Bethesda employees came out to protest against Microsoft

LikiLoki

Hundreds of employees of the company went on strike against the monster that swallowed them. We would like to learn more from the official representatives of the game about their requirements, how we, the players, can support the creators
of our beloved universe and how this will affect the near future.

Pelanora

Reference? Link?

Syldras

https://www.gamedeveloper.com/production/zenimax-union-workers-strike-in-protest-of-microsoft-remote-work-and-outsourcing-policies

wilykcat

I saw that one, my friend sent me a DM about it. I'm surprised by this. 😲

Soraka

Interesting thanks for sharing

Theist_VII

Clicked on the link, and as a great surprise to no one, Microsoft is outsourcing QA work for games like ESO, and about a year after the Quality Assurance team unionized in an effort to protect their positions.

When you buy a product, and invest in it, you expect better results, not to have the most gamebreaking disgusting bugs we’ve been seeing since High Isle.

MULTIPLE block bugs, siege not disappearing, infinite crux, mythic AoE instant-kill exploit, server planemeld, invisible mounts… ect.

[snip]

[Edit for Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation]

There was no Conspiracy Theory or Misinformation, quit looking for a reason to remove negative feedback. QA has been failing us for years now.

Syldras

Would be interesting to know whether they outsourced customer service, too. We already speculated whether some wrongful bans might have happened due to the responsible people not having a sufficient grasp of (colloquial) English.

Theist_VII

Theist_VII wrote: »

Clicked on the link, and as a great surprise to no one, Microsoft is outsourcing QA work for games like ESO, and about a year after the Quality Assurance team unionized in an effort to protect their positions.

When you buy a product, and invest in it, you expect better results, not to have the most gamebreaking disgusting bugs we’ve been seeing since High Isle.

MULTIPLE block bugs, siege not disappearing, infinite crux, mythic AoE instant-kill exploit, server planemeld, invisible mounts… ect.

[snip]

[Edit for Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation]

How is what I wrote a conspiracy theory? The snipped section was a description of what happens when you fail to meet a job requirement.
You get fired.

What’s the conspiracy here?

“At any other work place, if you repeatedly fail to do your job, in the case of QA, failing to insure the quality of a product, you get called into management and get fired/replaced.”

This is what was snipped, I want a public apology as this is a clear attempt at over-moderation.

Theist_VII

Hello? And are we going to pretend that @KromedeTheCorrupt said anything worth revoking their forum privileges too?

What’s going on here? @ZOS_Kevin
Realistic feedback/opinions/interpretations no-longer allowed here? Only rainbows and sunshine?

Theist_VII

KromedeTheCorrupt wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Clicked on the link, and as a great surprise to no one, Microsoft is outsourcing QA work for games like ESO, and about a year after the Quality Assurance team unionized in an effort to protect their positions.

When you buy a product, and invest in it, you expect better results, not to have the most gamebreaking disgusting bugs we’ve been seeing since High Isle.

MULTIPLE block bugs, siege not disappearing, infinite crux, mythic AoE instant-kill exploit, server planemeld, invisible mounts… ect.

[snip]

[Edit for Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation]

There was no Conspiracy Theory or Misinformation, quit looking for a reason to remove negative feedback. QA has been failing us for years now.

Mine got removed entirely haha

Yeah I saw that, and was drafting a response to it as you posted. What’s going on around here lately? 😂

@ZOS_Kevin if this is a topic that you guys don’t want people commenting on, then lock the thread.

tsaescishoeshiner

Theist_VII wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Clicked on the link, and as a great surprise to no one, Microsoft is outsourcing QA work for games like ESO, and about a year after the Quality Assurance team unionized in an effort to protect their positions.

When you buy a product, and invest in it, you expect better results, not to have the most gamebreaking disgusting bugs we’ve been seeing since High Isle.

MULTIPLE block bugs, siege not disappearing, infinite crux, mythic AoE instant-kill exploit, server planemeld, invisible mounts… ect.

