End of chapter bosses?

Tandor

I do think that the final boss encounter in any questline should be harder than the rest of the encounters, but only slightly so and not exponentially so as is the case with the Necrom questline. I haven't tried the Gold Road one yet.

I must say I agree with the view that if ZOS are going to market chapters as being structured for new players to complete all the chapter content before moving on to the rest of the game then no final boss encounter should be impossible for a new player to complete based only on their progress through the chapter.

I felt the same way about IA, it should be possible for casual players to complete the first arc solo/with a companion.

katanagirl1

Pevey wrote: »

These story bosses are solo instances. ZOS could add difficulty levels if they wanted to.

This is a different technical challenge from providing overland difficulty options. Overland is shared. Story boss instances are like dungeons, which themselves already have multiple difficulty modes (normal, vet, hm).

Only the Harbourage main story is solo instance.

Juomuuri

Aren't the boss instances solo unless you are grouped with someone in the same quest stage? At least this is how I understood it. Never seen random players join my boss fights, but I have done Clockwork City with a friend years ago and because we were in the same quest stage constantly, we both fought the bosses etc in the same instance.

Mik195

Juomuuri wrote: »

Aren't the boss instances solo unless you are grouped with someone in the same quest stage? At least this is how I understood it. Never seen random players join my boss fights, but I have done Clockwork City with a friend years ago and because we were in the same quest stage constantly, we both fought the bosses etc in the same instance.

Ate they? I usually don't see people either, but I remember when I was finishing up the Reach DLC that a few people had just finished before I got there and I got to do the boss fight while a bunch of people standing around with their merchants. It wasn't a good experience.

Castagere

Thank you all for replying. Glad I'm not alone in this. I'm a 67-year-old gamer with a little arthritis in my right hand and shoulder. I'm not going to give up ESO though. The single-player Morrowind got me hooked on Elderscrolls back when it launched all those years ago. But to the devs please look at what they just did in LOTRO. They added an NPC that lets you change how difficult you want the game to be. I saw a funny video of a guy getting killed by a pig in the newbie zone. No one gets killed by a pig in the newbie zone lol. He was having a blast with the difficulty settings. Couldn't they do this with these end boss fights?

Dragonnord

Insane? Completelly disagree. They are dumb easy mechanics.
 

SilverBride

Our playerbase is very diverse and this has to be considered when creating content. Long gone are the days when most gamers were teenage males, and the story especially needs to take the changing playerbase into account.

So yes, the Story Bosses have gotten too difficult for many and something needs to change.

Pevey

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

These story bosses are solo instances. ZOS could add difficulty levels if they wanted to.

This is a different technical challenge from providing overland difficulty options. Overland is shared. Story boss instances are like dungeons, which themselves already have multiple difficulty modes (normal, vet, hm).

Only the Harbourage main story is solo instance.

That is most definitely not true. Many story-line quests have solo instances.

Syldras

Seeing how differently players perceive the final boss fight (thanks to the forum - sometimes it's easy to forget how things that are easy for oneself might be really difficult for others), I think the only solution can be giving players difficulty options to choose from. This sounds like a good idea as well:

SkaiFaith wrote: »

To players who struggle with these final fights: would you be ok if there was a system in place that lowered substantially the difficulty of the fight each time you died?

Now I just hope that ZOS notices this and takes it into consideration.

TaSheen

Syldras wrote: »

Seeing how differently players perceive the final boss fight (thanks to the forum - sometimes it's easy to forget how things that are easy for oneself might be really difficult for others), I think the only solution can be giving players difficulty options to choose from. This sounds like a good idea as well:

SkaiFaith wrote: »

To players who struggle with these final fights: would you be ok if there was a system in place that lowered substantially the difficulty of the fight each time you died?

Now I just hope that ZOS notices this and takes it into consideration.

I hope.... but I'm not holding my breath.

katanagirl1

Pevey wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

These story bosses are solo instances. ZOS could add difficulty levels if they wanted to.

This is a different technical challenge from providing overland difficulty options. Overland is shared. Story boss instances are like dungeons, which themselves already have multiple difficulty modes (normal, vet, hm).

Only the Harbourage main story is solo instance.

That is most definitely not true. Many story-line quests have solo instances.

It is the only quest line that tells you that you are in a solo instance.

Pevey

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

These story bosses are solo instances. ZOS could add difficulty levels if they wanted to.

This is a different technical challenge from providing overland difficulty options. Overland is shared. Story boss instances are like dungeons, which themselves already have multiple difficulty modes (normal, vet, hm).

