Necrostatistics, part two (YOURS opinion matter! To me, atleast)

necro_the_crafter

Are you having fun playing necro? I will much appreciate if you put your reasoining in the comments.

Turtle_Bot

Yes, for PvE its a decent class.

I've seen the necro struggles in PvP, but for PvE, I've been having fun with it as a healer and also as a tank for 4 man content.

I think if ZOS could just tidy up the awkwardness of the skills and corpse mechanic it could also be a very viable class for PvP as well.

If I had to make a list for this:

1. Fix blast bones AI (boney boy really needs to sober up).
2. Significantly speed up the projectile speed and cast animation of skulls so the ability becomes a reliable spammable.
3. Choose weather mage/archer are pets or DoTs and standardize the abilities (and relative passives) accordingly.
4. Make Grave Grasp an AoE around the caster (like talons) for at least 1 morph and the other morph that buffs pets does so on on cast, not aim reliant.
5. Remove self defile from burst heal, there's too many debuffs/statuses already for that to be needed anymore, especially now that other class's burst heals (and scribing) have caught up in raw healing power/secondary effects.
6. Give tethers a self tether option (maybe on a toggle?) so they can be used at range (but break on LoS) or toggled to be an AoE DoT around the necro.
7. It seems like they are (mostly) trying to improve corpse gen, so keep up with that.
8. This one is more of a wish thing, but change the blast bones morph of res ult to cost half (170 instead of 335) but only summons the blast bones and does not res allies.

In terms of power level of skills, a lot of them feel close, so maybe have the small bonuses they give, have their current bonus as a baseline but that bonus doubles if there is a corpse nearby.

e.g. restoring tether currently increases healing done by 3% while slotted:
Change this to increases healing done by 3% while slotted and grants an additional 3% if there is a corpse nearby.

So while slotted, it's 3% then if also 1 corpse is nearby then it increases by 3% for a total of 6% increased healing done.

This would be applied to all the unique bonuses on abilities that are slotted and would help make up for a lot of the named buffs necro is lacking in its class kit.

I also haven't messed much with GLS so can't really comment on that, but tidying up the things outlined above would go a long way to helping necro feel better to play.

The important part (imo) is the first spoiler, addressing just how clunky/awkward the skills feel to use. They don't need a complete redesign like what ZOS did with GLS, but small things like fixing BB AI, skulls speed, tethers having a self tether option in the abilities themselves, etc.

Navaac223

No, I do mostly PvP and play other class.

Maybe you should add "I know it sucks in pvp but I still play it to make sure I'll be the best necro out there after the buffs coming in 2040"
The truth is that it's an easy way of convincing myself I only lost because it was a necro vs magsorc duel

Credible_Joe

Yes, its decent in PvP.

Maybe I'm just a dope that isn't paying attention to the nuances of balance, but I've never been one to attribute my wins or losses to my class. I switched from sorc to necro last year or so, and I don't feel like I struggle more or less after adjusting to the different playstyle.

Maybe people who have constantly played necro can feel a bigger difference with each patch, but as far as I can tell, class balance is only something that's relevant at the higher limits of the skill ceiling.

necro_the_crafter

Navaac223 wrote: »

Maybe you should add "I know it sucks in pvp but I still play it to make sure I'll be the best necro out there after the buffs coming in 2040"
The truth is that it's an easy way of convincing myself I only lost because it was a necro vs magsorc duel

Yeah I would then chose it myself. I also have a habit to doubt myself and other and think that there is some secret and actually is viable. Also my favourit thing about eso is tying out different builds, so on necro you rarely stuck to one specific build as they all are equally bad.

necro_the_crafter

Credible_Joe wrote: »

Maybe I'm just a dope that isn't paying attention to the nuances of balance, but I've never been one to attribute my wins or losses to my class. I switched from sorc to necro last year or so, and I don't feel like I struggle more or less after adjusting to the different playstyle.

Maybe people who have constantly played necro can feel a bigger difference with each patch, but as far as I can tell, class balance is only something that's relevant at the higher limits of the skill ceiling.

