How do I report a forum mod?

Muizer

Orbital78 wrote: »

joking around on here is trolling.

SeaGtGruff

I don't think anyone needs to be afraid to post here, as long as they use self-moderation.

ArchangelIsraphel

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I don't think anyone needs to be afraid to post here, as long as they use self-moderation.

Except it seems that even when one does use self-moderation, phrasing things as politely as possible, avoiding any use of cursing or language that could be seen as bashing, some posts still end up crossing a line.

As others before me have said here, I would also like better guidance in regards to how exactly we are to interpret certain rules. Something that has been simplified, so that we are not left to guess. Some of us who have no desire to break them, seem to stumble into doing so anyway, and would like to avoid any future infractions by having the rules clarified.

When people say "I am afraid to post" that is not a good sign for community building- we genuinely want to be a part of the community here, we would like to work with the Community Managers in an open dialogue to achieve better understanding.

I hope that they will understand that these requests are done in good faith- help us help you. We can make your job easier if we have a clearer guide.

Vonnegut2506

I told a player a fact that their definition of something doesn't really matter as ZOS makes the rules, and I was moderated for "baiting", so ya, the moderation is a bit overboard at times.

Desiato

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I don't think anyone needs to be afraid to post here, as long as they use self-moderation.

Unfortunately, we're not able to go into specifics. However, generally speaking, I would expect that in a system in which a TOS created by lawyers to cover all bases is applied arbitrarily, not all users would notice.

I grew up in a society in which speaking truth to power, satire and even biting criticism were part of daily discourse in reputable newspapers and talk shows on tv. Those things were fine here for a few years, and then something changed.

Please don't ban me for posting this.

JavaRen

I have been "actioned" on this forum a few times, in each case I was able to get an explanation after a few back and forth messages. I still disagree with why, but at least I told what rule I violated. The problem is the rules are necessarily vague so that bozos don't pull letter of the law BS to skirt them, but that leaves honest users (the majority of us) needing to guess how some rules might apply. I am starting to have a better instinct for this, but struggle to explain how.

JavaRen

Hoping my previous message is vague enough in discussing moderation to be allowed.

CatoUnchained

Tandor wrote: »

It's generally better to learn from the experience rather than challenging it.

What we learn from the experience isn't the take home lesson ZOS would want us to be having.

The problem isn't the ToS is too stringent. The problem is that far too often the definitions of baiting, trolling, bashing etc. are being expanded WAY beyond the definitions outlined in the ToS to such an extreme as to render the terms meaningless.

CatoUnchained

MJallday wrote: »

I’m at the stage where I fear for posting anything on these forums for fear of over moderation

Same here.

TheMajority

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

It's generally better to learn from the experience rather than challenging it.

What we learn from the experience isn't the take home lesson ZOS would want us to be having.

The problem isn't the ToS is too stringent. The problem is that far too often the definitions of baiting, trolling, bashing etc. are being expanded WAY beyond the definitions outlined in the ToS to such an extreme as to render the terms meaningless.

I feel scared to say so, but a point I would like to kindly make would be it do seem to change day to day, the meaning of these things. The change depends on who is on watch. If a guide was made to these important things, for all mods to follow and be consistent with it, then users would feel a better sense of certainty. If we get to see the guide to, then we could act compliantly.

Important to say also, that we are not judging any mod or CM as a person. It is just confusing to all member of a forum when across all mods, a meaning does not seem the same. Help us, please?

Syldras

Desiato wrote: »

I grew up in a society in which speaking truth to power, satire and even biting criticism were part of daily discourse in reputable newspapers and talk shows on tv.

I think our different backgrounds, as users of an international forum with people from all over the world, are a factor that might cause confusion sometimes. Not only because of the language difficulties some non-native English speakers have, which can lead to wording things wrong (or make them sound a lot harsher than intended - this even happens to me although I think I speak English quite well; but I am not a native English speaker, so mistakes do happen). But also because we all have different ideas about what's appropriate or not. Yes, insults are forbidden. I think we all know and accept that. But what counts as an insult? It is possible that someone says something that's a very mild tease at most in their culture, with a friendly and joking connotation, which feels insulting to someone who grew up in a different one. And there are many of such points: Where does the topic of politics starts? Does mentioning a historical event count as such? Is it appropriate to state a fact even if it's something negative? Which topics are considered distasteful? It's not always easy to navigate, even for people who are really trying to get everything right because they enjoy being part of this forum and sincerely want to contribute to a game they love.

TheMajority

A example of cultural background creating difficulties, which I did learn from this very forum,

When I first came to this forum, I did participate in a discussion. There in that discussion, I said I thought Bastian was a very rude person. I did get a huge shock, with users who said he can't possibly be rude, he's a nice person. This seem to go far to where they seem to get the thought that I was trying to cause trouble, and be rude myself. Or that I was upsetting people for the amusement because my idea of him was different.

