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ESO 2.0
AvidNecro
✭✭✭
Just for fun I wanted to jot down my thoughts on paper so I can click back and reread. ZOS should look into rereleasing ESO on a new engine and drop the older generation consoles. The new engine will allow for cross platform compatibility and creating new opportunities for the increase in memory since the older generation consoles won’t be an issue anymore. Not to mention the whales over on Linux. Get with the program already.
Lastly, please bring mouse and keyboard console. That is all. Thanks.
Lastly, please bring mouse and keyboard console. That is all. Thanks.
Necromancer Main [XboxNA] Follow me on YT and Twitch
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SkaiFaith✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just for fun I wanted to jot down my thoughts on paper so I can click back and reread. ZOS should look into rereleasing ESO on a new engine and drop the older generation consoles. The new engine will allow for cross platform compatibility and creating new opportunities for the increase in memory since the older generation consoles won’t be an issue anymore. Not to mention the whales over on Linux. Get with the program already.
Lastly, please bring mouse and keyboard console. That is all. Thanks.
Seeing a lot of negativity recently, your idea gives me this thought: if Zos' next game (different IP) is going to launch soon, they indeed could start to work on ESO2 soon. Maybe for 20th anniversary that's what we'll get.
Elder Scrolls IP is a beloved one and if TES6 goes well, ESO2 could have a good market, even years later.Edited by SkaiFaith on December 27, 2024 1:05PMA: "We, as humans, should respect and take care of each other like in a Co-op, not a PvP 🌸"
B: "Many words. Words bad. Won't read. ⚔️"3 -
Ph1p✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm sure many people would love better graphics and effects, but making a new ESO 2.0 to replace the current one would make zero sense for ZOS. Even just making a mere copy of the existing game on a new engine would be a massive undertaking similar to developing a completely new game - probably even bigger, since there is 10 years worth of content to recreate. There is no way ZOS has the required people, capabilities, and funding for such an effort, when they're working on another AAA game already.
There is also way too much risk that the new version would be buggy or unstable. After all, we're talking about a new game engine that ZOS would be much less experienced in. Or it might simply not be to people's liking. All it takes is people's characters, weapons, animations, effects, costumes, or other things to look or feel too different and people will complain. Why take such a massive financial risk, when the current ESO is still profitable at a fraction of such cost?
Besides, how would you recoup the investment anyway? Would I have to buy a new full-price copy of the new game? If not, how many new players does this have to attract to make it worthwhile? I doubt there is a giant untapped player base that would readily jump onto ESO if it looked a bit better and had higher furnishing limits than today...
And what if I don't want to switch or can't? Keeping ESO 1.0 and 2.0 running in parallel would be expensive and difficult to manage. But if the old version is gone, it would break existing communities and guilds - not least because you're dropping support for older consoles. Imagine the outcry if ZOS were to announce such a move... No, even though I'd welcome graphical and technical improvements, porting ESO to a new engine would make no sense to me.11 -
Cooperharley✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nah let’s improve the one we have. They’re not going to do that, if at all, for an unbelievably long time especially when they’re working on a whole other gamePS5-NA. For The Queen!6 -
Oceanchanter✭✭✭Cooperharley wrote: »Nah let’s improve the one we have. They’re not going to do that, if at all, for an unbelievably long time especially when they’re working on a whole other game
Exactly.
You don't move from a house you lived at for 10 years just because you want it prettier. You renovate it.
And like @Ph1p have said - in short it would be a disaster for both ZOS and the playerbase.8 -
AvidNecro✭✭✭Oceanchanter wrote: »Cooperharley wrote: »Nah let’s improve the one we have. They’re not going to do that, if at all, for an unbelievably long time especially when they’re working on a whole other game
Exactly.
You don't move from a house you lived at for 10 years just because you want it prettier. You renovate it.
And like @Ph1p have said - in short it would be a disaster for both ZOS and the playerbase.
