now time to fix Rush of Agony

Theignson

Ok, you addressed cloak, you nerfed Tarnished.

Now, please fix Rush of Agony. It is the worst set in PvP. Make it at least place a ground warning on the HUGE 12m area effect that it pulls people from. Right now it gives now warning at all.

Yes, there is a chain animation, but it is AFTER the 0.8 second delay so is useless for knowing to hold block etc.

Or, added a CC immunity so you cant be pulled 2, 3 times in a row and THEN stunned.

You can tell this set is OP because every single ball group or small scale uses it to farm pugs.


I am fine with this set if, like DC or other sets, it gives some warning, anything at all, rather than pulling you insane distances without warning into a ball inferno

CameraBeardThePirate

The warning is the person gap closing into your group. If you see someone gap close, hold block for a second.

Theignson

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The warning is the person gap closing into your group. If you see someone gap close, hold block for a second.

I don't usually run in a group. The problem is they gap close 12m away from me and if I don't happen to notice that, because I am fighting a bunch of other people in a large battlefield, then I can't hold block, so I get pulled. It is simply badly designed and out of step with all other pull sets.

If there was any clue whatsoever, like DC has, then of course I could hold block.

If it is just a troll group running around SEJ 12v1-ing random pugs, that's easy enough to avoid.

xylena_lazarow

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The warning is the person gap closing into your group. If you see someone gap close, hold block for a second.

Between this and the agrees, that's 5 VD explosions from trying to block the followup fear stun.

Poss

Just add cc immunity to it so you don’t get infinitely ping-ponged

Tcholl

Rush of Agony have just received a nerf and should not be touched for a good while now.

If you want to avoid the pull, must learn how to be aware and block.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Tcholl wrote: »

Rush of Agony have just received a nerf and should not be touched for a good while now.

If you want to avoid the pull, must learn how to be aware and block.

Be aware of what? there's no indicator, you just have to guess the guy who jumps might have the set on. ofc with a group you can assume this to be the case but in general it's not a good set design for PVP if you use the current standards they apply to other sets.

CameraBeardThePirate

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

The warning is the person gap closing into your group. If you see someone gap close, hold block for a second.

Between this and the agrees, that's 5 VD explosions from trying to block the followup fear stun.

If the person is pulling on someone else, and you block the pull, you'll be out of range of the fear if you were spread out as you should be.

If the person is pulling on you, and people get pulled into you to become VD fodder, you aren't spreading out as much as you should when it becomes apparent that an enemy is running rush.

Either way, the death is your own fault.

Aggrovious

Theignson wrote: »

Ok, you addressed cloak, you nerfed Tarnished.

Now, please fix Rush of Agony. It is the worst set in PvP. Make it at least place a ground warning on the HUGE 12m area effect that it pulls people from. Right now it gives now warning at all.

Yes, there is a chain animation, but it is AFTER the 0.8 second delay so is useless for knowing to hold block etc.

Or, added a CC immunity so you cant be pulled 2, 3 times in a row and THEN stunned.

You can tell this set is OP because every single ball group or small scale uses it to farm pugs.


I am fine with this set if, like DC or other sets, it gives some warning, anything at all, rather than pulling you insane distances without warning into a ball inferno

Its time to stop. No more nerfs

zammo

Poss wrote: »

Just add cc immunity to it so you don’t get infinitely ping-ponged

This is all it needs, and all it ever needed.

CrazyKitty

zammo wrote: »

Poss wrote: »

Just add cc immunity to it so you don’t get infinitely ping-ponged

This is all it needs, and all it ever needed.

RoA also needs a clear indicator of where it's happening so players have a chance to counter the set.

CameraBeardThePirate

CrazyKitty wrote: »

zammo wrote: »

Poss wrote: »

Just add cc immunity to it so you don’t get infinitely ping-ponged

This is all it needs, and all it ever needed.

RoA also needs a clear indicator of where it's happening so players have a chance to counter the set.

Again, the indicator is the group's spearhead gap closing into a pile. You really don't need more of an indicator than that.

Tcholl

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

Rush of Agony have just received a nerf and should not be touched for a good while now.

If you want to avoid the pull, must learn how to be aware and block.

