Awful PvP

StaticWave

Also, adding skill cooldown without reworking the combat system would make balance worse, not improve it.

- Resource management is no longer a concern because you don't have to use a skill every second => You can ignore recovery completely and invest into more damage or defense
- DoTs won't be as effective anymore because you can't use a "spammable" to kill people
- Builds with delayed burst abilities will be superior => classes without delayed burst abilities will be at a massive disadvantage
- TTK is significantly higher because you can't use a spammable every second
- Animation cancelling is even more important

All of this still won't fix skill difference. If you died to people who "outspammed" you, then you would still die to the same people after skill cooldown introduction.

joshisanonymous

OP sounds very much like a troll: "Hey people who enjoy this game, did you know the game sucks, and did you know that I have the best ideas as an armchair game designer for how to build a completely and fundamentally different version of the game that doesn't suck?" Cool, guy, then go make your own game, I guess? Because this isn't a realistic or useful line of discussion.

Vulkunne

HoffmannTheBest wrote: »

There is no balance in PvP, not at all.

To have balance, you need to introduce a cooldown time for skills, as is done in all normal PvP games, and not who can outspam whom faster.

This ^

ThoraxtheDark

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Combat is actually very good. The game you want just isnt this one.

But the combat isn't balanced whatsoever. I'm curious on why you think it's " good " in a state where clearly the pvp player base on every console is dying or dead.

Surely the objectivity around you can lead you to some bread crumbs as to why less than 10,% of the total pop plays pvp.

Combat is actually very good

As opposed to what? Morrowind combat?

TechMaybeHic

ThoraxtheDark wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Combat is actually very good. The game you want just isnt this one.

But the combat isn't balanced whatsoever. I'm curious on why you think it's " good " in a state where clearly the pvp player base on every console is dying or dead.

Surely the objectivity around you can lead you to some bread crumbs as to why less than 10,% of the total pop plays pvp.

Combat is actually very good

As opposed to what? Morrowind combat?

You should probably read more than 2 posts in a 2 week old thread to see where the difference on combat and balance is explained before reacting.

Doesn't matter what the combat system is when it comes to balance. Neglect balance like ZOS has, and it's going to be a bad time

divnyi

Balance is a fine-grained thing, it has nothing to do with sweeping change like this.

ZOS did blast us with sweeping changes multiple times and it didn't achieve balance, because surprise-surprise, doing sweeping change and fine-tuning the system are mutually exclusive changes.

NxJoeyD

If we want to talk about balance in PvP I think there’s a solid way to do this without having to obliterate the ability for people to have flexible, creative builds.

If ZoS were to adopt a system that, let’s just say, we call the Competition Index (CI).

This is a similar approach to what racing games take and IRL motorsports take.

The way this would work is that every player would have a calculated CI score. That score would vary depending on all aspects of the choices the player made in the build. If a player changes an ability, scribes an ability, allocates attribute points a certain way, etc, the CI score would recalc. The score would be based upon each individual ability, gear set, attribute, etc all carrying a priority point value. So let’s say a player has a strong HoT ability and then applies a gear set that buffs that ability even farther; because the gear set attributes align with the slotted HoT ability the CI score is going to increase by stacking those attributes.

Because not every class has the exact same capabilities (and never will) what we’d be seeking to do here is make players who want to compete in PvP events build in a balanced manner. Otherwise what you end up with is a handful of broken “metas” that the sweats all run and everyone else who wants to be creative and actually explore builds is phased out of competition in PvP.

In this case, I’m suggesting a CI system. It would only apply to PvP, not PvE. This could also be used to balance matchmaking. Further, I’d leave CP & gear procs intact; as the CI would scale off of all of those choices.

Just like in Forza, sure, I can build an X999 car; and I can run it in free mode or private matches or solo play but I can’t run competitive events against R class cars. But that’s precisely what we have going on in ESO because no priority is being given on both a macro & micro scale to take into account the broad scope of how abilities, gear, & attributes can be paired which results in builds that don’t have many direct counters. So in the case of ESO we’d either have PvP matchmaking where everybody’s near X999 or the player build would need to be adjusted to meet the CI limit for that campaign

There’s a handful of ways one could implement a CI system in this game and people can talk about that; whether you have CI brackets for events / campaigns, or overall CI caps, or if you really want to get nerdy with it CI subclasses (ie damage, healing, durability, etc) whereby each subclass has a CI based on player build selections. There’s a lot of flexibility with this.

Rhaegar75

The main issue in PvP: unkillable groups
The second main issue in PvP: unkillable players

Fix the above and PvP will be a lot more fun!!

RaidingTraiding

Having skill cooldowns takes away from the reactive and fast paced combat of the game. We had aoe cooldowns during the performance tests a few years ago and it felt pretty bad and slow. What makes pvp unfun is when they leave broken sets like rush of agony in the game for years and you get yo yoed all over the place in almost every fight. That and they keep buffing defensive power in the game. when ttk is too high fights get stalematey and boring. the last thing we need is skill cooldowns that will mess up burst timing and further increase ttk.

r3play81

Because EsO has the worst PvP of any MMO. Dying in 1 second before you have any time to react is not fun at all. Just trash

r3play81

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Having skill cooldowns takes away from the reactive and fast paced combat of the game. We had aoe cooldowns during the performance tests a few years ago and it felt pretty bad and slow. What makes pvp unfun is when they leave broken sets like rush of agony in the game for years and you get yo yoed all over the place in almost every fight. That and they keep buffing defensive power in the game. when ttk is too high fights get stalematey and boring. the last thing we need is skill cooldowns that will mess up burst timing and further increase ttk.

High TTk? the TTK is ESO is like 2-3 seconds that is absolutely stupid, good luck ever getting new people into PvP with stupid crap like that

Major_Mangle

r3play81 wrote: »

Because EsO has the worst PvP of any MMO. Dying in 1 second before you have any time to react is not fun at all. Just trash

ESO PvP has a very steep entry curve sure, but ESO combat has always been a lot about being able to predict and react to incoming threats. The prediction part is all about experience and funny enough, skill. Still, eso has IMO the best combat system of any MMO on the market and it´s not even close (doesn´t mean the game doesn´t have issues, but the combat is by far the best in terms of its design/core).

RaidingTraiding

r3play81 wrote: »

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Having skill cooldowns takes away from the reactive and fast paced combat of the game. We had aoe cooldowns during the performance tests a few years ago and it felt pretty bad and slow. What makes pvp unfun is when they leave broken sets like rush of agony in the game for years and you get yo yoed all over the place in almost every fight. That and they keep buffing defensive power in the game. when ttk is too high fights get stalematey and boring. the last thing we need is skill cooldowns that will mess up burst timing and further increase ttk.

High TTk? the TTK is ESO is like 2-3 seconds that is absolutely stupid, good luck ever getting new people into PvP with stupid crap like that

2 to 3 secs sounds like a skill issue.

Durham

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

The core mechanics of the game are great.
The direction they are heading towards with hybridization, equalizing everything, and damage procs makes things not as enjoyable as in the past. Unironically, class uniqueness made the game more fun.

Totally agree !! I love the combat of this game. I hate the current balance around healing and extremely broken sets. BALANCE !!!!!! For example sets like Rush of Agony with unbelievable utility with damage!

karthrag_inak

oh, yes, when khajiit thinks of how his pvp experience could be more enjoyable, the first thing he thinks of is "Things need to slow down".

RaidingTraiding

Durham wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

The core mechanics of the game are great.
The direction they are heading towards with hybridization, equalizing everything, and damage procs makes things not as enjoyable as in the past. Unironically, class uniqueness made the game more fun.

Totally agree !! I love the combat of this game. I hate the current balance around healing and extremely broken sets. BALANCE !!!!!! For example sets like Rush of Agony with unbelievable utility with damage!

Yeah cyro would be so much better without that brain dead carry set. Crazy how long they've kept that set the way it is. Don't worry they're "keeping a close eye on it" Honestly I'm almost convinced sets like these and the fact they've been the meta for years is what's gradually driving the pop down. At some point people start getting tired of having their character yo yoed all over the map without any counter play.

xylena_lazarow

RaidingTraiding wrote: »

Honestly I'm almost convinced sets like these and the fact they've been the meta for years is what's gradually driving the pop down.

Nerfing Azure while leaving RoA untouched was probably the final straw for a lot of zerg players. It was a pretty clear message: Cyro is for sweaty organized 12 mans. If that's not you, don't even bother showing up.