1 day Temporary ban to queue for BG for ppl NOT participating in team effort please

AnduinTryggva

I frequently observe ppl just starting to stand around in spawn area after a SMALL lead of the enemy team.

As soon as their team is slightly behind they just stand there and wait for the match to end.

While I DO condone conceding by letting the enemy win after the other team has gained so much ground that it is impossible to catch up I think this quick abandoning of any effort should be punishible as it is damaging the entire team and specifically those who still make an effort.

I think as long as the enemy only leads by 20% of winning conidition (100 points score) such a behavior should be severely punished.

I also suggest to implement a team-poll whether to concede the match to the benefit of the opposing team in addition to that. This poll has to be unity-vote, not majority vote. If all team members agree to concede no time penalty is applied.

This is to incite people to put up an effort and not giving up after being behind a SMALL bit. The poll could avoid the "let the other team win" behavior that is absolutely understandable if the other team is so much ahead knowing how quickly imbalanced these matches can get.

johnJrant

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I frequently observe ppl just starting to stand around in spawn area after a SMALL lead of the enemy team.

As soon as their team is slightly behind they just stand there and wait for the match to end.

While I DO condone conceding by letting the enemy win after the other team has gained so much ground that it is impossible to catch up I think this quick abandoning of any effort should be punishible as it is damaging the entire team and specifically those who still make an effort.

I think as long as the enemy only leads by 20% of winning conidition (100 points score) such a behavior should be severely punished.

I also suggest to implement a team-poll whether to concede the match to the benefit of the opposing team in addition to that. This poll has to be unity-vote, not majority vote. If all team members agree to concede no time penalty is applied.

This is to incite people to put up an effort and not giving up after being behind a SMALL bit. The poll could avoid the "let the other team win" behavior that is absolutely understandable if the other team is so much ahead knowing how quickly imbalanced these matches can get.

You still haven't won? I'm sorry, of course, but all your suggestions are at least not realistic. And absolutely unnecessary. Well, what kind of vote on concessions? What is it? And it is necessary to block BG to someone as little as possible. These people will disappear from the queue if you don't understand.

As for spawning and not go in combat. This is of course very bad. But understand the players who play better. for example. If a team cannot kill an opponent's team under full control at one point and with a stac of attacking debuffs of +15% to total damage and +30% to critical damage, then it will no longer be able to win. In this case, the most dangerous player on your team becomes the main target for the enemy. Such a team usually cannot save a player from full focus either. Well, let's say you miss one charged attack, then the second, the third, and then what do you propose to do? Should one player always be in x4 focus while the other three run around and simulate damage? And then one by one they go to spawn.
In general, there is no need to block anyone at all. And do as much damage as possible.

AnduinTryggva

[snip]

Anyhow.

I know my statistics.

Fact is that out of 20 matches approximately only one is really fun because both teams are balanced and know what to do and when it really is a tight match. These are fun irrespective if I am on the winning or losing side.

What is low fun is to be part of a single sided match and the only consolation is when the lottery puts one to the winning team. What makes losing experience even worse is when one has rage quitters or spawn campers as soon as their team is a tiny bit behind.

About 95% matches are like this:



Please note that only 4min where played when this screenshot was taken.

Really does anybody consider such imbalances really fun in the proper sense? Some on the winning team might find it satisfactory - particularly those who don't like challenges. They ADORE to play against weaker teams and imbalanced matches provided they are on the op side.

And when 95% of the matches (and I play exclusively in solo 8vs8 so it is really a team thing) show such imbalances it clearly shows that the entire system of matchmaking and I would even say buildmaking is completely broken. I don't know one single other PvP game where builds play a considerable part in winning. Any ego shooter and I played them excessively in the past has a system where weapons and equipment that one unlocks may give you a small advantage but not one that is decisive. Even as a newby you quickly can gain ground in such matches.

But not in ESO. The terrible thing is that this is gate keeping newbies away. It is simply impossible to build up enough knowledge of how builds work, what builds work better, which are meta for PvP and how to play them effectively in a short term. Many will give up quickly. I think this is part of the problems of a dying PvP - it is just too newby unfriendly and the threshold too high.

