The ESO Craft Bag: A Convenience or a Gatekeeper to Enjoyable Gameplay?

Playnice · December 22

As the title suggests, what do you think?

Personofsecrets · December 22

Pay to win gatekeeper to enjoyable gameplay.

Inventory management doesn't get talked about alot, but even with the improvements brought to us via the transmute station, it's still easily the worst part of the game.

ESO is a big game now, so we are bound to collect many things. That said, a number of content pieces started having fragments that would be put together to form a piece. That intentional design along with a few other things make me feel as though inventory was designed to be a pain point for the purpose of driving sales (such as the inventory increasing pets) or subscriptions for the crafting bag.

The crafting bag is probably the most toxic thing that I've encountered in any game. And I remember when Bioware represented their ability of players to buy ammo while in a tough in-game spot as cool and revolutionary. At least game like Hero Wars or World of Tanks represent themselves in a more honest way.

Danikat · December 22

I rarely have ESO+ and I'm fine playing without it. I suspect it helps that I only have 1 crafter so I don't need all the materials to be available to all my characters, but I think what makes a bigger difference is not trying to hold loads of other stuff and having a system for it. When there's an ESO+ trial I genuinely have about 30-40 items in my bank, mostly potions and food.

My crafter holds blacksmithing, clothier and woodworker materials, the bank holds alchemy, enchanting and provisioning and trait and style materials go in a chest in my house. Oh, I obviously don't have all the style materials at all times either. The one chest is usually enough for the ones I pick up between free trials, and if not they overflow into my "other stuff" chest which holds all kinds of odd bits.

The_Meathead · December 22

Personofsecrets wrote: »

The crafting bag is probably the most toxic thing that I've encountered in any game.

It's effective, but I wouldn't label it as "toxic." I feel like that's a vast overstatement.

The Crafting Bag is arguably the single biggest perk of a continued subscription, certainly, but it's not like you can't play the game without it if you're truly intent on not paying a penny - as in none, as in totally free and without cost.

If anything, I'd say the constraints placed upon a non-paying player are surprisingly minimal and if the very overt Crafting Bag is the bait used to lure us to pay, that's not bad at all.

AcadianPaladin · December 22

Easy call for me. I subscribe to ESO+ since I play a lot and 99% of my game time is in ESO. So I definitely get my money's worth for the sub. If I wanted to play several such games, it would not be such a simple call.

My thinking is jump into the game for free and see if you like it. If so, then do ESO+ and enjoy the benefits. Game's gotta make money somehow and I find ESO+ a decent value.

The_Meathead · December 22

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Easy call for me. I subscribe to ESO+ since I play a lot and 99% of my game time is in ESO. So I definitely get my money's worth for the sub. If I wanted to play several such games, it would not be such a simple call.

My thinking is jump into the game for free and see if you like it. If so, then do ESO+ and enjoy the benefits. Game's gotta make money somehow and I find ESO+ a decent value.

Agreed on all counts.

I only play ESO these days, and no other games at all. So, a single cost of <$15 a month is a tremendously minimal expense for all I get out of it.

Someone who maintains a half-dozen other subscriptions might feel differently, but the playtime I get is easily spent in one game.

Aurielle · December 22

I haven’t played the game in a while due to poor performance, but I have to say, I didn’t really consider the crafting bag a “must have” (at least on PC) when I was still playing. I used an inventory management add-on that made life a whole lot easier — it auto-deposited certain crafting materials I specified and allowed me to withdraw specific items automatically based on what character I was playing. I availed of free ESO+ trials to do my surveys and would occasionally buy a month of ESO+ here and there if my supply of mats was running low and I needed to use up some more surveys outside of the free trial windows.

When you don’t have ESO+, one thing you get pretty good at doing is becoming WAY more selective about which crafting items you hoard. There’s really no need to keep storing trait stones when you have more than a stack or two of each. Same thing with style stones. For crafting writs, I just used one of the base racial styles (Moonstone) and sold the rest to vendors, unless they were actually valuable enough to sell on traders. I literally never found myself running out of bag space, and still had tons of space in my housing coffers and my bank.

