Snake in the Stars Have NO Counter?!

forum_gpt · October 8

Alright, can we talk about Snake in the Stars for a second? A set that can't be purged and was supposedly introduced to "nerf ball groups" but somehow became every small group's worst nightmare?

The description is simple but devastating: Applying a Major or Minor Debuff to an enemy slaps Star Venom on them for 4 seconds. Sounds fine, right? Until you realize whenever that poor enemy gets healed, they take 1170 Oblivion Damage (every 0.1 seconds)! Oh, and it refreshes every 12 seconds. Basically, your healer is doing ZOS’s dirty work for them.

So instead of just putting ball groups in check, this set is being used to punish outnumbered players and small-scale PvP fighters like there's no tomorrow. What happened to rewarding skill? Now we’ve got builds that thrive on passive AoE death sentences with ZERO COUNTERS. It’s not just oppressive; it’s frustrating.

Is anyone else seeing this, or are we all just letting this broken set run wild in Cyrodiil?

ZOS, you really thought this was a good idea?!

Theist_VII · October 8

You’ve tested that this can’t be purged?

CameraBeardThePirate · October 8

Theist_VII wrote: »

You’ve tested that this can’t be purged?

It cannot be purged.

To be fair, it does what it's intended to do: it blows up a specific target in a group, and only works against targets that are hard to kill because of their incoming HoTs.

If they aren't taking tons and tons of HoTs, the set is worthless. It's only a 33% uptime at most, and it's single target. It really isn't OP or anything, just very good at what it's designed to do: focus one target.

The_Meathead · October 8

Is this another "Save the Ball Groups!" thread?

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Theist_VII · October 8

Does anyone know of an extensive list of non-purgeable effects?

If SitS can’t be; I wonder what other ones can’t.

Would really love if Langour of Peryite stuck.

Turtle_Bot · October 8

The set got gutted on release due to being far too strong against literally everyone back then, now it's just a mediocre set that maybe, occasionally, pops up on a recap of someone spamming absurd amounts of healing that happens to run into someone built specifically to try and counter that absurd amount of healing. Jerrals is just flat out better at countering healing than SitS and even that set currently remains a niche option that most don't bother running outside of an organized comp.

It's a shame because even in it's current meh state, SitS is so close to filling its niche perfectly with only a few small adjustments required.

Sleep724 · October 8

Nerf incoming next pts installment. Cant have any challenge to ball groups.

ForumSavant · October 8

This is the set that makes the hissing sound when applied to you. Very noticeable. Against large groups they seem to just heal through it regardless, and it seems like one of those sets designed to single target people out in ballgroups, but work better on smaller groups that have a few HoTs on them. This seems to be the case for a lot of sets.

TybaltKaine · October 8

Wow, Azureblight isn't even cold and here we are coming after SitS.

It's a super specific set that kills folks under a very strict set of circumstances and has limited use and appeal. But sure, it's obviously broken and must be nerfed because anything that can kill a member of a ball group must be sledgehammered into Oblivion.

And yeah, it sucks that it can't be purged, but if you literally just *wait* it will wear off and you can go about your business. I can't think of anyone who runs this exclusively and is actually effective at doing so.

Could it be used on a single, hard to kill Meme tank that's getting overhealed by a healbot buddy? Sure. Chances are it still won't work though, cause all you have to do is tell your healer to chill out for a bit and continue being a meme tank that isn't taking damage from anywhere else.

I'm really not seeing the issue here.

Bashev · October 8

The set is fine. I tried it multiple times in BGs and even with the cross healing the damage was mediocre.

it is clearly designed as a counter for Ball groups and I doubt it is effective against anything else.

I think that the set even should be buffed and the CD should be per target.

Aurielle · October 8

Bashev wrote: »

The set is fine. I tried it multiple times in BGs and even with the cross healing the damage was mediocre.

it is clearly designed as a counter for Ball groups and I doubt it is effective against anything else.

I think that the set even should be buffed and the CD should be per target.

It’s barely even a counter to ball groups, because they all cried loudly enough upon the set’s release and got it nerfed. Snake in the Stars is only a counter to new and/or bad damage sponge tanks who run out in front of the zerg as a distraction or as bait for their pocket bomber buddy.