I mean… if the foundation is struggling and you would benefit rebuilding for long term use you would. What you said is the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig…. Look at WoW… still thriving.Necromancer Main [XboxNA] Follow me on YT and Twitch2 -
Ph1p✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oceanchanter wrote: »Cooperharley wrote: »Nah let’s improve the one we have. They’re not going to do that, if at all, for an unbelievably long time especially when they’re working on a whole other game
Exactly.
You don't move from a house you lived at for 10 years just because you want it prettier. You renovate it.
And like @Ph1p have said - in short it would be a disaster for both ZOS and the playerbase.
I mean… if the foundation is struggling and you would benefit rebuilding for long term use you would. What you said is the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig…. Look at WoW… still thriving.
That sort of rebuilding is what they did with Final Fantasy 14. Its first release was a massive flop, so they completely remade it, including a new engine. But that happened soon after the initial launch and with a game which was such a critical and commercial failure that Square Enix thought it had damaged the whole franchise. So they were willing to invest into the development of FFXIV 2.0, which took like 2.5 years.
In contrast, despite all its flaws and issues, ESO has been going well (enough) after 10 years. Let’s fix and improve things, but in my opinion, a new version with a different engine is just not good for ZOS or us players.6 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cooperharley wrote: »Nah let’s improve the one we have. They’re not going to do that, if at all, for an unbelievably long time especially when they’re working on a whole other game
Considering how many AAA releases were faring this year, this also seems to be the financially better decision.1 -
LPapirius✭✭✭✭✭Just for fun I wanted to jot down my thoughts on paper so I can click back and reread. ZOS should look into rereleasing ESO on a new engine and drop the older generation consoles. The new engine will allow for cross platform compatibility and creating new opportunities for the increase in memory since the older generation consoles won’t be an issue anymore. Not to mention the whales over on Linux. Get with the program already.
Lastly, please bring mouse and keyboard console. That is all. Thanks.
People been posting this since 2018....and they're still right today.2 -
Oceanchanter✭✭✭Oceanchanter wrote: »Cooperharley wrote: »Nah let’s improve the one we have. They’re not going to do that, if at all, for an unbelievably long time especially when they’re working on a whole other game
Exactly.
You don't move from a house you lived at for 10 years just because you want it prettier. You renovate it.
And like @Ph1p have said - in short it would be a disaster for both ZOS and the playerbase.
I mean… if the foundation is struggling and you would benefit rebuilding for long term use you would. What you said is the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig…. Look at WoW… still thriving.
The list you mentioned is about consoles mostly.
And while I do understand console players wanting crossplay or having a better experience, I don't really think ESO 2.0 is a solution anyone benefits from long term.
Especially if it benefits only small group short term, while for majority of the playerbase would be hit like with a ton of bricks.
The whole idea creates lots of issues that will put majority of players in a tough situation - to put it nicely.
Do they have the technology to transfer everything we worked for since the release to the new game?
Will sets and collections people spent weeks to complete will transfer too?
What about paid products, like loot from the crates, houses, assistants, skins, and many more?
And I barely touched the tip of the iceberg with those questions alone.
It's very unlikely to happen, thank the heavens.2 -
Desiato✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The gaming industry is reeling right now and there is little appetite among publishers to create high budget high fidelity games.
The games that are earning the most are a lot like ESO with simpler engines and constant influxes of new content.
Unless the project ZOS is working on is ESO 2, I doubt it's something that is going to happen anytime soon.
IF Bethesda was smart, they'd be looking at GTA V/Online as the model to follow for TES6 and use it as a platform to sell ESO-like Homestead and other Crown Store products. But I think I read they had a reluctance to do so...
It could be why they are talking about transitioning to a new content release paradigm with seasons instead of chapters -- repositioning ESO as more of an mmo because TES6 will handle new TES story content in the near future.
