Which weapon skill line would you pick for a rework?

MindOfTheSwarm

Another poll to go over skills and lines that might need tuning.

Erickson9610

Force Siphon (Restoration Staff) and Weakness to Elements (Destruction Staff) should probably be buffed and given a cost in Magicka. Those skills do very little, but the zero cost part makes them incredibly powerful. They can be used at a range of 28 meters, too, so you have the resources and distance to evade your target if they're approaching you.

MindOfTheSwarm

Destruction Staff

My reasoning is that most skills are just pallet swaps with the rest being the exact same skill. I would suggest splitting them up into distinct skill lines with their own flavour.
Flame: Single Target DoT focused
Shock: AoE Direct focused
Frost: AoE DoT focused with some tank options
Magic (Possible?): Single Target Direct focused

Alternatively, tweak the existing skills within the skill line to make them more unique.

Tommy_The_Gun

Bow

Bow - It is imho most useless weapon skill line. It suffered too many nerfs due to PvP and is kinda a meme weapon.

Destruction & Restoration staff - even after hybridization, both are still pretty much exclusive for magicka based builds & lack support in passives when it comes to stamina builds. Technically there is a Destruction staff scribing skill that only recently got a very weak option for stamina skill but it is "meh" at best. Restoration staff still lacks stamina based self-heal.

SkaraMinoc

Restoration Staff

The Restoration Staff abilities don't feel impactful or engaging.

katanagirl1

Bow

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Bow - It is imho most useless weapon skill line. It suffered too many nerfs due to PvP and is kinda a meme weapon.

Destruction & Restoration staff - even after hybridization, both are still pretty much exclusive for magicka based builds & lack support in passives when it comes to stamina builds. Technically there is a Destruction staff scribing skill that only recently got a very weak option for stamina skill but it is "meh" at best. Restoration staff still lacks stamina based self-heal.

I came here to say that. Supposedly it got a buff a while back but I can’t see a difference. Besides the only somewhat useful skills are poison injection and endless hail, and the dots for hail are weak.

You hardly see anyone running around with a bow on their character anymore.

Renato90085

Restoration Staff

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Bow - It is imho most useless weapon skill line. It suffered too many nerfs due to PvP and is kinda a meme weapon.

Destruction & Restoration staff - even after hybridization, both are still pretty much exclusive for magicka based builds & lack support in passives when it comes to stamina builds. Technically there is a Destruction staff scribing skill that only recently got a very weak option for stamina skill but it is "meh" at best. Restoration staff still lacks stamina based self-heal.

I came here to say that. Supposedly it got a buff a while back but I can’t see a difference. Besides the only somewhat useful skills are poison injection and endless hail, and the dots for hail are weak.

You hardly see anyone running around with a bow on their character anymore.

in pve
old bow>>if you need speed(last passive or your class bad use vma greatsword(temp
passive buff>>good for Tideborn Taleria HM >>bow/bow temp/sorc
because her hitbox is ...big?

katanagirl1

Bow

Renato90085 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Bow - It is imho most useless weapon skill line. It suffered too many nerfs due to PvP and is kinda a meme weapon.

Destruction & Restoration staff - even after hybridization, both are still pretty much exclusive for magicka based builds & lack support in passives when it comes to stamina builds. Technically there is a Destruction staff scribing skill that only recently got a very weak option for stamina skill but it is "meh" at best. Restoration staff still lacks stamina based self-heal.

I came here to say that. Supposedly it got a buff a while back but I can’t see a difference. Besides the only somewhat useful skills are poison injection and endless hail, and the dots for hail are weak.

You hardly see anyone running around with a bow on their character anymore.

in pve
old bow>>if you need speed(last passive or your class bad use vma greatsword(temp
passive buff>>good for Tideborn Taleria HM >>bow/bow temp/sorc
because her hitbox is ...big?

My argument is that greatsword and destro staves and even dual wield have much better skills amd damage and bow should be buffed to match them.

xXCJsniperXx7

Bow

Besides Poison Injection and Endless Hail, the skill line isn't good for most builds. The spammable has a cast time. Scatter Shot is only good for pushing things. Acid Spray is too short of a dot. Then there are just better ultis than Rapid Fire, not to mention, it's channeled mostly... so dps loss.

the1andonlyskwex

Destruction Staff

I voted destruction staff because having 4 elements (and 2 roles) in one skill line has never really worked.