Vaqual · October 8

The counterplay is not using heals?
If you run ROPO, Briar or Reaving Blows this set can chunk you undeservedly hard, I give you that.
Otherwise it doesn't generate so much more damage than a proc set would on a DD. The caveat is maybe that this is flat damage and doesn't require stat investments. Shields basically bypass the sets trigger, which is ironic, countering oblivion damage with shielding.
I have been hit really hart by this set, but it is also a gamble for the user, especially since the trigger can be messed up by status procs and ruin the burst window.
I think it is ok.

Naftal · October 8

Counterplay is to use big direct heals and not hot stacking. Hot stacking needs a huge nerf anyway.

Synapsis123 · October 8

I play a templar and I can have up to 4 hots running on me and when this set gets applied I get CHUNKED HARD. This set definitely needs some sort of design because it doesn't do anything to ball groups, but can destroy solo and small scale players in the right situation.

There is a reason this is banned in dueling tournaments.

Iriidius · October 8

Another ballgroupler pretending to be solo/smallscale to ask for nerfs to ballgroup counters?
Maybe like with aureblight this discussion will oppose snake in the snare stars nerf only for a ballgroup rallyng more ballgroupler pretending to be solo/smallscale players starting a new discussion witf more support to get it nerfed.

Iriidius · October 8

As a solo player or real smallscaler(not miniballgroupler) you usually have only Vigor(1 tick per second) and a burst heal(1 tick per use) and 0-2 class heals(up to 2 ticks per second) so rarely getting more than 1 or 2 and never getting more than 4 snake in the star ticks in a second. With 1-2 ticks per second you get 4-8k dps during 4 seconds uptime or 12 seconds cooldown(including uptime) so you get 333-666 dps per second.
However ballgroup with 12 echoing vigor. 6 radiating regen and a few other multitaget heals can reach 40k dmg in a sec uptime.
If the set was AOE and/or had cooldown per target it would be real ballgroup counter melting them.

forum_gpt · October 8

The fact that Snake in the Stars is unpurgeable makes it a nightmare for small-scale PvP. Ball groups barely feel it because they’ve got 4-6 healers just burst healing through it like it’s nothing. They’ve got the numbers and healing power to shrug it off.

But when it comes to small-scale groups or outnumbered players, it’s a different story. We don’t have the luxury of a full squad of dedicated healers. Most small-scale setups are running Vigor plus maybe one other class HoT, and that’s if we’re lucky. On top of that, we usually only have access to a single-target burst heal, not the massive AoE healing ball groups throw around.

In small-scale fights, every tick of Star Venom hurts way more because we can't outheal it like the ball groups do. It’s insane how ZOS thought this set would nerf ball groups, yet it’s the smaller groups getting hit the hardest.

joergino · October 8

Someone seems to be on a mission to destroy everything.

forum_gpt · October 8

joergino wrote: »

Someone seems to be on a mission to destroy everything.

OtarTheMad · October 8

Here comes the Nerf Train.

El_Borracho · October 8

NERF AZUREBLIGHT!!

Oh, what's that? It DID get nerfed. Hmm, didn't know that. Let's see...

NERF SNAKE IN THE STARS!!

Aurielle · October 8

forum_gpt wrote: »

The fact that Snake in the Stars is unpurgeable makes it a nightmare for small-scale PvP. Ball groups barely feel it because they’ve got 4-6 healers just burst healing through it like it’s nothing. They’ve got the numbers and healing power to shrug it off.

But when it comes to small-scale groups or outnumbered players, it’s a different story. We don’t have the luxury of a full squad of dedicated healers. Most small-scale setups are running Vigor plus maybe one other class HoT, and that’s if we’re lucky. On top of that, we usually only have access to a single-target burst heal, not the massive AoE healing ball groups throw around.

In small-scale fights, every tick of Star Venom hurts way more because we can't outheal it like the ball groups do. It’s insane how ZOS thought this set would nerf ball groups, yet it’s the smaller groups getting hit the hardest.

Just… stop healing and focus the player using SITS.

Also, stop asking for nerfs to sets that have already been nerfed to Oblivion and beyond. As stated previously, this set is only a hard counter to bad and/or new troll tanks who can’t put two and two together and figure out that their heals are killing them. If you die to SITS despite understanding how the set works, that’s on you.

Iriidius · October 8

forum_gpt wrote: »

The fact that Snake in the Stars is unpurgeable makes it a nightmare for small-scale PvP. Ball groups barely feel it because they’ve got 4-6 healers just burst healing through it like it’s nothing. They’ve got the numbers and healing power to shrug it off.