Edited by Desiato on December 28, 2024 11:13PMspending a year dead for tax reasons1 -
Taril✭✭✭✭✭Oceanchanter wrote: »Cooperharley wrote: »Nah let’s improve the one we have. They’re not going to do that, if at all, for an unbelievably long time especially when they’re working on a whole other game
Exactly.
You don't move from a house you lived at for 10 years just because you want it prettier. You renovate it.
And like @Ph1p have said - in short it would be a disaster for both ZOS and the playerbase.
I mean… if the foundation is struggling and you would benefit rebuilding for long term use you would. What you said is the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig…. Look at WoW… still thriving.
That sort of rebuilding is what they did with Final Fantasy 14. Its first release was a massive flop, so they completely remade it, including a new engine. But that happened soon after the initial launch and with a game which was such a critical and commercial failure that Square Enix thought it had damaged the whole franchise. So they were willing to invest into the development of FFXIV 2.0, which took like 2.5 years.
In contrast, despite all its flaws and issues, ESO has been going well (enough) after 10 years. Let’s fix and improve things, but in my opinion, a new version with a different engine is just not good for ZOS or us players.
It's worth noting that FFXIV's rebuild was still based a lot on the original (Terrible) code, which has been hampering them ever since, limiting their capabilities to implement things and make improvements.
Which is similar to what Cyberpunk 2077 faces with its 2.0 version, as a conversion from the 1.0 many design elements and overall functions are based on the original (Terrible) implementations.
Meaning for best results, it's better to start completely from scratch than to repurpose an exisitng game.
Of course, from a business standpoint, it's cheaper to do the opposite and "Overhaul" an existing game, reusing as much as possible.
In regards to ESO, it's hard to say as someone not part of the development team, exactly how much of ESO's issues is based on the engine and overall base code and thus would benefit from a recreation in a different engine (Or as a brand new game entirely) and how much is based on the teams overall limited resources (Time and money) and thus any overhaul/rebuild would do nothing to actually help.
If the theory that the ESO team is being downsized as people get shifted over to work on ZOS's upcoming MMO, then resources will become an increasingly prevalent source of issues and actively putting an incredible workload in the form of an overhaul would be the literal worst thing to do.
To say nothing of the notion of "Ending support for older consoles" like any executive would greenlight actively removing customers...1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Introducing cross play would pretty much mean everybody starts over with new characters. Just switching to a new engine might be enough to require players starting from scratch?
and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
KaironBlackbard✭✭✭The gaming industry is reeling right now and there is little appetite among publishers to create high budget high fidelity games.
The games that are earning the most are a lot like ESO with simpler engines and constant influxes of new content.
Unless the project ZOS is working on is ESO 2, I doubt it's something that is going to happen anytime soon.
IF Bethesda was smart, they'd be looking at GTA V/Online as the model to follow for TES6 and use it as a platform to sell ESO-like Homestead and other Crown Store products. But I think I read they had a reluctance to do so...
It could be why they are talking about transitioning to a new content release paradigm with seasons instead of chapters -- repositioning ESO as more of an mmo because TES6 will handle new TES story content in the near future.
Ouch, no not seasons no. I hate those concepts. And I'd love a law to be made to prevent them from existing. Those things are a nightmare. You think you have it nearly complete and shortly after its reset and all your work was for naught.
Just look at Apex and various others. I think CoD has something like it in one of theirs?
No, I prefer like we have at current.
Like there is in Titanfall 2 even.
No seasons.
If it runs smoothly, it runs smoothly.
Titanfall 2 hasn't had an update in years and it runs strong. Since all the cheaters left for Apex, the game feels nice to play.
As for ESO, it's about the story. If they don't give more story, why bother playing it?
But as for now, we have PLENTY of story. I just wish they'd open up more of the non zone areas as more zones.