That said, I also think it's problematic that restoration staff is so sharply divided between 2-3 absolutely essential (i.e. probably overpowered) healer skills/morphs, and a bunch of skills/morphs that are totally useless.

BlueRaven

Bow

Bow. It’s just… So underwhelming.

Even the new “vault” scribing spell is just terrible;

“Here is a short ranged attack for a weapon you are normally at long range with!”

Pass.

robpr

Restoration Staff

Voted Resto because 2 skills are nearly useless and heavily outclassed by scribing skills.

Steadfast Ward is just one target with not that strong shield and barely any effects. Weld Soul, Soulburst and Contingency have similar or stronger shields and can have a vitality or other effects without the need of arena weapon. Only use of ward is to cast it "under" other shields (like on Sorcs) with the healing morph so it can keep ticking in PVP, but even then, Sorcs can just use the Hardened Ward heal instead.

Energy siphon is simply outdated. Minor lifesteal is easily available from much more useful Blood Altar. Minor magickasteal from Siphon Spirit is achieved by Ele drain or Overcharged status effect. Minor expedition is not needed anywhere since everybody can use RAT or Quick Cloak for Major expedition.

MasterSpatula

Destruction Staff

Bow probably needs it more, but selfishly, Destro.

GOD, I want Shock Sticks to be genuinely as good as Fire Sticks. For ten years, I've wanted this. We got close-ish with heavy attack builds before the sad nerfing of those builds. I don't want it to be better than fire. I just want to front-bar shock and not be a joke.

Both bow and all staves would benefit from the real update we need, fixing ranged targeting so that both cease the be the miserable experience they've become over the last few years. Before a revamp of skill lines, I want to see targeting back to where it was a few years ago, if not better. All weapon skills would feel better if perfectly-aimed attacks consistently hit.

dark_hunterxmg

Two-Handed

I would like to see all of them reworked so that Werewolf can use the applicable passives in form. There are useful passives in many of the skill lines that would be helpful. Currently it makes no difference whether I carry a Restoration Staff, Maul, or Bow.

DenverRalphy

Bow

The bow really needs a rework, and IMHO adjusting the passives could fix it.

The biggest hangup is that you can't use a ranged weapon at range, because conventional mechanics requires you to be in front of the healer if you want to receive any heals. And maximizing damage is difficult since it's just not ideal for a group mechanic to play it from ranged. So what I would propose is...

• Accuracy should be retooled to combine its current function with the functionality of Vinedusk Training. Providing a sliding scale based on distance 7 - 28 meters. Closer you are boosts damage, further away boosts crit to a max of what both the old Accuracy and Vinedusk combined would have provided.
• Vinedusk Training completely changed to provide damage reduction/evasion on a sliding scale from 10- 28 meters with the maximum being significant enough to mitigate the need to always stand in front of the healer.

This would allow Bow users to maximize their damage, and be able to reposition themselves for heals/buffs when needed while providing a reduction of drain on the healers.

Cooperharley

Two-Handed

Frankly I think most of all of the weapon skill lines need a facelift - textures, animations, balance, etc.

But resto, 2H and bow stand out the most to me. All 5 skills AND the ulti should be exciting to use and used OFTEN, which currently that’s not the case because many of the skills just aren’t viable

BasP

Destruction Staff

I admit that I voted for Destruction Staffs solely because I'd like to see Frost Staffs have an offensive bonus. Though without a defensive Alteration Staff (or anything like that), I suppose the tanking bonus still should be somewhere in the Destruction Staff Skill Line...

Hence, I wouldn't mind it if the bonus Frost Staffs give would depend on the user's Maximum Health for now. If you have less than 34K Max Health, you'd get an offensive buff and if you have more than that you'd get a defensive buff for example.

Alongside that, I also wouldn't mind it if skills like Wall of Elements were adjusted so that they'd be more damage instead of support oriented when wielding a Frost Staff (depending on the aforementioned Health threshold).

Zodiarkslayer

One Handed and Shield

The question should've been which skill line does not need a change?
There are problems in every skill line.

