.

Ruthless

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

best quests of all the mmos I played

SeaGtGruff

I can't vote for either option, because I don't care for their descriptions.

Initially, I began playing ESO because it's an ES game, and I spent many, many hours each day trying to explore every nook and cranny I came across, and do all of the quests.

But one day I relaxed my intensity and settled into a daily routine of activities that I enjoy-- not necessarily the same activities each and every day.

So the reason I play ESO as much as I do is because it's an MMO, although to me that doesn't necessarily mean PvP and endgame PvE.

manukartofanu

ESO is "TES Online" first! Prioritize things like questing, roleplay, and minigames.

Desiato wrote: »

I would divide the userbase into 3 groups.

1. Straight chapter players: only play ESO as a single player game, don't engage with other players or the crown store outside of dlc

2. Casual hybrid players: into chapter stories, questing, but also mmo social activities, housing, trading and collecting

3. MMO players: play ESO like an MMO, may also engage in all other activities

Of course, in reality it's much more granular than that. Of this group the target audience has pretty clearly been group 1 since Morrowind. They, of course, are not well-represented in the forums despite generating the most revenue IMO.

Group 3 is the most embittered as they were the target audience at launch, but have felt alienated from ZOS as they've watched the game change in ways they do not prefer.

What I think ZOS has tried and failed to do by nerfing the poop out of their own gameplay is get group 1 into the MMO side of the game. It seems they may be re-thinking this approach, but we'll have to see.

Even if the first group were the top revenue drivers, which is highly debatable, focusing on them is a risky strategy. They’re an unreliable audience that requires constant effort and significant marketing resources to engage. They might skip buying the new chapter altogether and opt for a different game if another game's advertisement catches their attention more effectively.

That said, moving away from chapters says a lot about the direction being taken.

CatoUnchained

ESO is an MMO first! Prioritize things like PvP and endgame PvE combat.

manukartofanu wrote: »

Desiato wrote: »

I would divide the userbase into 3 groups.

1. Straight chapter players: only play ESO as a single player game, don't engage with other players or the crown store outside of dlc

2. Casual hybrid players: into chapter stories, questing, but also mmo social activities, housing, trading and collecting

3. MMO players: play ESO like an MMO, may also engage in all other activities

Of course, in reality it's much more granular than that. Of this group the target audience has pretty clearly been group 1 since Morrowind. They, of course, are not well-represented in the forums despite generating the most revenue IMO.

Group 3 is the most embittered as they were the target audience at launch, but have felt alienated from ZOS as they've watched the game change in ways they do not prefer.

What I think ZOS has tried and failed to do by nerfing the poop out of their own gameplay is get group 1 into the MMO side of the game. It seems they may be re-thinking this approach, but we'll have to see.

Even if the first group were the top revenue drivers, which is highly debatable, focusing on them is a risky strategy. They’re an unreliable audience that requires constant effort and significant marketing resources to engage. They might skip buying the new chapter altogether and opt for a different game if another game's advertisement catches their attention more effectively.

That said, moving away from chapters says a lot about the direction being taken.

You're obviously talking about the casual players who only log on for a few hours/week, right?