Azureblight change is fine if

Nihilr · October 2

You finally make same-morph/named abilities refresh common targets instead of stacking.

12 players shouldn't all get 12 stacks of vigor. That is lazy.

Make ballgroups have all different skills/morphs if they're going to coordinate together and heal stack.

Reasoning: Major/minor buffs/debuffs refresh, and cannot stack because they are NAMED. The same logic should apply to abilities and their morphs.

That is how ballgroups and zergs would be "nerfed" but also not nerfed if the group really puts time into slotting specific skills per player running the group. Everyone wins.

gariondavey · October 2

Have to limit shielding too if that's the case

festegios · October 2

Please don’t. That would be terrible for pve

Tommy_The_Gun · October 2

I agree with OP. They should do it.

The issue is that for over 10 years, Ball Groups have not received a single, even smallest, tiniest nerf. And all potential counters were nerfed, sometimes in a hot-fix (Plaguebreak set for example).
^ I think that it gives some insights on what ZOS PvP priorities are and who do they consider their "target audience".

So, lets be real. As much as I would like to see some proper adjustments done with battle spirit (and not done via sets), to address Ball Groups - chances for them to actually properly balance out Ball Groups are close to zero. BGs are ZOS's favourite boy and they always will have special treatment.

Soarora · October 2

festegios wrote: »

Please don’t. That would be terrible for pve

People have suggested that for PvE’s sake that the amount of HoTs of each type is limited to 2 as opposed to 1. I wonder if this could just be tied into battle spirit though. I don’t see how cross-heals in PvP is necessary.

Joy_Division · October 2

festegios wrote: »

Please don’t. That would be terrible for pve

As someone who also PvEs, I dislike the tendency here that even if something is overpowered, it's fine, acceptable, and balanced for PvE. No it isn't. What's the point of even having hard modes, achievements, and rewards based incentives if I or a group can just press a button or wear a set that trivializes the encounter the devs spend months trying to present its customers as challenges to overcome?

If something is overpowered and game-breaking, then it's overpowered and game-breaking regardless of the content or game-system in which it is being used.

As a side note, I did not feel Azureblight was as OP as some PvP critics made it out to be. Perhaps a slight adjustment (or presenting us with better class/abilities AoE options so we'd use something other than Azureblight) was the way to go. Stacking a dozen echoing vigors or buffs of the same type is silly and game-breaking

sarahthes · October 2

Joy_Division wrote: »

festegios wrote: »

Please don’t. That would be terrible for pve

As someone who also PvEs, I dislike the tendency here that even if something is overpowered, it's fine, acceptable, and balanced for PvE. No it isn't. What's the point of even having hard modes, achievements, and rewards based incentives if I or a group can just press a button or wear a set that trivializes the encounter the devs spend months trying to present its customers as challenges to overcome?

If something is overpowered and game-breaking, then it's overpowered and game-breaking regardless of the content or game-system in which it is being used.

As a side note, I did not feel Azureblight was as OP as some PvP critics made it out to be. Perhaps a slight adjustment (or presenting us with better class/abilities AoE options so we'd use something other than Azureblight) was the way to go. Stacking a dozen echoing vigors or buffs of the same type is silly and game-breaking

We have some fights still where even with 2 full healers there's not enough cross healing and raid leads will slot a third healer or hybrid healer/tank AND ask dds to run echoing vigor or use a shield.

Most groups do not just breeze through the hard modes and trifectas, and the game should not be balanced around the people who can get a new trifecta day 1.

Nihilr · October 4

sarahthes wrote: »

We have some fights still where even with 2 full healers there's not enough cross healing and raid leads will slot a third healer or hybrid healer/tank AND ask dds to run echoing vigor or use a shield.

Most groups do not just breeze through the hard modes and trifectas, and the game should not be balanced around the people who can get a new trifecta day 1.

This means the game needs to be rebalanced overall. If 1 piece of the puzzle has to move, then so does the 2nd piece. Ballgroups shouldn't have the same skill stacking 12 times, and if that means PvE is suffering, that means that the mechanics or difficulty must decrease to reflect the needed changes against ballgroups. Yeah, that's a lot of work--PvP playerbase is suffering for it, or players are taking advantage of it and ruining it for others.

It's not like everyone can't get what they want in this case. The devs just need to *do it.*

edit: mistype

Joy_Division · October 4

sarahthes wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

festegios wrote: »

Please don’t. That would be terrible for pve

As someone who also PvEs, I dislike the tendency here that even if something is overpowered, it's fine, acceptable, and balanced for PvE. No it isn't. What's the point of even having hard modes, achievements, and rewards based incentives if I or a group can just press a button or wear a set that trivializes the encounter the devs spend months trying to present its customers as challenges to overcome?

If something is overpowered and game-breaking, then it's overpowered and game-breaking regardless of the content or game-system in which it is being used.

