Suggested Rework of Elemental Susceptibility

MindOfTheSwarm

Arguably this skill is overloaded and it’s free to cast. It’s very abused in PvP and I think many agree it needs to be adjusted. I suggest that each staff offers unique effects that best suit the play style of the damage types.

On top of the Major Breach I suggest the following effects:

Flame Susceptibility: Affected enemies take 15% more damage from your Flame damage over time effects.

Shock Susceptibility: You deal 10% more Critical Damage with Shock vs the target.

Frost Susceptibility: The target has 200% more chance to afflicted with the Chilled status when you deal Frost Damage to them.

This way the burst from the skill is reduced and instead the focus is more on sustained benefits.

On a side note, I think Wrath of Elements should always deal damage matching the staff you’re using. But that’s another discussion.

Poss

It’s ridiculous how overpowered it is for a free skill too.

Personally I’m happy with its effects it just needs a duration nerf and a cost to cast

YandereGirlfriend

Yeah, this skill has gotta go.

AcadianPaladin

The skill is fine in PvE. If there is a problem with the skill in PvP, then use battle spirit to change it or simply have it deliver different effects when the target is another player.

My Oakensoul PvE soloist mages have very few options to get Major Breach if they are not a warden. Basically use a five slot set (Night Mother's Gaze) or slot Elemental Susceptibility. Both options have a significant cost in terms of either a full five piece set or a very valuable skill slot. My Templar can't spare the skill slot so she runs NMG. My Sorc is able to slot EleSus, but only because it does several things.

freespirit

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

The skill is fine in PvE. If there is a problem with the skill in PvP, then use battle spirit to change it or simply have it deliver different effects when the target is another player.

My Oakensoul PvE soloist mages have very few options to get Major Breach if they are not a warden. Basically use a five slot set (Night Mother's Gaze) or slot Elemental Susceptibility. Both options have a significant cost in terms of either a full five piece set or a very valuable skill slot. My Templar can't spare the skill slot so she runs NMG. My Sorc is able to slot EleSus, but only because it does several things.

This ^^

I actually have made a space on my Templar and my Sorc runs it too.

It really is time to try separate PVE skills from PVP by the suggestions above, I for one would be sad to lose this skill in PVE!!

ESO_player123

freespirit wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

The skill is fine in PvE. If there is a problem with the skill in PvP, then use battle spirit to change it or simply have it deliver different effects when the target is another player.

My Oakensoul PvE soloist mages have very few options to get Major Breach if they are not a warden. Basically use a five slot set (Night Mother's Gaze) or slot Elemental Susceptibility. Both options have a significant cost in terms of either a full five piece set or a very valuable skill slot. My Templar can't spare the skill slot so she runs NMG. My Sorc is able to slot EleSus, but only because it does several things.

This ^^

I actually have made a space on my Templar and my Sorc runs it too.

It really is time to try separate PVE skills from PVP by the suggestions above, I for one would be sad to lose this skill in PVE!!

Exactly. If someone does not like something in PvP, please advocate for changes under the battle spirit and leave PvE alone.

YandereGirlfriend

Pain points:

1. WHY is the cost free? Nightblades semi-recently had their class-defining Major Breach skill nerfed to require a hefty cost. No skills should ever be free cost. And class-agnostic skills should never be better than class skills.

2. Duration is WAY too long. No debuff or damage skills should ever exceed 30 seconds. Ever.

3. Status Effects are unnecessary. The skill was perfectly fine before this feature was randomly added. The fact that this can be used as a spammable in IA is gross and obviously its situation in PvP is highly problematic (particularly when combined with the Stuck In Combat bug).

This skill should be rolled-back to how it was before it was buffed to the moon and back. People used it back then and they will use it again if they need Major Breach and have no other options.

Taril

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My Oakensoul PvE soloist mages have very few options to get Major Breach if they are not a warden.

If you note, OP isn't saying to get rid of the skill or to remove the Major Breach.