Only the Harbourage main story is solo instance.

That is most definitely not true. Many story-line quests have solo instances.

It is the only quest line that tells you that you are in a solo instance.

Next time you are questing, when doing a major boss fight, look around. Is there anyone else there? Can anyone port to you? Usually not. Most of these fights are solo instances.

Ingenon

The DLC story line quests are not solo instances. I have done all story lines from the original main quest through Blackwood/Deadlands with one other player, and the Molag Bal original main quest was the only final boss fight that was solo instanced. Every other story quest I have done grouped with one other player. Each of us with a companion. Final boss fights with a full group of four. No issues.

TaSheen

Pevey wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

These story bosses are solo instances. ZOS could add difficulty levels if they wanted to.

This is a different technical challenge from providing overland difficulty options. Overland is shared. Story boss instances are like dungeons, which themselves already have multiple difficulty modes (normal, vet, hm).

Only the Harbourage main story is solo instance.

That is most definitely not true. Many story-line quests have solo instances.

It is the only quest line that tells you that you are in a solo instance.

Next time you are questing, when doing a major boss fight, look around. Is there anyone else there? Can anyone port to you? Usually not. Most of these fights are solo instances.

This was definitely my experience with the dragon in N Elsweyr - friend was going to help, but while we could group, she couldn't enter the instance. Oh, also, that Urfon Iceheart battle - there were a bunch of us at the entry, all going in at the same time really -- and when I got in there with Kurog, the king and I were the only ones in there. Those are the only two I really recall at this point because I just never bothered to try grouping again.

joergino

I remember fighting the two Elsweyr end bosses in a group with a streamer and especially the Northern one was an absolutely lousy experience even though there were three of us.
I also remember there being issues with who could come along to the boss fight in Southern Elsweyr with her. Since we were on the same quest step, this wasn't problematic for me. But another friend was either lagging behind or not on the quest at all, so there were problems. Since it's been quite a few years since then, I can't recall if he could come along if he was in the same place as her when she entered the instance or not. He definitely couldn't just teleport to us.

I believe in Wrothgar it was the same, but since we were all on the same quest step, it was no problem. What TaSheen wrote, basically.

SilverBride

Whether or not we can group for the story quests, we shouldn't have to. The zone story has always been the personal story of the character and grouping up with strangers for it just doesn't feel right.

DenverRalphy

I can't think of any chapter end boss that doesn't have a mechanic that if used, makes it insanely easier to complete. And it's usually a synergy mechanic (but not always).

If you're struggling with a chapter boss, and you find yourself wanting to throttle the NPC that just won't shut up about something over and over again.. take a moment to actually pay attention to what they're saying. Usually clues you into something you missed or overlooked.

TaSheen

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I can't think of any chapter end boss that doesn't have a mechanic that if used, makes it insanely easier to complete. And it's usually a synergy mechanic (but not always).

If you're struggling with a chapter boss, and you find yourself wanting to throttle the NPC that just won't shut up about something over and over again.. take a moment to actually pay attention to what they're saying. Usually clues you into something you missed or overlooked.

Sure, I know all about that. I also know that due to high satellite ping, I'm practically never able to hit the synergy key fast enough to get the NPC to help. That actually was the ONLY way I finally beat the Ascendant Magus - I got up really early hoping most of the traffic on my beam wouldn't have started, and was barely able to manage it the final time I had planned to try it. If it didn't happen that time, I wasn't going to mess with it again.

zaria

Mik195 wrote: »

Juomuuri wrote: »

Aren't the boss instances solo unless you are grouped with someone in the same quest stage? At least this is how I understood it. Never seen random players join my boss fights, but I have done Clockwork City with a friend years ago and because we were in the same quest stage constantly, we both fought the bosses etc in the same instance.

Ate they? I usually don't see people either, but I remember when I was finishing up the Reach DLC that a few people had just finished before I got there and I got to do the boss fight while a bunch of people standing around with their merchants. It wasn't a good experience.

Lots of the base game quest instances are solo. The initial Craglorn main quest was an group instance but you had to be at the same quest level who was an pain.
I helped an guild mate in clock work city main quest, she was level 10 and new to the game so just random found armor and stuff so I made her some gear and recommend staying in the main zones at first.