Taril · December 22

The_Meathead wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

The crafting bag is probably the most toxic thing that I've encountered in any game.

It's effective, but I wouldn't label it as "toxic." I feel like that's a vast overstatement.

It is toxic though. It's another form of gatekeeping convenience behind a paywall. Whereby the inconvenience is artificially designed specifically to sell the solution.

It may not be so bad as to make the game "Unplayable" without it. But the simple fact of the matter is that it's creating a problem to sell you the solution, which is toxic design.

As far as things go for me... I don't own a bunch of DLC, so I get ESO+ to gain access to these DLC and then get the Craft Bag and Larger Bank as bonuses.

I'd imagine the same would be true for many newer players, getting all DLC (Besides Gold Road for the time being) for a few dollars per month is more palateble than buying some $100+ worth of DLC content.

The convenience aspects of ESO+ seem more targeted towards veteran players to give them more reason to pay for the subscription despite having all DLC (Of course, an alternative would be to provide BONUSES to ESO+ rather than hamstringing non-subscribers. Like having better ESO+ deals, providing characters on an account an extra Outfit/Armoury slot, an additional character slot etc)

Playnice · December 22

It’s interesting that opinions on this topic seem to be quite divided. Personally, I found the craft bag to be valuable back when ESO was my main game and I was fully immersed in the gameplay experience. However, as a veteran who has completed most of the content and now plays more casually, that value has diminished for me. Regardless of how one feels about the marketing strategy behind the craft bag, I can’t help but feel it acts as a gatekeeper to enjoyable gameplay for those of us who no longer engage with the game as intensely as we once did.

fizzylu · December 22

I don't mind paying a sub to support a MMO I like and am actively playing. The subscription cost for this game has never bothered me and is one of the things I think is actually priced reasonably for what you get out of it -- the DLC access and crowns alone make it worth it. Even if they made the craft bag not tied to it and accessible to everyone at all times I'd feel that way, so yeah.... I definitely think it's just restricted to it in order to "motivate" more players to pay for the subscription (same with the furniture slot increase).

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Game's gotta make money somehow and I find ESO+ a decent value.

And honestly, while I do agree with the last part of this.... I'm also tired of hearing the "they have to make money somehow" comment said about a game as heavily monetized as this one.

Arunei · December 22

They really do need a limited version of the craft bag as a base game thing, and I say this as a subscriber. Whenever my sub lapses I stop doing about 90% of my normal activities because they put crafting mats into my inventories, as my bank is full when my sub lapses.

There all sorts of things I can't just get rid of, like a bunch of furniture, Chapter motifs and other things to sell, Training gear of varying levels and gear in general for when certain character hit max level, Companion items I'm holding onto, various Collectible fragments like Gladiator Proofs, neat things I'm keeping for posterity like a Lesser Empty Soul Gem, and so on. So when my sub lapses my double bank space is yoinked and my bank winds up being full, and my character inventories fill up quickly with crafting mats if I keep doing crafting dailies, deconning gear gotten from leveling and general exploration, or mat farming in general.

There are hundreds more items in this game now than there were when it launched, and yet the only bank space increase we've gotten has been in the form of a few pets that give you five extra slots each. They really need to stop selling the solution to the inventory management minigame and give some sort of free way to help manage it at least a little.

Something that would really help imo is either a "furniture" bag, where all furniture gets stored just like with mats, or the ability to decon furniture like you can gear.

Desiato · December 22

Both. It's obvious their monetization strategy involves inventory management. Especially during gift box events.

I'm OK with that. I don't mind how they monetize the game as there isn't any annoying p2w.

AzuraFan · December 22

There has to be a compelling reason to subscribe to ESO+. Otherwise nobody would do it. It's not toxic to set limits on non-sub accounts. It's business.

I've tried playing without a sub. Is it possible? Sure. But it's so much more convenient to harvest all resources without having to spend one second thinking about it.

