Companions up for purchase, really?

Mik195

robwolf666 wrote: »

I thought I heard them say they were free to claim in the store, but I guess they meant for ESO+ members.

Depending on the price, I might look at the Khajiit, he sounds interesting. [Snip].

If the cost is something like 5k though, not a chance. The days of me spending that much on single item content are long over.

[Snip]

No one is going to make you interact with this companion and you can have whatever kind of head canon you like. I generally refer to Baston as "Stupid" and Ember as "Whiney."

[Edited quote and for removed content]

LaintalAy

People are happy enough to waste money on temporary, digital assets.
Like everything else, there's an expectation of quality and usability.

Generally speaking, not many people like being misled.

Erickson9610

It doesn't bother me that Companions are sold separately from the Chapter. I would've chosen to get those Companions whether they come from the Chapter or otherwise. And, I don't really care that the overall content of the Chapter has dropped relative to how it was a few years ago.


I'm glad we don't have so many filler DLC dungeons taking up Q1 and Q3. Instead of a release schedule which fragmented the year's story between 4 dungeons, 1 Chapter, and 1 story zone, we had a story take place over two Chapters, similar in a sense to the Daedric War arc.

Instead of having to pay for the Q4 DLC to get its content (like Vateshran Hollows), we get some system update like the Infinite Archive or revamped Battlegrounds for the base game. Now that ZOS isn't filling in the map so quickly, we can have a few more years of Chapters fill the map instead.


I genuinely think it's better this way. If anything, this makes the Crown Store Companions more accessible to new players — players are more likely to know of the Crown Store Companions' existence. If you only adventure in the base game zones (such as due to lack of DLC), you'll never discover your own Companion, but now players can easily acquire some Companions without the need for those zone DLCs by using the Crown Store.

Syldras

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I genuinely think it's better this way. If anything, this makes the Crown Store Companions more accessible to new players — players are more likely to know of the Crown Store Companions' existence.

The first years I played ESO, I never looked into the crown store, except if I there was a Q4 story release to buy (and then I only looked for the dlc, bought that and didn't look at the rest). I just started with that when I subscribed to ESO+ (yes, I played several years without) for storage bag and double furniture limit, and had subscription crowns to spend.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If you only adventure in the base game zones (such as due to lack of DLC), you'll never discover your own Companion, but now players can easily acquire some Companions without the need for those zone DLCs by using the Crown Store.

They could have offered them for sale seperately for people who aren't interested in buying the chapter, while still giving them for free to chapter buyers.

Erickson9610

Syldras wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

If you only adventure in the base game zones (such as due to lack of DLC), you'll never discover your own Companion, but now players can easily acquire some Companions without the need for those zone DLCs by using the Crown Store.

They could have offered them for sale seperately for people who aren't interested in buying the chapter, while still giving them for free to chapter buyers.

Gold Road was never intended to have 2 Companions included in it. Each Companion in previous years would have a spot in the zone where their quest kicks off, and then the rest of their quests would usually be in base game zones. Finally, they'd show up at the end-of-story celebration party if they weren't your active Companion.

Gold Road has no more room on that tiny balcony to fit two more characters. West Weald also has no more remaining locales for the Companions to wait for the Player to come recruit them.

We aren't owed these Companions. ZOS only said that the Companions were pushed to Q4. Many of us thought we'd be owed these Companions, but we're not. If we still had Q4 story zone releases, we'd imagine the Companion would've been located there somewhere — and those DLCs can be used for free with ESO+. Hence, we can get these Companions for free with ESO+, or pay a separate fee which would probably be equal to that of the Q4 story zone DLCs we used to buy.

Syldras wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I genuinely think it's better this way. If anything, this makes the Crown Store Companions more accessible to new players — players are more likely to know of the Crown Store Companions' existence.

The first years I played ESO, I never looked into the crown store, except if I there was a Q4 story release to buy (and then I only looked for the dlc, bought that and didn't look at the rest). I just started with that when I subscribed to ESO+ (yes, I played several years without) for storage bag and double furniture limit, and had subscription crowns to spend.