Be aware of what? there's no indicator, you just have to guess the guy who jumps might have the set on. ofc with a group you can assume this to be the case but in general it's not a good set design for PVP if you use the current standards they apply to other sets.

Be aware of whoever is about to gap close on you or try to pull you somehow. You must always block those, no matter what. Try to understand what actually procs Rush and be more aware of what players do to proc it and you will be much more efficient in avoiding the pull. We don't always need a huge red circle to be able to avoid a mech or an attack.

Vaqual

The way things are going ZOS is just adding a weird counter proc set and consider it fixed:

Set of the Immovable Object:
2 items: Adds 3-129 kg
3 items: Adds 3-129 kg
4 items: Adds 3-129 kg
5 items: Increase your weight so drastically, that anyone trying to pull you will instead be launching themselves towards you. The target will travel a distance equal to your BMI and take fall damage upon landing.

zammo

CrazyKitty wrote: »

zammo wrote: »

Poss wrote: »

Just add cc immunity to it so you don’t get infinitely ping-ponged

This is all it needs, and all it ever needed.

RoA also needs a clear indicator of where it's happening so players have a chance to counter the set.

No indicator isn't what kills you. it's the second un-blockable actual CC that drops your own block and hits you immediately after the pull. You get stun locked and it's game over because you can't break free. If you had CC immunity from RoA, you casually walk away holding block taking a fraction of the damage.

JustLovely

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

zammo wrote: »

Poss wrote: »

Just add cc immunity to it so you don’t get infinitely ping-ponged

This is all it needs, and all it ever needed.

RoA also needs a clear indicator of where it's happening so players have a chance to counter the set.

Again, the indicator is the group's spearhead gap closing into a pile. You really don't need more of an indicator than that.

That is not a skill indicator. That is the ability to accurately guess the next things to happen in game.

RoA needs a visual que so that players know it's about to go off and where so they can react appropriately even if their back is turned to the ball group for the moment.

JustLovely

Vaqual wrote: »

The way things are going ZOS is just adding a weird counter proc set and consider it fixed:

Set of the Immovable Object:
2 items: Adds 3-129 kg
3 items: Adds 3-129 kg
4 items: Adds 3-129 kg
5 items: Increase your weight so drastically, that anyone trying to pull you will instead be launching themselves towards you. The target will travel a distance equal to your BMI and take fall damage upon landing.

Better yet, put a set in game that pulls the users of pull skills to you which causes an automatic bash for damage with an unblockable stun. If it's fair for RoA to function as it does now, it's fair to make a equal and opposite counter set.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Tcholl wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

Rush of Agony have just received a nerf and should not be touched for a good while now.

If you want to avoid the pull, must learn how to be aware and block.

Be aware of what? there's no indicator, you just have to guess the guy who jumps might have the set on. ofc with a group you can assume this to be the case but in general it's not a good set design for PVP if you use the current standards they apply to other sets.

Be aware of whoever is about to gap close on you or try to pull you somehow. You must always block those, no matter what. Try to understand what actually procs Rush and be more aware of what players do to proc it and you will be much more efficient in avoiding the pull. We don't always need a huge red circle to be able to avoid a mech or an attack.

The point here isn't about what proc's Rush it's about knowing that it has been proc'd to allow for reaction. Personally I don't care if it has an indicator or not (I think the problem is actually about the design of the set not cc'ing you) but in terms of ZOS's 'set standards' every effect like this should have 'counterplay options' according to them. This is why sets like Selenes monster helm have an indicator on the ground before the proc etc.

There should be an indicator that there will be a pull occurring (like there is with dark convergence).

You shouldn't have to guess 'this person might be wearing rush so I should block after every time they gapclose'.

Joy_Division

Tcholl wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

Rush of Agony have just received a nerf and should not be touched for a good while now.

If you want to avoid the pull, must learn how to be aware and block.

Be aware of what? there's no indicator, you just have to guess the guy who jumps might have the set on. ofc with a group you can assume this to be the case but in general it's not a good set design for PVP if you use the current standards they apply to other sets.