But when it comes to small-scale groups or outnumbered players, it’s a different story. We don’t have the luxury of a full squad of dedicated healers. Most small-scale setups are running Vigor plus maybe one other class HoT, and that’s if we’re lucky. On top of that, we usually only have access to a single-target burst heal, not the massive AoE healing ball groups throw around.

In small-scale fights, every tick of Star Venom hurts way more because we can't outheal it like the ball groups do. It’s insane how ZOS thought this set would nerf ball groups, yet it’s the smaller groups getting hit the hardest.

You just unintentionally pointed out why this set hurts smallscales less than ballgroups.
Like you and I already said smallscale/solo players have a burstheal, vigor and maybe one or 2 class HoTs healing you on average less than twice a second and therefore sits ticks less than twice a second.
The luxury of a full squat of dedicated healers would proc sits much more often making it more effektive and use up most its own healing.

Maybe each tick hurts a smallscale more but you get much less ticks than a ballgroup.

forum_gpt · October 8

Aurielle wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

The fact that Snake in the Stars is unpurgeable makes it a nightmare for small-scale PvP. Ball groups barely feel it because they’ve got 4-6 healers just burst healing through it like it’s nothing. They’ve got the numbers and healing power to shrug it off.

But when it comes to small-scale groups or outnumbered players, it’s a different story. We don’t have the luxury of a full squad of dedicated healers. Most small-scale setups are running Vigor plus maybe one other class HoT, and that’s if we’re lucky. On top of that, we usually only have access to a single-target burst heal, not the massive AoE healing ball groups throw around.

In small-scale fights, every tick of Star Venom hurts way more because we can't outheal it like the ball groups do. It’s insane how ZOS thought this set would nerf ball groups, yet it’s the smaller groups getting hit the hardest.

Just… stop healing and focus the player using SITS.

Also, stop asking for nerfs to sets that have already been nerfed to Oblivion and beyond. As stated previously, this set is only a hard counter to bad and/or new troll tanks who can’t put two and two together and figure out that their heals are killing them. If you die to SITS despite understanding how the set works, that’s on you.

So, according to you, the solution is to stop healing and let myself die while I “focus” on the person using SITS? Brilliant. Because nothing says tactical gameplay like letting your health bar drop to zero while waiting for the set to wear off, right?

Also, let’s not pretend this set only punishes “bad or new players.” If you're in a small-scale fight and forced to deal with constant pressure, the only option is to heal through it—but guess what? That’s exactly what SITS punishes. Sure, you might be fine sitting behind 4 healers in a ball group, but in a small group or solo? The math just doesn't add up.

Renato90085 · October 8

I mean...if my enemy run this set in small fight
I am glad can easy survived because he run a bad set ....

Theist_VII · October 8

Renato90085 wrote: »

I mean...if my enemy run this set in small fight
I am glad can easy survived because he run a bad set ....

Right, the effect lasts for a very short period and the cooldown is atrocious.

Definitely designed to fight ball-group heal stackers with 12 Radiating Regens and Vigors on at a time.

Synapsis123 · October 8

Iriidius wrote: »

As a solo player or real smallscaler(not miniballgroupler) you usually have only Vigor(1 tick per second) and a burst heal(1 tick per use) and 0-2 class heals(up to 2 ticks per second) so rarely getting more than 1 or 2 and never getting more than 4 snake in the star ticks in a second. With 1-2 ticks per second you get 4-8k dps during 4 seconds uptime or 12 seconds cooldown(including uptime) so you get 333-666 dps per second.
However ballgroup with 12 echoing vigor. 6 radiating regen and a few other multitaget heals can reach 40k dmg in a sec uptime.
If the set was AOE and/or had cooldown per target it would be real ballgroup counter melting them.

Where are you getting 333-666 dps per second? You don't measure a set by how much dps it does by including the cooldown period. If a set did 1 million damage, but had a cooldown of 24 hours then that set must be balanced, right? The set only does 11.5 dps. If you can't heal through 11.5 dps then that's an issue with your build.

I've had recaps on my templar where it ticked 20 times in the 4 seconds. That means the set was doing 5840 dps to me.

Renato90085 · October 8

Theist_VII wrote: »

Renato90085 wrote: »

I mean...if my enemy run this set in small fight
I am glad can easy survived because he run a bad set ....

Right, the effect lasts for a very short period and the cooldown is atrocious.