Think they fixed quite a bit here so you can help some on an quest boss now. But the people having problems are probably pure solo players in the first case. But having boss not reset health then you die because npc keep boss in active works well enough.
And using 20 minutes and 14 deaths killing it might indicate your build needs improvement
Now I remember first time fighting Mannimarco I managed to remove the destruction staff for some reason, might wanted to recharge it? so I fought him only using an restoration staff with healing and buffs.
That was an long one but little chance of dying
But dying and fix the bars would be faster.

Parasaurolophus

ZoS should completely remove any combat from the quest line.

OsUfi

Since this was a discussion last month, I have finished High Isle, Gold Road, Necrom and Galen, with epilogues, on an RP necro wearing Oblivons Foe and War Maidens, all in light, one bar soul themed skills, tops out at 30k DPS, on a 4g connection in the Scottish hills, using a £160 mini PC (Ryzen 5560U), connected to my router through a power line adapter, while not entirely in charge of my own faculties.

I'm just not getting where these bosses are difficult for anyone? They're a good amount of spectacle, you don't kill them in 3 hits like the older bosses, but they also don't pose a big threat to us as a player. For the most part you can absolutely take your time with mechanics and such and still not die.

Right now the bosses that they're releasing are a really good balance of being accessible to all, and also feel like we're fighting an end boss. If they make them easier, the game suffers once again from no-threat-syndrome.

I'm always happy to see an accessibility mode to help those that are struggling. But likewise, if the default is any easier while there's no hard mode added, the rest of us suffer from losing interest in stories again as nothing feels like a threat.

SilverBride

OsUfi wrote: »

I'm just not getting where these bosses are difficult for anyone?

Because they are.

Not everyone is well geared or has a good build. Some have difficulty completing these long flights due to physical limitations. Others may not have the fastest gaming system or a great Internet connection. And we are all different in how we approach these fights.

Before High Isle this was not a problem for most as it is now and something needs to change so everyone can complete the story. Tune these fights back down then provide a hard mode scroll for those that enjoy the more difficult fights. Then everyone will be able to succeed.

OsUfi

SilverBride wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

I'm just not getting where these bosses are difficult for anyone?

Because they are.

But they're not. I'm in terrible non meta gear using a RP build with all the limitations in my post and I'm chuffing awful at computer games. The only time I died fighting these bosses

was on the rising lava part of the epilogue boss of the Breton story because I got lost. Yes, I am that bad. It put me on a higher ledge and let me carry on.

There's currently no difficulty slider. At this point, it's clear ZoS have no intention of adding a difficulty slider. I'd argue that those that can't complete these bosses are in a distant minority. So they have to aim for a difficulty level the majority of people can finish with ease, but still have an end boss feel like an end boss to not detract from the story.

They're not trying to make it Dark Souls. Just a standard video game boss.

notyuu

SilverBride wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

I'm just not getting where these bosses are difficult for anyone?

Because they are.

Not everyone is well geared or has a good build. Some have difficulty completing these long flights due to physical limitations. Others may not have the fastest gaming system or a great Internet connection. And we are all different in how we approach these fights.

Before High Isle this was not a problem for most as it is now and something needs to change so everyone can complete the story. Tune these fights back down then provide a hard mode scroll for those that enjoy the more difficult fights. Then everyone will be able to succeed.

You don't need a good build for the story bosses, all you need is to pay attention to core combat mechanics such as blocking, bashing, not standing in the damage aoe, you know, basics of playing the damn game, case in point I beat the necrom/gold road chapter wombo combo end boss with a buck ass naked character using the damn level 1 star haven training sword with a "whopping" 198 damage.

Sure it took quite a while due to the very poor damage output but there was no actual threat of dying, heck, if I had even bothered to put on even one singular damage set I could have crushed them in 75% less time, but I wanted to "challange" myself (it wasn't very challanging, just very tedious)

so I'm with OsUfi on this one, outside of willful ignroance of core combat systems or intentionally playing poorly I am struggling to see how anybody could have diffcuility with story content.

Stafford197

Castagere wrote: »

Thank you all for replying. Glad I'm not alone in this. I'm a 67-year-old gamer with a little arthritis in my right hand and shoulder. I'm not going to give up ESO though. The single-player Morrowind got me hooked on Elderscrolls back when it launched all those years ago. But to the devs please look at what they just did in LOTRO. They added an NPC that lets you change how difficult you want the game to be. I saw a funny video of a guy getting killed by a pig in the newbie zone. No one gets killed by a pig in the newbie zone lol. He was having a blast with the difficulty settings. Couldn't they do this with these end boss fights?