Are playing any other class in PvP right now? Every time i switch from necro ever so often I feel like I lowered PvP difficulty slider somwhere. And its not about wins or looses, its mainly how class is played. I mean, on sorc - if I cursed somone - he is gonna take damage after 3.5 sec delay, on warden - if I casted subterranian - they will deal damage in AoE in front of me after 4sec delay, on dk - if a cast fossilize on someone, they getting stun no matter what. And on necro its like - BB can hit, or it may not, root from ghostly embrace can connect, or it may not. And constanly paying attention to weather your skill connecting or not adding a big mental drag to playing necro.

Maybe that what I like about it, as it apperas like strategic class where you have to account for position, enemy movement, having skills that in theory should reward you if you set everything right or if you guessed enemies next move correctly, but in actuality this ability dont reward you in a way they should. They just function that any other class abiltites (if not worse) while having that layer of complexiti added on top for the sake of complexity alone.

autocookies

Yes, for PvE its a decent class.

Its still desired as a support dps / off tank and that's enough to allow me the luxury of playing my mains class in trials

Soarora

I’m not sure what to vote this as: I’ve tried necro healer (deleted the build), see no reason to make a necro DPS, but necro tank is perfectly fine. I like necro tank, but not the other roles.

Jestir

I used to play it, but droped, and now main other class. (Please state a reason you droped in the comments)

Just generally clunky to play

While I know I don't have the best ping/connection, I don't think I've missed more LAs or had to spam a skill to get it to go off as much as I did with my necro.

Blastbones was fun but so frustrating to use and now gls keeps the worst of it and gets rid of what made it fun. Whats the point in the delay now?

Somewhat fixed now but the lack of key buffs was annoying

LunaFlora

Yes, i am having fun playing with my Necromancers.

why is there no poll option that isn't exclusively PvE or PvP?

Credible_Joe

Yes, its decent in PvP.

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Are playing any other class in PvP right now? Every time i switch from necro ever so often I feel like I lowered PvP difficulty slider somwhere. And its not about wins or looses, its mainly how class is played.

I really can't feel much of a difference. Frankly, I've done better as necro than sorc, but that was a few patches ago. Maybe BB is less reliable than curse, but it does more damage and debuffs their healing and damage shields in an AOE. And I don't even use any necro CC; I focus much more on generating corpses. Bone armor, skele mage, echoing vigor, spirit guardian. Blast bones, soul burst, wrecking blow, reverse slice. Eat corpses with deaden pain for even more passive healing and protection, rinse and repeat. Throw out colossus every once in a while.

Maybe I can put CC on soul burst, but damage / healing / breach has worked well for me so far. Been wanting to get corpseburster on weapons and jewels, see if it does better for me than orders wrath. Stick with leeching plate and balorg up top. Clever alchemist is monstrous on necro with balorg, but makes me too squishy.

I guess the main strength of necro is high burst potential combined with high survivability. It's for sure clunkier and less reliable than other classes, but when it's optimized, I can't think of other setups that can slot heavy armor and a tanking set and still have enough burst to get the job done.

Melivar

Yes, for PvE its a decent class.

Mine is a Necro Tank which I use to run dungeons and normal trials with groups of varying skill level so the Necro Rez comes in very handy.

BixenteN7Akantor

Yes, its decent in PvP.

I have one necromancer, a 2H focused "charge into battle" type for PvP. So I only use a few necro skills like :
-Hungry Scythe for healing
-Boneyard for Debuffing and the Synergy for allies in PvE
-Spirit Guardian for free mitigation
-Beckoning "The Funny Pull" Armor when I'm tanking in PvE
-All 3 Ultimates which are all really good
So I never had any interaction with the corpses' mechanic and I mostly don't need to...
The passives can lead to funny things due to all the DoT buffs necro has, or the up to 60% crit chance against 25% health enemies of Death Knell. :d

BasP

Yes, for PvE its a decent class.

Prior to U43 I hadn't really played with my Stamcro in maybe a year or two, but due to Corpseburster, the added Major Buffs and to a lesser extent Scribing (I use Traveling Knife with Warrior's Opportunity as a semi-spammable) I've really enjoyed playing with that character again.