If a new player this year won't look in the Crown Store, there's no way they'd buy Blackwood, High Isle, or the Telvanni Peninsula/Apocrypha DLCs and then happen to stumble across one of the Companions in those zones. By putting the Companions directly in the Crown Store, players don't have to discover where those Companions are located. You'd have to use the Crown Store to get any Companions, because all of the old Companions are part of old Chapters which are now sold for Crowns in the Crown Store.

SeaGtGruff

If the new companions will be recruited in base-game zones-- Auridon and Reaper's March-- and if recruiting them does not require the Gold Road chapter nor any other non-base-game content, then I stand by what I suggested earlier:

This seems like it could be ZOS's attempt to help make companions accessible to more players-- in particular, those who have only the base game and any former chapters (Morrowind) or DLCs (Imperial City, etc.) that are now free or were temporarily free for players to acquire. If you think about it, all previous companions have been inaccessible to those players, so they've been unable to enjoy the benefits of recruiting companions. By having companions which are totally separate from any DLC or chapter, and which can be picked up from the Crown Store just like a mount, non-combat pet, hair style, houseguest, etc., this enables more players to acquire a companion and enjoy questing and fighting with them.

As for pricing-- we'll see, but I would certainly hope that the new companions would cost less than, say, one of the smaller DLCs, perhaps more along the lines of a mount or a houseguest (for players without ESO Plus).

In short, this could be viewed as a positive thing, rather than looked at in a purely negative light.

tindomiel4

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

im happy that people with eso+ will be able to get them for free instead of paying out for them, there were a lot of complaints on the forum that eso+ did not have enough value so this is the decision they made to change that

If they honor their statement on the forums that you retain access to companions even if you let go of Plus, this doesn't add a whole lot to an ongoing subscription, unfortunately.

Erickson9610

tindomiel4 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

im happy that people with eso+ will be able to get them for free instead of paying out for them, there were a lot of complaints on the forum that eso+ did not have enough value so this is the decision they made to change that

If they honor their statement on the forums that you retain access to companions even if you let go of Plus, this doesn't add a whole lot to an ongoing subscription, unfortunately.

Would people really want to potentially lose access to their Companions if their membership lapses? Why should the value of the ESO+ subscription be a higher priority than user quality of life?

Syldras

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Gold Road was never intended to have 2 Companions included in it. Each Companion in previous years would have a spot in the zone where their quest kicks off, and then the rest of their quests would usually be in base game zones. Finally, they'd show up at the end-of-story celebration party if they weren't your active Companion.
Gold Road has no more room on that tiny balcony to fit two more characters. West Weald also has no more remaining locales for the Companions to wait for the Player to come recruit them.

That doesn't change that they could give them away for free - even when not included in the zone - to Gold Road buyers, just because otherwise it means they got less for their money. Again. That's the point: It's getting less and less value while still costing the same price. This year didn't even have two zones, but only one. And yes, I know that Vvardenfell and Summerset also only had 1 zone, but the maps were bigger and the number of quests higher - I'm fine with either: one big map or two small ones, but this year it was only one small map. Also: The number of quests also decreases every year.

Erickson9610 wrote: »

By putting the Companions directly in the Crown Store, players don't have to discover where those Companions are located. You'd have to use the Crown Store to get any Companions, because all of the old Companions are part of old Chapters which are now sold for Crowns in the Crown Store.

I've written in my last post that I have no problem at all with putting companions into the store as an optional buy for people who aren't chapter owners (and chapter owners should still get them free, just so they still get the same value as the years before). I'm also fine with selling chapter classes seperately, or even if they just sold jewelry crafting seperately.

colossalvoids

It's been some years already when we had companions as a built in feature no matter we wanted it or not with the purchase, no wonder it had it's end sooner or later. It sucks but everything ends in crown store eventually, that's ESO.

tindomiel4

Erickson9610 wrote: »

It doesn't bother me that Companions are sold separately from the Chapter. I would've chosen to get those Companions whether they come from the Chapter or otherwise. And, I don't really care that the overall content of the Chapter has dropped relative to how it was a few years ago.


