Snake of the Stars - Nerfed into the ground ( Useless )

WeylandLabs

Snake in the Stars:

This set now lasts 4 seconds, down from 6.
The damage event can now occur once every 100ms, down from once every second.

Reduced the damage per hit to 1170, down from 2848.

This set now has an additional cooldown per target of 12 seconds, in addition to its 12 second trigger cooldown, in order to prevent subsequential applications.

This set now also grants an additional line of Magicka Recovery on the 5-piece bonus.

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Was this strong ? YES = FUN

Did it counter certain playstyles and meta builds ? YES = FUN

This set seem good at a glance but the cooldown makes it completely useless now. 12 seconds with a 4 sec uptime and nerf and a 62% nerf to its damage. Sure it has 100ms proc time but what good is that when Mara's purges it or a Templar auto cleanses it Immediately. Thus making the set completely useless for 11 seconds.

Maras heal got nerfed but still the functionality make it still top tier.

Seems like another boring DLC ruined from bias influence to promote playstyles and and toxic boring pvp content of players not dying.

MEBengalsFan2001

Gear sets should not determine if a player dies or not. Skill should. But this game truly lacks any type of skilled PVP. I mean many would consider running around towers skill and hiding behind a wall or a tree skill or using an over tuned class skill, etc...

This game balancing issues in PVP and PVE will be a problem as more MMO games like ESO hit the market this year. Some of them look very good and most of the players I run with are going to try them and if they are better will put ESO aside for quiet a while. Last two time I put a game aside I didn't go back to it. NWO and DCUO. Will ESO be the next game I put aside due to bad game balancing?

SkaraMinoc

Isn't this potentially 11700 Oblivion damage per second for 4 seconds? Assuming it's not cleansed then it negates nearly all HoTs for one player in a ball group. It's niche but strong for its intended use.

This set was designed to counter pesky heal stacking for periods of time to help create windows of opportunity to cut foes down to size, and the current iteration is missing the mark while simultaneously feeling oppressive for anyone it was applied to.

WeylandLabs

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Gear sets should not determine if a player dies or not. Skill should. But this game truly lacks any type of skilled PVP. I mean many would consider running around towers skill and hiding behind a wall or a tree skill or using an over tuned class skill, etc...

This game balancing issues in PVP and PVE will be a problem as more MMO games like ESO hit the market this year. Some of them look very good and most of the players I run with are going to try them and if they are better will put ESO aside for quiet a while. Last two time I put a game aside I didn't go back to it. NWO and DCUO. Will ESO be the next game I put aside due to bad game balancing?

Pvp combat is mostly based on RNG skill is an illusion in ESO and heavy marketable to players that don't know, otherwise it would be an Esport if it was 100% skill based.

So yes build diversity knowledge of the class race and playstyle should 1000% determine another players death.

WeylandLabs

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Isn't this potentially 11700 Oblivion damage per second for 4 seconds? Assuming it's not cleansed then it negates nearly all HoTs for one player in a ball group. It's niche but strong for its intended use.

This set was designed to counter pesky heal stacking for periods of time to help create windows of opportunity to cut foes down to size, and the current iteration is missing the mark while simultaneously feeling oppressive for anyone it was applied to.

Giving the fact that every sweat is only wearing 2 sets in PvP now ?

Mara's / Rally ? The ones aren't are usually in bigger groups with pocket healer templars that help cleanse if not all negative effects ?

The math ... seems good if you want to kill players that have no idea what they are doing.

Paper players looks good in reality it will be trash !

1v1's meh ? Banned in tourneys but open would it will be awful !

seventyfive

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Gear sets should not determine if a player dies or not. Skill should. But this game truly lacks any type of skilled PVP. I mean many would consider running around towers skill and hiding behind a wall or a tree skill or using an over tuned class skill, etc...

This game balancing issues in PVP and PVE will be a problem as more MMO games like ESO hit the market this year. Some of them look very good and most of the players I run with are going to try them and if they are better will put ESO aside for quiet a while. Last two time I put a game aside I didn't go back to it. NWO and DCUO. Will ESO be the next game I put aside due to bad game balancing?

Isn't it strange how there seems to be a connection between a certain level of skill and the idea that skill plays hardly any role at all in eso.