I'd also like PvE versions of Imperial City and Cyrodiil, for those of us who want to do non-pvp quests and story missions or even just explore those zones, without the hassle of getting murdered every 5 minutes or less by another player.0 -
KaironBlackbard✭✭✭Oceanchanter wrote: »Cooperharley wrote: »Nah let’s improve the one we have. They’re not going to do that, if at all, for an unbelievably long time especially when they’re working on a whole other game
Exactly.
You don't move from a house you lived at for 10 years just because you want it prettier. You renovate it.
And like @Ph1p have said - in short it would be a disaster for both ZOS and the playerbase.
I mean… if the foundation is struggling and you would benefit rebuilding for long term use you would. What you said is the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig…. Look at WoW… still thriving.
That sort of rebuilding is what they did with Final Fantasy 14. Its first release was a massive flop, so they completely remade it, including a new engine. But that happened soon after the initial launch and with a game which was such a critical and commercial failure that Square Enix thought it had damaged the whole franchise. So they were willing to invest into the development of FFXIV 2.0, which took like 2.5 years.
In contrast, despite all its flaws and issues, ESO has been going well (enough) after 10 years. Let’s fix and improve things, but in my opinion, a new version with a different engine is just not good for ZOS or us players.
It's worth noting that FFXIV's rebuild was still based a lot on the original (Terrible) code, which has been hampering them ever since, limiting their capabilities to implement things and make improvements.
Which is similar to what Cyberpunk 2077 faces with its 2.0 version, as a conversion from the 1.0 many design elements and overall functions are based on the original (Terrible) implementations.
Meaning for best results, it's better to start completely from scratch than to repurpose an exisitng game.
Of course, from a business standpoint, it's cheaper to do the opposite and "Overhaul" an existing game, reusing as much as possible.
In regards to ESO, it's hard to say as someone not part of the development team, exactly how much of ESO's issues is based on the engine and overall base code and thus would benefit from a recreation in a different engine (Or as a brand new game entirely) and how much is based on the teams overall limited resources (Time and money) and thus any overhaul/rebuild would do nothing to actually help.
If the theory that the ESO team is being downsized as people get shifted over to work on ZOS's upcoming MMO, then resources will become an increasingly prevalent source of issues and actively putting an incredible workload in the form of an overhaul would be the literal worst thing to do.
To say nothing of the notion of "Ending support for older consoles" like any executive would greenlight actively removing customers...
I'm in the boat with the other guy: People have years of playtime. They don't want to lose it all just because they make a new version in another engine. They want to keep their progress.2 -
gronoxvx✭✭✭✭✭Even if they did it wouldnt bring back 90% of people after the absolute [snip] ESO has been since before U35. Most who left wont touch anything zos related again.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 29, 2024 11:13AM3 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. ESO still makes bank so the sequel, ESO 2.0, is not getting much consideration.
2. The engine is not likely to be the reason why we do not have transfers or cross-play/cross-save
3. As long as a significant number of console players are on the previous generation consoles, Zenimax will not drop support for them. It comes down to revenue. It is a business decision.
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moderatelyfatman✭✭✭✭✭
✭1. ESO still makes bank so the sequel, ESO 2.0, is not getting much consideration.
2. The engine is not likely to be the reason why we do not have transfers or cross-play/cross-save
3. As long as a significant number of console players are on the previous generation consoles, Zenimax will not drop support for them. It comes down to revenue. It is a business decision.
If ESO was still making bank, why would ZOS drop the US events?
I can understand getting rid of Chapters if they weren't profitable but basic customer relations such as social events is the lifeblood of a community based game like an MMO.2 -
Taril✭✭✭✭✭moderatelyfatman wrote: »basic customer relations such as social events is the lifeblood of a community based game like an MMO.
They actually aren't.
Most MMO's never do such things because the game thrives on the game itself. Not social events.
Heck, many MMO's even eschew the whole "Community" aspect with changes that actively detract from community based engagement (Such as cross-server matchmaking so people end up playing content with people they won't see again)
I always find it interesting on these forums when people deride ZOS for not communicating effectively and being the downfall of an MMO game when... Very few MMOs have any communication at all between developers and customers.
