Cooldown on Nerfs

ibeprofun · September 19

When a class gets nerfed, the players get annoyed and ultimately some people will stop playing.

The shadowy disguise nerf is beyond a nerf - it ruins the class.

Nerfing never attracts new players.

Games this old don't get more popular, they eventually fizzle out. Nerfing only pisses off your player base which leads to people quitting. A 10 year old game needs no more reasons for people to quit. It's already 10 years old, no new players are looking for an arcane game that's been around forever with outdated graphics. It is not a good business decision to push people away.

IncultaWolf · September 19

I've actually had a lot of friends give up and quit eso/pvp because of nightblades who abused cloak and ganked new players over and over, while hiding in perma invisibility leaving them no chance to fight back.

This won't "ruin" the class, you'll still be able to kill most players with 2 buttons in pvp from stealth (incap + merciless resolve) and you still have the ability to go invisible, you'll just have to be smart about using it instead of crutching on that one defensive ability and nothing else. Healthy offering is still one of the strongest burst heals in the game. This change isn't even all considered a nerf, it's actually a buff for pve! Something a lot of nightblade players have been asking for

ibeprofun · September 19

You don't understand how nightblades play if that's what you think.

One example is every nighblade is annoyed over this should tell you something, so have some respect for nightblades and don't say half truths.

You said any nightblade can 2 shot kill out of stealth. Let me debunk this lie.

In order to 2 shot someone, you have to be wearing a pure dps set, meaning you are also vulnerable to being killed in one or 2 hits.

Second, since you can be one hit, if you are seen, you are dead. Since the ability drains magicka, you will now die because you are seen and you will also die because you probably have no magicka now.

This ruins the class.

If you get your wish and thus goes through, congratulations, I hope you enjoy playing alone because a lot will quit.

Nerfing causes people to quit. This 10 year old relic needs no more reasons to quit.

No nerf ever attracted a new player before, but they certainly have cause many to quit.

This ruins the class, listen to the MASSES.

Theist_VII · September 19

ibeprofun wrote: »

You don't understand how nightblades play if that's what you think.

One example is every nighblade is annoyed over this should tell you something, so have some respect for nightblades and don't say half truths.

You said any nightblade can 2 shot kill out of stealth. Let me debunk this lie.

In order to 2 shot someone, you have to be wearing a pure dps set, meaning you are also vulnerable to being killed in one or 2 hits.

Second, since you can be one hit, if you are seen, you are dead.

Huh? I was fighting someone with Sea Serpents Coil and look how little damage their Jabs were doing, and then I proceeded to two-tap them.

Nightblades are extremely tanky when built right.

bladenick · September 19

IncultaWolf wrote: »

I've actually had a lot of friends give up and quit eso/pvp because of nightblades who abused cloak and ganked new players over and over, while hiding in perma invisibility leaving them no chance to fight back.

This won't "ruin" the class, you'll still be able to kill most players with 2 buttons in pvp from stealth (incap + merciless resolve) and you still have the ability to go invisible, you'll just have to be smart about using it instead of crutching on that one defensive ability and nothing else. Healthy offering is still one of the strongest burst heals in the game. This change isn't even all considered a nerf, it's actually a buff for pve! Something a lot of nightblade players have been asking for

You don’t play nightblade, in live server , melee NB need cast cloak repeatly to get close then cast incap, in most melee NB build it only take 7k-25k hp depending on opponent’s resistance and latency(break free and avoid spectral bow entirely), it no more after PTS patch online, as a 20k NB can only sustain invisible 10 seconds, do this means empty mana after incap released, maybe even no mana to throw coming spectral bow, even in live server is most challenging play style as melee blade

But you will still get one shot dead by Stam range NB ganker, as it the only vibe DPS NB build after PTS on live, cast offense skill by stem and leave all mana for cloak, I guess it the most hated NB, but the reason behind this is proc gear, it trigger in full range

ibeprofun · September 19

Posting a little short video doesn't prove anything. How do we know the other people in the video have any skill?

A 10 sec video of you isn't a reason that nightblades should be nerfed.

This nerf will cause players to leave a 10 year old game. That's not good for anyone.

What are the masses saying?

You need to consider the fact this will push more people away.