[snip]

[Edit for Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation]

How is what I wrote a conspiracy theory? The snipped section was a description of what happens when you fail to meet a job requirement.
You get fired.

What’s the conspiracy here?

“At any other work place, if you repeatedly fail to do your job, in the case of QA, failing to insure the quality of a product, you get called into management and get fired/replaced.”

This is what was snipped, I want a public apology as this is a clear attempt at over-moderation.

The conspiracy was speculation that what was described in your comment was happening here. If I say, "Sometimes companies go bankrupt," that's true, but it becomes a conspiracy when I state that on a company's forums to obviously imply that they're going bankrupt because of news they posted.

We don't know what effect organizing had on employee's productivity, or what management decisions have been made, or what's in the contract, etc etc so that makes it all speculative. Plus, some people have pointed out what they saw as QA issues for years before this.

Personally, I'd rather this thread stay open, if possible.

Reddit's a bit better for discussions like that, but I'm not sure how the volunteer mods are for the ESO one. Usually it's a better place for gossip and speculation, especially about behind-the-scenes stuff. But you also get people speculating way beyond the facts we have over there lol.

Theist_VII

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Clicked on the link, and as a great surprise to no one, Microsoft is outsourcing QA work for games like ESO, and about a year after the Quality Assurance team unionized in an effort to protect their positions.

When you buy a product, and invest in it, you expect better results, not to have the most gamebreaking disgusting bugs we’ve been seeing since High Isle.

MULTIPLE block bugs, siege not disappearing, infinite crux, mythic AoE instant-kill exploit, server planemeld, invisible mounts… ect.

[snip]

[Edit for Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation]

How is what I wrote a conspiracy theory? The snipped section was a description of what happens when you fail to meet a job requirement.
You get fired.

What’s the conspiracy here?

“At any other work place, if you repeatedly fail to do your job, in the case of QA, failing to insure the quality of a product, you get called into management and get fired/replaced.”

This is what was snipped, I want a public apology as this is a clear attempt at over-moderation.

The conspiracy was speculation that what was described in your comment was happening here. If I say, "Sometimes companies go bankrupt," that's true, but it becomes a conspiracy when I state that on a company's forums to obviously imply that they're going bankrupt because of news they posted.

We don't know what effect organizing had on employee's productivity, or what management decisions have been made, or what's in the contract, etc etc so that makes it all speculative. Plus, some people have pointed out what they saw as QA issues for years before this.

Personally, I'd rather this thread stay open, if possible.

Reddit's a bit better for discussions like that, but I'm not sure how the volunteer mods are for the ESO one. Usually it's a better place for gossip and speculation, especially about behind-the-scenes stuff. But you also get people speculating way beyond the facts we have over there lol.

The quoted section is not a conspiracy, it’s what happens when a job isn’t fulfilled, NOTHING to do with ZOS QA specifically, but the task QA departments as a whole are paid to meet, and what happens at other businesses when those tasks are not met.

MasterSpatula

To be fair here, I'd like to point out that the QA team's job is to find bugs, not to fix them. That falls back on the devs.

Considering the absolute fiasco that is literally every PTS cycle, the absolutely astonishing number of bug reports that are never acknowledged, never addressed, and are released to disastrous result, are y'all sure you really want to blame the QA team for what can clearly be seen as a pattern of behavior by the devs?

It's possible the QA team is shockingly, unimaginably incompetent. But it certainly seems more likely that the people ignoring us also ignore them.

Theist_VII

MasterSpatula wrote: »

To be fair here, I'd like to point out that the QA team's job is to find bugs, not to fix them. That falls back on the devs.

Considering the absolute fiasco that is literally every PTS cycle, the absolutely astonishing number of bug reports that are never acknowledged, never addressed, and are released to disastrous result, are y'all sure you really want to blame the QA team for what can clearly be seen as a pattern of behavior by the devs?