I'm glad we don't have so many filler DLC dungeons taking up Q1 and Q3. Instead of a release schedule which fragmented the year's story between 4 dungeons, 1 Chapter, and 1 story zone, we had a story take place over two Chapters, similar in a sense to the Daedric War arc.

I think the problem for many is that we have less content (whether you class it as filler or not) but are expected to pay the same amount of money.

ragnarok6644b14_ESO

tindomiel4 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

It doesn't bother me that Companions are sold separately from the Chapter. I would've chosen to get those Companions whether they come from the Chapter or otherwise. And, I don't really care that the overall content of the Chapter has dropped relative to how it was a few years ago.


I'm glad we don't have so many filler DLC dungeons taking up Q1 and Q3. Instead of a release schedule which fragmented the year's story between 4 dungeons, 1 Chapter, and 1 story zone, we had a story take place over two Chapters, similar in a sense to the Daedric War arc.

I think the problem for many is that we have less content (whether you class it as filler or not) but are expected to pay the same amount of money.

Is that better or worse than having the same amount of content for more money, like all the food I've been buying lately?

Erickson9610

Syldras wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Gold Road was never intended to have 2 Companions included in it. Each Companion in previous years would have a spot in the zone where their quest kicks off, and then the rest of their quests would usually be in base game zones. Finally, they'd show up at the end-of-story celebration party if they weren't your active Companion.
Gold Road has no more room on that tiny balcony to fit two more characters. West Weald also has no more remaining locales for the Companions to wait for the Player to come recruit them.

That doesn't change that they could give them away for free - even when not included in the zone - to Gold Road buyers, just because otherwise it means they got less for their money. Again. That's the point: It's getting less and less value while still costing the same price. This year didn't even have two zones, but only one. And yes, I know that Vvardenfell and Summerset also only had 1 zone, but the maps were bigger and the number of quests higher - I'm fine with either: one big map or two small ones, but this year it was only one small map. Also: The number of quests also decreases every year.

There is no mandated amount of content that must be squeezed into every Chapter. The perceived value may be dropping, but that is not ZOS's responsibility to fix. It's perfectly reasonable for players to voice their concerns about this, but I'd like to voice my own thoughts on this matter, too.

What ZOS offers in each Chapter is what we get. There's no obligation to be given more for the same price. Scribing in particular is a very big feature, though perhaps not to some people on the surface level. It was big enough to warrant delaying the Companions to Q4 — and I personally have no issue with that. I'd buy those Companions anyway, because I like what ZOS is offering for sale.

It is what it is, and I have no right to tell ZOS that they shouldn't charge me more for what I used to get. I can't just negotiate with ZOS for lower prices or more content — I'm in no position to do that. I could choose to not buy these things — but I still will, because I still want to buy these things.

Necrotech_Master

tindomiel4 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

im happy that people with eso+ will be able to get them for free instead of paying out for them, there were a lot of complaints on the forum that eso+ did not have enough value so this is the decision they made to change that

If they honor their statement on the forums that you retain access to companions even if you let go of Plus, this doesn't add a whole lot to an ongoing subscription, unfortunately.

zos kevin has already confirmed if you claim the companions while you have eso+ they are permanent for your acct

you never lose access to something you get from the crown store, its not like a DLC which is conditionally given if you have eso+, the new companions have to be claimed from the crown store in order to access them, even if you have eso+

it wont be any different than say the imperial city DLC, which was made free some many years ago but still has to be claimed from the crown store to access outside of ESO+, even though that is free for everyone now

spartaxoxo

ragnarok6644b14_ESO wrote: »

tindomiel4 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

It doesn't bother me that Companions are sold separately from the Chapter. I would've chosen to get those Companions whether they come from the Chapter or otherwise. And, I don't really care that the overall content of the Chapter has dropped relative to how it was a few years ago.


