Suggested Rework of Elemental Susceptibility

BahometZ · November 17

I am just so sick of the playerbase calling for nerfs. Bunch of narcs. This one skill is not making or breaking anyone's success/failure. Knowledge of gameplay/mechs trumps all the little bugbears that people like to point the finger at. It's a video game, I don't care if you're "abusing" it in IA or wherever. Have fun, hug your loved ones, touch grass.

Vaqual · November 19

BahometZ wrote: »

I am just so sick of the playerbase calling for nerfs. Bunch of narcs. This one skill is not making or breaking anyone's success/failure. Knowledge of gameplay/mechs trumps all the little bugbears that people like to point the finger at. It's a video game, I don't care if you're "abusing" it in IA or wherever. Have fun, hug your loved ones, touch grass.

As long as they keep adding unbalanced things people will ask for nerfs. Only because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean that it does not impact another players experience. There isn't a finite number of nerfs that can be made before the fun is gone. Balancing is just a dynamic process, every addition of content can necessitate adjustments.

This ability has been criticized since its dramatic buff - which was 2 years ago. The fact that it is cheesy in the archive is just the cherry on top. [snip]

There are at least 3 threads where the problems with this ability are discussed in complete detail.

[Edit for Bait.]

Gabriel_H · November 19

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Pain points:

1. WHY is the cost free? Nightblades semi-recently had their class-defining Major Breach skill nerfed to require a hefty cost. No skills should ever be free cost. And class-agnostic skills should never be better than class skills.

2. Duration is WAY too long. No debuff or damage skills should ever exceed 30 seconds. Ever.

3. Status Effects are unnecessary. The skill was perfectly fine before this feature was randomly added. The fact that this can be used as a spammable in IA is gross and obviously its situation in PvP is highly problematic (particularly when combined with the Stuck In Combat bug).

This skill should be rolled-back to how it was before it was buffed to the moon and back. People used it back then and they will use it again if they need Major Breach and have no other options.

1. It's available to Nightblades. And there are several weapon skills that are better than class skills, that are the cornerstone of PvE play. Deadly Cloak and Pierce Armour spring to mind.

2. Again, the length and range of it are utilized in PvE encounters, that would be considerably more difficult with any reduction of time and range.

3. An argument to be made on limiting the status effect to one - being the staff type used - but the effect again is utilized in PvE as a way to have enemies focus and follow.

Dagoth_Rac · November 19

Elemental Susceptibility is mediocre (at best) in 100% of PvE outside IA. And even in IA, it is garbage 90% of the time because you don't have enough stacks of Focused Efforts to make it worth using.

I don't think people realize how overpowered the mobs get in IA. It ramps up relatively quickly and you end up having to solo or duo content where trash has Trial levels of health.

The entire design of IA is to get lucky RNG with visions where player can be as overpowered as the mobs. IA is not "easy" with Focused Efforts plus Ele Susc. It's more that IA becomes unplayable without them. No one is gonna spend an hour to slowly pew pew a skeever with 100 million health.

Something, anything, has to be overpowered in IA to keep up with the infinite power creep of the mobs. Right now, it is Focused Efforts plus Elemental Susceptibility. If you nerf that, something, anything, needs to take its place. Or else IA becomes "infinite" content that no one is gonna do past Arc 3 or so.

The visions in IA are literally designed to make player OP. That's the content. That's the design. Because the mobs cheat by getting exponentially more powerful with each Arc. And with some RNG luck, player can get the "cheat code" visions to match the mobs.

BananaBender · November 19

PvE perspective,
The fact that the skill is free is a bit odd and it wouldn't be the end of the world to see a 2k magicka cost slapped on it. But nerfing what the skill does would be just bad. Right now it's not problematic in any PvE content, period. In IA the "problem" is Focused Efforts, not Elemental Susceptibility. Even if you didn't have Ele sus in IA, people would just use a scribing spammable to apply status effects and nothing would change. If you have a correct build and get far enough sustain is not an issue either.

Elemental Susceptibility is also used a lot on tanks, for the breach, but also mainly for the status effects (concussed) which when paired with a healer's lightning Wall of Elements, procs Off Balance automatically. If the status effects were to be messed with, it would just create a further divide between organized and unorganized play. Good groups would provide the Off Balance elsewhere, but the lower skill level groups would see a massive DPS loss. This would also just add another support skill for the support DD to run, making their lives even more miserable. Making the skill cost a significant amount of magicka or reducing the duration would just make tanks lives worse, mostly affecting newer and lower skilled tanks.