As a side note, I did not feel Azureblight was as OP as some PvP critics made it out to be. Perhaps a slight adjustment (or presenting us with better class/abilities AoE options so we'd use something other than Azureblight) was the way to go. Stacking a dozen echoing vigors or buffs of the same type is silly and game-breaking

We have some fights still where even with 2 full healers there's not enough cross healing and raid leads will slot a third healer or hybrid healer/tank AND ask dds to run echoing vigor or use a shield.

Most groups do not just breeze through the hard modes and trifectas, and the game should not be balanced around the people who can get a new trifecta day 1.

Is this why we have sat through years and years of organized PvP groups running around with the brain-dead mechanic of 12 vigors stacking on them?

The game should not also be balanced such that every DD needs to stack the same HoT. ESO used to not be that way. This is a new phenomenon. I've been in progression PvE groups and it was only in the rarest of cases that as a DD I had to slot a heal, shield, or anything of the sort. It was precisely because the devs allowed for things like hybridization to give groups exponentially more healing power and designed the new content around the inflated power creep that these silly mechanics are deemed necessary. They should have put their foot down.

gariondavey · October 4

The nerf to azureblight is only ok...

If hot stacking and shield stacking were nerfed, then ballgroups would have to rely on burst heals and purges to survive
Which would then allow plaguebreak to be used to kill ballgroups who spam purge.
Risk and reward, rock paper scissors, etc

Nihilr · October 4

gariondavey wrote: »

The nerf to azureblight is only ok...

If hot stacking and shield stacking were nerfed, then ballgroups would have to rely on burst heals and purges to survive
Which would then allow plaguebreak to be used to kill ballgroups who spam purge.
Risk and reward, rock paper scissors, etc

And that's where same name abilities affecting only 1 target will help fix this problem. Shield stacking happens when Sorcs, DKs, and Arcs backbar resto staff and they all cross HoTs and Shields. But limiting same name abilities per target means that stacking is reduced significantly.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · October 5

sarahthes wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

festegios wrote: »

Please don’t. That would be terrible for pve

As someone who also PvEs, I dislike the tendency here that even if something is overpowered, it's fine, acceptable, and balanced for PvE. No it isn't. What's the point of even having hard modes, achievements, and rewards based incentives if I or a group can just press a button or wear a set that trivializes the encounter the devs spend months trying to present its customers as challenges to overcome?

If something is overpowered and game-breaking, then it's overpowered and game-breaking regardless of the content or game-system in which it is being used.

As a side note, I did not feel Azureblight was as OP as some PvP critics made it out to be. Perhaps a slight adjustment (or presenting us with better class/abilities AoE options so we'd use something other than Azureblight) was the way to go. Stacking a dozen echoing vigors or buffs of the same type is silly and game-breaking

We have some fights still where even with 2 full healers there's not enough cross healing and raid leads will slot a third healer or hybrid healer/tank AND ask dds to run echoing vigor or use a shield.

Most groups do not just breeze through the hard modes and trifectas, and the game should not be balanced around the people who can get a new trifecta day 1.

The issue is that healing in the game used to be tied to ground based AOE HoT's rather than 'Sticky HoT's'. This was far more balanced as they require actual thought about precasting and movement. They can also be removed via negate to allow for counter play. Ground HoT's used to be roughly twice as effective as 'Sticky' HoT's due to the fact that they weren't on you all the time.

The current method of 'HoT and forget' is just bad. If just one instance of any heal was allowed it would actually allow for more class diversity as you would then want to bring a warden and necro for both their ground heals (just as an example - it might not actually be optimal).

necro_the_crafter · October 5

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

The issue is that healing in the game used to be tied to ground based AOE HoT's rather than 'Sticky HoT's'. This was far more balanced as they require actual thought about precasting and movement. They can also be removed via negate to allow for counter play. Ground HoT's used to be roughly twice as effective as 'Sticky' HoT's due to the fact that they weren't on you all the time.

The current method of 'HoT and forget' is just bad. If just one instance of any heal was allowed it would actually allow for more class diversity as you would then want to bring a warden and necro for both their ground heals (just as an example - it might not actually be optimal).

Agree. while you might expect that sticky HoTs are countered by sticky DoTs, acrually they are not even close in their DPS to a HoTs HPS, while also HoTs usually have 1s tickrate (rapid regen is 0.5s), while sticky dots are 2s tickrate, and sticky DoTs can also be cleansed, while HoTs cant be dispelled, and to my knowledge there is no single offensive dispel in the game outside ofa single insctance of shield removing Trample(that is 1.5 sec to cast).

Ground HoTs vs Ground DoTs are much more balanced, as they have same tickrate and quite the same healing/damage nubers roughly. Also yeah placing ground HoTs is much more interesting in a coordinated play and have a counter throught negates and new scribing AoE dispels.

Yes please, ONE instance of ONE sticky HoT on ONE target. Or nerf HoTs to 2 sec tick rate. Or buff sticky DoTs back to 1s tickrate. Or give us acsessible offensive disples.