So, I voted SnB, because of its limited usefulness to only tanks. It is literally useless for everyone else.

• It needs a spammable that isn't a bash (ideally ransack with updated costs)
• a ground DoT that procs the weapon enchant on the backbar (NOT shield charge!)
• a single target DoT (ideally Low Slash)
• WD/SD (5% isn't enough, the flat 258 like in 2H would do), penetration or crit damage; like with 2H and DualWield
• update animations or
• remove abilities like shield charge (super useless) and posture (useless because of its scaling)
• or something new, like different type of shields. For example . Bucklers, Kite Shields and Round Shields have all different effects on combat.

It is possible to achieve that while still keeping to SnB's tanky nature.

Bobargus

Destruction Staff

I think the destruction staff skills could have at least one pet skill, preferably a permanent one.

At least one permanent pet ability, available for all classes.

Conjuration magic ftw.

francesinhalover

Two-Handed

For bow...Volley could use a 20 sec morph. arrow barrage blinds my eyes, but ignoring that, I think given most skills are 20 secs. weapon skills being 15 just complicates rotations.

That's why i use poison injection arena weapon. It's 20 secs... i dislike that it is single target but it's the only option i have because all other arena weapon skills are around 15 seconds.

Two handed: I'm not a fan of how stampede feels in dps rotations(used due to arena weapon). So i end up never using 2 handed.

staffs... same situation endless hail has. elemental blockade could use a 20 secs rework so it goes well with other ingame dots. It is again, one of the reasons i don't use staffs on backbar.

MindOfTheSwarm

Destruction Staff

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

The question should've been which skill line does not need a change?
There are problems in every skill line.

So, I voted SnB, because of its limited usefulness to only tanks. It is literally useless for everyone else.

• It needs a spammable that isn't a bash (ideally ransack with updated costs)
• a ground DoT that procs the weapon enchant on the backbar (NOT shield charge!)
• a single target DoT (ideally Low Slash)
• WD/SD (5% isn't enough, the flat 258 like in 2H would do), penetration or crit damage; like with 2H and DualWield
• update animations or
• remove abilities like shield charge (super useless) and posture (useless because of its scaling)
• or something new, like different type of shields. For example . Bucklers, Kite Shields and Round Shields have all different effects on combat.

It is possible to achieve that while still keeping to SnB's tanky nature.

I agree with Low Slash having a Bleed DoT. But I don’t agree with it needing a spammable. The Bash attacks works fine as is and is arguably the best spammable in the game if you run Bashing glyphs. Adding a different spammable would only result in Power Slam being nerfed and thus killing Bash builds. Bash builds are a niche way to play and offer something special. Breaking that would make them worthless along with most other “off-standard” ways of playing. The game needs more unique ways to play. Not less.

Theist_VII

Dual Wield

While I would normally pick Sword and Shield, because the offensive skills of the kit need a complete overhaul, skills like Heroic Slash’s other morph, and Invasion, not even mentioning the complete lack in identity between mainhands…

Flurry needs yet another animation change, while the first one looked goofy with maces and axes, the new one looks ridiculous… period.

Not to mention, Throwing Knife needs a complete rework as it doesn’t work as a spammable when used with a melee weapon yet wants to be one, Steel Tornado needs it’s execute scaling back with both morphs revised, and the passives need an overhaul.

There is no reason why dual-wield should be the most damage dense weapon to choose from just from merely slotting it.

Susan_Sto

Bow

Definity Bow.

My main is a wood elf StamPlar and I hate not being able to use a bow. Wood elf stamina builds should be functional at least with a DW/ Bow set up.

Most guilds recommend DW/ 2H setup of StamPlars but the idea of a character using a sword that is as big as they are just feels wrong.

BasP

Destruction Staff

Susan_Sto wrote: »

Definity Bow.

My main is a wood elf StamPlar and I hate not being able to use a bow. Wood elf stamina builds should be functional at least with a DW/ Bow set up.

Most guilds recommend DW/ 2H setup of StamPlars but the idea of a character using a sword that is as big as they are just feels wrong.

I believe a "meta" Stamplar uses bows however? Though that's a Bow/Bow and not DW/Bow setup.

Zodiarkslayer

One Handed and Shield

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

The question should've been which skill line does not need a change?
There are problems in every skill line.