Why is it that I usually find comments from players of this view that suggest they aren't the greatest at the game. Like complaining that weaving is hard, bar swapping is cumbersome, keeping up buffs is cumbersome and that oakensoul one bars was a great improvement to combat. Pardon my sarcasm, but to clarify, this was the precise case this time.

On topic: I believe the update to snake of the stars makes it more balanced but still very strong.

Tommy_The_Gun

I will be honest. Sets like this (Hrothgar's Chill, Plaguebreak, Dark Convergence, Mara's Balm, Snake in the Stars, Shell Splitter) should have never ever been added into the game in a first place. It is simply put: Game Breaking stuff, stronger than class ultimates. Sets should never ever been considered a "balancing" factor. If a Play-style is Over-performing, then nerf a play style. You have tools for it (Battle Spirit). It is quite simple. Introducing sets like that only introduces more & more problems.

OBJnoob

I don't mind sets like this. They're usually too strong and end up getting nerfed... But I can understand that proc sets with varying effects are kinda the only way to keep introducing NEW things.

A set that punishes you for purging? Genius. Did it need to create some huge explosion that blows up a whole group? Probably not.

A set that does damage based on someone's resistance? A good enough idea. Was it overturned? Apparently.

A set that negates healing, or even replaces it with damage for a period of time? Sure, why not?

Sets that cluster people together for ensuing ulti dumps? I'm not a huge fan, but these sets have something in common with the other sets.

They all offered counters to things people were complaining about. Specifically-- groups.

What really annoys me is HOW they get nerfed. I agree that most of them needed to be nerfed. But a lot of the nerfs involve lengthening cooldowns and that's boring to me. Kiting/healing/surviving until your procs are all set and then turning and burning wit every-15-second-OPness is an annoying playstyle. And this only reinforces what was already an annoying playstyle-- because this is the same tactic that gets used anyway from one ultimate to another. And we could go back in time all the way to balorghs and blame that for this style. But it isn't the sets fault.

People complain about something... Groups, tankyness, healing, purging. Then a counter is introduced. People immediately call it out for being too effective. It is either nerfed hard and nobody uses it (hrothgars and nocturnal,) or for some reason it isn't nerfed that much and people continue to complain (dark convergence and plaguebreak.)

The truth really seems to me that the devs are listening to a certain extent but the people don't actually know what they want. Or they are asking for something impossible: make a set that will hurt groups but won't be used against me.

And only now that people are realizing their error do they start asking for something else: well just use battlespirit to punish groups then. Which really is the EXACT same wrong intention but is at least honest... And will probably work. Because game-sponsored cheats always work.

OnGodiDoDis

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Gear sets should not determine if a player dies or not. Skill should. But this game truly lacks any type of skilled PVP. I mean many would consider running around towers skill and hiding behind a wall or a tree skill or using an over tuned class skill, etc...

This game balancing issues in PVP and PVE will be a problem as more MMO games like ESO hit the market this year. Some of them look very good and most of the players I run with are going to try them and if they are better will put ESO aside for quiet a while. Last two time I put a game aside I didn't go back to it. NWO and DCUO. Will ESO be the next game I put aside due to bad game balancing?

Pvp combat is mostly based on RNG skill is an illusion in ESO and heavy marketable to players that don't know, otherwise it would be an Esport if it was 100% skill based.

So yes build diversity knowledge of the class race and playstyle should 1000% determine another players death.

This argument makes no sense. You're trying to defend the set by saying it should be stronger but you have no solid argument to back it up because there is none. This set should not exist.

KlauthWarthog

OBJnoob wrote: »

The truth really seems to me that the devs are listening to a certain extent but the people don't actually know what they want.

https://youtu.be/QHHg99hwQGY?t=3410
Lesson #19, "Your audience is good at recognizing problems and bad at solving them".
This is a thing that the devs here should keep in mind.

Regarding this specific set, I am glad that they have tweaked it to get it better in line with the original intent, but I think they missed the mark. As it is, it is useless against ball groups, but it explodes a solo player using Ring of Pale Order, or Puncturing Sweeps, or the healing morph of Flurry, which is not what they stated the intent to be.

WeylandLabs

OnGodiDoDis wrote: »

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

Gear sets should not determine if a player dies or not. Skill should. But this game truly lacks any type of skilled PVP. I mean many would consider running around towers skill and hiding behind a wall or a tree skill or using an over tuned class skill, etc...