PvP should be much more straight forward, not rely on proc sets, maybe only have a trade-off between ligh, medium and heavy to do and a few skills. Maybe even with only a few skills to chose from in order to make it more accessible.

[edited for baiting]

kurbbie_s

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

[snip]

Anyhow.

I know my statistics.

Fact is that out of 20 matches approximately only one is really fun because both teams are balanced and know what to do and when it really is a tight match. These are fun irrespective if I am on the winning or losing side.

What is low fun is to be part of a single sided match and the only consolation is when the lottery puts one to the winning team. What makes losing experience even worse is when one has rage quitters or spawn campers as soon as their team is a tiny bit behind.

About 95% matches are like this:



Please note that only 4min where played when this screenshot was taken.

Really does anybody consider such imbalances really fun in the proper sense? Some on the winning team might find it satisfactory - particularly those who don't like challenges. They ADORE to play against weaker teams and imbalanced matches provided they are on the op side.

And when 95% of the matches (and I play exclusively in solo 8vs8 so it is really a team thing) show such imbalances it clearly shows that the entire system of matchmaking and I would even say buildmaking is completely broken. I don't know one single other PvP game where builds play a considerable part in winning. Any ego shooter and I played them excessively in the past has a system where weapons and equipment that one unlocks may give you a small advantage but not one that is decisive. Even as a newby you quickly can gain ground in such matches.

But not in ESO. The terrible thing is that this is gate keeping newbies away. It is simply impossible to build up enough knowledge of how builds work, what builds work better, which are meta for PvP and how to play them effectively in a short term. Many will give up quickly. I think this is part of the problems of a dying PvP - it is just too newby unfriendly and the threshold too high.

PvP should be much more straight forward, not rely on proc sets, maybe only have a trade-off between ligh, medium and heavy to do and a few skills. Maybe even with only a few skills to chose from in order to make it more accessible.

[edited for baiting]

its an mmo. You dont understand that time=power. ESO isnt a skill based pvp game. Its an item based pvp game. 70% items 30% skill.

moo_2021

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

But not in ESO. The terrible thing is that this is gate keeping newbies away. It is simply impossible to build up enough knowledge of how builds work, what builds work better, which are meta for PvP and how to play them effectively in a short term. Many will give up quickly. I think this is part of the problems of a dying PvP - it is just too newby unfriendly and the threshold too high.

PvE is no less unfriendly. I spent one year doing 2k damage.

There are far less PvP guilds and guides but they are available, and there are no frequent updates.

MincMincMinc

kurbbie_s wrote: »

show previous quotes

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

[snip]

Anyhow.

I know my statistics.

Fact is that out of 20 matches approximately only one is really fun because both teams are balanced and know what to do and when it really is a tight match. These are fun irrespective if I am on the winning or losing side.

What is low fun is to be part of a single sided match and the only consolation is when the lottery puts one to the winning team. What makes losing experience even worse is when one has rage quitters or spawn campers as soon as their team is a tiny bit behind.

About 95% matches are like this:



Please note that only 4min where played when this screenshot was taken.

Really does anybody consider such imbalances really fun in the proper sense? Some on the winning team might find it satisfactory - particularly those who don't like challenges. They ADORE to play against weaker teams and imbalanced matches provided they are on the op side.

And when 95% of the matches (and I play exclusively in solo 8vs8 so it is really a team thing) show such imbalances it clearly shows that the entire system of matchmaking and I would even say buildmaking is completely broken. I don't know one single other PvP game where builds play a considerable part in winning. Any ego shooter and I played them excessively in the past has a system where weapons and equipment that one unlocks may give you a small advantage but not one that is decisive. Even as a newby you quickly can gain ground in such matches.

But not in ESO. The terrible thing is that this is gate keeping newbies away. It is simply impossible to build up enough knowledge of how builds work, what builds work better, which are meta for PvP and how to play them effectively in a short term. Many will give up quickly. I think this is part of the problems of a dying PvP - it is just too newby unfriendly and the threshold too high.

PvP should be much more straight forward, not rely on proc sets, maybe only have a trade-off between ligh, medium and heavy to do and a few skills. Maybe even with only a few skills to chose from in order to make it more accessible.