Communication and social events are not very common at all, even among MMO titles. Yet ESO players act like they're prerequisites.3 -
silky_soft✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't forget localized endgame instances. Surely in this day and age of cross play they could do dungeon, solo arena and trial content lobbies in Oceanic and South America.This recent update has made me sad. Sad for the game. Sad for the community. Sad to pay whatever it is now. I want the previous eso back.2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭moderatelyfatman wrote: »1. ESO still makes bank so the sequel, ESO 2.0, is not getting much consideration.
2. The engine is not likely to be the reason why we do not have transfers or cross-play/cross-save
3. As long as a significant number of console players are on the previous generation consoles, Zenimax will not drop support for them. It comes down to revenue. It is a business decision.
If ESO was still making bank, why would ZOS drop the US events?
I can understand getting rid of Chapters if they weren't profitable but basic customer relations such as social events is the lifeblood of a community based game like an MMO.
Please explain the exact reason Zenimax dropped the US event. Please enlighten me on their official statement on the reason. If guessing, then we will move on from speculation.
The fact that the game continues is a testament to the fact that ESO is still profitable. The solid fact they are still creating content proves they get enough return on that work to continue it. Businesses do not continue to spend money on projects that are not worth their time and especially that are not turning a profit.
This falls into Business 101.
0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭and support addons on console?
The lack of addons on console is not a ZoS issue.
Its and issue with those platforms not allowing addons, so it needs to be addressed with them but consoles are so paranoid about hackers 3rd party addons will never be allowed.Beta tester November 20130 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭An engine overhaul at some point is likely necessary.
However the amount of tech debt they’ve accrued over the years means it’d be a Herculean effort to get everything ported over to a new engine.
Maybe as part of the zone updates they’ll get assets setup for transfer to a new engine, and the process could be done over a few years, unless they’re scrapping ESO later for a different MMO
But as far as erasing all player progression for a new version, I don’t think that would work. Would need to push everything into the new engine.Edited by Avran_Sylt on January 6, 2025 3:38PM1 -
Thumbless_Bot✭✭✭✭✭I switched from ps5 to console about a year ago. I created the pc account about five years ago meaning to switch, but got i to other games for a long time.
I do not think the grind was that bad, having done it already. It really is like grinding a new toon except you have no cp to slot and you can't just craft any xp enhancing sets as you go. Otherwise, it was fairly straightforward and didn't take too long.
I really like this idea in theory, but I would be afraid that too mich of what I love about the game would be lost. If zos could solve for this with serious back and forth with players I would be all for it.
For those that don't want to lose their achievements, perhaps some of those titles, etc. Could be carried over.
Fwiw. I gave up over 12k columbine and about 5k dragon rheum when I switched over from console. So it isn't like I didn't have a lot of time invested I. Ps5.0 -
AzuraFan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just out of curiosity, how many times has an MMO been re-released on a new engine? I'm not that familiar with the games in the genre. I haven't heard of many outright sequels, either. Guild Wars 1 and 2. Any others? I know many do graphical overhauls - better textures and such. But not a brand new engine.
I haven't seen anything in the studio letter that suggests they're thinking about overhauling the engine and adding crossplay. I doubt it'll happen, but who knows?1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Just out of curiosity, how many times has an MMO been re-released on a new engine? I'm not that familiar with the games in the genre. I haven't heard of many outright sequels, either. Guild Wars 1 and 2. Any others? I know many do graphical overhauls - better textures and such. But not a brand new engine.
I haven't seen anything in the studio letter that suggests they're thinking about overhauling the engine and adding crossplay. I doubt it'll happen, but who knows?
