Tarnished Nightmare still stacking with other burst procs and making horrible noise in PvP

xylena_lazarow · August 26

Title. This thing plays the game for you enabling 10k-20k free proc stack damage from invisible 41m range with 1 button every 8 seconds, doesn't even require ult dump. No risk, all reward. Once upon a time, ZOS added a curated list of burst procs that delay each other, and turned short cooldown bursts like Viper into DoT effects instead. This was much better for balance, Tarnished needs that sort of treatment in PvP, or an "against monsters" clause, or something.

The sound effect is also horrendous, even if the set mechanically doesn't get changed, the sound doesn't need to exist like that, turning PvP into an exploding bottle factory, and no I'm not turning off all my sound just to get rid of one awful spammed effect.

xylena_lazarow · August 26

This is absolutely pathetic, this guy's free no risk proc did double the damage of Bow's strongest skill.

And no this alone doesn't kill me, there were several focusing me here, but having to deal with one button invisible ranged 14k free damage nonsense every few seconds while I'm dealing with the guys in my face, not great PvP experience.

Solariken · August 26

They'll nerf it into uselessness, but not until one patch before something even more OP is about to be released.

xylena_lazarow · August 26

That's 14k damage off a single invisible bow light attack against a brawler with 33k armor.

Solariken · August 26

Never leave home without a hefty stack of detect pots.

At least you can kill these procbois unlike those proctardarcanists that can facetank innumerable hordes while Vate Fire Maarseloking you into Oblivion.

xylena_lazarow · August 26

Solariken wrote: »

At least you can kill these procbois unlike those proctardarcanists that can facetank innumerable hordes while Vate Fire Maarseloking you into Oblivion.

Arc can be hard countered simply by moving and they have to take an actual risk to attack you visible in melee range. Detect pots are only 15 seconds, and this range proc stack can be done with zero risk from the roof or mid zerg.

BetterAtChess · August 26

Oh dear, still Elder Cheese Online is it?

ESO generally has really good sound design; the Tarnished proc is NOT an example of this. I find even ESO PVP streams have become annoying to watch because of the prevalence of this intrusive effect.

They should change the breaking glass sound to the sound of a huge cheese sandwich hitting a wall of cheddar.

Major_Mangle · August 26

I said it in a similar thread before but it´s not even a problem of proc sets, the problem has to do with ranged damage overall. There is almost 0 reasons to play melee anymore when ranged has the same if not more damage than melee. And can accomplish it from a safe distance. Due to the natural delay with travel times you get with range you can stack such an absurd amount of damage instances within 1 gcd that it breaks the game more or less (at least from a balance PoV).

Ranged damage as a whole needs a massive damage nerf.

Theignson · August 26

They should nerf this but long past the point where they should nerf Merciless resolve, which is much worse-- can be shot every 5-6 seconds instead of 8, gives free 300 weapon damage, hits for 15k, and heals

Of course the worst is NB can use both tarnished and spectral bow

HA, tarnished, althelmir's construct, silver bolts, status effect all hit at once, then finish up with bow

Ren_TheRedFox · August 26

@xylena_lazarow it's a p2w set on meta classes in a p2w patch

they need more than just nerfing that set to fix stuff ... but I agree ... the set is annoying and the sound it makes gives people PTSD.

divnyi · August 26

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

This is absolutely pathetic, this guy's free no risk proc did double the damage of Bow's strongest skill.

Take into account Sundered, it's almost tripple.

xylena_lazarow · August 26

Theignson wrote: »

HA, tarnished, althelmir's construct, silver bolts, status effect all hit at once, then finish up with bow

Somehow this 3 button combo seems less busted than 14k off a single invisible bow light attack.

6k Tarnished + 3k bow light + 2k status effects + 2k enchant + 1k wof proc (not even a good choice for this)

SkaraMinoc · August 26

There's a stronger version of this setup using heavy attack that does 35k damage instantly from stealth. That's against a target with 25k armor, Minor Protection, Duelist Rebuff, Ironclad, and 4 heavy 3 medium. I didn't screenshot or look into CMX because I didn't really care. I just know I've been hit by that much without enough time to Block + Ward out of execute range.