[edited for baiting]

its an mmo. You dont understand that time=power. ESO isnt a skill based pvp game. Its an item based pvp game. 70% items 30% skill.

IDK about that, I leveled one of my friends from 0-cp160 in a day and had him playing bgs with a meta 1vX level build. On his own he made 2m gold in a week flipping items.

Most people are just too lazy. BGs would be so much more fun for pve players if they actually tried to set up a pvp build to swap to. I on the other hand would probably have more fun if I setup a pve character instead of trying to use 5 year old pvp builds to do pledges on.

---

As far as the team imbalance it is mainly due to mmr not working and how zos structured bgs in general. Things like the spawn zones are high up and require you to drop down into an 8 man to get out of spawn. Why cant spawn be ground level with an invisible wall for the enemy team? Or a turret system like DOTA/LoL

Veinblood1965

From a new BG person's perspective, BG's are just not fun period. I've played Cryodill and IC for many years and only within the last month started running BG's (for the mount).

The OP is correct, I frequently see people just standing around if the other team gets a slight lead, far LESS people standing around when it is evenly matched or we are in the lead. Add a POLL please!

Seriously after a few minutes into it you know whether you're team is going to win or not, why WAIT 12 minutes for the stupid thing to end? I think ZoS should put more thought into the structure of these when they revamped them recently. I'd be more inclined to play more often if they weren't such a time sink. Especially as we often have to wait 10 minutes to get into a BG in the first place.

Here's my experience on Tuesday. I got the "win one match" daily quest. After FIVE lost matches and an hour or so later i gave up, NOT because I wasn't "good" but due to just bad team makeup I guess. I'm new so no idea what causes one random team to be better than another.

Necrotech_Master

those situations ive seen happen in chaosball matches because so many people just ignore the freaking balls

they arent playing to win they are just in the match to pvp

for chaosball specifically its sometimes lopsided matches and sometimes ive seen my team lose because nobody will pick it up

there are times i had a chaosball and died due to the ramping chaosball dmg and during my death screen before it respawns me i see half of the team just run past the ball until the ball itself respawns back at its fixed spawn location

Techwolf_Lupindo

They are protesting against being forced into a "deathmatch" que. Once they realized they are playing against deathmatch players, due to no deathmatch only que, they stop playing that game.

Joy_Division

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Here's my experience on Tuesday. I got the "win one match" daily quest. After FIVE lost matches and an hour or so later i gave up, NOT because I wasn't "good" but due to just bad team makeup I guess. I'm new so no idea what causes one random team to be better than another.

It's just bad luck. Or more accurately, a combination of ZOS not knowing how to make an MMR system that defines a good player and a shallow pool of players to draw upon.

Players are saying it only take a few minutes until they know if they're going to win or lose. My response is, what's taking you so long? After the first initial clash, my guess is players know if they drew the shortest straw and 9 times out of 10 that impression is going to be correct.

Because ESO so heavily favors healing/defense, it's actually very unfriendly to new / inexperienced players. That may seem counter-intuitive (certainly ZOS thinks so), but new players generally perform better in high offensive settings. The reason is that when things so heavily favor defense, if a new players gets lucky or a good player makes a mistake, the better player will not die, be able to recover, and eventually the new player's luck will run out and they'll be the ones that die. In playing a system where offense is so crazy high, the new player's luck will kill a better player. Think of a first person shooter game with an arena with only single shot pistols or one-shot one kill rocket launchers. The noobs are going to fare better with the rocket launchers.

Because ESO is so heavily skewed to defense/healing/survivability, the team with less skill basically has zero shot and any talent mismatches soon devolve into spawn camping routs.

moo_2021

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

those situations ive seen happen in chaosball matches because so many people just ignore the freaking balls

I started ignoring the ball because picking it up turned me into werewolf or vampire lord, then I died not knowing what to do with them, or even how to heal myself.

Having a build changed in the middle of game is just !?@#$^^&!!


people didn't ignore the ball previously. A few like cloaking NBs were, but they're uncommon.

the1andonlyskwex

moo_2021 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

those situations ive seen happen in chaosball matches because so many people just ignore the freaking balls

I started ignoring the ball because picking it up turned me into werewolf or vampire lord, then I died not knowing what to do with them, or even how to heal myself.

Having a build changed in the middle of game is just !?@#$^^&!!


people didn't ignore the ball previously. A few like cloaking NBs were, but they're uncommon.

The transformations desperately need something built-in to educate people on how to play them. It's no fun when you pick up a chaosball and suddenly have no idea what your abilities do, and also no time to read tooltips and figure it out.

pecheckler

I reserve the right to sit in a chair in spawn until the match is over when the matchmaking system puts together the most obnoxiously unbalanced team compositions which will ALWAYS result in a loss.

karthrag_inak

Khajiit has a novel idea. Instead of trying to punish people because of the 2-team-turd fest that BGs have turned into, how about, perhaps, the.devs should

Bring
Back
3-Team, yes?

Amottica

moo_2021 wrote: »

show previous quotes

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

But not in ESO. The terrible thing is that this is gate keeping newbies away. It is simply impossible to build up enough knowledge of how builds work, what builds work better, which are meta for PvP and how to play them effectively in a short term. Many will give up quickly. I think this is part of the problems of a dying PvP - it is just too newby unfriendly and the threshold too high.

PvE is no less unfriendly. I spent one year doing 2k damage.

There are far less PvP guilds and guides but they are available, and there are no frequent updates.

moo_2021 wrote: »

show previous quotes

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

But not in ESO. The terrible thing is that this is gate keeping newbies away. It is simply impossible to build up enough knowledge of how builds work, what builds work better, which are meta for PvP and how to play them effectively in a short term. Many will give up quickly. I think this is part of the problems of a dying PvP - it is just too newby unfriendly and the threshold too high.

PvE is no less unfriendly. I spent one year doing 2k damage.

There are far less PvP guilds and guides but they are available, and there are no frequent updates.

There are a lot of guilds that are great for helping new players get their bearing and get into the game much faster. It is excellent for players who are not finding the good information to help them get started.

As for the topic of this thread, there is an easy fix for those staying in the spawn area. A timer that puts them on the battlefield once it expires. It is simple.

Veinblood1965

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

those situations ive seen happen in chaosball matches because so many people just ignore the freaking balls

they arent playing to win they are just in the match to pvp

for chaosball specifically its sometimes lopsided matches and sometimes ive seen my team lose because nobody will pick it up

there are times i had a chaosball and died due to the ramping chaosball dmg and during my death screen before it respawns me i see half of the team just run past the ball until the ball itself respawns back at its fixed spawn location

This and also the same in capture the relic. I captured it last night early on and was getting beatin on by the opposite team and almost made it back, where were my team mates? Not near me I can assure you of that. Not a one. I don't think that is ZoS's fault, it's a player issue. it happens constantly. Luckily enough i can usually make it back on my own but when someone else has the relic I go immediately to them to escort them and provide cover. I think there are just not enough seasoned players left in the game for anything really. I was in a major trading guild on PS5 and recently they disbanded due to "A drastic decline in player population". Add to that the "actual count of sales are way down compared to this time last year. The game is dying that's a given. Sadly I enjoy the game but the continual combat changes, set changes, vendor changes, etc are making it un-fun.

Veinblood1965

moo_2021 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

those situations ive seen happen in chaosball matches because so many people just ignore the freaking balls

I started ignoring the ball because picking it up turned me into werewolf or vampire lord, then I died not knowing what to do with them, or even how to heal myself.

Having a build changed in the middle of game is just !?@#$^^&!!


people didn't ignore the ball previously. A few like cloaking NBs were, but they're uncommon.

I agree, I hate that as I have no idea what each skill does, there's no explanation of them. I suppose I could google them but the game itself should allow you to see. I die quickly when I transform versus when I play my own setup.

Moonspawn

Zenimax probably thought that getting rid of the third team would solve this particular problem. It didn't. But this would: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/670165/battlegrounds-cycle-of-self-destruction/p1

DaniimalsSF

Some people think fighting other players is fun. Some people think carrying objects across the map or running from point to point is fun. Why ZOS forces these two groups together is unknown. Perhaps separate queues for Deathmatch and Objectives? Just an idea…

Tcholl

People stand around or actually quit mid fight because the system is very poor and no one likes to be farmed for 10 minutes.