It's possible the QA team is shockingly, unimaginably incompetent. But it certainly seems more likely that the people ignoring us also ignore them.

That is a fair point.

Maybe I just don’t want to believe a bug like being unable to block, or being unable to remove siege weapons, having a dev-kit style instant-kill mythic, or carrying over 3600cp and an infinite bag of loot to live servers would be something that they deem live-ready.

Perhaps invisible mounts might not have been at the top of the “emergency fix” list.

ArchangelIsraphel

I'll take "Things That Make You Go Hmmm" for 500, Alex.

alternatelder

Why do some threads unrelated to ESO get taken down, but this one stays? Take it down if it's not discussing the game. It just leads to conspiracy theories and other nonsense.

I_killed_Vivec

No conspiracy here!

Outsourcing QA while at the same time demanding a return to the office does seem a bit perverse...

I'm facing it myself, during the various lockdowns of the Covid years bosses found that they really weren't needed. Well-organized, highly motivated employees just got on with the job - without constant oversight. Productivity did not suffer... so what is middle management for?

Better get the workers back to the office quick so that bosses can look busy ensuring that employees (now grumpy and less productive) are busy (not busy) sitting at their desks.

And the excuse? So that workers can benefit from those random water-cooler/coffee machine chance meetings that magically revolutionize how the company does its business. Given the RNG that ZoS implements that ain't going to happen.

Theist_VII

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

No conspiracy here!

It’s actually insane that we have to preface anything we write in this thread with this sentence.

I_killed_Vivec

Theist_VII wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

No conspiracy here!

It’s actually insane that we have to preface anything we write in this thread with this sentence.

I might have been lying...

Nerouyn

Theist_VII wrote: »

When you buy a product, and invest in it, you expect better results, not to have the most gamebreaking disgusting bugs we’ve been seeing since High Isle.

Anyone familiar with my posts in these forums know that I'm of the view that generally the single player games are superior to and obviously far more popular than ESO.

But those single player games are kind of notorious for being bug riddled. Some of those bugs I suspect are deliberate for the sake of allowing players the fantasy of god-like power.

Others however are just plain broken. Skyrim's enchanting is still bugged and it's at the engine level. The only fix requires SKSE. Or use of the console.

No I'm not talking about the enchanting / alchemy loop. I'm talking about not being able to recharge weapons you've enchanted because the game doesn't save that data properly for weapons you make yourself.

Skyrim has been released seven times, updated many more times and still, this bug.

So I don't know that people would expect ESO to be bug free.

In my experience ESO is pretty good on this front. One time years ago I got stuck on a main quest for several months because a lever was placed too high for male bosmer characters to reach but that's the worst of it.

Nerouyn

Theist_VII wrote: »

How is what I wrote a conspiracy theory? The snipped section was a description of what happens when you fail to meet a job requirement.
You get fired.

Yeah, maybe sometimes.

But I've seen others repeatedly and consistently fail upwards literally to the pinnacle of their professions.

Caligamy_ESO

Careful.. discussion of moderation is against the forum rules..

Nerouyn

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Outsourcing QA while at the same time demanding a return to the office does seem a bit perverse...

Most of the world seems to be doing the return to office thing.

There seemed to be intense interest in rushing in the other direction on the heels of COVID forcing a lot of work from home but the winds changed.

I kind of wonder if Facebook's attempt to stake its claim on the emerging metaverse with their name change had something to with that.

CrazyKitty

Theist_VII wrote: »

Clicked on the link, and as a great surprise to no one, Microsoft is outsourcing QA work for games like ESO, and about a year after the Quality Assurance team unionized in an effort to protect their positions.

When you buy a product, and invest in it, you expect better results, not to have the most gamebreaking disgusting bugs we’ve been seeing since High Isle.

MULTIPLE block bugs, siege not disappearing, infinite crux, mythic AoE instant-kill exploit, server planemeld, invisible mounts… ect.