People aren't pissed because they enjoy ranting. The masses should be considered. If everyone is saying the same thing maybe they should listen.

Not one single person who advocates this change plays a nightblade as their main.

Theist_VII · September 19

ibeprofun wrote: »

Posting a little short video proves nothing.

Instead of getting worked up over a well-deserved nerf adjustment, you could always just ask for advice on how to adapt. 😁

IncultaWolf · September 19

ibeprofun wrote: »

You don't understand how nightblades play if that's what you think.

One example is every nighblade is annoyed over this should tell you something, so have some respect for nightblades and don't say half truths.

You said any nightblade can 2 shot kill out of stealth. Let me debunk this lie.

In order to 2 shot someone, you have to be wearing a pure dps set, meaning you are also vulnerable to being killed in one or 2 hits.

Second, since you can be one hit, if you are seen, you are dead. Since the ability drains magicka, you will now die because you are seen and you will also die because you probably have no magicka now.

This ruins the class.

If you get your wish and thus goes through, congratulations, I hope you enjoy playing alone because a lot will quit.

Nerfing causes people to quit. This 10 year old relic needs no more reasons to quit.

No nerf ever attracted a new player before, but they certainly have cause many to quit.

This ruins the class, listen to the MASSES.

Nice try, but I'm a veteran nightblade player myself. These scoreboards are from me running 2 damage sets, and I still feel very tanky. Refreshing path, siphoning strikes, healthy offering, all keep me in the fight.

bladenick · September 19

IncultaWolf wrote: »

ibeprofun wrote: »

You don't understand how nightblades play if that's what you think.

One example is every nighblade is annoyed over this should tell you something, so have some respect for nightblades and don't say half truths.

You said any nightblade can 2 shot kill out of stealth. Let me debunk this lie.

In order to 2 shot someone, you have to be wearing a pure dps set, meaning you are also vulnerable to being killed in one or 2 hits.

Second, since you can be one hit, if you are seen, you are dead. Since the ability drains magicka, you will now die because you are seen and you will also die because you probably have no magicka now.

This ruins the class.

If you get your wish and thus goes through, congratulations, I hope you enjoy playing alone because a lot will quit.

Nerfing causes people to quit. This 10 year old relic needs no more reasons to quit.

No nerf ever attracted a new player before, but they certainly have cause many to quit.

This ruins the class, listen to the MASSES.

Nice try, but I'm a veteran nightblade player myself. These scoreboards are from me running 2 damage sets, and I still feel very tanky. Refreshing path, siphoning strikes, healthy offering, all keep me in the fight.

Tell me, you get double digit kill by range proc build or just get close by melee incap?

IncultaWolf · September 19

bladenick wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

ibeprofun wrote: »

You don't understand how nightblades play if that's what you think.

One example is every nighblade is annoyed over this should tell you something, so have some respect for nightblades and don't say half truths.

You said any nightblade can 2 shot kill out of stealth. Let me debunk this lie.

In order to 2 shot someone, you have to be wearing a pure dps set, meaning you are also vulnerable to being killed in one or 2 hits.

Second, since you can be one hit, if you are seen, you are dead. Since the ability drains magicka, you will now die because you are seen and you will also die because you probably have no magicka now.

This ruins the class.

If you get your wish and thus goes through, congratulations, I hope you enjoy playing alone because a lot will quit.

Nerfing causes people to quit. This 10 year old relic needs no more reasons to quit.

No nerf ever attracted a new player before, but they certainly have cause many to quit.

This ruins the class, listen to the MASSES.

Nice try, but I'm a veteran nightblade player myself. These scoreboards are from me running 2 damage sets, and I still feel very tanky. Refreshing path, siphoning strikes, healthy offering, all keep me in the fight.

Tell me, you get double digit kill by range proc build or just get close by melee incap?

No procs, just a duel wield melee build using two stat sets + mythic

silky_soft · September 19

Watching that duel, it doesn't look like you're playing at 250ms. It's so smooth. Why does no one ever show thier ping? Do you just never worry about it because it's always so low?

All the high pingers will move to potato ranged proc builds because it's hard enough now landing combos without the added lag of a toggle. The toggle is terrible and even fighting just npc they pull you from cloak with melee skills even if you down the road.

ibeprofun · September 19

These screenshots of the end of the bg don't show a lot.