Now that Traveling Knife will be able to deal Frost Damage and Ghostly Embrace will have a chance to apply a DOT, I've also began leveling up some of my Magcro's skills in preparation for U44 and I look forward to playing with that character again as well. I put together a build for that character on the PTS and I've soloed a Dragon as well as a couple of World Bosses (with a relatively large number of adds) using Ghostly Embrace as a semi-spammable, and I can see myself using that skill even in its current state on some occasions once U44 drops.

Some of my (uninteresting) Ghostly Embrace PTS statistics:

That said, I definitely think that the class would be in a better shape if at least some of the feedback that has been given on GLS, Blastbones, Skeletal Mage, the new Ghostly Embrace et cetera would have been incorporated. And even though I don't really play PvP, it's a shame that the class seems to be one of the worst classes in the game for that content. So I wish that ZOS would find a way to make the class more viable in PvP without changing the skills too much for PvE.

necro_the_crafter

Credible_Joe wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Are playing any other class in PvP right now? Every time i switch from necro ever so often I feel like I lowered PvP difficulty slider somwhere. And its not about wins or looses, its mainly how class is played.

I really can't feel much of a difference. Frankly, I've done better as necro than sorc, but that was a few patches ago. Maybe BB is less reliable than curse, but it does more damage and debuffs their healing and damage shields in an AOE. And I don't even use any necro CC; I focus much more on generating corpses. Bone armor, skele mage, echoing vigor, spirit guardian. Blast bones, soul burst, wrecking blow, reverse slice. Eat corpses with deaden pain for even more passive healing and protection, rinse and repeat. Throw out colossus every once in a while.

Maybe I can put CC on soul burst, but damage / healing / breach has worked well for me so far. Been wanting to get corpseburster on weapons and jewels, see if it does better for me than orders wrath. Stick with leeching plate and balorg up top. Clever alchemist is monstrous on necro with balorg, but makes me too squishy.

I guess the main strength of necro is high burst potential combined with high survivability. It's for sure clunkier and less reliable than other classes, but when it's optimized, I can't think of other setups that can slot heavy armor and a tanking set and still have enough burst to get the job done.

Corpsebuster is, well, quite busted actually. Its so good that is saddens me that it is a 5 pc set and not a innate necromaner passive or active skill.

Im using it with rallying cry with balorg and saint'n'seducer and yeah AoE damage is quite good, however if not for a class set same build would be much better on warden or dk. Well creedit to ZoS for at least making good class sets for necro, now dedicate team that was making this sets to review necros skills and we will be gucci for sure.

KingLewie_III

I used to play it, but droped, and now main other class. (Please state a reason you droped in the comments)

Necromancer was my main as a PVE DPS and PVP up until they changed the harmony trait and gutted the graverobber synergy. It has no burst anymore in PVP in comparison to the other classes. It just feels incomplete now, and you're using mostly weapon and guild abilities rather than class abilities, which makes it a little bland in comparison to classes like Warden, Sorc, Nightblade, DK, Templar... oh yeah... all the other classes.

If they somehow changed the graverobber synergy to pop when it consumes a corpse on cast so i could get that playstyle back, I'd be back on Cro in PVP. But even with the recent changes that have been presented, i have little to no faith that anything will be done to actually bring this class in line with the others in the next 3 years.

Thumbless_Bot

Yes, its decent in PvP.

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Are you having fun playing necro? I will much appreciate if you put your reasoining in the comments.

What is a necro? Is this a new class coming to eso next patch?

Aldoss

Yes, its decent in PvP.

I think the options on this poll are flawed, so I'm not sure what, if anything, can get gleaned from it.

I chose the option that most fully represents my thoughts on necro.

I think necro (from my PvP perspective) can be summed up succinctly like this: Necro is overall fine, but any build you put on it would likely perform 2-10x better on any other class.

In group play I currently play a healer and I think Necro brings some excellent tools to the table in that respect. The effect of aoe maj and min defile, plus the cc from ghostly embrace (I'll swap to empowering next patch), plus aoe maj vuln is great pressure, so long as you have teammates who know how to hold their ults for when they see the smash that you set up for them.