This was not the intent, just a honest opinion I had. In Japan, which is my home even if I do live in the US now, many of his outwardness of dissatisfaction with a person would be so rude. It is more subtle and kindly in my culture and indirect. Well, I can be direct myself at times. But the Chinese side of my family will be this way so I learned it there.

I learned that day that I sounded rude. So ever since, I have in my signature, a note to say English is not my native language, and that I want to understand other opinions from myself. Then, I try to adjust my tone in what I write.

But, you see how it can be hairy for a non English speaker, how my intent did not go across right, it could be reported under the wrong impression, and you see how that goes? In good fortune, nothing happened to me. But I'm careful.

vsrs_au

CatoUnchained wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

I’m at the stage where I fear for posting anything on these forums for fear of over moderation

Same here.

Me too.

joergino

vsrs_au wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

I’m at the stage where I fear for posting anything on these forums for fear of over moderation

Same here.

Me too.

Definitely.

LadyGP

MJallday wrote: »

I’m at the stage where I fear for posting anything on these forums for fear of over moderation

(scared to say how I feel in response to this post other than... I agree)

Casul

joergino wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

CatoUnchained wrote: »

MJallday wrote: »

I’m at the stage where I fear for posting anything on these forums for fear of over moderation

Same here.

Me too.

Definitely.

Mixed. Wouldn’t say I fear it, but would say I am not surprised if it happens. I rarely get moderated, but I notice when “controversial” posts (read as critical) get removed.

defcon.dealer1b14_ESO

Just delete/edit your post before it gets moderated.....problem solved 👍😎👍

Ruthless

MJallday wrote: »

I’m at the stage where I fear for posting anything on these forums for fear of over moderation

this

jcaceresw

I am glad I am not the only one having such problem. I had to stop posting on this forum because everything I write the mod accuse me of breaking the code of conduct, naming and shaming, bait and a long list of reasons I haven't done. Constructive or destructive criticism about the current state of the game is taken as bashing instead of being seen as a opportunity to make the game better. So the mod proceed to slap me with a forum ban (for now) to a paying customer since beta (10 years).

anitajoneb17_ESO

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I don't think anyone needs to be afraid to post here, as long as they use self-moderation.

That is either overly optimitic, or overly naive, or both.
Mods are humans. Humans can be (at best) subjective, or more commonly.. simply not intelligent (to put it mildly). They can also, like all of us, be overseeing things, lazy to collect the whole context, tired or upset by something unrelated which influences their interpretation at any given moment.
They can also (like all of us) be overjoyed and blinded by their power and overuse it.
They can also (like all of us) feel tired of demands, requests and constant criticism while they're doing their best.
Or a mix of all the above, and more.

And we, wether guilty or innocent, depend upon all those factors, and more, which are beyond our reach.

Being a good girl/boy is not enough to be protected from "moderators".

I am always afraid to post anywhere on the internet - and believe me, I'm not the "shy kind". And I am even more afrid to post here than anywhere else. I do it now but I think I shouldn't. It's just that I feel sympathetic with OP.

spartaxoxo

jcaceresw wrote: »

I am glad I am not the only one having such problem. I had to stop posting on this forum because everything I write the mod accuse me of breaking the code of conduct, naming and shaming, bait and a long list of reasons I haven't done. Constructive or destructive criticism about the current state of the game is taken as bashing instead of being seen as a opportunity to make the game better. So the mod proceed to slap me with a forum ban (for now) to a paying customer since beta (10 years).

Destructive criticism is bashing to be fair. Try to be constructive when issuing cricitsm.

katanagirl1

I don’t worry so much posting on the forums now, there was that time a while back when it was touchy.

I did ask for clarification a while back about something but I never got a response. It was an honest question, not trolling or angry. I really wanted to know what was wrong. I forget what it was about now.

You non-native English speakers sound just fine to me. It’s the native English speakers from America posting things about “should of” done something that just kill me, lol.

spartaxoxo

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t worry so much posting on the forums now, there was that time a while back when it was touchy.

I did ask for clarification a while back about something but I never got a response. It was an honest question, not trolling or angry. I really wanted to know what was wrong. I forget what it was about now.

You non-native English speakers sound just fine to me. It’s the native English speakers from America posting things about “should of” done something that just kill me, lol.

I should of mentioned that to but your right

😈

DigiAngel

I once got a 72 hour here for a phrase that's commonly used. Several instances of that phrase are still in the forums today. Responding to the DM with examples got no response at all. I'm sure there are guidelines for moderating forums. But I'm also just as sure that things happen when mods are in a bad mood, have you as the forum poster in their sites due to previous infractions, or just on a whim.