Either the match making is the worst in the history of games or they are still mixing group and solo queues. (I believe to be the second).

They have changed a lot of stuff in BG, however the main issues are still there. You may get a couple good matches, but eventually it will fall in the category of players farming the other team in the spawn area.

sans-culottes

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I frequently observe ppl just starting to stand around in spawn area after a SMALL lead of the enemy team.

As soon as their team is slightly behind they just stand there and wait for the match to end.

While I DO condone conceding by letting the enemy win after the other team has gained so much ground that it is impossible to catch up I think this quick abandoning of any effort should be punishible as it is damaging the entire team and specifically those who still make an effort.

I think as long as the enemy only leads by 20% of winning conidition (100 points score) such a behavior should be severely punished.

I also suggest to implement a team-poll whether to concede the match to the benefit of the opposing team in addition to that. This poll has to be unity-vote, not majority vote. If all team members agree to concede no time penalty is applied.

This is to incite people to put up an effort and not giving up after being behind a SMALL bit. The poll could avoid the "let the other team win" behavior that is absolutely understandable if the other team is so much ahead knowing how quickly imbalanced these matches can get.

Hard pass.

kregora

moo_2021 wrote: »

I started ignoring the ball because picking it up turned me into werewolf or vampire lord, then I died not knowing what to do with them, or even how to heal myself.

Having a build changed in the middle of game is just !?@#$^^&!!


people didn't ignore the ball previously. A few like cloaking NBs were, but they're uncommon.

I do understand your issue, because I had the same.

I will never understand why Chaos Ball would need 3 objectives, the mode would be dynamic enough with only one ball.

While Capture the Relic only has one per side, which makes a most boring mode. Usually your game is lost if the enemy captured your Relic once.
It would make more sense to have multiple relics per side, because teams would need to split their attention to defend. Kinda in what was the case with the previous three team matches.

mook-eb16_ESO

I'd like to see a system that try's to dynamically balance the losing teams power/skill. If you are loosing you could be given sigils like in archive to try and address the balance
issue and give the winning team a little more challenge. Maybe this would help to keep players engaged?

darvaria

No way to enforce such. The problem is a lot of players just want PVP i.e. Death Match". No idea why ZOS won't just give them the option.

Jierdanit

Tcholl wrote: »

People stand around or actually quit mid fight because the system is very poor and no one likes to be farmed for 10 minutes.

Either the match making is the worst in the history of games or they are still mixing group and solo queues. (I believe to be the second).

They have changed a lot of stuff in BG, however the main issues are still there. You may get a couple good matches, but eventually it will fall in the category of players farming the other team in the spawn area.

I have done a lot of both solo and group BGs now and before the change to BGs.

I can tell you that solo and group queue are not mixed now and were not mixed before the change either. It can maybe happen with some super rare bug, idk its ESO after all, but it is absolutely not something that happens normally.

The match making is just that bad.

And the difference in power between players is that huge.

Oblivion_Protocol

kregora wrote: »

I will never understand why Chaos Ball would need 3 objectives, the mode would be dynamic enough with only one ball.

One ball, one tanky player holding it to soak up points, and five to seven other players healing and buffing that ball-holder to the point of immortality?

No thanks.

Tcholl

Jierdanit wrote: »

show previous quotes

Tcholl wrote: »

People stand around or actually quit mid fight because the system is very poor and no one likes to be farmed for 10 minutes.

Either the match making is the worst in the history of games or they are still mixing group and solo queues. (I believe to be the second).

They have changed a lot of stuff in BG, however the main issues are still there. You may get a couple good matches, but eventually it will fall in the category of players farming the other team in the spawn area.

I have done a lot of both solo and group BGs now and before the change to BGs.

I can tell you that solo and group queue are not mixed now and were not mixed before the change either. It can maybe happen with some super rare bug, idk its ESO after all, but it is absolutely not something that happens normally.

The match making is just that bad.

And the difference in power between players is that huge.

Tnx for the clarification!

moo_2021

I suggest knocking out any player in spawn after 5 seconds. No more hiding!