Solo, necro is kind of meh. Corpseburster is really fun to play with, but necro is still just plagued by poor combat mechanics. We have no skill sourced snare removal, so we have to use RAT. Blighted is required. Our spammables are bad, so we use weapon sourced ones. Our burst heal defiles us. Our source of major proph/sav is linked to an arguably terrible tether with poor pressure, low range, and buggy mechanics. Our source of maj brut/sorc is linked to a low dps "dot" which makes no sense. We have no instant stun. We have no instant root. I've desperately tried to play without vigor, but coil alone is not a heavy enough heal to counter the pressure from most dmg sources. You can also los your own heal, cuz of course you can.

Everything in the necro kit is delayed, so if we run up on a sorc, we get immediately pressured by curse from a distance, stunned by streak (which can not only stun you, but also your bb, cuz that makes sense...), into a massive and hard hitting frag for massive pops, all while they hide behind 8k shields that they can spam almost infinitely.

We run up on a dk and they fossilize and dot us up, putting us on the defensive immediately.

We run up on a NB and they can cloak and smack us with likely the most stacked spammable in the game and then two tap us if we miss the roll dodge, all while having some of the best healing in the game. Neco has to go defensive almost immediately.

We run up on a warden and actually do decently well, but the warden kit is so robust with passive healing that a necro will lose most evenly matched contests. Warden's pops are also delayed, so they're one of the few match ups where we don't have to instantly go defensive.

Arc has insane pressure and huge shields as well coupled with highly effective cc options. Necros don't have to go defensive immediately, but the pressure will catch up.

Plar... well... they just tank up and 3rd party radiant when the time is right. Plar needs help too.

Delayed mechanics + non movable corpses is just bad gameplay.

I feel rewarded for playing necro because it's just so bad, so I continue to play it, but I do so recognizing that 90% of the builds I put on a necro would just do so much better on any other class.

coop500

I used to play it, but droped, and now main other class. (Please state a reason you droped in the comments)

Too clunky. Release was clunky and now it just feels worse.

Thumbless_Bot

Yes, its decent in PvP.

All joking aside there are a few necros that absolutely SLAP in high mmr bgs. Same with templar. It's like, If you've solved the puzzle you get to reap the rewards... however, it's a very complicated puzzle.

This is the way the game should be imho...

Paradisius

I used to play it, but droped, and now main other class. (Please state a reason you droped in the comments)

It had a rough start with blast bones originally and the devs resorting to making the tether an oGCD ability to help its rigidness for a time, I hoped that it would get more improvements and really come into its own identity that isn't just jank corpse mechanics, but after witnessing GLS and their attempts to make it usable I lost hope, I just stay on my Sorc now

necro_the_crafter

KingLewie_III wrote: »

Necromancer was my main as a PVE DPS and PVP up until they changed the harmony trait and gutted the graverobber synergy. It has no burst anymore in PVP in comparison to the other classes. It just feels incomplete now, and you're using mostly weapon and guild abilities rather than class abilities, which makes it a little bland in comparison to classes like Warden, Sorc, Nightblade, DK, Templar... oh yeah... all the other classes.

If they somehow changed the graverobber synergy to pop when it consumes a corpse on cast so i could get that playstyle back, I'd be back on Cro in PVP. But even with the recent changes that have been presented, i have little to no faith that anything will be done to actually bring this class in line with the others in the next 3 years.

Yeah miss that one too. I understand that harmony was overtuned for ballgroups, but dont understand why they hadnt brought Avid synergy back up through another means, like consuming a corpse with ability. In fact Avid synergie itself got nerfed in damage same patch they removed harmony. Like what are they thinking. Maybe ZoS still consider necros OP? I cant see any reason for nerf a class in PvP specificly that is barely seen in PvP. Like why they have to go and nerf GLS from 20% to 15% before release, why even release GLS if you know that ability is unfinished, why Ghostly have to lose it cc, it has less power budget now that any simmilar skill across all class? I dont understand why it deserves such a tradeoffs or straight nerfs with every change. I hope big ZoS will enlighten us one day.

necro_the_crafter

coop500 wrote: »

Too clunky. Release was clunky and now it just feels worse.