ETA: I would be fine with a limited version of the craft bag for non-subs. In addition, ZOS needs to take another look at ESO+ in light of the upcoming changes to the game, and that would include taking another look at what non-sub accounts get in terms of inventory.

Taril · December 22

AzuraFan wrote: »

It's not toxic to set limits on non-sub accounts. It's business.

Implying that business can't be toxic...

There are myriads of business practices that are toxic.

Things like P2W, "Suprise Mechanics", FOMO and yes, intentionally making problems specifically so you can sell the solution.

Lots of things are consumer unfriendly and thus, toxic. But they're business strategies because it makes businesses thrive, because businesses don't care about the consumer they only care that their wallets get emptied.

It's also possible for a business to thrive while being consumer friendly. By making products and providing services that people end up WANTING to pay for, because they're worth the price.

It's just easier to make worse products and use anti-consumer practices to milk out as much money as possible from the saps who actually do have an interest in what you provide... (Well, until people no longer find your product interesting enough to be worth it. As Ubisoft is currently finding out)

colossalvoids · December 22

Create a problem and sell the solution.

Inventory management would be far better if no bag existed at all because that would be a mini game for everyone and excess would end up on a market or depleted by crafting.

It still a bummer for me in a sense as it's not a f2p game for something like that to even exist here, but here we are.

Finedaible · December 22

It is things like ESO+ which make me believe Zenimax should have stuck to the subscription model because it is not worth playing without. Even with + I'd say it's not worth playing without inventory management addons, because if you ever want to have multiple sets or traits for different occasions on several characters it is a massive headache. The housing community have been begging for a craft bag for furnishings and an increase in house limits.

Every update has new inventory fodder, some Companion passives generating vendor trash, more ESO+ only deals, they pushed DLC-priced Assistants into the cash shop, and there are like 3 inventory upgrades in the store (pets). Pirharri the Smuggler should have set the precedent for obtainable assistants in my opinion. Ironically they might have less product to push out in 2025, so I'm sort of dreading what new monetization tactics they will come up with next.

AzuraFan · December 22

Taril wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

It's not toxic to set limits on non-sub accounts. It's business.

Implying that business can't be toxic...

Well, no, in this case I just meant it's a business decision. And I don't think it's a toxic one. It's common for businesses to limit what free accounts can do. In fact it's common to have different types of accounts, with different offerings. The more premium the sub, the more you get.

I've seen many players post that they can play perfectly fine without the craft bag, so is ZOS creating a problem and then offering a paid solution? No. Only some players have a problem without the craft bag. I found it inconvenient to play without it, but I'll admit that I find it hard not to loot everything, including resources, and I keep too much stuff in the bank that I could get rid of or use (like put furnishings into one of the many houses I have). That's on me, not the game.

Anyway, whether someone finds it a toxic practice or not, the reality is that if you find inventory management a problem without a sub, then either subscribe or deal with it.

Eliahnus · December 22

There we go again… so tiring to always have the same discussion.

TaSheen · December 22

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Easy call for me. I subscribe to ESO+ since I play a lot and 99% of my game time is in ESO. So I definitely get my money's worth for the sub. If I wanted to play several such games, it would not be such a simple call.

My thinking is jump into the game for free and see if you like it. If so, then do ESO+ and enjoy the benefits. Game's gotta make money somehow and I find ESO+ a decent value.

This.

coop500 · December 22

IMO a gatekeep, but not the worst. ZOS is a business, so it's not a surprise they'll have a few player unfriendly things to encourage spending money. It's not the worst they could do, considering the alternatives.

Taril · December 22

AzuraFan wrote: »

Well, no, in this case I just meant it's a business decision. And I don't think it's a toxic one.

Well, objectively, it's an anti-consumer decision. Thus, toxic.

AzuraFan wrote: »

It's common for businesses to limit what free accounts can do. In fact it's common to have different types of accounts, with different offerings. The more premium the sub, the more you get.

Again, just because things are common doesn't mean that it's not toxic. Since again, businesses are rife with toxic, anti-consumer practices.

