What if there was a 5-piece set that could automatically revive Companions?

Erickson9610

One of the common complaints that players have with Companion combat is that they usually end up dead on the ground somewhere when fighting dangerous enemies. Even the best of Companion builds can't survive certain enemies, such as dragons and certain Infinite Archive bosses, due to factors like harmful ground AoEs or damage over time effects (or being knocked off the edge of the platform in the Infinite Archive). Of course, the player can manually revive their Companion, but why would they do that if the Companion is just going to die again a few seconds later?


To take the micromanagement out of having to revive our Companions during drawn-out battles, I think that there should be a craftable 5-piece item set, akin to Telvanni Efficiency, which would revive them automatically, perhaps up to once every minute. Maybe even shorter, like once every 20 seconds, if it's deemed inconsequential that Companions should be able to revive automatically with this set.

Or, maybe instead of outright reviving them, it could apply a large damage shield to them when under 25% Health, similar to what the Phoenix set now does. That is very similar to the Companion Restoration Staff skill "Mystic Fortress", but I find that Companions usually die before they're reliably able to cast that ability on themselves.


Regardless, one underappreciated aspect of Telvanni Efficiency is that it has a separate 5-piece bonus for when you do not have a living Companion, which includes both when the Companion is dead and when you don't have an active Companion. Since this set idea is to automatically revive the Companion, a preferable distinction would be to specify having an active Companion, rather than a living one. So, there could be a similar bonus for players without a Companion, like a damage shield granted to the player when taking damage under 25% Health.

So, to reiterate, I think a good 5-piece craftable set would look like the following:

• 2 pieces: Maximum Stamina
• 3 pieces: Maximum Health
• 4 pieces: Maximum Magicka
• 5 pieces: While you have an active Companion, automatically revive the Companion up to once every x seconds. While you do not have an active Companion, when you take damage while under y% Health, gain a damage shield for z seconds.

Thoriorz

I personally wouldn't trade my current set for my build for a set that revives a companion, it's not worth it in my opinion.
But I would like to see some change because yes, as you write, on some bosses etc companions don't have much chance of survival.
Maybe when reviving a companion reduce the revive time + can't the revive process be interrupted by an attack? Maybe this change will help little?

prof-dracko

Not every set needs to be endgame level, and this might be a useful idea for newer players who actively rely on the extra damage and protection a companion might offer.

TaSheen

Well, we already have the bear which has a morph to auto-revive. Maybe they could do something similar for companions.

Neugeniko

Better not teach people that revives happen automatically, they'll carry bad habits later into the game.

AcadianPaladin

I've certainly no objections to such a 5 piece bonus.

That said, I've little trouble keeping my companion alive and would never trade out the two 5 piece bonuses I have from my current pair of sets.

I love companions but I want my 5 piece bonuses to be of significant help all the time, not just under 'once in a while' circumstances. My current 5 piece bonuses, for example, are Major Breach and Major Courage - on all the time and nicely complement the full time bonuses I get from Oakensoul.

o_Primate_o

No. Set up your companions for various fights (one healer, one tank, one range dps, one melee dps, etc.) as you would yourself. depending on the boss, change which companion you use. i rarely have trouble keeping companions alive when soloing any world boss, even DLC world bosses. ALWAYS slot your companion a self heal or AOE HOT or lay down you own AOE HOT under a companion.

DenverRalphy

Or... you could treat your companion like any other member of the group and toss them a heal or two while they're fighting for you. The occasional damage shield when needed goes a long way too.

Companions aren't supposed to be self sufficient. If you want them to play a non-support role for you, then you become the support role.

ikillforskooma

Only in pve, please xD

DenverRalphy

ikillforskooma wrote: »

Only in pve, please xD

Given that Companions can't be used in PvP, that's probaby a given.

Erickson9610

DenverRalphy wrote: »

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ikillforskooma wrote: »

Only in pve, please xD

Given that Companions can't be used in PvP, that's probaby a given.

Companions also generally aren't used in 4-man Dungeons/Arenas, solo Arenas, or 12-man Trials. The only spaces that Companions have a real impact are in Overland and the Infinite Archive — and even if your Companion revives before you do, they won't attack enemies until you're alive, too.

Theist_VII

Or, hear me out, they should just reduce the revive time for all companions in general.

kyle.wilson

TaSheen wrote: »

Well, we already have the bear which has a morph to auto-revive. Maybe they could do something similar for companions.

I use the bear on my pve trials warden and it almost never dies. So I've never seen reason to use that morph.

I_killed_Vivec

Erickson9610 wrote: »

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DenverRalphy wrote: »

ikillforskooma wrote: »

Only in pve, please xD

Given that Companions can't be used in PvP, that's probaby a given.

Companions also generally aren't used in 4-man Dungeons/Arenas, solo Arenas, or 12-man Trials. The only spaces that Companions have a real impact are in Overland and the Infinite Archive — and even if your Companion revives before you do, they won't attack enemies until you're alive, too.