This game balancing issues in PVP and PVE will be a problem as more MMO games like ESO hit the market this year. Some of them look very good and most of the players I run with are going to try them and if they are better will put ESO aside for quiet a while. Last two time I put a game aside I didn't go back to it. NWO and DCUO. Will ESO be the next game I put aside due to bad game balancing?

Pvp combat is mostly based on RNG skill is an illusion in ESO and heavy marketable to players that don't know, otherwise it would be an Esport if it was 100% skill based.

So yes build diversity knowledge of the class race and playstyle should 1000% determine another players death.

This argument makes no sense. You're trying to defend the set by saying it should be stronger but you have no solid argument to back it up because there is none. This set should not exist.

Did you read what I said ? That's the argument and debate, confused about cooldown time vs counter play of Mara's balm ? I don't understand your validity of saying I have no argument when I tested it on the PTS vs Maras build ?

taugrim

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

The truth really seems to me that the devs are listening to a certain extent but the people don't actually know what they want.

https://youtu.be/QHHg99hwQGY?t=3410
Lesson #19, "Your audience is good at recognizing problems and bad at solving them".
This is a thing that the devs here should keep in mind.

Regarding this specific set, I am glad that they have tweaked it to get it better in line with the original intent, but I think they missed the mark. As it is, it is useless against ball groups, but it explodes a solo player using Ring of Pale Order, or Puncturing Sweeps, or the healing morph of Flurry, which is not what they stated the intent to be.

Wow, thank you SO MUCH for linking that video.

I've had the opportunity to interview execs at various gaming companies. And I would say that this single video is the best summary of industry learnings I've ever seen.

I don't play Magic the Gathering but skimmed watched the entire video. It's sooo worth it.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

ZOS this set is still WAY too strong,

it can make a player who is affected during that 4 sec window of healing, take 46,800 Oblivion damage (no mitigation for that), it says that dmg can proc every .1 sec's for 4 seconds that is 40 tenth's of a second, that means it can damage the player 40 times.

1170 Oblivion Damage x 40 is TADA: 46,800 Oblivion damage. No one will survive that with someone actively attacking you. the only thing you can do is to dodge roll away when infected with this.

(5 items) Applying a Major or Minor Debuff to an enemy applies Star Venom to them for 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 12 seconds. Whenever an enemy with Star Venom is healed, they take 1170 Oblivion Damage, up to once every 0.1 seconds. An enemy can only be effected by one instance of Star Venom every 12 seconds.

This needs to be only 4 seconds at 1170 Oblivion Damage, MAX 4,680 damage.

acastanza_ESO

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

ZOS this set is still WAY too strong,

it can make a player who is affected during that 4 sec window of healing, take 46,800 Oblivion damage (no mitigation for that), it says that dmg can proc every .1 sec's for 4 seconds that is 40 tenth's of a second, that means it can damage the player 40 times.

1170 Oblivion Damage x 40 is TADA: 46,800 Oblivion damage. No one will survive that with someone actively attacking you. the only thing you can do is to dodge roll away when infected with this.

(5 items) Applying a Major or Minor Debuff to an enemy applies Star Venom to them for 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 12 seconds. Whenever an enemy with Star Venom is healed, they take 1170 Oblivion Damage, up to once every 0.1 seconds. An enemy can only be effected by one instance of Star Venom every 12 seconds.

This needs to be only 4 seconds at 1170 Oblivion Damage, MAX 4,680 damage.

No and this idea that it is too strong is based on a fundamental misunderstanding how the set works. The set procs off of incoming healing negating a fraction of your incoming HPS. If they're "taking" 46,800 Oblivion damage it's only because they were very likely getting more than that in incoming healing.

There are some edge cases where you can be getting extremely small heals from some abilities that this set can out-damage, perhaps they should look at those cases and maybe cap the Star Venom damage at "up to 90% of the incoming healing" or something.
But the set does need to be buffed in other areas, procing on one target once every 12 seconds makes the set effectively useless against the intended target (groups stacking lots of heals).
Being able to hit one person in a 12+ person group does not an effective counter-set make. You should only be able to affect each person once every 12 seconds, but I do think you should be able to proc it on multiple targets more frequently for it to be a set that is actually worth running.