Again, how do we know the other people weren't brand new? You can rack up kills vs bad teams, lol. I don't see how it applies, are you posting pictures to simply brag?

silky_soft · September 19

Just want to add that playing on the pts is much smoother as a high ping player. Even though ping is the same. I guess sever load is different.

bladenick · September 19

ibeprofun wrote: »

These screenshots of the end of the bg don't show a lot.

Again, how do we know the other people weren't brand new? You can rack up kills vs bad teams, lol. I don't see how it applies, are you posting pictures to simply brag?

He just range NB within good teammate , that very normal for a range dps NB

He just don’t admit it but I just aware his in game ID

VinnyGambini · September 19

bladenick wrote: »

ibeprofun wrote: »

These screenshots of the end of the bg don't show a lot.

Again, how do we know the other people weren't brand new? You can rack up kills vs bad teams, lol. I don't see how it applies, are you posting pictures to simply brag?

He just range NB within good teammate , that very normal for a range dps NB

He just don’t admit it but I just aware his in game ID

We know other ppl are veterans as well, we can see their names, those are experienced players. Also we can see they do over 2 milions dmg, newbies are never close to that numbers no matter what. This is 100% proof that these are TOP tier bgs. And we can see on the clip that he uses melee non proc build. STOP being delusional, cloak change is 100% deserved.

huskandhunger · September 19

ibeprofun wrote: »

These screenshots of the end of the bg don't show a lot.

Again, how do we know the other people weren't brand new? You can rack up kills vs bad teams, lol. I don't see how it applies, are you posting pictures to simply brag?

the players are long time players, we know by looking at their players ID. Inculta been long time nightblade main, so his voice is just as worth hearing as yours.

Nightblades can use leeching strike morph that gives Magicka and can adapt to cover the cost of the toggle, they will be fine ^^ 👍

Oldaraness · September 19

But... why I MUST play a tanky NB when this class isn't created to be tanky?
The real essence of a NB is to deal a lot of damage in short time, an assassin style... not a brawler tanky knight.
For this type of play there are other classes. The only class can be like an assassin is the NB but with this change (the toggle, not the nerf to regen mag) it lose this prerogative.

And I tell you, you are so excited to see a NB nerf but you don't think that this change will go in the opposit direction you want. With a toggle for Cloak you will see more bombers, more 2-3 NB working together and more ranged NB... exspecially the new ones.

Heren · September 19

ibeprofun wrote: »

listen to the MASSES.

But not the ones telling you otherwise, right ?

StaticWave · September 19

Oldaraness wrote: »

But... why I MUST play a tanky NB when this class isn't created to be tanky?
The real essence of a NB is to deal a lot of damage in short time, an assassin style... not a brawler tanky knight.

You see I completely agree with you, but that ship has long sailed. The current NB has access to everything and can play every role. You can slot Cloak on a tanky brawler and achieve the same 2-shot combo as a squishy NB. We’ve asked for NB’s tankiness to be adjusted but ZOS didn’t think so. So it looks like Cloak will be getting the nerf hammer for balance.

forum_gpt · September 19

IncultaWolf wrote: »

ibeprofun wrote: »

You don't understand how nightblades play if that's what you think.

One example is every nighblade is annoyed over this should tell you something, so have some respect for nightblades and don't say half truths.

You said any nightblade can 2 shot kill out of stealth. Let me debunk this lie.

In order to 2 shot someone, you have to be wearing a pure dps set, meaning you are also vulnerable to being killed in one or 2 hits.

Second, since you can be one hit, if you are seen, you are dead. Since the ability drains magicka, you will now die because you are seen and you will also die because you probably have no magicka now.

This ruins the class.

If you get your wish and thus goes through, congratulations, I hope you enjoy playing alone because a lot will quit.

Nerfing causes people to quit. This 10 year old relic needs no more reasons to quit.

No nerf ever attracted a new player before, but they certainly have cause many to quit.

This ruins the class, listen to the MASSES.

Nice try, but I'm a veteran nightblade player myself. These scoreboards are from me running 2 damage sets, and I still feel very tanky. Refreshing path, siphoning strikes, healthy offering, all keep me in the fight.