I'm glad we don't have so many filler DLC dungeons taking up Q1 and Q3. Instead of a release schedule which fragmented the year's story between 4 dungeons, 1 Chapter, and 1 story zone, we had a story take place over two Chapters, similar in a sense to the Daedric War arc.

I think the problem for many is that we have less content (whether you class it as filler or not) but are expected to pay the same amount of money.

Is that better or worse than having the same amount of content for more money, like all the food I've been buying lately?

I mean grocery store prices are also a problem in some countries, including mine? But, this is a video game forum. So, the video game is the focus.

SilverBride

When will these new Companions be available?

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

When will these new Companions be available?

ESO_News_Page wrote:

The Update 44 base-game patch arrives October 28 for PC/Mac and November 13 for Xbox and PlayStation consoles.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66701

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

When will these new Companions be available?

ESO_News_Page wrote:

The Update 44 base-game patch arrives October 28 for PC/Mac and November 13 for Xbox and PlayStation consoles.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/66701

Thanks!

tindomiel4

Erickson9610 wrote: »

tindomiel4 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

im happy that people with eso+ will be able to get them for free instead of paying out for them, there were a lot of complaints on the forum that eso+ did not have enough value so this is the decision they made to change that

If they honor their statement on the forums that you retain access to companions even if you let go of Plus, this doesn't add a whole lot to an ongoing subscription, unfortunately.

Would people really want to potentially lose access to their Companions if their membership lapses? Why should the value of the ESO+ subscription be a higher priority than user quality of life?

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. I accept that the companions add a short-term value to ESO Plus, since having Plus is one way to access claiming them. *So far as they've said right now*, you can claim your companions while you have Plus, then let go of Plus without losing access to the companions. So once you claim them, you no longer need ESO Plus. So I don't see it as adding much value long-term. If ZOS goes back on their word, of course, that will be different.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

zos kevin has already confirmed if you claim the companions while you have eso+ they are permanent for your acct

you never lose access to something you get from the crown store, its not like a DLC which is conditionally given if you have eso+, the new companions have to be claimed from the crown store in order to access them, even if you have eso+

it wont be any different than say the imperial city DLC, which was made free some many years ago but still has to be claimed from the crown store to access outside of ESO+, even though that is free for everyone now

Yes, I agree. That's why I don't see companions as adding much long-term value to ESO Plus. No one (as far as we know) will need to keep paying for Plus just to keep the companions. Though if they decide not to keep them in the Crown Store permanently, I will be incorrect in this.

(I think I'm agreeing with both of you that I've quoted. We just may be looking at it from different angles.)

laniakea_0

it's not only that we still pay the same for the chapter even though there's less content in it, it's also that with them releasing in Q4 at an additional cost, we are paying more for the same amount at a longer wait time!

This is unacceptable ZOS! [snip]
[edited for bashing]

Necrotech_Master

laniakea_0 wrote: »

it's not only that we still pay the same for the chapter even though there's less content in it, it's also that with them releasing in Q4 at an additional cost, we are paying more for the same amount at a longer wait time!

This is unacceptable ZOS! [snip]

if you have eso+ its 100% free, so there is no additional cost

tindomiel4 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

zos kevin has already confirmed if you claim the companions while you have eso+ they are permanent for your acct

you never lose access to something you get from the crown store, its not like a DLC which is conditionally given if you have eso+, the new companions have to be claimed from the crown store in order to access them, even if you have eso+

it wont be any different than say the imperial city DLC, which was made free some many years ago but still has to be claimed from the crown store to access outside of ESO+, even though that is free for everyone now

Yes, I agree. That's why I don't see companions as adding much long-term value to ESO Plus. No one (as far as we know) will need to keep paying for Plus just to keep the companions. Though if they decide not to keep them in the Crown Store permanently, I will be incorrect in this.

