Original tutorial is back, "new" one retired. Is there a chance of getting DLC tuts back again?

Northwold

Ilumia wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Personally, I think the portal cave made the new player experience even worse than starting in a chapter (which itself was not a good idea since people then didn't realise the game had a main quest, making for a truly horrible introduction to the game).

With the portal cave, the game said "you can start here, here or here", without any indication whatever of what that would entail and, again, hiding that there was a main quest. Instead of one confusing situation, it allowed new players to choose between *many* confusing situations with no guidance whatever!

I haven't ever been there, so I didn't know it didn't include the main quest. I just assumed it did since that makes the most sense, and I also assumed it was sort of highlighted in a way that said: "start here if you're completely new to eso, it's the main quest".
It does sound like an illogical decision not to describe things better and include main quest.

When I played it the main quest WAS there but *without* saying "this is ESO's main quest for goodness sake start here". I don't know if it was updated since then. But I remember thinking "how would I understand that this is the option a new player should choose from what's written here?"

DTLight

xclassgaming wrote: »

All old tutorials should be turned into side quests or made into the 1st step of the main quest of the zone

100% this would be grand, have it be either part of the prologue, or before or after it? obviously you'd need to cut out the "block his attack!" type of stuff, but y'know, can't be that hard I'd imagine?

Renato90085

I went back to one of these at pts today
it mean zos can add them back at any time

Dahveed

Renato90085 wrote: »

I went back to one of these at pts today
it mean zos can add them back at any time

The original ones are still available on the PTS? Which one did you go to?

Finedaible

The original tutorial coming back in addition to all these new "tentpole systems" these last two years has me wondering just how much longer they plan to keep adding content to ESO. I mean, the Balfiera tutorial was set up to be expandable and suddenly they are scrapping it?... Seems a bit sus. As much as I prefer the original tutorial for story continuity, it seems odd they would discard all that work. Looks an awful lot like ESO is being set up for maintenance mode before they announce whatever their next project is.

Renato90085

starhaven in elsweyr
but not the tutorial just place from new khajiit companion quest

karthrag_inak

So much work and rework on beginning tutorials, so much delightful quest content that is blocked from general consumption -khajiit really wishes he could do all intro quests on all his characters.

And yet still there is dungy "Cadwell Silver" and "Cadwell Gold" aki'i lafana permanently blocking a quest slot from 14 of this one's 19 khajiit and 1 argonian (with fluffy delusions) after they have gone through all the starter and main quests. Could these not be made more convenient/dropable?

Syldras

karthrag_inak wrote: »

So much work and rework on beginning tutorials, so much delightful quest content that is blocked from general consumption

That's a thing I always found baffling. Why invest all that time and effort, including writing and voice acting, and then just trash it?

heaven13

I’m really sad to see the movies/cinematics being dropped. We keep losing stuff to make room for more stuff, and those cinematics were great introductions to the different zones/conflict in each area. I really think it’s great we’re getting the old tutorial back though because I think it’s the best starter experience to the game, I just wish it didn’t mean completely cutting this other thing out.

Northwold

Finedaible wrote: »

The original tutorial coming back in addition to all these new "tentpole systems" these last two years has me wondering just how much longer they plan to keep adding content to ESO. I mean, the Balfiera tutorial was set up to be expandable and suddenly they are scrapping it?... Seems a bit sus. As much as I prefer the original tutorial for story continuity, it seems odd they would discard all that work. Looks an awful lot like ESO is being set up for maintenance mode before they announce whatever their next project is.

There was a lot of detailed comment here and elsewhere about how incomprehensible and unpleasant ESO was for new players. It looks like they listened. The Balfiera tutorial simply was not good at guiding new players into the game.

Remember that ESO was originally built with a main quest to get you to level 50, and that main quest *really works very well* to achieve that. It is about the *only* thing in the game that gives the whole experience structure and gives new players guidance.

With ANY of the new tutorials, the game was pretty much *hiding* the existence of the main quest, and it was getting more and more awful the more chapters got added. I dropped the game twice when I started because I couldn't understand how anything worked, was jumping into base zone story segments out of order without realising it so they made no sense, etc. It just made the game a really unpleasant experience. I can't imagine I was the only new player who walked away.

Far from going into maintenance mode, this feels like a recognition that ESO has *got* to do something pretty drastic to fix the new player experience. It feels like it was this -- ie let the main quest do what the main quest was *designed* to do -- or devise a truly massive new introductory storyline.

Beilin_Balreis_Colcan

Mik195 wrote: »

I think the combat tutorial in Balfora (and I think Elswyr had one too) was helpful. The original tutorial is possible to finish without knowing how to block, roll, heavy attack.

I'd like to see ZOS add a combat tutorial that new players can access and repeat as needed. Maybe at level 1, you figured out interrupting but by level 8, you forgot so back to the tutorial to relearn.