A lot of people say they use companions to enable them to "solo" 4 man dungeons (usually with an oakensorc pet build).

SkaiFaith

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

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Erickson9610 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

ikillforskooma wrote: »

Only in pve, please xD

Given that Companions can't be used in PvP, that's probaby a given.

Companions also generally aren't used in 4-man Dungeons/Arenas, solo Arenas, or 12-man Trials. The only spaces that Companions have a real impact are in Overland and the Infinite Archive — and even if your Companion revives before you do, they won't attack enemies until you're alive, too.

A lot of people say they use companions to enable them to "solo" 4 man dungeons (usually with an oakensorc pet build).

And to add to that, there are also duos of players that take 2 companions into 4men-Dungeons; it occasionally happened to me.

fizzylu

I still prefer the idea of companions just getting knocked down and getting back up after awhile on their own, seems reasonable considering they don't know how to walk out of AOEs and react to some other mechanics.

SkaiFaith

fizzylu wrote: »

I still prefer the idea of companions just getting knocked down and getting back up after awhile on they're own, seems reasonable considering they don't know how to walk out of AOEs and react to some other mechanics.

This sounds doable too but ideally it would include a period of grace, immunity, otherwise you could wait for them to get up and they would be down immediately while still getting up 'cause of some one-shot.

TaSheen

kyle.wilson wrote: »

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TaSheen wrote: »

Well, we already have the bear which has a morph to auto-revive. Maybe they could do something similar for companions.

I use the bear on my pve trials warden and it almost never dies. So I've never seen reason to use that morph.

Me either. But the morph IS available.

Alaztor91

I would rather have ZOS improve their NPC AI instead of offering band-aid solutions, especially if they plan on adding new Companions every year.

Last time I checked Companions don't attempt to block the Dragon ''Chomp'' Heavy Attack, and that was usually the main cause of death. I have to assume this is some kind of bug since they attempt to block pretty much every other NPC Heavy Attack in the game.

For ground DoTs they could make Companions automatically roll away if they lose more than 25% of their max health in less than X seconds when taking ground DoT damage. They would alternate the directions of the dodges so for example first roll would be to the right, second one to the left, etc. so they don't end up resetting encounters.

Taril

kyle.wilson wrote: »

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TaSheen wrote: »

Well, we already have the bear which has a morph to auto-revive. Maybe they could do something similar for companions.

I use the bear on my pve trials warden and it almost never dies. So I've never seen reason to use that morph.

IIRC, pets are immune to most damage in dungeons/trials and the like so they only die to certain effects in them.

Meanwhile, in overland they do take damage from everything and can die pretty easily (Though mostly only notable while low level/CP so things take time to actually kill). Easy enough to justify the morph? No, but it exists (And seems oddly popular from what I've seen)

Erickson9610 wrote: »

To take the micromanagement out of having to revive our Companions during drawn-out battles, I think that there should be a craftable 5-piece item set, akin to Telvanni Efficiency, which would revive them automatically, perhaps up to once every minute. Maybe even shorter, like once every 20 seconds, if it's deemed inconsequential that Companions should be able to revive automatically with this set.

While I have no qualms about something like Telvanni Efficiency...

I'd rather they actually fix companions baseline rather than require a 5 pc set to get a game feature to function as intended.

Like, companions can already see when the player is standing in stuff (As it triggers their voiceline for it) and they can see when a heavy attack is being aimed in their direction (Since that triggers them to block). I don't see why it's not possible to have companions dodge roll out of AoEs targeted on themselves.

Or failing that (If for whatever reason that is technically infeasable), just slap permanent Minor and Major Avoidance on companions so when they inevitably stand in the fire, they at least take considerably less damage from it.

Having companions die so easily to basically any content that might make someone consider getting aid from a companion is kind of silly.

Ilsabet

I think this is a pretty rad idea. Yes, it would be preferable for companions to be programmed not to stand in stupid, and the set would have a niche use that most people wouldn't consider worth losing a better set effect, but it would be there for people who value their companions enough to use it, and it wouldn't hurt anybody who didn't want to use it.

Tommy_The_Gun

5 items: When your companion health bar reaches 0, instead of dying they are fully healed. This effect can occur every... oh, never mind, they are dead anyway...

XD

Edit:
Yeah, I mean... what is the amount of seconds you would give to this set ? 5 ? or 7 ? Or maybe less ? Companions are not very smart. They tend to "stand in stupid" (AOE) far too much. It seems like this is their favourite activity.

In order for this set to work, it would need to have close to no cool-down. Otherwise you would be wasting this set for 90% of times. On the other hand, with set like this you could set up a companion for a DPS and they would be kinda immortal. So I am not sure what to think about this. Imagine for example how this would work in 12 man trial as it could be easily used to prevent wipes or something.