(I think I'm agreeing with both of you that I've quoted. We just may be looking at it from different angles.)

for me, i actually enjoy using the companions, assuming the unlock quests are not ridiculous (and its annoying they will still have a per character unlock quest that needs to be done even after acquiring them from the store)

the passives are basically also permanent account upgrades too, i would be really nice to have a permenant keen eye for heavy sacks from the new companion for example

i dont know what the plan is, but its unlikely they will be removed from the store, i think they will be permanent inclusions much like the assistants

[edited to remove quote]

LaintalAy

Does access to Azander (arcanist class) require a purchased copy of Necrom?

Erickson9610

LaintalAy wrote: »

Does access to Azander (arcanist class) require a purchased copy of Necrom?

Arcanist is now sold separately in the Crown Store. You don't get the Arcanist Class from buying Necrom, now that it's in the Crown Store.

Azandar, due to being located in Apocrypha, still requires the Necrom Chapter to unlock. You must buy Necrom from the Crown Store in order to unlock the Apocrypha zone, in which you can meet Azandar.


So, you could own Necrom without being able to make an Arcanist. Or, you could make an Arcanist without being able to meet Azandar.

Necrotech_Master

LaintalAy wrote: »

Does access to Azander (arcanist class) require a purchased copy of Necrom?

if this is about azander the companion, yes it requires necrom (or having eso+ which also gives access to the chapter, and this is regular eso+, companions in chapters are not useable with free eso+ if you dont own the chapter)

the arcanist class for making your own character i think can be bought separately now, but is included with necrom

Mik195

Having them in the store is good for people who don't have ESO+ or the ability to purchase the latest chapter.

But, this change should have been announced before Gold Road sales kicked off so that people wilth limited money could make an informed decision.

tomofhyrule

Another thing to consider is that Companions, as a Chapter feature, are the only thing that’s increased in complexity over time instead of being added to.

Consider: Greymoor added the entire Antiquities system, but then each chapter thereafter added a few things to dig up. High Isle added the entire Tales of Tribute system, and then each chapter thereafter added another single deck.

Blackwood, on the other hand, started with two Companions who had two quests each. By the next Chapter, we got two new Companions (the same amount as before) who had three quests each, not to mention more high-profile actors and more developed interactions. If the Companions system had gone the way of the other systems we’ve had, we really would only have gotten one more each Chapter, and Blackwood would have been a requirement to recruit them.
(Incidentally, that means Blackwood is the Chapter with the least content, since it technically no longer has a unique feature, Companions also having been included in the later Chapters as standalone Chapter features in addition to what was sold as their feature)

So really the “worth” of a Chapter is going up to people as well — people are expecting every new Chapter to have: a massive zone (or two) with 6 challenging WBs and maze-like delves, several areas for challenging world events, a trial, and a unique feature. But then each must now also have: a number of Antiquities to address what we got in Greymoor, a new Tales of Tribute deck, and the entirety of Blackwood’s feature remade from scratch, but better. It is understandable that continual growth is not entirely possible.

All this while ZOS has now cut out the latter two DLCs for the past two years, and yet still delivered a free new system for all players (the Archive and now the BG redo).

I do think that ZOS should have said that the Companions for this round were not a part of the Chapter and would be a separate paid DLC from the beginning. However, I can also see that continually rereleasing Blackwood’s tentpole feature in it’s entirety in addition to another tentpole is unsustainable. Adding a new ToT deck or a handful of Antiquities is an upkeep and not as much as redoing the whole feature from scratch, but making two full Companions with unique skills kind of is. We kinda have been spoiled from getting all of that when we’re also getting a new big thing as well.

And as much as some people want to pretend that Scribing/Tribute/whatever is uninteresting to them and therefore was a ‘waste’ of time, each does also have fans and each also took a lot of work to get out.

So yeah, my opinion is that is is a bit on the scummy side that they didn’t tell us beforehand and we naturally were expecting the Companions to be free with Gold Road, but I do also admit that we were technically getting more and more each chapter as well. Besides, making Companions available to players without plus could also be a way to help newer players as well, especially since one is found in a tier 1 basegame zone.