Its funny how Blastbones was acting perfectly fine after realese, and than something in its AI break once they made it so it jumps on targets. As well as tethers were ignoring gcd since it made awkward character turns if nearest corpse was at an angle to your line of sight. And then they put it back on GCD without fixing you character stop and make a turn to suck a corpse, effectivly rooting/stunning you in place for the time you search for a corpse.

Aldoss wrote: »

I think the options on this poll are flawed, so I'm not sure what, if anything, can get gleaned from it.

I chose the option that most fully represents my thoughts on necro.

I think necro (from my PvP perspective) can be summed up succinctly like this: Necro is overall fine, but any build you put on it would likely perform 2-10x better on any other class.

In group play I currently play a healer and I think Necro brings some excellent tools to the table in that respect. The effect of aoe maj and min defile, plus the cc from ghostly embrace (I'll swap to empowering next patch), plus aoe maj vuln is great pressure, so long as you have teammates who know how to hold their ults for when they see the smash that you set up for them.

Solo, necro is kind of meh. Corpseburster is really fun to play with, but necro is still just plagued by poor combat mechanics. We have no skill sourced snare removal, so we have to use RAT. Blighted is required. Our spammables are bad, so we use weapon sourced ones. Our burst heal defiles us. Our source of major proph/sav is linked to an arguably terrible tether with poor pressure, low range, and buggy mechanics. Our source of maj brut/sorc is linked to a low dps "dot" which makes no sense. We have no instant stun. We have no instant root. I've desperately tried to play without vigor, but coil alone is not a heavy enough heal to counter the pressure from most dmg sources. You can also los your own heal, cuz of course you can.

Everything in the necro kit is delayed, so if we run up on a sorc, we get immediately pressured by curse from a distance, stunned by streak (which can not only stun you, but also your bb, cuz that makes sense...), into a massive and hard hitting frag for massive pops, all while they hide behind 8k shields that they can spam almost infinitely.

We run up on a dk and they fossilize and dot us up, putting us on the defensive immediately.

We run up on a NB and they can cloak and smack us with likely the most stacked spammable in the game and then two tap us if we miss the roll dodge, all while having some of the best healing in the game. Neco has to go defensive almost immediately.

We run up on a warden and actually do decently well, but the warden kit is so robust with passive healing that a necro will lose most evenly matched contests. Warden's pops are also delayed, so they're one of the few match ups where we don't have to instantly go defensive.

Arc has insane pressure and huge shields as well coupled with highly effective cc options. Necros don't have to go defensive immediately, but the pressure will catch up.

Plar... well... they just tank up and 3rd party radiant when the time is right. Plar needs help too.

Delayed mechanics + non movable corpses is just bad gameplay.

I feel rewarded for playing necro because it's just so bad, so I continue to play it, but I do so recognizing that 90% of the builds I put on a necro would just do so much better on any other class.

Yeah except both class sets with nobility back bar and corpsebuster front bar. And its uniqness is only that this is usable only by necro, so you cant replicate it any other class. But then, its not even close in power to any meta setup sorc can put on. So yeah, I feel you there.

necro_the_crafter

BasP wrote: »

Prior to U43 I hadn't really played with my Stamcro in maybe a year or two, but due to Corpseburster, the added Major Buffs and to a lesser extent Scribing (I use Traveling Knife with Warrior's Opportunity as a semi-spammable) I've really enjoyed playing with that character again.

Now that Traveling Knife will be able to deal Frost Damage and Ghostly Embrace will have a chance to apply a DOT, I've also began leveling up some of my Magcro's skills in preparation for U44 and I look forward to playing with that character again as well. I put together a build for that character on the PTS and I've soloed a Dragon as well as a couple of World Bosses (with a relatively large number of adds) using Ghostly Embrace as a semi-spammable, and I can see myself using that skill even in its current state on some occasions once U44 drops.

Some of my (uninteresting) Ghostly Embrace PTS statistics:

That said, I definitely think that the class would be in a better shape if at least some of the feedback that has been given on GLS, Blastbones, Skeletal Mage, the new Ghostly Embrace et cetera would have been incorporated. And even though I don't really play PvP, it's a shame that the class seems to be one of the worst classes in the game for that content. So I wish that ZOS would find a way to make the class more viable in PvP without changing the skills too much for PvE.