They're just advocating for replacing the triple Status Effects every 7.5 seconds on the specific morph be replaced by element specific debuffs (That revolve around the elemental status effects)

tomofhyrule

Now that every status effect does damage instantly, that skill being free seems really overpowered.

I think adding a cost to it would really serve to balance it out somewhat. Especially since Vateshran ends up adding a lot of extra damage with the tether all for zero cost.

oldbobdude

One of my main skills in IA. Stop with the nerfs. Separate PvP and PvE. I know, I know, not gonna happen.

YandereGirlfriend

oldbobdude wrote: »

One of my main skills in IA. Stop with the nerfs. Separate PvP and PvE. I know, I know, not gonna happen.

It should be nerfed in PvE as well. A free-cost spammable is completely imbalanced. People have been mad enough about Blood for Blood and that at least costs Health.

AcadianPaladin

My magplar delivers Major Breach to crowds via Night Mother's Gaze. My wardens deliver Major Breach to crowds via shalks. For them, both options are better than EleSus.

My magsorc uses EleSus and lives with its significant drawback of being single target only because she does not want to give up five gear slots for NMG and because EleSus has benefits (extra range and DoT) that help compensate for being single target.

sarahthes

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

oldbobdude wrote: »

One of my main skills in IA. Stop with the nerfs. Separate PvP and PvE. I know, I know, not gonna happen.

It should be nerfed in PvE as well. A free-cost spammable is completely imbalanced. People have been mad enough about Blood for Blood and that at least costs Health.

The only place it's used like that is IA, so if it needs changing then the change should be to focused efforts. In trials it's mainly used to help with brittle and Baron Zaudrus procs, along with breach.

Poss

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Exactly. If someone does not like something in PvP, please advocate for changes under the battle spirit and leave PvE alone.

It’s literally free to cast. Should totally be nerfed in PvE as well.

Give it a cost. A skill like ele sus which gives major breach, a rotation of all three status effects, last 30 seconds and is often used as a spammable should not be free

MindOfTheSwarm

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Pain points:

1. WHY is the cost free? Nightblades semi-recently had their class-defining Major Breach skill nerfed to require a hefty cost. No skills should ever be free cost. And class-agnostic skills should never be better than class skills.

2. Duration is WAY too long. No debuff or damage skills should ever exceed 30 seconds. Ever.

3. Status Effects are unnecessary. The skill was perfectly fine before this feature was randomly added. The fact that this can be used as a spammable in IA is gross and obviously its situation in PvP is highly problematic (particularly when combined with the Stuck In Combat bug).

This skill should be rolled-back to how it was before it was buffed to the moon and back. People used it back then and they will use it again if they need Major Breach and have no other options.

I agree with everything here except point 2. Longer durations on buffs and debuffs help players with arthritis. I welcome longer durations on such skills.

MindOfTheSwarm

The suggestions I posted won’t get rid of Major Breach. Just remove its spammy and burst nature and give it specific utility depending on your staff type. You could even have it as a group benefit. Allowing for three separate instances of the debuff for trials.

sleepy_worm

On the other hand, it's fine as is.

Sarannah

Recently made a new IA build with this skill... why is it PvP always wants something nerfed, even when it is not overpowered. Something will always be somewhat stronger than something else or something will always counter something else, and in this case the skill is available to everyone. This skill is not overpowered or even too strong, and even if it was, everyone has access to the destruction staff skillline.

Stop the darn nerfs just for PvP's sake, it is destroying the gameplay in many ways. And already has in many ways. Balancing is a waste of dev time, I'd rather they focus on new content. If something is broken fix it, otherwise leave it be!

Having builds destroyed over and over because of PvP nerfs is demoralizing. If ZOS keeps nerfing, they should grant everyone the maximum amount of armory builds for free and remove transmute costs from reconstruction. So players can more easily adjust to the constant changes. Otherwise, don't touch anything that isn't broken.

Balance is impossible to achieve, stop asking for this!