[snip]

[Edit for Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation]

There was no Conspiracy Theory or Misinformation, quit looking for a reason to remove negative feedback. QA has been failing us for years now.

An awesome for you!

Factual feedback, negative or not, does not constitute a conspiracy, baiting, trolling, bashing or anything else. It's just factual feedback and should be embraced as such.

CrazyKitty

Nerouyn wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

How is what I wrote a conspiracy theory? The snipped section was a description of what happens when you fail to meet a job requirement.
You get fired.

Yeah, maybe sometimes.

But I've seen others repeatedly and consistently fail upwards literally to the pinnacle of their professions.

I can think of one very notable example myself, and it's very bad for everyone.

Elsonso

Theist_VII wrote: »

QA has been failing us for years now.

Honestly, after working in QA in a past life, I am going to disagree. QA is usually OK. When there are bugs, I often credit the people who decide what to fix, not the people who find the stuff that needs fixing.

Theist_VII

Elsonso wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

QA has been failing us for years now.

Honestly, after working in QA in a past life, I am going to disagree. QA is usually OK. When there are bugs, I often credit the people who decide what to fix, not the people who find the stuff that needs fixing.

You’re telling me, that the server planemeld was caught by QA and reported or that the anniversary event wasn’t even tested?

How about when our core combat skill, Block, wasn’t working for an entire patch?

ESO_player123

Theist_VII wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

QA has been failing us for years now.

Honestly, after working in QA in a past life, I am going to disagree. QA is usually OK. When there are bugs, I often credit the people who decide what to fix, not the people who find the stuff that needs fixing.

You’re telling me, that the server planemeld was caught by QA and reported or that the anniversary event wasn’t even tested?

How about when our core combat skill, Block, wasn’t working for an entire patch?

I do not think Planetmeld has anything to do with the QA. From what I gathered about this situation that was a technical issue, not a bug (like same database used for both live and testing servers).

Theist_VII

ESO_player123 wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

QA has been failing us for years now.

Honestly, after working in QA in a past life, I am going to disagree. QA is usually OK. When there are bugs, I often credit the people who decide what to fix, not the people who find the stuff that needs fixing.

You’re telling me, that the server planemeld was caught by QA and reported or that the anniversary event wasn’t even tested?

How about when our core combat skill, Block, wasn’t working for an entire patch?

I do not think Planetmeld has anything to do with the QA. From what I gathered about this situation that was a technical issue, not a bug (like same database used for both live and testing servers).

Every game decision made should be tested by QA, most importantly, patch releases.

Before servers are re-opened to the public, they need to be tested, and to ZOS’s credit, for the most part they are. It just so happened that nobody got on PTS and then switched over to Live before maintenance was done, otherwise it would have been extended.

Jaraal

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

No conspiracy here!

Outsourcing QA while at the same time demanding a return to the office does seem a bit perverse...

I'm facing it myself, during the various lockdowns of the Covid years bosses found that they really weren't needed. Well-organized, highly motivated employees just got on with the job - without constant oversight. Productivity did not suffer... so what is middle management for?

Better get the workers back to the office quick so that bosses can look busy ensuring that employees (now grumpy and less productive) are busy (not busy) sitting at their desks.

And the excuse? So that workers can benefit from those random water-cooler/coffee machine chance meetings that magically revolutionize how the company does its business. Given the RNG that ZoS implements that ain't going to happen.

And yet the studio director specifically stated that work from home was negatively impacting "team (both dev and QA) cohesion" and creating "errors and problems of various types."


https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/59387

Muizer

@Theist_VII do you have any info that Microsoft's move to outsource QA had anything at all to do with the performance of QA? I mean 9 times out of 10 .............. well let's be realistic 99 times out of 100 outsourcing is about cutting cost and the people doing it know and accept (but don't say out loud) that it means that the quality of the work that will get done is going to go down even harder than the cost. I truly cannot imagine anyone would think outsourcing QA would lead to better QA. It's going to be worse. It always is.

Ignore everything below this line