Oh it’s definitely not only you! Overland difficulty is a massive point of contention for this game. One crowd is fine with how things currently are, while the other crowd wants to increase the difficulty.

ZOS decided with more recent chapters to try to cater to both populations….. aka, giving more Health to certain Overland enemies and making certain bosses harder as a whole. It’s basically unanimous that no one wanted this outcome though since now neither crowd is getting what they want out of the Overland experience.

Not sure if it’s similar to LOTRO but in my opinion the best system is to allow us to use a form of PvE Battle Spirit to debuff ourselves. We would purposefully reduce our own Damage Done and Healing Taken, while simultaneously increasing our Damage Received. Maybe there is extra Experience Gain, better chance to get better item quality drops, etc for doing so. That mimics the concept of higher difficulty (for those who want it) while still allowing us all to play in the same world as each other.

AzuraFan

notyuu wrote: »

so I'm with OsUfi on this one, outside of willful ignroance of core combat systems or intentionally playing poorly I am struggling to see how anybody could have diffcuility with story content.

You have to keep in mind that some players coming up against these bosses are only level 17 or 18 and fairly new to the game.

I don't have a problem with the story bosses (I just find them tedious). I do think it's bad design to have the difficulty suddenly ramp up significantly just for the final story boss. Players who have completed the story up to that point shouldn't be faced with something that suddenly has mega-health, mechanics, adds, etc., when they haven't seen that before. Sure, the final story boss can be a bit more difficult, but the jump in difficulty has been too much over the past two chapters.

I'd support keeping the bosses as they are, if ZOS adds some type of buff for those who want to use it, that will make the boss trivial. I'd also support them nerfing these bosses and making them just a tad more difficult than what players have seen in the story. I hate seeing my fellow gamers, some of whom are on slow connections or have slower reflexes, shut out of experiencing the end of a story after spending several hours getting to that point.

You might wonder how anyone could find the end-of-story bosses difficult. Well, some do, and I'd like to see them complete the story and get their victory party. That wouldn't take anything away from me.

notyuu

AzuraFan wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

so I'm with OsUfi on this one, outside of willful ignroance of core combat systems or intentionally playing poorly I am struggling to see how anybody could have diffcuility with story content.

You have to keep in mind that some players coming up against these bosses are only level 17 or 18 and fairly new to the game.

If they skip to the end of everythign and then complain that it's too hard that's on them

also if they are infact that low level then the core combat mechancis should still be fresh in their mind from having gone though the tutoiral not even 4 hours ago, meaning, again, there should be zero things standing in their way to doing stuff

also also, you are aware that the low level power boost is a thing, right?

AzuraFan

notyuu wrote: »

If they skip to the end of everythign and then complain that it's too hard that's on them

If you're a brand new player starting at level 1, you can do all the quests, quest hubs, and side quests, and still be only level 17 or 18 when you get to the end of the story. I know that way back when, when I started in Morrowind with my very first character, I did all the quest hubs and the main quest, and when I finished I was at about level 18 or so. The more recent chapters have less to do. Anyway, I'm not sure what you think they're skipping.

also if they are infact that low level then the core combat mechancis should still be fresh in their mind from having gone though the tutoiral not even 4 hours ago, meaning, again, there should be zero things standing in their way to doing stuff

It can take practice to dodge roll at the right time, etc.

also also, you are aware that the low level power boost is a thing, right?

Yes, but that won't help with dodge rolling and other mechanics.

I'm not suggesting they make everything easy, just that they bring the difficulty of the end-of-story quest bosses in line with the rest of the story so that everyone can finish it.

OsUfi

AzuraFan wrote: »

I'm not suggesting they make everything easy, just that they bring the difficulty of the end-of-story quest bosses in line with the rest of the story so that everyone can finish it.

But everything else in the stories is easy. We can beat the current bosses with ease now with non meta builds, as hampered as I am in my prior post. If you make them any easier, we're back in the same trap of having inconsequential stories with too-easy end bosses. "Too easy" has plagued this games retention for a long time.

If we're not getting a difficulty slider, ZoS have to plant the difficulty flag somewhere. Where it is now allows everyone who can follow mechanics to easily kill every end of story boss. The mechanics are usually shouted at you by the NPC joining you.

SilverBride

It may be hard for some players to understand how the story bosses are difficult for other players to defeat but that doesn't change the fact that many are now unable to complete the zone story because of it.

The fact that some don't understand or that they disagree doesn't change someone else's reality.