That statistics considers AoE hits? I didnt understand at first why you hit more patches then you casted xD
Funny how even on AoE figts 3d patch isnt reaching 100% hit rate, this ability definetly deserves cc removed! And damage also. Just make it apply chilled on every patch, otherwise necros will go out of hand and take over both PvP and PvE and ingame economics and all of the fishing spots!

Credible_Joe

Yes, its decent in PvP.

Btw, I'd like to sneak this into the discussion: What I want most more so than balance changes or less clunky / more reliable skills is an animation rework.

I hate, hate, HATE that class skill animations dismiss your weapon. I'm a Necromancer. With an AXE. Work with what the players are holding, don't ignore it or pretend they aren't there. When did ZOS even start doing this? Do Warden skills dismiss your weapon? Arcanist? On Sorc everything is done with weapon-in-hand. Even crystal shards sheathes your weapon during the channel; it doesn't vanish into the nether.

The only thing this direction makes sense with is weapon summons. Jabs / scythe. Whip? Probably. I don't play DK. But everything else should keep your weapon model.

Rant over.

necro_the_crafter

Credible_Joe wrote: »

Btw, I'd like to sneak this into the discussion: What I want most more so than balance changes or less clunky / more reliable skills is an animation rework.

I hate, hate, HATE that class skill animations dismiss your weapon. I'm a Necromancer. With an AXE. Work with what the players are holding, don't ignore it or pretend they aren't there. When did ZOS even start doing this? Do Warden skills dismiss your weapon? Arcanist? On Sorc everything is done with weapon-in-hand. Even crystal shards sheathes your weapon during the channel; it doesn't vanish into the nether.

The only thing this direction makes sense with is weapon summons. Jabs / scythe. Whip? Probably. I don't play DK. But everything else should keep your weapon model.

Rant over.

If we want to get offtop...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665226/ice-staff-blocking-animation#latest
why cold stick blocks better then hot stick? why theese both visualy are the same?

BasP

Yes, for PvE its a decent class.

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Prior to U43 I hadn't really played with my Stamcro in maybe a year or two, but due to Corpseburster, the added Major Buffs and to a lesser extent Scribing (I use Traveling Knife with Warrior's Opportunity as a semi-spammable) I've really enjoyed playing with that character again.

Now that Traveling Knife will be able to deal Frost Damage and Ghostly Embrace will have a chance to apply a DOT, I've also began leveling up some of my Magcro's skills in preparation for U44 and I look forward to playing with that character again as well. I put together a build for that character on the PTS and I've soloed a Dragon as well as a couple of World Bosses (with a relatively large number of adds) using Ghostly Embrace as a semi-spammable, and I can see myself using that skill even in its current state on some occasions once U44 drops.

Some of my (uninteresting) Ghostly Embrace PTS statistics:

That said, I definitely think that the class would be in a better shape if at least some of the feedback that has been given on GLS, Blastbones, Skeletal Mage, the new Ghostly Embrace et cetera would have been incorporated. And even though I don't really play PvP, it's a shame that the class seems to be one of the worst classes in the game for that content. So I wish that ZOS would find a way to make the class more viable in PvP without changing the skills too much for PvE.

That statistics considers AoE hits? I didnt understand at first why you hit more patches then you casted xD
Funny how even on AoE figts 3d patch isnt reaching 100% hit rate, this ability definetly deserves cc removed! And damage also. Just make it apply chilled on every patch, otherwise necros will go out of hand and take over both PvP and PvE and ingame economics and all of the fishing spots!

Yeah, I deliberately picked some fights with multiple targets (the Fang & Talon WB in West Weald spawns 32 adds over the course of the fight for example I believe) to see if Ghostly Embrace would be decent in such scenarios. The damage it does in less AOE heavy fights is lackluster, to say the least, unless the target has a huge hitbox like a dragon.

On that note, I definitely liked some of the suggestions you made in your other thread on how to improve Ghostly Embrace. It's a pity that the skill wasn't reworked/buffed more during this PTS cycle so that the skill would be worth using all of the time.