Be aware of whoever is about to gap close on you or try to pull you somehow. You must always block those, no matter what. Try to understand what actually procs Rush and be more aware of what players do to proc it and you will be much more efficient in avoiding the pull. We don't always need a huge red circle to be able to avoid a mech or an attack.

Justifications like these are why Cyrodiil's population is niche.

The advice here is that once I happen to get within 22 meters of the ball group, I have to always block? RIP stamina. RIP mobility. RIP actually doing anything offensively. RIP fun. RIP game.

Nothing else in the game makes such demands. Pick the best 1vXer in the game on the most powerful spec possible put me 22 meters away, and I will not be forced to take the fetal position just holding block. Have 12 randoms trying to 12v1 me and chase me, and I will not be forced to stand still and just hold block. Have 20 players fire siege at my position and I don't have to just stand there and hold block. Going through a breach defended by 40 players? Don;t have to stand and hold block.

You know why those "nerf ball group" threads keep coming up? Because we are holding block. And because that entails not moving, the organized group with its major expedition, while not succeeding in pulling us in, does nevertheless overrun the position we are standing. So now the fear, Whirling Blades, Dawnbreakers, Deep Fissures, etc,, kill us anyway.

The game provides obvious telegraphs such as big red circles in every other aspect of the game precisely to warn players that if we stand there (even holding block) we are at a high risk of dying. It is ridiculous the most by far lethal mechanic in Cyrodiil does not do this.

At the very least, RoA needs to follow other pull mechanics have in treating being forcibly moved as being crowd controlled. That would solve a lot of aggravation.

Before Rush of Agony, as powerful as organized groups were, they did not compel players to just stand there and hold block for fear that in the next half a second the group raid lead will pick their cardinal direction to gap close and then suck in everything 12 meters away. It was possible to get reasonably close to them, attack them, disrupt them, and use our mobility to get away from them without fear of getting sucked into their vortex of death. Organized groups are so much more oppressive and obnoxiously powerful. It is patently obviously and I know it from both sides because I have and do from time to time play in one. There is zero reason at all this set needs to violate ZOS's core mechanic of CC immunity when forcibly moved. It is precisely because organized groups take advantage of such blatantly exploitable sets that circumvent the fundamental principles of the game that organized groups are so mocked, derided, and disliked in ESO. I have friends that I like to play with in groups and I would much, much prefer if such nonsense didn't exist.

It is NOT fun.

CameraBeardThePirate

JustLovely wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

CrazyKitty wrote: »

zammo wrote: »

Poss wrote: »

Just add cc immunity to it so you don’t get infinitely ping-ponged

This is all it needs, and all it ever needed.

RoA also needs a clear indicator of where it's happening so players have a chance to counter the set.

Again, the indicator is the group's spearhead gap closing into a pile. You really don't need more of an indicator than that.

That is not a skill indicator. That is the ability to accurately guess the next things to happen in game.

RoA needs a visual que so that players know it's about to go off and where so they can react appropriately even if their back is turned to the ball group for the moment.

There's nothing to "guess" though??? You see someone gap close into your group > you hold block for exactly 1 second.

You probably shouldn't have your back to a ballgroup in the first place - they're generally the biggest threat on the field.

Tcholl

You do not have to perma block, just block the pull. As I have stated before, you do not need a big red circle to know what is coming. Ballgroups for example, will often have proxy on just before the pull. You will have the visual and audio feedback.

Also, when you are solo you can move quicker than a group and if you manage the distance you will not be pulled.

I really don't care about hate threads, regarding ballgroups of whatever. This is just the way this community is. Everyone complains about ballgroups, corrosive, cloak, streak, pyrebrand... If they do nerf rush, which I believe they won't, ballgroups will adapt to the next best strat to pull.

Tcholl

As per the counter play, from the top of my head, there is the Nibenay Bay Battlereeve Set set for example that gives you a massive shield to deal with the pull and allow time for reaction.

LPapirius

Tcholl wrote: »

As per the counter play, from the top of my head, there is the Nibenay Bay Battlereeve Set set for example that gives you a massive shield to deal with the pull and allow time for reaction.