So, I voted SnB, because of its limited usefulness to only tanks. It is literally useless for everyone else.

• It needs a spammable that isn't a bash (ideally ransack with updated costs)
• a ground DoT that procs the weapon enchant on the backbar (NOT shield charge!)
• a single target DoT (ideally Low Slash)
• WD/SD (5% isn't enough, the flat 258 like in 2H would do), penetration or crit damage; like with 2H and DualWield
• update animations or
• remove abilities like shield charge (super useless) and posture (useless because of its scaling)
• or something new, like different type of shields. For example . Bucklers, Kite Shields and Round Shields have all different effects on combat.

It is possible to achieve that while still keeping to SnB's tanky nature.

I agree with Low Slash having a Bleed DoT. But I don’t agree with it needing a spammable. The Bash attacks works fine as is and is arguably the best spammable in the game if you run Bashing glyphs. Adding a different spammable would only result in Power Slam being nerfed and thus killing Bash builds. Bash builds are a niche way to play and offer something special. Breaking that would make them worthless along with most other “off-standard” ways of playing. The game needs more unique ways to play. Not less.

I didn't say: Kill the Bash builds! Did I?
In my opinion there are at least two abilities, two to three further morphs and two passives, that are obsolete and/or useless.

There's a lot of potential for improvement without cutting into the tankyness and without deleting bash builds.

Lets just do it! Everyone will be better off. Even Tanks can use more Spell Damage for their self heals.

Zodiarkslayer

One Handed and Shield

Susan_Sto wrote: »

Definity Bow.

My main is a wood elf StamPlar and I hate not being able to use a bow. Wood elf stamina builds should be functional at least with a DW/ Bow set up.

Most guilds recommend DW/ 2H setup of StamPlars but the idea of a character using a sword that is as big as they are just feels wrong.

It depends. If you use Jabs as spammable, you need to be in melee range.

But what if you use something else? Silver Shards and even Blazing Spear are options for Bow/Bow Templars. And they hit hard. You just need to build around them.

Taril

Destruction Staff

I'd personally say, give us Alteration Staves for Tanking and rework Destro into a full on DPS skill line.

Overall, all weapon lines could do with a rework to be honest. Yes, even DW, since even though it's "Good" its a little too good, where even Mag DPS wants to use DW just because of the passives are better than main bar staff.

moderatelyfatman

Destruction Staff

Ice Staff needs to be redone as a pure damage staff so it becomes a viable alternative to Flame and Lightning.
You can then bring in a fourth staff type for tanking that has low damage e.g. Alteration/Force Staff.

MindOfTheSwarm

Destruction Staff

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Ice Staff needs to be redone as a pure damage staff so it becomes a viable alternative to Flame and Lightning.
You can then bring in a fourth staff type for tanking that has low damage e.g. Alteration/Force Staff.

I don’t mind that Ice Staff has some tanking utility but I do think its viability as an offensive option needs expanding.
For example: I would like to see the fully charged heavy attack shield be moved to one that activates while bracing and refreshes every 6 seconds or so.
Meanwhile, the fully charged heavy attack could summon a snowstorm that swirls around the caster for 10-20 seconds. This would give it something offensive while still maintaining its defensive value.

the1andonlyskwex

Destruction Staff

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Ice Staff needs to be redone as a pure damage staff so it becomes a viable alternative to Flame and Lightning.
You can then bring in a fourth staff type for tanking that has low damage e.g. Alteration/Force Staff.

I don’t mind that Ice Staff has some tanking utility but I do think its viability as an offensive option needs expanding.
For example: I would like to see the fully charged heavy attack shield be moved to one that activates while bracing and refreshes every 6 seconds or so.
Meanwhile, the fully charged heavy attack could summon a snowstorm that swirls around the caster for 10-20 seconds. This would give it something offensive while still maintaining its defensive value.

The problem is that an ice staff that is good for both DPS and tanking is almost guaranteed to be overpowered in PvP.

Elsonso

Destruction Staff

The role of Destruction Staff should be DPS with three elemental flavors. If ZOS wants a large stick that will taunt, they need to create one, like they did with Restoration Staff and healing. They can call it Big Threatening Staff.