Now when I see this player on the Kill Feed, I pop a Detect Potion right away and kill them. They probably hate me.

SkaraMinoc · August 26

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

This is absolutely pathetic, this guy's free no risk proc did double the damage of Bow's strongest skill.

That Focused Aim was probably blocked. It should have crit for 8k+.

Focused Aim = 0.106915 MaxStat + 1.12261 MaxPower
Tarnished Nightmare = 1.13 MaxPower

Highwayman · August 26

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

There's a stronger version of this setup using heavy attack that does 35k damage instantly from stealth. That's against a target with 25k armor, Minor Protection, Duelist Rebuff, Ironclad, and 4 heavy 3 medium. I didn't screenshot or look into CMX because I didn't really care. I just know I've been hit by that much without enough time to Block + Ward out of execute range.

Now when I see this player on the Kill Feed, I pop a Detect Potion right away and kill them. They probably hate me.

I've got people that I know are pretty tough with their buffs up using anthelmir's/tarnished/tharriker's for over 32k with heavy->incap. My guess is they were relying fully on rc for crit resist and maybe team defensive buffs of some kind too. Kind of shocked me the first time it happened.

Off on a bit of a tangent, I think we are in a low key crit meta because of the number of people that don't realize their rc up time is horrible.

xylena_lazarow · August 26

Combos aren't even the issue, it's the constant one button 14k chunks from someone invisible 41m away, and there's always multiples doing this in any large scale fight, this is not good PvP.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 26

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

This is absolutely pathetic, this guy's free no risk proc did double the damage of Bow's strongest skill.

Worth noting that CMX does not show overkill damage. Idk if you checked the combat log to look at when everything landed, but if Snipe landed last and killed, then CMX would only show however much health you had remaining.

Tarnished is pretty obnoxious, but a Snipe crit would definitely hit harder, so the Snipe was either blocked or was the killing blow.

Just_Attivi · August 26

I've fully embraced the cheese, its good fun to swap around to. I do wish this stuff didnt exist, but theres always a 'new broken OP set' with each DLC/chapter etc. so... it is what it is imo.

That said, I am still in favor of replacing the sound effect from glass shattering to a clown nose honk. its only appropriate.

xylena_lazarow · August 26

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Worth noting that CMX does not show overkill damage. Idk if you checked the combat log

This is just 1 guy of several who were focusing me, that's not the point though, invisible ranged one button doing 14k with proc stacks is the issue. It can do a lot more if you don't block part of it or if the wielder is using something more appropriate than WoF. Parallel issue to Hardened Ward, it turns combat into one button, throws risk vs reward way out of balance.

acastanza_ESO · August 26

The set is straight up bugged. I won't talk about the specifics here for TOS reasons but it is being actively abused by certain groups.

Thumbless_Bot · August 27

MOST damage in this game should have diminishing damage based on distance. I would not advocate for this across the board as there may be things specifically designed to do damage from afar like siege weapons...

If you want to stand 40 feet away and engage in combat your damage output should be reduced accordingly. You want to stand on the wall and rain arrows or force pulse or frags it should hit less hard. It is a fundamental risk reward that this game is heavily based on in my opinion and this should be no different. You want to get up in someone's face and trade blows you are putting yourself at greater risk and thus should have greater reward/damage. To this end, I really think basic melee skills are underpowered, except for spin to win which is aoe, and ranged skills are WAY to strong from a risk/reward perspective.

Turtle_Bot · August 27

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

There's a stronger version of this setup using heavy attack that does 35k damage instantly from stealth. That's against a target with 25k armor, Minor Protection, Duelist Rebuff, Ironclad, and 4 heavy 3 medium. I didn't screenshot or look into CMX because I didn't really care. I just know I've been hit by that much without enough time to Block + Ward out of execute range.

Now when I see this player on the Kill Feed, I pop a Detect Potion right away and kill them. They probably hate me.

Don't even need the heavy attack set (although that is the best set for that build in terms of raw damage), I get the same results just pressing the button for incap (and lately concealed weapon since a lot of players are aware of incaps sound now) that procs both of my proc sets (tarnished + 1 other) to 1 shot most players.

Fun fact, this is on a brawler blade with over 30k health, 18k crit offerings (which happen very frequently thanks to 40%+ crit rate), 3k crit resist, speed cap, 27k resistances back bar, near infinite sustain, and so much flexibility on my bars that I am constantly tinkering with skills, trying new things to see what else I can add to the build.

bladenick · August 27

The worst part, with undeath nerfed, it truely a nighmare on 40m away, especially for range NB ganker, even could invest 2 sets on proc.

and this proc damage set also the major reason most player hate cloak, as it zero risk stand 40m away and burst damage you to death then hide and safe retract.

the proc damage set at least need to be only trigger on direct damage, and also shall not overlap from different type of proc..

Bashev · August 27

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

This is absolutely pathetic, this guy's free no risk proc did double the damage of Bow's strongest skill.

That Focused Aim was probably blocked. It should have crit for 8k+.

Focused Aim = 0.106915 MaxStat + 1.12261 MaxPower
Tarnished Nightmare = 1.13 MaxPower

What? Did they change it? Back in the days a blocked ability could not crit.

xylena_lazarow · August 27

Bashev wrote: »

What? Did they change it? Back in the days a blocked ability could not crit.

That's what I thought too, but I didn't feel like engaging the people trying to off topic nitpick the CMX that I chose to illustrate the one button ranged invisible proc burst problem. Do they think Tarnished is okay lol?

Bashev · August 27

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

What? Did they change it? Back in the days a blocked ability could not crit.

That's what I thought too, but I didn't feel like engaging the people trying to off topic nitpick the CMX that I chose to illustrate the one button ranged invisible proc burst problem. Do they think Tarnished is okay lol?

What annoys me is the stupid sound effect. Once ZoS nerf Tarnished then they will slot the next proc set.

These kind of players, they will always stay far away in sneak and cloak and will fire on you when another player or players are attacking you. You cannot do anything about this. That is why ppl uses towers or trees with tons of speed.

Bushido2513 · August 27

Had a NB just heavy attacking with flame from stealth in a bg and I was like is this what we've come to? Hitting the tarnished, building resources and ultimate to maybe drop a meteor that might not kill me but that contributes to actions they can safely just do over and over again ?

CameraBeardThePirate · August 27

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

What? Did they change it? Back in the days a blocked ability could not crit.

That's what I thought too, but I didn't feel like engaging the people trying to off topic nitpick the CMX that I chose to illustrate the one button ranged invisible proc burst problem. Do they think Tarnished is okay lol?

I literally stated that tarnished isn't okay in my comment. I was simply trying to dispel the notion that it deals more damage than Snipe, which is misinformation.

xylena_lazarow · August 27

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I literally stated that tarnished isn't okay in my comment. I was simply trying to dispel the notion that it deals more damage than Snipe, which is misinformation.

It's not though, Tarnished regularly hits harder than spammables, 7.5k here between the set and its guaranteed status effect, that's more than what Concealed Weapon would crit for on that same NB build.

CameraBeardThePirate · August 27

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I literally stated that tarnished isn't okay in my comment. I was simply trying to dispel the notion that it deals more damage than Snipe, which is misinformation.

It's not though, Tarnished regularly hits harder than spammables, 7.5k here between the set and its guaranteed status effect, that's more than what Concealed Weapon would crit for on that same NB build.

I can assure you it would not hit harder than Concealed Weapon (which was weird to bring up in the first place since my comment was talking about Snipe), as Concealed Weapon has a much higher scaling coefficient than Tarnished. If they hit you for a 6k Tarnished, Concealed on the same build would likely be in the realm of a 9k crit.

Theignson · August 27

I agree with the comment about decreased damage with range.

I think merciless resolve should only be effective in melee range (7m). No risk, no reward.

Make tarnished a melee only proc. That'll cool some ardor.

Although I appreciate the kind comment that the 3 button is more like a combination-- and I ghuess its true. Its not like any other combinaiton is much more than 3 buttons.

So I suppose on my sorc I have to push crystal weapon, then push crouch, then push heavy attack, cancel it with silver shards, add an endless fury

I guess thats 5 buttons

Plus my Sorc cannot stealth