PS: I still miss the iconic sorc skill crystal fragments that had an aoe and knockback. Also miss the original Hatchling's shell set(still want this back!), and all other tank nerfs also hit me hard every patch.

TheDarkRuler

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Yeah, this skill has gotta go.

What has to go is that mentality. The nerfs all for the sake of "balance" in PVP are crippling PVE aspects of the game ever since. I like what @AcadianPaladin wrote above that if it is a PVP issue, they should just balance it with Battle Spirit.

Major_Mangle

100% agree. Elemental susceptibility has been due an adjustment for a very long time. The skill shouldn´t be free with how much free damage and utility it offers. It´s overtuned in both PvP and PvE. My suggestion to rework the skill is to:

#1 - Give it a cost
#2 - Make it so the skill only apply the corresponding status effect depending on what weapon you´re using while casting the skill. You use a fire staff you apply burning, you use an ice staff you apply chilled and if you use a lightning staff you apply concussion. In return have the effect apply more often than every 7,5 seconds.

And to respond to those in the thread complaining about "Hurr durr PvP ruining the game once again", shouldn´t things be adjusted in PvE if it´s too strong or do you just want the powercreep to spiral out of control to the point where all content becomes trivial? Majority of nerfs/changes to skills and sets throughout the years are due to their behavior in PvE anyway, not PvP. I´m however fine with ZOS not separating balance between PvP/PvE (doesn´t mean I agree with all the changes), but lets not pretend the "big bad PvP community" is to blame for most of the in-game adjustments.

Sarannah

Major_Mangle wrote: »

And to respond to those in the thread complaining about "Hurr durr PvP ruining the game once again", shouldn´t things be adjusted in PvE if it´s too strong or do you just want the powercreep to spiral out of control to the point where all content becomes trivial? Majority of nerfs/changes to skills and sets throughout the years are due to their behavior in PvE anyway, not PvP. I´m however fine with ZOS not separating balance between PvP/PvE (doesn´t mean I agree with all the changes), but lets not pretend the "big bad PvP community" is to blame for most of the in-game adjustments.

It is 99 out of a 100 times PvP nerfs ruining PvE. Personally I do not care about powercreep at all, only if something is really broken should it be adjusted. Balance is impossible unless ZOS makes all skills the exact same, which is basically already happening due to the constant calls for nerfs. Sucking the fun out of the game and classes.
Personally I actually think powercreep is good for the game. The more players who can do endgame, the healthier and happier the entire game's population.

Thinking everyone likes to take a nerfhammer on the head again and again like it's Whack-a-Mole, isn't the case. I'd rather my builds stay intact, I'd rather have fun, I'd rather have unique abilities, I'd rather have a healthy endgame population.

PS: PvPers will never stop calling for 'balance'. Because in their minds if someone defeats them, it must be a balance issue. Not accepting reality where the other player may just be better, or has a build that simply counters theirs.

Poss

Major_Mangle wrote: »

And to respond to those in the thread complaining about "Hurr durr PvP ruining the game once again", shouldn´t things be adjusted in PvE if it´s too strong or do you just want the powercreep to spiral out of control to the point where all content becomes trivial? Majority of nerfs/changes to skills and sets throughout the years are due to their behavior in PvE anyway, not PvP.

Thank you! Someone finally spitting facts.
• Plaguebreak (a hugely popular set in PvP) was nerfed to ground because people were using it to cheese ad pulls in PvE
• Same with Azureblight
• Lightning staffs had their passives majorly overhauled because people were cheesing trial trifectas on one bar sorcs

People are now cheesing IA by using ele sus as a spammable by combining it with a single over powered vision often resetting the instance if they don’t get said vision so yes this skill should also receive the same treatment

freespirit

Poss wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

And to respond to those in the thread complaining about "Hurr durr PvP ruining the game once again", shouldn´t things be adjusted in PvE if it´s too strong or do you just want the powercreep to spiral out of control to the point where all content becomes trivial? Majority of nerfs/changes to skills and sets throughout the years are due to their behavior in PvE anyway, not PvP.