As others have repeatedly pointed out, Nibenay will do nothing to prevent the massive damage ball groups lay down where the RoA has stacked players. Nothing will, and that's the problem. There is no counter to RoA. Once you're pulled, you're dead. And there is no indicator that you're about to be pulled.

Tcholl

No, nibenay will not save you by itself and nothing will. It all adds to what you want to do out there versus how you want to protect yourself. As I said, it was just an example of a counter from the top of my head. I have used this set and the shield is very strong. Personally, if I am playing solo and there is a good ballgroup around, I will leave them for another ballgroup to tackle and focus on something else. I would only attack them along the protection of a zerg.

You say that once you are pulled you are dead. Well, ballgroups use rush against each other and one thing we work very hard on is to recognize the pull and block. We clearly don't perma block, we must block at the right time.

I really don't want to go back and forward, since I have already stated my opinion and have nothing else to add to the thread at this moment.

I understand that players have a different opinions and respect the personal experience of everyone on this thread.

LPapirius

Tcholl wrote: »

No, nibenay will not save you by itself and nothing will. It all adds to what you want to do out there versus how you want to protect yourself. As I said, it was just an example of a counter from the top of my head. I have used this set and the shield is very strong. Personally, if I am playing solo and there is a good ballgroup around, I will leave them for another ballgroup to tackle and focus on something else. I would only attack them along the protection of a zerg.

You say that once you are pulled you are dead. Well, ballgroups use rush against each other and one thing we work very hard on is to recognize the pull and block. We clearly don't perma block, we must block at the right time.

I really don't want to go back and forward, since I have already stated my opinion and have nothing else to add to the thread at this moment.

I understand that players have a different opinions and respect the personal experience of everyone on this thread.

Players in ball groups have at minimum 15 HoT's on them at all times. What was your point again?

Tcholl

Tcholl wrote: »

Rush of Agony have just received a nerf and should not be touched for a good while now.

If you want to avoid the pull, must learn how to be aware and block.

This is my point, it is on my first post. All the others were to reply to someone else`s quote. I have nothing else to add at this point and respect your point of view regarding rush and ballgroups.

xylena_lazarow

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

If the person is pulling on someone else, and you block the pull, you'll be out of range of the fear if you were spread out as you should be.

FTFY

The counter isn't "just block" it's to see the rush coming and already be out of range. By telling people to "just block" and ignoring all the awareness and positioning required to counter one single button pressed by a mass zerger whose gear handles awareness and positioning for them, you're doing a massive disservice to less experienced players.

And if you're letting yourself sit that close, better hope there isn't a 2nd rush pull fear combo coming.

Red_Nine

Rush of Agony pulls from much farther away than the 12m specified for this set.

TankHealz2015

Agreed.
1. Add a visual indicator.
2. Add CC immunity

"Just block" is not a legitimate or honest response. Because, often times bugs/lags/weird conflicts prevent your block from working or force you to drop block or make you simply not respond.

I will go a step further and say in my opinion, I'd like to see skills/sets that do both utility and DPS weakened. And make skills/sets that only do utility stronger.

Skills/sets that cause you to lose control over your character have immense power. This power should be treated with a heavier weight of value.

Thumbless_Bot

JustLovely wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

The way things are going ZOS is just adding a weird counter proc set and consider it fixed:

Set of the Immovable Object:
2 items: Adds 3-129 kg
3 items: Adds 3-129 kg
4 items: Adds 3-129 kg
5 items: Increase your weight so drastically, that anyone trying to pull you will instead be launching themselves towards you. The target will travel a distance equal to your BMI and take fall damage upon landing.

Better yet, put a set in game that pulls the users of pull skills to you which causes an automatic bash for damage with an unblockable stun. If it's fair for RoA to function as it does now, it's fair to make a equal and opposite counter set.

These are both really good ideas. I mean, I know the first is sort of a joke, but it's not a bad idea in general.

MincMincMinc

Theignson wrote: »

Yes, there is a chain animation, but it is AFTER the 0.8 second delay so is useless for knowing to hold block etc.

What are you trying to design a functioning counterplay mechanic? On a dlc set? Heresy.

Instead I think they should completely get rid of the animation and instead make every other non important animation in the game even flashier. That should help players not understand what is going on.