To be fair however, this seems across the board...from other game forums, to reddit, to discord.

Vulkunne

XSTRONG wrote: »

If I think they are wrong on removing my post etc etc, where do I report them?

Answering their mail does nothing.

Just don't post unless it's something for official feedback or letting them know of a potential technical problem.

Understand that they're going to do what they want to do with this game and no amount of support for this game will ever change that.

Learn from others mistakes and make better decisions in the future.

Pelanora

Everything I've just read above ^^^ all the posts, are all basically raising the same issue, and that issue is behind the rule in good administration or procedural fairness, that the reasons for WHY a rule is applied, matter, and explanations are crucial.

It is arbitrary to say "action x is breaking rule y".

It is good process to say 'here are the reasons for why action x is considered to be breaking rule y'.

Reasons matter, and good reasons take context into account. And I would add, take other users responses into account. Sometimes posts come down so fast I'm sure next to noone saw them.

Secondly, then all the applications of rule y, all the reasons why actions were considered to break rule y, can be reviewed. This brings moderation to the system, and the review can say ' agree with all your reasons for most, but this one, i don't see how you could decide this one broke the rule?.

jcaceresw

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jcaceresw wrote: »

I am glad I am not the only one having such problem. I had to stop posting on this forum because everything I write the mod accuse me of breaking the code of conduct, naming and shaming, bait and a long list of reasons I haven't done. Constructive or destructive criticism about the current state of the game is taken as bashing instead of being seen as a opportunity to make the game better. So the mod proceed to slap me with a forum ban (for now) to a paying customer since beta (10 years).

Destructive criticism is bashing to be fair. Try to be constructive when issuing cricitsm.

I want this game to be better not just for me but for current or future players. Destructive criticism are to be viewed as issues you need to resolve to make the game better. Removing/editing my comment because of "bashing" is like ignoring the problem and continue making it worse. Also, I said in my previous comment that even CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is considered as bashing.

spartaxoxo

jcaceresw wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jcaceresw wrote: »

I am glad I am not the only one having such problem. I had to stop posting on this forum because everything I write the mod accuse me of breaking the code of conduct, naming and shaming, bait and a long list of reasons I haven't done. Constructive or destructive criticism about the current state of the game is taken as bashing instead of being seen as a opportunity to make the game better. So the mod proceed to slap me with a forum ban (for now) to a paying customer since beta (10 years).

Destructive criticism is bashing to be fair. Try to be constructive when issuing cricitsm.

I want this game to be better not just for me but for current or future players. Destructive criticism are to be viewed as issues you need to resolve to make the game better. Removing/editing my comment because of "bashing" is like ignoring the problem and continue making it worse. Also, I said in my previous comment that even CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is considered as bashing.

Destructive criticism is not appropriate. You can express the same issues without being rude about it. Constructive criticism is fine and shouldn't be snipped. There are always going to be legitimate issues with any and every game. Nothing and nobody is perfect. Imperfection isn't an excuse to be destructive.

And I get that's easier said than done because we're all only human and sometimes we get mad and it gets the better of us. Doesn't make it not against the rules or something to be ignored by the mods.

jcaceresw

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jcaceresw wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

jcaceresw wrote: »

I am glad I am not the only one having such problem. I had to stop posting on this forum because everything I write the mod accuse me of breaking the code of conduct, naming and shaming, bait and a long list of reasons I haven't done. Constructive or destructive criticism about the current state of the game is taken as bashing instead of being seen as a opportunity to make the game better. So the mod proceed to slap me with a forum ban (for now) to a paying customer since beta (10 years).

Destructive criticism is bashing to be fair. Try to be constructive when issuing cricitsm.

I want this game to be better not just for me but for current or future players. Destructive criticism are to be viewed as issues you need to resolve to make the game better. Removing/editing my comment because of "bashing" is like ignoring the problem and continue making it worse. Also, I said in my previous comment that even CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is considered as bashing.

Destructive criticism is not appropriate. You can express the same issues without being rude about it. Constructive criticism is fine and shouldn't be snipped. There are always going to be legitimate issues with any and every game. Nothing and nobody is perfect. Imperfection isn't an excuse to be destructive.

And I get that's easier said than done because we're all only human and sometimes we get mad and it gets the better of us. Doesn't make it not against the rules or something to be ignored by the mods.

Guess you think that by destructive criticism is always to use rude words and making threats and demands. Not everyone are that uncivilized when giving destructive criticism not with the intention of making harm but to highlight what can be done better. Like you said, I can express my opinion without being rude/insulting or demanding. But even using the most good conducted words and behavior I still get flagged as a "bad actor".

JavaRen

Looks like you two might be using different definitions of "desructive criticism.: