Campaign scoring logic allows players to get massive gains during regional off hours

SkaraMinoc

I've updated the original post to be region agnostic. That way players can hopefully get a clear understanding of the issue while minimizing bias that might form naturally.

Telel

As a part time wolf, Khajiit feels it wise to mention something to those whose, contributions, involve a 'lol' or some such similar display of poor intentions.

Straw is a terrible thing for building foundations out of. This is true no matter if it is a house owned by a pig, or a man whose purpose is to deliver your 'argument'.

Sadly union rules forbid non contracted huffing and puffing outside of regulated hours. So instead this one shall just chuckle and reiterate their own earlier statements on how to make things better for all players with a sense of sportsmanship.

Rohamad_Ali

Wishing everyone would go to bed at the same time is lol.

darvaria

This is 12:00 am EST. 11 pm CST and 9pm pst. I don't consider 9 pm late night.

Look at the population. Look at the map. It's clear some factions do NOT want to play the map. AD is pop locked, at I guess is "prime time" and are chosing NOT to play the map. They have almost no points and are slipping further down. What does this have to do with regional populations when the map at GH looks like this and AD is pop locked? This could be ANY of the 3 factions, with players not wanting to play the map. OR the other 2 factions working against them. This is NOT regional differences.

Your campaign scoring logic and all this region off hours doesn't make any sense. It's all something that will give North American players some form of advantage.

ZOS: please remove all of these threads that insult other regions and countries of the world. EVERY region has paid for this game and many have subs. I find this to be a complete insult. Today someone at 11 am EST got on and asked "so what time SHOULD I be allowed to play? No one has the right to tell players when they "should" play. And make differences in the game just to adjust to "prime time", or specifically, players in certain countries. I'm guessing the OP thinks allowances should be made for players living in North America? PLUS, this has gone on for 10 years. Just because certain factions are not winning, as they expect to do, is not a reason to change things.

Look at the map and the pop. They don't always match up like some players would like. AND you will have to make allowances for the other 4 campaigns as well, even the under 50 one.

Delphinia

darvaria wrote: »

This is 12:00 am EST. 11 pm CST and 9pm pst. I don't consider 9 pm late night.

Look at the population. Look at the map. It's clear some factions do NOT want to play the map. AD is pop locked, at I guess is "prime time" and are chosing NOT to play the map. They have almost no points and are slipping further down.

Just a thought; looking at this map and population, it appears AD is trying to play, but has been double teamed by both DC and EP and it also appears that those two factions are not really making any efforts to fight each other. Therefore, AD’s “pop lock” is not going to make much of a difference in their ability to take anything of theirs back and probably not even be able to hold onto what they have for long.

As for the rest of the op’s grievances, I would say, this game is set up as a 24/7 game that is open to play for everyone at any given time. I do not generally like the term “nightcap” unless it’s referring to a drink. 🥂😁

What I will say is that it gets old and tiring to constantly be gated (as I’m sure everyone has had that happen and can relate).

If we truly want a healthy competition instead of a dying map and campaign, then the answer is to encourage people to spread out and perhaps even try playing for the faction in need at that particular time slot.

I realize that GH is a faction locked campaign, so that makes it a bit more difficult for some to make the switch. But, it was done before, back around 2015/2016. Those players who were wanting to balance the factions and who were also seeking a challenge, did just that.

From the image you provided, it seems that AD could use some more support during those hours. I know Kate, I mean the queen, would be most appreciative of anyone who would be willing to answer the call.

darvaria

^ But those maps were close to prime time and AD was pop locked. How can they get more support when they are pop locked. AD players are choosing not to play map objectives, which they certainly have the right to choose that play style.

Delphinia

Good question. When one looks at it, one might think so. However, we need to take into consideration, not just the numbers across the board, but the map itself and the behavior of the other two factions.

It appears that AD is not just fighting off one faction of three bars. My guess is they were having to fight on two separate fronts, since both DC and EP were pushing with their populations down on them simultaneously.

There also does not appear to be any conflict going on between DC and EP, which gives them both the freedom and advantage to push down on AD.

That would be a total of their six bars combined against AD’s four. Also, as I understand it, “lock” could mean they just reached that threshold. So, let’s say each bar has a maximum of 100 players (and I’m just using arbitrary numbers). DC has 300 and EP has 300. That is their combined 600 against AD’s 301 or maybe 400. Either way, AD is at a deficit by at least 200 to 299 players.

I could be completely mistaken, but that is how I understand it to be.

SkaraMinoc

darvaria wrote: »

No one has the right to tell players when they "should" play. And make differences in the game just to adjust to "prime time", or specifically, players in certain countries. I'm guessing the OP thinks allowances should be made for players living in North America?

I've already stated here, here, and here that anyone should be able to play when they want from where they want. I specifically stated here that the problem is region agnostic and not specific to North America. I'm only trying to help make Cyrodiil a better gameplay loop because when player investment (e.g. 1000 point lead) disappears within a few hours due to the scoring algorithm not adjusting according to player population, that highly discourages players from wanting to play.

Joy_Division

darvaria wrote: »

^ But those maps were close to prime time and AD was pop locked. How can they get more support when they are pop locked. AD players are choosing not to play map objectives, which they certainly have the right to choose that play style.

It's one thing to complain about being insulted because NA prime-time players use phrases like "nightcapping" and just assume off-hour players have nothing else better to do than conspire and never actually fight each other while PvDooring. But it's quite another to then make assumptions about NA prime-time players based on a map screenshot, specifically how they are choosing not to play map objectives. You don;t know that. That's why "Nightcapping" threads have existed for 10 years. People frustrated about situations they do not know all the data and just assume the worst.

By looking at the map, it seems to me that, yes, AD is trying. They are taking back one of their home keeps. They are fending off EP players at a resource of the most important castle (Fare). They are trying to push the faction that has their scroll (DC at Nikel). If I was logged onto AD, I would absolutely go to one of those three areas. At least that's how I interpret the map. I might be wrong, I might be correct. But it is a plausible explanation for events, thus the claim that AD is choosing not to play the map is an assumption, not a reality.

Or, as another poster pointed out, EP and DC are not fighting each other so this is probably a case of having been hit in multiple areas. And with ZOS's pathetic low population means that even at "locked," there just aren't enough bodies to fight on two fronts. So home keeps fall and scrolls get taken. I see this happen all the time (especially as I am a GH Banana).

The source of much of this frustration is that players choose to invest in these campaigns even though ZOS shows zero interest in fostering a competitive, fair, or even lively AvAvA environment, and thus subject themselves to the inevitable frustrations that come with a relationship in which only one party cares about. The game doesn't track who wins. There are no tangible rewards for winning. The devs have created zero incentives to participate. The alliance accrues nothing. If the scoreboard did not exist, players would not be able to tell who won or lost. Once I recognized that was the reality of Cyrodiil and the AvAvA campaigns, no Aussie, Asian, or EU alt has raised my blood pressure by what they choose to do in Cyrodiil when they log in.

BahometZ

I'm glad OP has toned their rhetoric and acknowledged it's not the players fault for playing the game. It reads like a completely different post.

darvaria

Well how will you deal with a situation like the above map? Where AD is pop locked ... it's 4/3/3? The other 2 factions would get a multiplier of sorts even though they hold almost the entire map?

The ONLY thing that will work is to balance the playing teams. 60/60/60. Even that wouldn't really work because of double teaming. Condense to 2 factions and make it 75/75. And if only 30 players are on the low pop faction 30/30. Don't allow the imbalance in the first place, don't put in some form of multiplier. Another thing, about half of the players in Cyro have 2 and even 3 accounts. If this is put in place what is to stop a group logging on and sitting in base camp? Upping the population and doing NOTHING.

The low pop bonus is MORE than enough to compensate. This entire presentation is about one faction that is currently winning campaigns. This imbalance has gone on for 10 years. Using different points for derivations in population, map and score would be a night mare. Imagine logging on and your faction doesn't get the same amount of points for capturing keeps as the other faction. You could take a really good ball group at a low pop time and gain 2k-3K points. We ran up a lot of ap and took an entire map on one of the alternate campaigns (not gh) during MYM with 12 players and had low pop bonus the entire run.

Joy_Division

darvaria wrote: »

Well how will you deal with a situation like the above map? Where AD is pop locked ... it's 4/3/3? The other 2 factions would get a multiplier of sorts even though they hold almost the entire map?

The ONLY thing that will work is to balance the playing teams. 60/60/60. Even that wouldn't really work because of double teaming. Condense to 2 factions and make it 75/75. And if only 30 players are on the low pop faction 30/30. Don't allow the imbalance in the first place, don't put in some form of multiplier. Another thing, about half of the players in Cyro have 2 and even 3 accounts. If this is put in place what is to stop a group logging on and sitting in base camp? Upping the population and doing NOTHING.

The low pop bonus is MORE than enough to compensate. This entire presentation is about one faction that is currently winning campaigns. This imbalance has gone on for 10 years. Using different points for derivations in population, map and score would be a night mare. Imagine logging on and your faction doesn't get the same amount of points for capturing keeps as the other faction. You could take a really good ball group at a low pop time and gain 2k-3K points. We ran up a lot of ap and took an entire map on one of the alternate campaigns (not gh) during MYM with 12 players and had low pop bonus the entire run.

How would I deal with it? By not even looking at the scoreboard. If Zos does nothing to make AvAvA fair, fun, or compelling, then I'm not going to bother wasting my emotions over it. When I log into play, I go where there are fights and I do my best to try and win them. Cyrodiil can barely get that done with its low pop cap. That's about the extent of the expectations I have from ESO. It's worked just fine for me for nine years now. Never once during that time has "nightcappng" bothered me at all.

When these conversations come up I think it would be helpful to actual be practical. No, they are not going to get rid of one faction because ten years of game development, Lore, and the actual PvP map makes it pretty much set. No, they are no going to condense all the campaigns into one because people love their faction lock and no-CP. Not happening. Not worth discussing.

They can do this with battlegrounds because maps are small, easy to make, and there isn't much of a previous history with lore, etc., that they'd have to work around. Cyrodiil is what it is.

As far as your suggestion goes, I'd be willing to give it a shot because we already know the current system of doing nothing and some arcane inconsistent "low pop bonus" have done nothing in ten years to solve the problem.

I'd be fine with a lock of sorts on an alliance that already had too many players vis-a-vis the other alliances (e.g., if EP has 40 and AD and DC only 30, then EP is locked). I'm sure people might complain about this and they'd were on GH they'd have a valid reason to because the game won't allow them to log their AD or DC, but people have to ask themselves what do they care about more: just playing and having an uncompetitive AvAvA score or a potential sacrifice and having a competitive AvAvA score? I think eventually things would sort themselves out such that people would begin to disperse alliances because nobody wants to sit in a que and there are enough people who aren't faction loyalists.

I disagree that the current Low population bonus is workable. Whatever that is, it doesn't seem to work consistently, has been exploited in the past, and was just made up on the spot a decade ago with no scientific or mathematical logic behind it. Keeping it just for the sake of "well, it's already there" makes zero sense to me. Most of all it obviously doesn't work since "nightcapping" conversations are still happening ten years later.

I feel a better mechanism would be to base in on the existing ZOS's system of awarding player bonus AP by taking into account how many opponents were defeated and dividing it among the victorious faction. The more EP and DC were logged on, the more bonus points AD would get when the score is updated.

Ultimately though, I think the main thing ZOS needs to do is put some effort into the AvAvA system, because there are quite a few people out there like me who have become indifferent to the whole mechanic. No matter how brilliant a scoring system is on paper, if people's decisions of what to do in Cyrodiil are based on just getting decent fights because the game does not tangibly reward them for AvAvA activities or give a reason to care about my alliance, then the system won;t work. There isn;t even a reason for guilds to care about the keeps they personally own, which many other games have mechanics in place for. The last Game Master to even be in cyrodiil was 2014, so ZOS has no idea what even happens there and no interest in any sort of moderation or refereeing. The last update we got was 2019. Such indifference breeds indifference.

Major_Mangle

People playing during off hours/non primetime:
"Why do you want to diminishing our efforts/contribution" (even tho it's basically PvDoor with 0 resistance)

Also people playing during off hours/non-primetime:
PvDoors the map and diminishing all the efforts completely for the people who play during the rest of the day due to how the score system work

Ahh, the hypocrisy never stops to amuse me

Kartalin

I only press L in game for three reasons: 1) queue for pvp, 2) check if there’s an emperor, and 3) check on an alt if I have 25k AP yet. The score has long since not been a concern.

I think the real issue is there’s no way to ensure populations are balanced at off-peak times. It’s clear we cannot rely on players to balance it themselves. I don’t completely understand why people are playing pvp if their goal is not to fight other players, instead opting for easy victories via pvdoor. It just seems unfulfilling.

This is really a design issue (or negligence) on the part of ZOS.

darvaria

But the design has been in place for 10 years. Players are waiting to get in during prime time. Like the above, stop playing for the score. This entire issue comes down to a few players being dissatisfied because their faction is not winning at GH.

ANY change to Cyrodiil will be a problem. The changes would also apply to the other campaigns. The low pop bonus is more than enough. You look at all campaigns and there is a group of PV Door. Not just EP on GH. Players could help their faction on GH and it would be balanced, but they CHOOSE to go to another campaign and PV Door.

I only gave the example of equal numbers to show the only true way of population balance. And idt most players would accept this change.

NO CHANGE.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

darvaria wrote: »

But the design has been in place for 10 years. Players are waiting to get in during prime time. Like the above, stop playing for the score. This entire issue comes down to a few players being dissatisfied because their faction is not winning at GH.

ANY change to Cyrodiil will be a problem. The changes would also apply to the other campaigns. The low pop bonus is more than enough. You look at all campaigns and there is a group of PV Door. Not just EP on GH. Players could help their faction on GH and it would be balanced, but they CHOOSE to go to another campaign and PV Door.

I only gave the example of equal numbers to show the only true way of population balance. And idt most players would accept this change.

NO CHANGE.

Why would adjusting the campaign evaluation timer to tick faster when the server was more populated (because the map changes more) be a problem?

ticking every hour doesn't make sense during primetime when it's fully locked and things can change within 5-10m.
Then when the server is dead and only 1 faction is zerging it would tick only every hour to restrict points total gain during those times.

Dkrewe

The PROBLEM is not what country or time zone is logging in. The PROBLEM is that everyone that logs in during that time slot all flocked to the same faction, possibly because it's all one guild or a series of allied guilds.

The game needs some sort of reduction to AP gain when you massively outnumber someone (similar to reduced AP for killing the same person over and over and over). At the same time, have some kind of incentive for the lower represented factions at that time. An incentive that actively balances out as the population evens out (not whatever is there right now that gives low pop bonus to the highest pop faction at times). The only way to fix this is going to be to make it worthwhile for all the players that log in at that time to NOT all be in only one big faction zerg.

LarsS

As has been said the design is 10 years’ old. When the game came out Cyrodiil buffs carried over to pve areas and the only traders were in Cyrodiil. This was changed quite fast, but the campaign scoring remained and so did the buff system. In the original system it was expected that people from alliances who were in problems would come in to protect traders and buff’s it never worked!

So why does ZOS keep an outdated campaign scoring and buff system, I don’t know. What I do know is that they have changed many other systems in the game and that it would be a very small effort to change these systems.

1. Campaign scoring modified by the total number of players in a campaign, can be introduced easily just multiply the campaign score with the fraction of peoples online. It should take hardly any time to do this programing, so why hasn’t it been done in 10 years?

2. It would be logical to give the faction that dominates the map debuffs for doing so to help the weaker factions. To still motivate conquest, one could buff AP gain when a faction owns enemy keeps and scrolls. Would this be a big coding effort, hardly. There is already an AP buff for owning 3 keeps, so it should be easy to expand and modify as needed. In addition, the buff system is already in place, so introducing debuff instead can’t be hard.

So, why has ZOS not tried this, even though it has been asked for again and again, to me it is a mystery. I think ZOS owes us an answer, but I very much doubt that we will get one.

xDeusEJRx

I said it before, weigh the score more depending on what region it's from. During prime-hours you have 100% score gain, during off hours reduce it to say 50% for example (numbers could be adjusted, these are just for examples).
Then go and evaluate the score based on the regional prime times, NA, EU, etc.

ZoS is a company that loves evaluating data so they can use data they have on activity hours to determine each region's prime hours and reward the majority of campaign score during the primary activity hours

darvaria

Oh so AD doing the night capping this campaign so it's okay now. Map stayed this way all night. This is 7;30 est and a few ep logged in and taking back some forts. Do you think I'm going to play? No going back to sleep. And the rest of the time it's team green. Good campaign to skip.

Telel

Gotta love the gaslighting going on above. For months and months it's just 'suck it up and stop trying to punish nightcapping. It's war LOL'. Often with implications that the gaslighter is somehow a highly skilled individual who just happens to end up on the side with an overwhelming advantage.

Now it's 'OMG why are you people so mean! I'm going to go to bed now that the nightcappers are making things hard for me.'

For the record Telel's entire guild purposely chose to go where AD needed bodies. Purposely chose to pick a time when we'd often be the only AD group up while toxic individuals are basically trying to make people quit.

This has meant years of uphill pushing against people who often resort to cross faction scrubbery, and worse. We also don't gate camp once our side has a factions scrolls. Not even on the 'side' that's been nightcapping the campaign.

So this one practices everything they preach. They invite others to join in on their humble sermons.

Theignson

Telel wrote: »

Gotta love the gaslighting going on above. For months and months it's just 'suck it up and stop trying to punish nightcapping. It's war LOL'. Often with implications that the gaslighter is somehow a highly skilled individual who just happens to end up on the side with an overwhelming advantage.

Now it's 'OMG why are you people so mean! I'm going to go to bed now that the nightcappers are making things hard for me.'

For the record Telel's entire guild purposely chose to go where AD needed bodies. Purposely chose to pick a time when we'd often be the only AD group up while toxic individuals are basically trying to make people quit.

This has meant years of uphill pushing against people who often resort to cross faction scrubbery, and worse. We also don't gate camp once our side has a factions scrolls. Not even on the 'side' that's been nightcapping the campaign.

So this one practices everything they preach. They invite others to join in on their humble sermons.

Telel is missing the context here. Telel should go back and read the first and second post complaining about EP players nightcapping.

Darvaria is simply posting a counter map, based on the exact same time zone, showing the AD zerg hordes (plus multiple balls) night capping and even gate camping.

This has been going on forever. For almost two years after a famous EP player left EP, almost every night we would be night capped by the combined "team green". This is the pattern again this campaign. HOwever, it comes after probably a year of EP winning each campaign. The wheel keeps turning.

Its just how it is. First one side is night capped, then another.

"No one" likes to log in and see their faction gate camped by hordes of tarnished NB in stealth eager to gank them once they engage in a fight, roaming balls eager to 12v1 the hapless few who try to turn a RSS. I repeat-- no one from any faction enjoys this yet we have all had to deal with it

Muizer

Isn't the preferred situation one where all factions are competitive at all times no matter the total population? I don't see why ZOS does not just force population parity or even make it inversely proportional to map dominance and why they don't just drop the whole timed and scored campaign concept completely in favour of a perpetually open sandbox. What is so important about the scoring that it justifies the kind of perverse incentive that causes nightcapping? People wanting to 'play with friends?' I don't think so. I used to play a WWI flight sim a long time ago and it was basically the 'done' thing to do to switch to the side that's outnumbered. But of course, we were just there to have fun, not score points. How silly.....

Telel

Theignson wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Gotta love the gaslighting going on above. For months and months it's just 'suck it up and stop trying to punish nightcapping. It's war LOL'. Often with implications that the gaslighter is somehow a highly skilled individual who just happens to end up on the side with an overwhelming advantage.

Now it's 'OMG why are you people so mean! I'm going to go to bed now that the nightcappers are making things hard for me.'

For the record Telel's entire guild purposely chose to go where AD needed bodies. Purposely chose to pick a time when we'd often be the only AD group up while toxic individuals are basically trying to make people quit.

This has meant years of uphill pushing against people who often resort to cross faction scrubbery, and worse. We also don't gate camp once our side has a factions scrolls. Not even on the 'side' that's been nightcapping the campaign.

So this one practices everything they preach. They invite others to join in on their humble sermons.

Telel is missing the context here. Telel should go back and read the first and second post complaining about EP players nightcapping.

Darvaria is simply posting a counter map, based on the exact same time zone, showing the AD zerg hordes (plus multiple balls) night capping and even gate camping.

This has been going on forever. For almost two years after a famous EP player left EP, almost every night we would be night capped by the combined "team green". This is the pattern again this campaign. HOwever, it comes after probably a year of EP winning each campaign. The wheel keeps turning.

Its just how it is. First one side is night capped, then another.

"No one" likes to log in and see their faction gate camped by hordes of tarnished NB in stealth eager to gank them once they engage in a fight, roaming balls eager to 12v1 the hapless few who try to turn a RSS. I repeat-- no one from any faction enjoys this yet we have all had to deal with it

Please see khajiit's initial response to the thread. WHich was made before any of the revisions the OP made to it. It's the eleventh response.

AS Telel said. They practice what they preach. A few years ago when Thornblade was getting dominated by AD the pack moved to a server where AD was getting stomped. A year or two before that they made EP and DC toons just to go deal with any AD who were gate camping and trying to shut down the map.

Which is probably why this one will never be elevated to the ranks of 'good' players. They have to much integrity and a strict sense of sportsmanship.

dcrush

darvaria wrote: »

Oh so AD doing the night capping this campaign so it's okay now. Map stayed this way all night. This is 7;30 est and a few ep logged in and taking back some forts. Do you think I'm going to play? No going back to sleep. And the rest of the time it's team green. Good campaign to skip.

This is priceless. Have you heard of the expression “you reap what you sow”?

In any case, I think there should be something implemented to stop what happens during off-peak hours from having such a big impact on the campaign outcome, and it should be applied to all campaigns - not just GH.

Getting zerged down by 30 EP while trying to take back a resource on a fully red map is no fun to me, but neither is logging into a map where my alliance already has everything leaving nothing to do. And PVD outside of capturing 3 keeps for a daily is boring to me as well.

DrSlaughtr

Triple low pop bonus. Unlock the campaign so people who are bored watching their faction zerg hold the map can switch and earn AP.

darvaria

How am I sowing anything? I've never played a night cap map. I take screen shots. I log off if the map starts going that way. I don't need AP and am not sticking around to pick up 4 scrolls. I woke up one or two mornings to see and take photo's. It's boring to see a map all one color. And I wasn't the one complaining. I played on EP 2 years and didn't win once. And got night capped every night. What I said (if you bother to read) it is a cycle. The night capping will come and go to all sides. Now, it's AD night capping, so I guess you can stop complaining. As before, when this starts on ANY faction including my own, I log off. I'm not going around and PV Door the map to flip it back.

But I still hold to just letting the alliances balance out with times. Any attempt to change points, scoring, etc. will just mess up what is happening for 10 years now. I don't even really like the low pop bonus.

Give it a campaign or two and DC will be the off hours scoring. I played DC 5 years in the beginning and don't really remember them not night capping. It was the reason I left. I'll play nights until it gets to where the map is not evenly spread. I've always logged off BEFORE a map turns red .. it's boring.

As for winning, I thought everyone figured it out 8 years ago, there is no incentive to win ................. Is there something I'm overlooking about winning? That's why small man groups never played the map.

Not crying, just saying I won't play a 3/1/2 map. TBH, I wish maps were 100% balanced all of the time where it's 10/10/10 or 60/60/60.

But I still hold to not changing anything about scoring. And yeah yellow is rolling around with the night caps. Of course, I'm not going to play with 3/1/2. But do NOT change it where the lower population factions get more points. Most players will still logoff and not bother even if they got more points because they are no even fights and most don't care enough to try to make points.

darvaria

Here's the map about 45 minutes later. (note scroll placement) So, not sure about no gate camping. But that doesn't really matter. MOST players are not going to bother. Pop was still 3/1/1. But changing around, REWARDING players for NOT playing is not going to fix things. Just let it go and things will roll around. I will never play an unbalanced map, no matter the color. I have other things to do. There will be NO fights for anyone on these types of maps. But any intervention to change scoring, etc. for "off times" will mess things up. I do NOT think EP should be rewarded for logging in, looking at the map and leaving. That's basically what happens to all factions. They see a map like this and most leave. I'm not PV Dooring to reclaim this map. Even when it flips to 1/2/1, you are PV Dooring with no fights. And you can't tell me that map came with a lot of "great fights". No one color map has much PVP. Just leave it alone and I'm sure the night capping will rotate.

Telel

Lots of broad brush stroking, and not much in the way of proposing a solution.

This one finds that to be about as useful as the average 'solo ranged DPS' build.

That's sitting on the wall watching you fight a dozen people sieging the keep.

While they're in stealth.

With five other people doing the exact same thing.

darvaria

^ What/who are you talking about? Are you even looking or reading other posts? If you are talking about me and the above picture, exactly WHAT wall would I be standing on? There isn't one. What I said is that most ppl log in, look at the situation and MOST leave a map as above. If you note, I'm at base camp and just logged in. I asked do you need help at KC and they said no because there were 2-3 AD ball groups there .... so I just logged off. I'm not running around with a 3/1/2 population and trying to cap *** and get the map back with 10 players when you know 30 plus will show up. I'm not complaining either or I would have left EP when we had a 2 year winning streak. Losing is not that bad tbh. With a winning streak, you pick up a lot of zone chat trolls, players with 2 accounts, players taking jabs at the zone chat generals and calls. AND a longer que.

There is NO solution. Just let AD night cap and score away. Populations balance out over time. AD may win a few campaigns, but a lot of players will go AD to win. I've changed factions once in 10 years when my guild changed because DC dominated the map every campaign. I look for good maps to play at GH where there might be some action. Sadly, I spend way too much time soloing resources to keep ports open when needed but the best fights are the 3 ways at chal and arrius, where we got a 94k D tick last week. This can only happen with team green and 3/4/3.