Necrotech_Master

Mik195 wrote: »

Having them in the store is good for people who don't have ESO+ or the ability to purchase the latest chapter.

But, this change should have been announced before Gold Road sales kicked off so that people wilth limited money could make an informed decision.

it was announced months before gold road that companions were not going to be included in the chapter and instead be their own thing in Q4 update

gold road was never including companions, so people who bought gold road thinking that there was going to be companions were either misinformed, or never actually looked up what was coming with gold road before buying

LPapirius

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

it's not only that we still pay the same for the chapter even though there's less content in it, it's also that with them releasing in Q4 at an additional cost, we are paying more for the same amount at a longer wait time!

This is unacceptable ZOS! [snip]

if you have eso+ its 100% free, so there is no additional cost

tindomiel4 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

zos kevin has already confirmed if you claim the companions while you have eso+ they are permanent for your acct

you never lose access to something you get from the crown store, its not like a DLC which is conditionally given if you have eso+, the new companions have to be claimed from the crown store in order to access them, even if you have eso+

it wont be any different than say the imperial city DLC, which was made free some many years ago but still has to be claimed from the crown store to access outside of ESO+, even though that is free for everyone now

Yes, I agree. That's why I don't see companions as adding much long-term value to ESO Plus. No one (as far as we know) will need to keep paying for Plus just to keep the companions. Though if they decide not to keep them in the Crown Store permanently, I will be incorrect in this.

(I think I'm agreeing with both of you that I've quoted. We just may be looking at it from different angles.)

for me, i actually enjoy using the companions, assuming the unlock quests are not ridiculous (and its annoying they will still have a per character unlock quest that needs to be done even after acquiring them from the store)

the passives are basically also permanent account upgrades too, i would be really nice to have a permenant keen eye for heavy sacks from the new companion for example

i dont know what the plan is, but its unlikely they will be removed from the store, i think they will be permanent inclusions much like the assistants

ESO+ isn't free, so anything that comes with ESO+ is also not free. These companions cost $15 real money. This is an additional cost to the Gold Road chapter, and ZOS heavily inferred that the companions would be included with the Gold Road chapter even if they didn't say it outright. Call it a bait and switch or whatever you want. ZOS was misleading from the start about how this would work. They should have told customers up front that companions were no longer included with the chapter and would have to be purchased separately, and for real money.

I wonder, can we gift these new companions then? Will players be able to buy the companions with in game gold traded for crowns? Who want's to bet they won't be?

[edited to remove quote]

Erickson9610

LPapirius wrote: »

This is an additional cost to the Gold Road chapter

Gold Road has no Companions in it. Update 44 does, however.

ThoraxtheDark

jaws343 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I don't know what percentage of players are Non-ESO+ players, so dunno how big of an issue this really is.

But too, you can aways just purchase one month of ESO+, unlock the companions, the let the subscription expire. It'll put a few crowns in your wallet too.

Dunno that they'd be giftable, so dunno if you can buy them for gold from a Crown seller.

Or, just wait for a free ESO+ trial and get them for free unlocked permanently.

A whole lot of noise over a fairly reasonable thing.

We knew companions weren't included with Gold Road. So expecting them to retroactively be included in that purchase is absurd.

Zos also removed 2 entire paid DLC updates, so expecting them not to find some way to monetize content they are releasing, even if it is just a few companions, is odd. I would expect the DLC release changes have absolutely cut into the amount of money they were making per year on DLC sales.

And again, if you have ESO+, the companion unlock is free and permanent.

Not everyone has eso plus nor do they want it. Frankly the game isn't worth the sub lately and I'd rather play when I feel like it from here on out.
You would still have to spend money on the sub to get the companions, as well as purchase gold road. That's two separate purchases , as opposed to 1 ( for the last 3 major expansions , high isle necrom blackwood)