A repeatable combat tutorial would be great, especially if introduced in a lore-friendly manner (e.g. by dialogue with someone in a mages' or fighter's guildhall of your character's alliance).

TopHatFeter

N00BxV1 wrote: »

I'd love it if my main character who was created at launch in 2014 could finally be allowed to complete the Morrowind tutorial and get that skill point that I'm unable to get... Sure it's only one skill point, but this should've never happened...

Afaik you aren't missing it. It's the skill point given during the tutorial. If your launch character got the wailing prison shyshard then you're good. Bc anyone who played the Morrowind tutorial just got that shyshard instead of the wailing prison one.

Varana

Finedaible wrote: »

The original tutorial coming back in addition to all these new "tentpole systems" these last two years has me wondering just how much longer they plan to keep adding content to ESO. I mean, the Balfiera tutorial was set up to be expandable and suddenly they are scrapping it?... Seems a bit sus. As much as I prefer the original tutorial for story continuity, it seems odd they would discard all that work. Looks an awful lot like ESO is being set up for maintenance mode before they announce whatever their next project is.

When it comes to the possibility of expanding the tutorial, nothing beats the original Coldharbour one. It's a multi-stage quest in a somewhat open area. If you wanted to include tutorials for all sorts of stuff, it would be easy to do so. That's also just what they did - they updated the quest to include the tutorial bits that they developed over the years.

Balfiera was much closer to the chapter tutorials - very small area (with one exception (the open courtyard)), very brief quest, minimal dialogue. But Balfiera had the additional issue that it had absolutely nothing to do with ESO at all, story-wise. It was as generic as you can get. They could've called the "tower" (it's not a tower, it's a series of rooms) any name and place it anywhere on Tamriel, and the "story" could've stayed the same. The chapter tutorials, because they were tied to that chapter's main quest and conflict, had at least a connection to what's actually happening in the game.

As for discarding stuff, they have been doing that regularly, retiring the chapter tutorials after only one year. It doesn't have to be a sign of the end when they do the same to a bad idea.

ADarklore

It would be odd to have a 'tutorial' after you already completed the 'tutorial' for the MSQ. I mean, they are not technically introductions to the new DLC/Zones- those are the 'starter quests'- the tutorials were there for nothing more than to explain to new players about mechanics. Whereas the MSQ intro tutorial was both a tutorial and introduction to the game and kept the story on track... I hated it when they changed it to make it drop you in the new zone. Or the last one, that dropped you into an area that gave you TOO MANY options- which would be rough on a new player who had no clue where they should start. It was totally confusing for them... and yet... most of the people complaining about this change are existing players. Yet, we've seen many posts over the years from new players now understanding where to go, where to start, BECAUSE ZOS had change the introduction and left new players with too many options and no clear path. Bringing back the original tutorial/intro was the best decision they could make IMO.

Beilin_Balreis_Colcan

Varana wrote: »

Balfiera was much closer to the chapter tutorials - very small area (with one exception (the open courtyard)), very brief quest, minimal dialogue. But Balfiera had the additional issue that it had absolutely nothing to do with ESO at all, story-wise. It was as generic as you can get. They could've called the "tower" (it's not a tower, it's a series of rooms) any name and place it anywhere on Tamriel, and the "story" could've stayed the same.

The Isle of Balfiera is definitely part of the Elder Scrolls **and** ESO lore, with a very specific location:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Isle_of_Balfiera

Syldras

vsrs_au wrote: »

The Isle of Balfiera is definitely part of the Elder Scrolls **and** ESO lore, with a very specific location:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Isle_of_Balfiera

I think the person you quoted means that the last tutorial has no relation to any other quest/topic/event in the game. And I agree with that. It's a concluded story that leads to nothing else. I don't think that's a good way to introduce people into a story.

TaSheen

I'm just so over the whole Mannimarco/Molag Bal thing. Good thing I'm not planning to make any more accounts, because I'm just not going to do that tutorial ever again. Or any of the other stuff in the "main" storyline. Twice was MORE than enough.... and in fact, I completely disliked the original tutorial from the very first moment I played a new character in this game. And it took me 3 years (at least) to finish the "main" quest line....

[I very much prefer Mannimarco in Daggerfall, personally.]

Varana

vsrs_au wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

Balfiera was much closer to the chapter tutorials - very small area (with one exception (the open courtyard)), very brief quest, minimal dialogue. But Balfiera had the additional issue that it had absolutely nothing to do with ESO at all, story-wise. It was as generic as you can get. They could've called the "tower" (it's not a tower, it's a series of rooms) any name and place it anywhere on Tamriel, and the "story" could've stayed the same.