In general, much of the limitation on free accounts are things like "You can't do this content for free", meaning that paid content remains paid content.

Basic functions don't often get gated by paywalls (Though, it does happen).

AzuraFan wrote: »

I've seen many players post that they can play perfectly fine without the craft bag, so is ZOS creating a problem and then offering a paid solution? No.

Yes?

Just because it's not a massive problem that makes the game unplayable, doesn't mean they aren't creating a problem to sell the solution.

Just like how Ubisoft really likes to put lots of tedious grind into their game because... Oh look you can buy a pack that skips that grind! Nothing stops you from playing the game and grinding out all of their nonsense. But the fact remains that they intentionally made these things grindy so that they can sell the solution.

In this case, ZOS is artificially making inventory management worse... So they can sell ESO+ with its Craft Bag and Bank Limit Increase.

The problem being created, is inventory management. The solution being sold, is a separate infinitely large craft bag shared among all characters which auto-sorts relevant items into it and straight up doubled bank space.

They could alleviate a lot of inventory management issues for all players by making these things baseline. But they choose not to, so as to earn money.

Soarora · December 22

Convivence, but it depends on how you go about it. Someone I know played 1 character and filled the rest of the slots with storage characters on console. I play PC and have 2 storage characters and use an addon to auto-bank and auto-withdraw. If you have a personal guild bank it'd probably be even easier.

I also had eso+ for several years, so I have material build up in my craft bag and craft from the bag in most cases.

TaSheen · December 22

I'm perfectly fine with subbing no matter what - because I have enjoyed the game thoroughly for 7 years. Nothing touted as "included in ESO+" made me decide to sub - I have ALWAYS subbed to live service games.

If those who don't want to sub can't have the craft bag, double inventory, etc - well, that's how this game is structured. Pretty much guarantee it's not going to change....

liliub17_ESO · December 22

I find it unnecessarily limiting and, in reality, a poor business model.

Granted, I maintain two ESO+ accounts (one is my daughter's but she doesn't play right now). While I *could* furnish a house with half the furnishings available to me, it would be less than optimal - and I likely wouldn't bother much, especially on larger properties. Since I craft many of the furnishings, this would also limit what I could do, house-wise, which would again cause me to probably not bother.

So yeah.

AzuraFan · December 23

Taril wrote: »

Well, objectively, it's an anti-consumer decision. Thus, toxic.

It's your opinion, not an objective fact.

One of the things businesses charge for is convenience, which is what the craft bag is all about. Do I think ZOS creates the inconvenience? Sure. Do I care? Nope. Do I think it's toxic? Nope. Do I want to spend any more time going around in circles with you about it? Nope. We both have our opinions and they aren't going to change.

I see this type of discussion about the craft bag come up a lot, and to me it basically boils down to people not wanting to pay for a subscription, but wanting the benefits. Well, if you don't want to pay, you don't get the craft bag. It's that simple. ZOS isn't the gatekeeper. ESO+ isn't the gatekeeper. The craft bag isn't the gatekeeper. You're the gatekeeper. Nobody's stopping you from subscribing except you. If inventory management is sucking away your enjoyment of the game, all you have to do is subscribe. It'll be a whole lot more effective than complaining about it here. You'll get an instant solution to your problem. (and to be clear, this whole paragraph is about the general "you" and not directed at the quoted poster.)

dookieboi · December 23

I refuse to play this game without the crafting bag, it definitely feels like it’s put in place to drive subscriptions. The crafting bag and then just having access to all of the DLCs makes the sub worth it to me when I’m playing the game.

Savina · December 23

"The ESO Craft Bag: A Convenience or a Gatekeeper to Enjoyable Gameplay?"

It is a convenience that comes with a ESO+ subscription. If you want it subscribe. If you do not want to subscribe or can't afford to subscribe then learn effective ways to manage your inventory. Or go find a game that gives you what you think you are entitled to at the price you are willing to pay. It really is that simple.

Why start a thread as if you have an actual interest in the question, when in reality your mind is already made up and you already know your answer is the only right one? Entitlement is a ugly thing.