Thank you! Someone finally spitting facts.
• Plaguebreak (a hugely popular set in PvP) was nerfed to ground because people were using it to cheese ad pulls in PvE
• Same with Azureblight
• Lightning staffs had their passives majorly overhauled because people were cheesing trial trifectas on one bar sorcs

People are now cheesing IA by using ele sus as a spammable by combining it with a single over powered vision often resetting the instance if they don’t get said vision so yes this skill should also receive the same treatment

As I said above I use this skill, my builds are one bar and I have arthritis, however I have no objection to a cost being added.

I do question how many people are actually "cheesing" IA by using it???

I run IA and rarely see the vision that works well with it, very rarely!!

I do not have time to reset my runs if I don't see it and even if I did, who on earth is being adversely affected by that??

Poss

freespirit wrote: »

I do question how many people are actually "cheesing" IA by using it???

The fact that every single YouTube build suggest running this combination I’m assuming a lot.

freespirit

Poss wrote: »

freespirit wrote: »

I do question how many people are actually "cheesing" IA by using it???

The fact that every single YouTube build suggest running this combination I’m assuming a lot.

So all the guides suggest running it, ofc as I said, first you have to get the vision!

I do the daily every day on two accounts, my lower CP account I just do the first Tho'at fight, my main account I go as far as I can be bothered to, often leaving with 4 lives intact due to boredom......

I cannot remember the last time I saw that vision!

So whilst it may be prominently suggested, the actual reality may differ widely.

There are always going to be "cheese" builds, it is human nature to ask "what if?"

What annoys me is the constant crying for nerfs and having been around here for a while, I have to say, you get to recognise names and realise people who PVP a lot, feature prominently in many of these nerf threads! 😕

Poss

freespirit wrote: »

What annoys me is the constant crying for nerfs and having been around here for a while, I have to say, you get to recognise names and realise people who PVP a lot, feature prominently in many of these nerf threads! 😕

Something that genuinely is overpowered and overtuned, yes it’s natural to request reworks.

Also slightly off topic but if you’re using ele sus for its breach duration due to mobility issues, I’d suggest using the other morph. Lasts 60 seconds rather than 30

pklemming

All the nerfs the game has had, and people are calling for more nerfs. What is wrong with you? You really want less players in game than there already is?

How about getting the broken stuff fixed before calling for a nerf.

valenwood_vegan

Sure, give it a cost. Start small.

Beyond that, nerf it into the ground in pvp for all I care. Give the status effect application "against monsters" treatment or something if it's a problem.

Doesn't need a rework that will give it effects that are useless except for a few specific builds and classes.

Enough with the daily nerf everything threads. There are already so many useless sets and skills. For every heavy-handed nerf, average players are turned off while the top 1% find some way to adjust... something else becomes "best", and then that has to be nerfed too. The kind of balance being sought will never be achieved until there are no skills or sets or classes remaining that anyone actually wants to use.

Soarora

I’d be fine if it has a cost, it’s weird it doesn’t have one.

YandereGirlfriend

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Yeah, this skill has gotta go.

What has to go is that mentality. The nerfs all for the sake of "balance" in PVP are crippling PVE aspects of the game ever since. I like what @AcadianPaladin wrote above that if it is a PVP issue, they should just balance it with Battle Spirit.

NOT talking about PvP. It is very obviously OP in its current form for PvE.

ESO_player123

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Yeah, this skill has gotta go.

What has to go is that mentality. The nerfs all for the sake of "balance" in PVP are crippling PVE aspects of the game ever since. I like what @AcadianPaladin wrote above that if it is a PVP issue, they should just balance it with Battle Spirit.

NOT talking about PvP. It is very obviously OP in its current form for PvE.

Yet the OP explicitly talks about PvP (just like 99% of threads requesting nerfs of various kind).