The Isle of Balfiera is definitely part of the Elder Scrolls **and** ESO lore, with a very specific location:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Isle_of_Balfiera

What Syldras said.
I meant that the story has nothing to do with any of ESO's other stories.
Also, while the island of Balfiera does exist in Tamriel, the tutorial quest could have taken place anywhere else. There's nothing really in it that connects it to what Balfiera is about, and (I just realised) it doesn't even take place in the Adamantine Tower.

Razmirra

I miss doing the Elsweyr and Morrowind tutorials the most. The former was the only place you could get the wooden training sword and you no longer can. One of my GMs saved a bunch of them (over 100) for military focused RP, so they were glad they would come in handy in the future.

Syldras

It's a pity they don't just let us choose. Wouldn't be hard if the old ones still exist anyway.

After such a long time, I'd like to play the ones for Morrowind and Greymoor again.

laniakea_0

I'm really glad they are bringing back the original tutorial. I get that ESO tries to embrace the "go anywhere, do anything" philosophy but there are some things that just need to stay in order for things to make sense. and now you finally get spat out in the starter zone again after you've been to Coldharbour. it made no sense that the portal at the end of the previous one would lead there.
but still: I hope one of the reasons they are doing this is because they want to use Balfiera for something else.

TaintedKurse

Would be nice if you could just pick which tutorial you want at start. Like I understand if they only want you to be able to get 1 skill point for it but, would be great if we could at least choose.

Also, if the issue isn't too many free skill points. Then as others have said they should just give us alternate ways to start the quest. Like through the crown store like the prequels or in game in the zone it corresponds with.

Syldras

TaintedKurse wrote: »

Would be nice if you could just pick which tutorial you want at start

Yes. There's no reason why there couldn't be a list to choose from. I can understand labelling the Coldharbour thing as the "main" tutorial so new players would choose that for a start, but if someone is creating alts, I don't see a reason why they should be forced to start with the same story each time.

RunningShadow

Syldras wrote: »

The old intro videos were awesome too, btw. There should be a way to view them without having to go to Youtube.

If you're on PC then here's an addon for that, CinematicPortal. It'll probably not work after the patch drops though, as ZOS said in the PTS notes that they're going to remove the portal movies from the files with U44.

huskandhunger

I like original tutorial with Lyris and prophet and cold harbour too ^^

katanagirl1

Syldras wrote: »

It's a pity they don't just let us choose. Wouldn't be hard if the old ones still exist anyway.

After such a long time, I'd like to play the ones for Morrowind and Greymoor again.

I agree that restoring the old tutorial was the best thing to do. I would be happy if they just opened up all the old tutorial areas up so you could look around. I don’t even want to do the quests. I remember finding the door to the one in Western Skyrim and not being able to open it. I’d like to see the one in Elsweyr too.

ElderOfTamriel

Is there a list with all the dlc tutorials? Which was the first one of them? Morrowind?

tomofhyrule

ElderOfTamriel wrote: »

Is there a list with all the dlc tutorials? Which was the first one of them? Morrowind?

Morrowind was the first, and then there was one per Chapter until Blackwood gave us Balfiera.

I even think that *** was originally planned for Blackwood to have a zone tutorial but that was scrapped, since the portal from Balfiera dropped you off outside a random Ayleid ruin (that looked like it could have been the tutorial exit) and the questgiver dude was also randomly right there.

—

I don’t miss Balfiera. It’d be nice to see that back for a reason (the map is made and it’d be a decent size for a group dungeon…), but the tutorial was so generic. The original zone tutorials though referenced parts of their respective quests that made doing the stories awkward if you didn’t do them… like how you get to tell someone in the NElsweyr questline “oh, this works like the dragonhorn at Star Haven Adeptorium! (despite never being there…)” or the fact that the Greymoor tutorial was the only place you actually learned how to close Harrowstorms. Morrowind’s also was cool since that involved two mutually-exclusive quests for the Seyda Neen objective whether you did the tutorial or not.

But it is interesting that they did reuse the Adeptorium map, for those who have done Zerith’s questline. At least it’s not fully gone.

IsharaMeradin

The tutorials should be re-introduced as RP ways of getting to the respective story zone. For example, the player gets a letter about Morrowind, they read the letter, they're given a quest to meet someone in Morrowind, they take the navigator to get there. Instead of just appearing in Morrowind, the load screen opens to the player sitting on the boat as the shipwreck happens around them. The player finally awakens in the locked room.

They don't have to take all our stuff from us, they could use a polymorph or disguise to make it appear that our gear was removed. There are plenty of quests that already do that type of thing.

ElderOfTamriel

So, for all those DLC's a tutorial quest existed?
Morrowind
Horns of the Reach
The Clockwork City
Dragon Bones
Summerset
Wolfhunter
Murkmire
Wrathstone
Elsweyr
Scalebreaker
Dragonhold
Harrowstorm
Greymoor
Stonethorn
Markarth
Flames of Ambition
Blackwood