BlueRaven · December 23

Craft bag did not ship with the game.

Before ESO+ the game was designed for you to keep crafting mats in your bank. Just as it is now, with non eso+ accounts. So you are just playing this now as it was originally designed. (We also could not just summon a banker either.)

Since its inception eso+ has lost a lot of its value. The only real reason to keep it is the craft bag.

JemadarofCaerSalis · December 23

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Easy call for me. I subscribe to ESO+ since I play a lot and 99% of my game time is in ESO. So I definitely get my money's worth for the sub. If I wanted to play several such games, it would not be such a simple call.

My thinking is jump into the game for free and see if you like it. If so, then do ESO+ and enjoy the benefits. Game's gotta make money somehow and I find ESO+ a decent value.

That is exactly what I did.

I got ESO free through Epic, and thought 'hmm, I like the Elder Scrolls, but not sure about a multiplayer game, since I don't like constant PvP' but thought I would give it a try.

I tried it and liked it, so subscribed to ESO+.

I am dreading when I have to let eso+ go, because it is convenient.

Taril · December 23

AzuraFan wrote: »

It's your opinion, not an objective fact.

It's is objectively, anti-consumer.

It is not an opinion, it is an objective statement. They have the means to provide the solution, but choose only to do so upon payment.

They intentionally created this scenario where there is an inconvenience, purely to sell the solution. It's not like they are literally incapable of providing the solution, they just choose not to.

AzuraFan wrote: »

Do I think ZOS creates the inconvenience? Sure. Do I care? Nope. Do I think it's toxic? Nope.

Which is your opinion on the matter.

The objective fact is, that it is anti-consumer.

Is it being anti-consumer a big deal? Not significantly (Slippery slope aside, but that particular thing has long since past in the industry as a whole in large part thanks to "It's not that big of a deal" attitudes that let businesses continue pushing the envelope)

The basic facet is that, they created this problem with the explicit reasoning to sell the solution. Which is toxic, since it's not about providing a better service or product for the money, but making the product or serivce worse for those that don't pay (With the intent of making it bad enough to entice people into paying)

But this isn't new, nor is it the only toxic business practice employed in ESO (Crown Crates and FOMO are very prominent)

AzuraFan wrote: »

Do I want to spend any more time going around in circles with you about it? Nope.

And yet, here you are, responding to me again...

You know there's a wonderful thing that is possible when you don't want to discuss things called... Not discussing them.

AzuraFan wrote: »

I see this type of discussion about the craft bag come up a lot, and to me it basically boils down to people not wanting to pay for a subscription, but wanting the benefits.

Personally, to me, it mostly comes down to what is being done to push the subscription. Like I've mentioned in my first post, I do actually pay for ESO+ and I do so primarily to access the DLCs. Since that is just convenient to pay a small amount and get all the DLC content instead of having to purchase a much higher upfront cost.

I generally don't mind these sorts of optional premium things, where it will be stuff like paid content or getting bonus premium items (Like character slots. Or if ESO+ had things like Outfit Slots and Armoury Slots). Since this is simply providing a bonus for the cost, or providing an alternate way of paying for paid content.

Overall, I'm not a fan of "Convenience" things whereby something is made artificially worse, so you're incentivised to buy the convenience items. (This is true not only for ESO+ having the craft bag/bank space but also if they sold these features as stand alone options too).

At the end of the day, it doesn't affect me too much, since I get ESO+ primarily for other reasons and it's never going to change because... Why would any business actively give up a method of milking consumers for anything they can? (I mean, we can still BUY WW/Vamp bites in the store because they made the NPC spawns annoying so they can do that and seemingly make money from those who don't wish to interact with other players to get bites, however few of these sales they might actually get)

SaffronCitrusflower · December 23

ESO is on sale right now for $5 for base game.

Three months of ESO+ is $45 US. You can spend that same $45 on 9 more accounts and set up a personal guild bank. Or, you can get 9 friends to join you in the effort and pay nothing.

ESO+ is not needed even without a personal guild bank, but with one, it's very not needed.