Low MMR

CameraBeardThePirate · September 19

forum_gpt wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

ibeprofun wrote: »

You don't understand how nightblades play if that's what you think.

One example is every nighblade is annoyed over this should tell you something, so have some respect for nightblades and don't say half truths.

You said any nightblade can 2 shot kill out of stealth. Let me debunk this lie.

In order to 2 shot someone, you have to be wearing a pure dps set, meaning you are also vulnerable to being killed in one or 2 hits.

Second, since you can be one hit, if you are seen, you are dead. Since the ability drains magicka, you will now die because you are seen and you will also die because you probably have no magicka now.

This ruins the class.

If you get your wish and thus goes through, congratulations, I hope you enjoy playing alone because a lot will quit.

Nerfing causes people to quit. This 10 year old relic needs no more reasons to quit.

No nerf ever attracted a new player before, but they certainly have cause many to quit.

This ruins the class, listen to the MASSES.

Nice try, but I'm a veteran nightblade player myself. These scoreboards are from me running 2 damage sets, and I still feel very tanky. Refreshing path, siphoning strikes, healthy offering, all keep me in the fight.

Low MMR

Confidently incorrect.

Thumbless_Bot · September 19

Everyone on every class loves it when they find a way to get an edge or become OP... or zos hands it to them on a silver platter like healthy offering. It feels good to go 30-0 in a high mmr bg. Everyone also complains when their admittedly unfair advantage is removed. Welcome to the club... long overdue mate.

CameraBeardThePirate · September 19

ibeprofun wrote: »

You don't understand how nightblades play if that's what you think.

One example is every nighblade is annoyed over this should tell you something, so have some respect for nightblades and don't say half truths.

You said any nightblade can 2 shot kill out of stealth. Let me debunk this lie.

In order to 2 shot someone, you have to be wearing a pure dps set, meaning you are also vulnerable to being killed in one or 2 hits.

Second, since you can be one hit, if you are seen, you are dead. Since the ability drains magicka, you will now die because you are seen and you will also die because you probably have no magicka now.

This ruins the class.

If you get your wish and thus goes through, congratulations, I hope you enjoy playing alone because a lot will quit.

Nerfing causes people to quit. This 10 year old relic needs no more reasons to quit.

No nerf ever attracted a new player before, but they certainly have cause many to quit.

This ruins the class, listen to the MASSES.

How about I debunk your post instead?

I've played Nightblade since launch, and don't really have an issue with this cloak change.

Nightblade can be a very tanky class even in 2 damage sets. They have one of the best burst heals in the game (Offering), one of the best HoTs in the game (Path), and nigh infinite sustain (Siphoning, Debilitate). They also have an ability that gives them a free dodge roll every few seconds, built-in Major and Minor Expedition for easy LoS, and don't need to waste a bar slot on their Major Resolve buff. On top of all of that, if you really want to, you can throw on Shade for a literal get-out-of-jail-free card.

Oh, and I almost forgot to mention that they have access to Minor Maim, Minor Cowardice, and Major Cowardice, heavily neutering the enemy's damage and healing.

You can throw on three damage sets (Order's, Rally, and Balorgh) along with a defensive mythic (say, Dov Rha or Markyn), and have more than enough damage to 2-shot people along with anywhere from 25k-33k resists and ~2k crit resist while still wearing 5 medium. You'll have incredibly high movement speed, incredible healing, cheap dodge rolls, and easy sustain.

That is not "squishy" by any stretch of the imagination, and has more than enough damage to 2 tap most players, while wearing 3 damage sets. No procs or ranged combos required.

Instead of relying too heavily on cloak for defense, learn how to leverage the many tools Nightblade has to make a proper build.

MincMincMinc · September 19

Ahh another nb copy thread to cover the same topics again. The world is not ending, this is only the first pts week. It will be touched on again. If you want to complain, make sure you are complaining about the correct aspect of the change before it gets locked in.

What is the worst and most oppressive part of the change?