A popular AI suggests the following:
"The concept of re-releasing an MMO on a new game engine is not very common, but there are notable instances where it has occurred:
- Final Fantasy XIV was famously re-released as "A Realm Reborn" in 2013, which involved a complete overhaul of the game, including moving it to a new engine. This was essentially a re-release of the game after the initial 2010 version was poorly received.
- Mortal Online 2 originally used Unreal Engine 4 but was updated to Unreal Engine 5 with its Patch 2.0.0.0 in November 2023, marking another example of an MMO being re-released on a new engine.
- While not strictly a full re-release, Elder Scrolls Online has seen significant engine updates over the years to improve its performance and visuals, though it's not clear if this would be considered a complete "re-release" on a new engine in the same vein as the above examples.
These instances suggest that while re-releases on new engines are not frequent in the MMO genre, they do happen when there is a need for significant improvement or a complete overhaul of the game's systems and aesthetics. However, these examples represent some of the more prominent cases rather than an exhaustive list, as smaller or less documented updates might exist."XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 - Final Fantasy XIV was famously re-released as "A Realm Reborn" in 2013, which involved a complete overhaul of the game, including moving it to a new engine. This was essentially a re-release of the game after the initial 2010 version was poorly received.
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Taril✭✭✭✭✭Just out of curiosity, how many times has an MMO been re-released on a new engine? I'm not that familiar with the games in the genre. I haven't heard of many outright sequels, either. Guild Wars 1 and 2. Any others?
FFXIV is the most notable for being remade in a new engine. Though that's because 1.0 version flopped hard.
Runescape also had some engine swaps. Firstly when it transitioned from being a browser based game to a stand alone title, then there was the creation of "New Runescape" that exists alongside the "Old School Runescape" which uses a different engine (Original browser based version used Runetek 2, OSRS uses Runetek 3 and NRS uses Runetek 7)
Anarchy Online has an optional new engine available, albeit it's not completely bug free.
As far as sequels;
- Everquest and Everquest 2 exist (Both are still active).
- FFXIV can be considered a sequel to FFXI (In the sense that any mainline FF game can be considered a sequel due to the naming scheme even if none of them are connected in any way, shape or form)
- Asheron's Call and Asheron's Call 2 existed (Both closed in 2017)
- City of Villains was originally a sequel to City of Heroes before both games were merged (And subsequently shut down in 2012)
- Legend of Mir 2 and Legend of Mir 3 existed (Only LoM2 is still active and even then only in Asia)
- Maplestory and Maplestory 2 are a thing (Maplestory 2 was shut down apart from in China/South Korea)
- Order and Chaos Online had a sequel of Order and Chaos 2: Redemption (Original one was shut down in 2023)
- Phantasy Star Online had the sequel of Phantasy Star Online 2 (Which in turn has the update/sequel of Phantasy Star Online 2 NEW GENESIS) with the latter being still active
- Priston Tale and Priston Tale 2 are a thing (The sequel shut down in 2013)
- Ragnarok Online and Ragnarok 2 Online are currently available in limited countries (NA and CIS only)
- Twelve Sky and Twelve Sky 2 as well (The former was shut down in 2010)
Sequels are uncommon for MMO's, but they do happen. Although with mixed results. Sometimes the original outlasts the sequel.0 -
AzuraFan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A popular AI suggests the following:
"The concept of re-releasing an MMO on a new game engine is not very common, but there are notable instances where it has occurred:
...
andFFXIV is the most notable for being remade in a new engine. Though that's because 1.0 version flopped hard.
Runescape also had some engine swaps. Firstly when it transitioned from being a browser based game to a stand alone title, then there was the creation of "New Runescape" that exists alongside the "Old School Runescape" which uses a different engine (Original browser based version used Runetek 2, OSRS uses Runetek 3 and NRS uses Runetek 7)
Anarchy Online has an optional new engine available, albeit it's not completely bug free.
As far as sequels;
(long list)
Thanks to both of you. I haven't heard of a lot of the games, but I'm mainly a single-player gamer.0