YandereGirlfriend

Yes, for PvE its a decent class.

My StamCro has been having fun in the Archive with Macabre and Corpsebuster and my MagCro is my main PvE/dungeon achievement character. It's always been a solid class in PvE.

In PvP, my StamCro ballgroups while my MagCro waits around for another buff or two. MagCro just hasn't been particularly viable since the Great Harmony and Graverobber Nerf of 2022, which was basically GG for the spec.

Urvoth

You should update the poll options. I main necro in both PvP and PvE and although it's a bit better in PvE, it's just a massive slugfest in PvP and playing other classes is generally much more fun. I'm still playing it, but it's in a terrible state and it's just a sunk cost at this point.

Deimus

I play it in PvP but it's not decent it's like being the employee that goes above and beyond does their work and the work above their pay grade, but takes home minimum wage. You put in maximum effort for minimum payout. I can play other classes with blue or purple gear that don't even have all the skill lines maxed out and it feels so much more effective and smoother than my full gold gear Necro with tristat enchants and every skill line maxed out. I shouldn't go from a class that I know the kit inside and out to a class that I only know what a couple of moves do and be drastically better.

In PvE it does well, but you only need to try for vet arenas, end game vet trials, and some vet dungeons. For everything else PvE you can run around with wearing whatever and still do fine. I only do PvE when I need something though.

C_Inside

Yes, for PvE its a decent class.

With all the replies so far you'd think this forum is exclusively for pvp. So let me bring in an opinion from an endgame PvE dps player that mains necro. For context my necro is a Khajiit with Rele + Runecarver + Kilt & 1 piece Slimecraw. Pretty standard.

I find necro to be just as good as the other classes in most situation. Shock and awe, I know. The damage I can pull in single target fights, both static and dynamic is about the same as the other classes I've tried (I have a Templar DD and I've also used DK and Warden in the past).

Where Necro really shines and pushes over the top is in static fights with many ads where you need cleave. There is very little out there that can compare with my necro in this scenario. Most of my class skills are AOE, my Ultimate is AOE, Runecarver does crazy AOE damage, and thanks to Khajiit + Kilt + Death Knell you're criting like crazy. Recently I did vKA with my guild on my necro. I pulled 81K dps on Yandir, 86K on Vrol, and 60K flat on Fargravn. My total dps across the trial was just under 61K. This is way, way, WAY more than what's actually needed for this trial.

The main complaint I see about necro is it feeling clunky. I really don't understand this sentiment. All of its skills function the exact same way as other classes. You use up 1 GCD to cast the skill and it does damage. You use a GCD on Blastbones and it does damage. You use a GCD on Skull and it does damage. The speed of the projectile and/or animation literally doesn't matter as enemies in pve don't dodge. You cast the skill and it will ALWAYS do damage, assuming the enemy isn't in an immunity phase.

This sentiment that "necro is trash" comes from the fact that it's not that good in super organized endgame groups and when parsing on the trial dummy. Most people don't understand why this is and so they just blindly parrot the "necro is trash" sentiment. By the way, the reason why necro isn't good in score pushing is mostly because it's way over the penetration cap. Runecarver is the be all, end all set for necro dps atm so it needs to be used. It is light armor that needs to be always active, so you're forced into 2 pieces of light armor. Then Runecarver has penetration on its 4 piece bonus. With this setup the best arena weapon is the Maelstrom 2 hander, which has penetration as its perfected bonus. And finally Necro has the Dismember passive, which is more penetration. In super organized groups this is really bad, but in more casual setups or if you're running with pugs this is mostly a non issue. And in such scenarios necro is just as strong, if not stronger than all the other classes. Don't believe me? Go parse on a Target Skeleton instead of the trial dummy. You'll be surprised.

Now, don't get me wrong, necro was underperforming a few patches ago, especially when they got rid of Stalking Blastbones, but since then the damage has gone up to the point where it's in a pretty good place. Runecarver was a major win for necro dps and all the small buffs it got since the introduction of GarbageLord's Suckrifice have made it comparable to all the other classes. Still, please DO keep pushing the "necro is trash" narrative. It means ZOS is more likely to buff my favorite class even more