Erickson9610

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

In order for this set to work, it would need to have close to no cool-down. Otherwise you would be wasting this set for 90% of times. On the other hand, with set like this you could set up a companion for a DPS and they would be kinda immortal. So I am not sure what to think about this. Imagine for example how this would work in 12 man trial as it could be easily used to prevent wipes or something.

The Companion doesn't fight without their player still being alive. If the player dies, the Companion falls to ground and mourns the player's death — so I don't see how it'd be possible to prevent wipes using Companions when you're essentially making it easier to wipe by having fewer players.

katanagirl1

Erickson9610 wrote: »

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Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

In order for this set to work, it would need to have close to no cool-down. Otherwise you would be wasting this set for 90% of times. On the other hand, with set like this you could set up a companion for a DPS and they would be kinda immortal. So I am not sure what to think about this. Imagine for example how this would work in 12 man trial as it could be easily used to prevent wipes or something.

The Companion doesn't fight without their player still being alive. If the player dies, the Companion falls to ground and mourns the player's death — so I don't see how it'd be possible to prevent wipes using Companions when you're essentially making it easier to wipe by having fewer players.

When running IA group dungeons with the hubby, sometimes if I die but he is still alive my Bastian will keep fighting.

EDIT: oops not IA but group dungeons

Recent

It is annoying how they drop dead like potatoes, except my tanks one when I heal him he survives. He's a dk.
Maybe some of them can have a couple of instant rez and they rez with half their health after 5 secs on first death and then perhaps they insta rez after 10 secs with 1/4 of their health the second death. I'm not sure of logistics just a rough idea.

Something else I would like improved is our companios' inability to do the challenges in infinate archive. We are supposed to be a duo team yet they don't help in any way with the extra challenges. I forget what they are called. One you get turned into a goat and the butcher chases you and you gotta eat the sweet rolls...another one you use levers to cross to the other side..my companion just stands there and doesnt help.

Erickson9610

katanagirl1 wrote: »

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Erickson9610 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

In order for this set to work, it would need to have close to no cool-down. Otherwise you would be wasting this set for 90% of times. On the other hand, with set like this you could set up a companion for a DPS and they would be kinda immortal. So I am not sure what to think about this. Imagine for example how this would work in 12 man trial as it could be easily used to prevent wipes or something.

The Companion doesn't fight without their player still being alive. If the player dies, the Companion falls to ground and mourns the player's death — so I don't see how it'd be possible to prevent wipes using Companions when you're essentially making it easier to wipe by having fewer players.

When running IA group dungeons with the hubby, sometimes if I die but he is still alive my Bastian will keep fighting.

EDIT: oops not IA but group dungeons

In that case, a mixed group of Companions and players needs all of the players to die before the encounter will reset. Since Companions won't keep the encounter going if all players have died (and Companions can't resurrect anyone) it should be inconsequential to allow Companions to be automatically revived, especially if a player gives up a 5-piece set for that bonus.

UntilValhalla13

Just have them not die, like every other quest npc. It's not like they're really contributing much aside from morale support

PrincessOfThieves

I personally wouldn't use a 5 pc set just to support a companion. I tried to play around with that one Necrom set that reduces their cooldowns, and honestly it's not worth it. Using a set that gives you stats and slotting something to heal the companion is much more efficient.
I think they should just make it so that companions take reduced aoe damage, like in the Inifinte Archive. That would compensate for their dumb AI without making them immortal.

katanagirl1

Erickson9610 wrote: »

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katanagirl1 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

In order for this set to work, it would need to have close to no cool-down. Otherwise you would be wasting this set for 90% of times. On the other hand, with set like this you could set up a companion for a DPS and they would be kinda immortal. So I am not sure what to think about this. Imagine for example how this would work in 12 man trial as it could be easily used to prevent wipes or something.

The Companion doesn't fight without their player still being alive. If the player dies, the Companion falls to ground and mourns the player's death — so I don't see how it'd be possible to prevent wipes using Companions when you're essentially making it easier to wipe by having fewer players.

When running IA group dungeons with the hubby, sometimes if I die but he is still alive my Bastian will keep fighting.

EDIT: oops not IA but group dungeons

In that case, a mixed group of Companions and players needs all of the players to die before the encounter will reset. Since Companions won't keep the encounter going if all players have died (and Companions can't resurrect anyone) it should be inconsequential to allow Companions to be automatically revived, especially if a player gives up a 5-piece set for that bonus.

Yes, that was my point.

Perhaps instead of a full soul gem revive with the circle filling, we could get a quick 2 button synergy instead to revive them. At least on console, we do the triangle and circle button synergy for other things.

prof-dracko

There's a lot of "I personally won't use it therefore it shouldn't exist at all" going around. Some gear can be aimed at newer players. That's a good thing.

Rowjoh

If there's an auto revive function, then why bother to spec anything properly?

It would be lazy and counter intuitive to everything that an RPG stands for.

Doing a little basic research and building towards making a companion strong and powerful is what you should be striving for.

There are plenty of builds out there that make companions almost unkillable in vet content, Infinite Archive etc, let alone the easy content !