OBJnoob

Maybe it's intended to be a dueling set? Is there a particular reason why some people think it is meant for group busting? I'm not the best at reading and remembering patch notes so... Honest question.

Seems to me that people just want it to be. But with the cooldown it almost certainly isn't?

acastanza_ESO

OBJnoob wrote: »

Maybe it's intended to be a dueling set? Is there a particular reason why some people think it is meant for group busting? I'm not the best at reading and remembering patch notes so... Honest question.

Seems to me that people just want it to be. But with the cooldown it almost certainly isn't?

IIRC ZOS said that the intent was to counter the absurd heal stacking of coordinated groups. Those groups are the only time you''ll actually be able to get enough procs out of the set for it to be a reasonable source of damage. The original version was a crazy strong dueling set, this version is completely useless for that.

React

OBJnoob wrote: »

Maybe it's intended to be a dueling set? Is there a particular reason why some people think it is meant for group busting? I'm not the best at reading and remembering patch notes so... Honest question.

Seems to me that people just want it to be. But with the cooldown it almost certainly isn't?

The developer patch note for the final iteration of the set reads something along the lines of "this set is intended to counter scenarios where there are many heals overlapping". It was their response to the enormous amount of requests for adjustment to the way infinite HOT stacking works.

A poor "solution" to the problem, as it is limited to one single person per 12 seconds. Needs it's 12 second caster cooldown removed.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

ZOS this set is still WAY too strong,

it can make a player who is affected during that 4 sec window of healing, take 46,800 Oblivion damage (no mitigation for that), it says that dmg can proc every .1 sec's for 4 seconds that is 40 tenth's of a second, that means it can damage the player 40 times.

1170 Oblivion Damage x 40 is TADA: 46,800 Oblivion damage. No one will survive that with someone actively attacking you. the only thing you can do is to dodge roll away when infected with this.

(5 items) Applying a Major or Minor Debuff to an enemy applies Star Venom to them for 4 seconds. This effect can occur once every 12 seconds. Whenever an enemy with Star Venom is healed, they take 1170 Oblivion Damage, up to once every 0.1 seconds. An enemy can only be effected by one instance of Star Venom every 12 seconds.

This needs to be only 4 seconds at 1170 Oblivion Damage, MAX 4,680 damage.

This is a terrible suggestion, the set is pretty much worthless as is due to the uncontrollable nature of the proc application (applied on major/minor debuff) and how in the scenarios it is designed to counter (large scale, often where ball groups are present) applying it to one single person is completely pointless. It won't do any more damage than your typical coldfire ballista, and that has a shorter cooldown/longer duration/is aoe.

Set needs the 12s caster CD removed so that it can be applied to multiple people at once.

OBJnoob

Okay thank you both for that clarification.

xFocused

So, I'm still interested in this set. It sounds good on paper BUT has anyone tested it yet? Tried it out against large groups, etc....What if you paired this with VD and slotted Occult in the blue tree? Take down a healer or 1 person, cause the rest of the group to go kaboom? I'm just throwing ideas out there to see what's the best option for this set. As of now I'd like to run it on a Magcro, thoughts?

Theignson

xFocused wrote: »

So, I'm still interested in this set. It sounds good on paper BUT has anyone tested it yet? Tried it out against large groups, etc....What if you paired this with VD and slotted Occult in the blue tree? Take down a healer or 1 person, cause the rest of the group to go kaboom? I'm just throwing ideas out there to see what's the best option for this set. As of now I'd like to run it on a Magcro, thoughts?

I tried it on a MagDK. The set works as a heal negate for HOTs. Eg if you are getting a bunch of 1000 point heals over 4 seconds, those would all be replaced by 1200 points of damage. So the damage from the set wouldn't hurt them, but the damage comes from your other abilities. So basically you apply the heal negate, then burst.

It doesn't do much if anything to ball groups. It also won't affect a burst heal. For example, a DK coagulating blood can hit for 12-16k; subtract 1200 from that and you have minimal effect.

So where does it work? It works very well against single targets or people in large battles. It does pretty well against heal tanks that are less immortal with this. Anyone counting on a lot of HOTs to get themselves out of trouble will be impacted by this set.