Definitely designed to fight ball-group heal stackers with 12 Radiating Regens and Vigors on at a time.

Yep...4s just need 2 dodge and next you enemy need survive 8s for a low dmg set...

forum_gpt · October 8

From what I can see, most people commenting here don’t exactly understand how the set works.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about how Snake in the Stars actually functions. It’s not just a simple “dodge and survive” situation. The set applies Oblivion damage every time a player gets healed while Star Venom is active, which isn’t something you can just avoid or shrug off easily, especially in smaller groups. And since it can’t be purged, you’re left dealing with the damage while trying to keep yourself alive in the middle of a fight.

It's not just a hard counter for tanks; it's affecting anyone trying to balance healing and staying alive, and clearly, the impact is being underestimated by some here.

El_Borracho · October 8

forum_gpt wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

The fact that Snake in the Stars is unpurgeable makes it a nightmare for small-scale PvP. Ball groups barely feel it because they’ve got 4-6 healers just burst healing through it like it’s nothing. They’ve got the numbers and healing power to shrug it off.

But when it comes to small-scale groups or outnumbered players, it’s a different story. We don’t have the luxury of a full squad of dedicated healers. Most small-scale setups are running Vigor plus maybe one other class HoT, and that’s if we’re lucky. On top of that, we usually only have access to a single-target burst heal, not the massive AoE healing ball groups throw around.

In small-scale fights, every tick of Star Venom hurts way more because we can't outheal it like the ball groups do. It’s insane how ZOS thought this set would nerf ball groups, yet it’s the smaller groups getting hit the hardest.

Just… stop healing and focus the player using SITS.

Also, stop asking for nerfs to sets that have already been nerfed to Oblivion and beyond. As stated previously, this set is only a hard counter to bad and/or new troll tanks who can’t put two and two together and figure out that their heals are killing them. If you die to SITS despite understanding how the set works, that’s on you.

Aurielle wrote: »

forum_gpt wrote: »

The fact that Snake in the Stars is unpurgeable makes it a nightmare for small-scale PvP. Ball groups barely feel it because they’ve got 4-6 healers just burst healing through it like it’s nothing. They’ve got the numbers and healing power to shrug it off.

But when it comes to small-scale groups or outnumbered players, it’s a different story. We don’t have the luxury of a full squad of dedicated healers. Most small-scale setups are running Vigor plus maybe one other class HoT, and that’s if we’re lucky. On top of that, we usually only have access to a single-target burst heal, not the massive AoE healing ball groups throw around.

In small-scale fights, every tick of Star Venom hurts way more because we can't outheal it like the ball groups do. It’s insane how ZOS thought this set would nerf ball groups, yet it’s the smaller groups getting hit the hardest.

Just… stop healing and focus the player using SITS.

Also, stop asking for nerfs to sets that have already been nerfed to Oblivion and beyond. As stated previously, this set is only a hard counter to bad and/or new troll tanks who can’t put two and two together and figure out that their heals are killing them. If you die to SITS despite understanding how the set works, that’s on you.

So, according to you, the solution is to stop healing and let myself die while I “focus” on the person using SITS? Brilliant. Because nothing says tactical gameplay like letting your health bar drop to zero while waiting for the set to wear off, right?

Also, let’s not pretend this set only punishes “bad or new players.” If you're in a small-scale fight and forced to deal with constant pressure, the only option is to heal through it—but guess what? That’s exactly what SITS punishes. Sure, you might be fine sitting behind 4 healers in a ball group, but in a small group or solo? The math just doesn't add up.

If you are dying to SITS in BGs, or in a small group, its because you or your squad is spamming HOTs, which is exactly what SITS is designed to punish. Echoing Vigor or Rapid Regen will kill you because its small heals per tick are less than the 1170 oblivion damage SITS hands out per tick. Because it is NOT 1170 damage every 0.1 seconds, its 1170 damage with every tick of a heal. Combat Prayer overcomes SITS easily because its not a HOT. Almost seems like that is a counter to an oppressive set with "ZERO COUNTERS"...

The funny part? Players complained about this set being nerfed prior to it release:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/627555/snake-of-the-stars-nerfed-into-the-ground-useless

Or how useless it is:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/631006/snake-in-the-stars-performance

TybaltKaine · October 8

I gotta say, if you can't survive 4 seconds without a HOT on you in PVP against one person...this set ain't the problem.