Is changing to a toggle a bad thing? ......No it is a good QOL to not have to spend a gcd every 3s in a laggy environment.
Is the initial cost an issue? ....................I cant say so, infact it is less so weaving it for the buff will be cheaper.
Is the reoccuring cost an issue?.............Slightly since maintaining stealth now costs more....but that is what zos wanted.
Is the regen cut an issue?....................... YES IT IS A MAJOR ISSUE seriously, you should be ONLY complaining about this if anything. If this gets locked in it prevents any given player as a nightblade to choose whether they want to build regen to counter invis cost. ALSO, because of how regen ticks work. If you are weaving cloak in a rotation for 0.5s of stealth, there is a good chance of it landing on a regen tick. Making you lose an additional 2k+ of mag randomly in combat.

Vaqual · September 19

What you can learn from the last years of forum debate about cloak:

1) Cloak is overloaded and an OP tool, offensively and defensively
2) Cloak is unreliable and half of the time a waste of resources, a gcd and/or a slot
3) Cloak is easily sustainable
4) Cloak is impossible to sustain
5) The NB class falls apart without cloak
6) NB is OP even without cloak
7) Cloak is the big bad
8) Cloak is the big fun
9) Angry forum NBs speak for all NBs and therefore all NBs are evil

There have been countless threads of just people bombarding each other with opinions in total hysteria. Everyone makes it easy for the other side to disagree with them, because most opinions are either purely emotional or heavily biased. No matter how close to a concise evaluation of cloak any of these threads ever got, they were immediately derailed again by low value rage posting. This ability will remain forever annoying to its victims or its users, no matter what changes are being made, because half of the people don't even understand how to play with it or against it.

It may sound rough, but if I was a dev, I would also not take this stuff seriously.

Syiccal · September 19

Theist_VII wrote: »

ibeprofun wrote: »

You don't understand how nightblades play if that's what you think.

One example is every nighblade is annoyed over this should tell you something, so have some respect for nightblades and don't say half truths.

You said any nightblade can 2 shot kill out of stealth. Let me debunk this lie.

In order to 2 shot someone, you have to be wearing a pure dps set, meaning you are also vulnerable to being killed in one or 2 hits.

Second, since you can be one hit, if you are seen, you are dead.

Huh? I was fighting someone with Sea Serpents Coil and look how little damage their Jabs were doing, and then I proceeded to two-tap them.

Nightblades are extremely tanky when built right.

And what was this build....

CameraBeardThePirate · September 19

Syiccal wrote: »

Theist_VII wrote: »

ibeprofun wrote: »

You don't understand how nightblades play if that's what you think.

One example is every nighblade is annoyed over this should tell you something, so have some respect for nightblades and don't say half truths.

You said any nightblade can 2 shot kill out of stealth. Let me debunk this lie.

In order to 2 shot someone, you have to be wearing a pure dps set, meaning you are also vulnerable to being killed in one or 2 hits.

Second, since you can be one hit, if you are seen, you are dead.

Huh? I was fighting someone with Sea Serpents Coil and look how little damage their Jabs were doing, and then I proceeded to two-tap them.

Nightblades are extremely tanky when built right.

And what was this build....

Probably something along the lines of Rally/Order's with your pick of monster set and Mythic (I tend to prefer Balorghs and Dov Rha - plenty of resists, plenty of damage).

ZDunlain · September 19

ibeprofun wrote: »

When a class gets nerfed, the players get annoyed and ultimately some people will stop playing.

The shadowy disguise nerf is beyond a nerf - it ruins the class.

Nerfing never attracts new players.

Games this old don't get more popular, they eventually fizzle out. Nerfing only pisses off your player base which leads to people quitting. A 10 year old game needs no more reasons for people to quit. It's already 10 years old, no new players are looking for an arcane game that's been around forever with outdated graphics. It is not a good business decision to push people away.

Yeah but playing classes that are not op and gutted since u35 like templar or necro is less atractive to play when this is elder nigtblade/sorc online. Nerfs are needed.

gariondavey · September 20

The people erroneously calling out inculta have exposed themselves
Inculta (and camera, and static, and a few others on here) are experienced veteran players with high mechanical skill

MincMincMinc · September 20

gariondavey wrote: »

The people erroneously calling out inculta have exposed themselves
Inculta (and camera, and static, and a few others on here) are experienced veteran players with high mechanical skill

"But my favorite youtuber said its bad. I havent tested it yet, but i think it sounds like a bad idea"

I feel like this is 90% of the negative reactions we are seeing on here

AlterBlika · September 21

Nerfs are okay actually, everyone has become so overbuffed over the years