If Ele Sus were to apply concussed only if you use a lightning staff, this would just flood the healers with yet another skill they have to provide for the group. That's one of the few things healers absolutely don't want right now, when in a lot of fights they have to drop major skills already for certain mechanics.

In short, not a problem at all in PvE, only enables lower levelled groups to get some extra damage without too much of a headache.

Aggrovious · November 19

Stop asking for balance in PVP. You will never receive it.

BXR_Lonestar · November 19

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Arguably this skill is overloaded and it’s free to cast. It’s very abused in PvP and I think many agree it needs to be adjusted. I suggest that each staff offers unique effects that best suit the play style of the damage types.

On top of the Major Breach I suggest the following effects:

Flame Susceptibility: Affected enemies take 15% more damage from your Flame damage over time effects.

Shock Susceptibility: You deal 10% more Critical Damage with Shock vs the target.

Frost Susceptibility: The target has 200% more chance to afflicted with the Chilled status when you deal Frost Damage to them.

This way the burst from the skill is reduced and instead the focus is more on sustained benefits.

On a side note, I think Wrath of Elements should always deal damage matching the staff you’re using. But that’s another discussion.

I actually really like this suggestion, except that a target then needs to be able to be effected by all 3 types of susceptibility, or your coordinated groups are going to continue to override their teammates chosen susceptibility and lead to DPS loss rather than DPS synergy (in a PVE environment anyways).

Outside of that, I think the easiest solution to this skill would be to keep it as is and add a cost to it. I think you already get pulled out of stealth now if you try to cast it from stealth - but if I'm wrong on that, it should also pull you out of stealth when cast.

Vaqual · November 19

Aggrovious wrote: »

Stop asking for balance in PVP. You will never receive it.

Even though this is probably just bait, I am glad that you are not bothered by poorly balanced gameplay and you are having fun. For many players the opposite is true and I am sure reasonable compromises can be reached (very sure actually - it is trivially easy in 99.99% of balancing cases).

Vaqual · November 20

BahometZ wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

BahometZ wrote: »

I am just so sick of the playerbase calling for nerfs. Bunch of narcs. This one skill is not making or breaking anyone's success/failure. Knowledge of gameplay/mechs trumps all the little bugbears that people like to point the finger at. It's a video game, I don't care if you're "abusing" it in IA or wherever. Have fun, hug your loved ones, touch grass.

As long as they keep adding unbalanced things people will ask for nerfs. Only because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean that it does not impact another players experience. There isn't a finite number of nerfs that can be made before the fun is gone. Balancing is just a dynamic process, every addition of content can necessitate adjustments.

This ability has been criticized since its dramatic buff - which was 2 years ago. The fact that it is cheesy in the archive is just the cherry on top. [snip]

There are at least 3 threads where the problems with this ability are discussed in complete detail.

[Edit for Bait.]

Quoted post has been removed.

[snip]

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7910583/#Comment_7910583
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8038390/#Comment_8038390
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7911398/#Comment_7911398
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8066193/#Comment_8066193
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8037155/#Comment_8037155
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7898493/#Comment_7898493

Just two small reminders:
1) Nerfing something does not mean that the ability/set has to be useless afterwards. Sensible adjustment is maybe not the ZOS' strength, but it is certainly possible.
2) These threads are from a range of different patches.

[Edit for Bait.]

BahometZ · November 20

I've seen most of these when they were first brought up, but thanks for the refresher. Notably a lot of the outcry was during the vateshran destro staff meta. That has since been nerfed, as has the charged trait, which in my opinion has reduced ele sus to an ok skill in pvp, not worth complaining about.

The_Meathead · November 20

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Pain points:

1. WHY is the cost free? Nightblades semi-recently had their class-defining Major Breach skill nerfed to require a hefty cost. No skills should ever be free cost. And class-agnostic skills should never be better than class skills.

2. Duration is WAY too long. No debuff or damage skills should ever exceed 30 seconds. Ever.

3. Status Effects are unnecessary. The skill was perfectly fine before this feature was randomly added. The fact that this can be used as a spammable in IA is gross and obviously its situation in PvP is highly problematic (particularly when combined with the Stuck In Combat bug).

This skill should be rolled-back to how it was before it was buffed to the moon and back. People used it back then and they will use it again if they need Major Breach and have no other options.

^^ All of this.

It makes absolutely no sense to me how all-encompassing Ele Sus is, for absolutely zero cost, at ranged, and how ubiquitous a Vateshran Ice Staff backbar has become because of it.

Please nerf the bajeezus out of Ele Sus or add a cost and a duration reduction.