Reworking Sorcerer class sets should be a priority

Ren_TheRedFox

@Theist_VII if this is about PvP then let me tell you a few things Every Sorc who wants to survive in PvP uses Streak, so your argument is useless in this case. The likelihood of an add “blocking” your curse is low... Go to any place like IA or somewhere else with multiple adds and test it out. For PvP sorcs DO NOT NEED MORE BUFFS. If you want to heal in PvP with a pet sorc, the set is fine (there are better options of course but that could be said about any set and most people don't use the class sets for any other class either ... they're just underperforming for that), because guess what you get armor and health when you have a pet active, and you can use your ward to protect the pet.... I've seen a lot of people do this and somehow they are good at it ... does the set need a buff/change ... YES, but after they fix the class for PvP, not before and I'm pretty sure the majority of PvPers would agree with me on that point cause sorcs are out of hand already ... imagine giving them a set that would make them even stronger ... so if you really want to argue with me about how bad a class set is for PvP, let's talk about Wrathsun, because I can guarantee you one thing ... ... no one ... literally no one wants to use that set in PvP ... the only reason people are upset about the set for PvP is the number of Sorc players ...
Class sets are generally not the best idea for PvP because you can't balance them. If you compare all sets, the dk sets are the best for PvP, followed by the Arcanist and then the Necro, Nightblade, Warden, Templar and Sorc ... I agree that the sorc sets are the worst, but luckily the class itself is not in a situation where it really needs a set to make it work properly, unlike the templars that are pretty much only playable on a crit build.

Theist_VII

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@Theist_VII if this is about PvP then let me tell you a few things Every Sorc who wants to survive in PvP uses Streak, so your argument is useless in this case. The likelihood of an add “blocking” your curse is low... Go to any place like IA or somewhere else with multiple adds and test it out. For PvP sorcs DO NOT NEED MORE BUFFS. If you want to heal in PvP with a pet sorc, the set is fine, because guess what you get armor and health when you have a pet active, and you can use your ward to protect the pet.... I've seen a lot of people do this and somehow they are good at it ... does the set need a buff/change ... YES, but after they fix the class for PvP, not before and I'm pretty sure the majority of PvPers would agree with me on that point ... so if you really want to argue with me about how bad a class set is for PvP, let's talk about Wrathsun, because I can guarantee you one thing ... ... no one ... literally no one wants to use that set in PvP ... the only reason people are upset about the set for PvP is the number of Sorc players ...

Yet you somehow can’t manage to fit Streak on your bars if you’re playing a pet Sorc.

What buffs are you willing to give up to put Streak on with 8 out of 10 bar slots? Major Brutality/Sorcery? Major Resolve?

We’ve already established you need Dark Exchange, Daedric Prey, Hurricane, and Regenerative Ward to try to protect your pets. you’re also going to need a spammable skill and an execute, so there are 6 skills right there, and the only Major you’re getting is Major Resolve, so you’re left with 2 slots.

Know what those two slots are? Monkey & Bird.

Once you have your necessary skills, you’re left devoid of Major Brutality/Sorcery, Major Savagery/Prophecy, Major Mending, Major Vitality, Major Protection, Major Berserk and a whole list of Minors. That’s not even covering your debuffs that are completely inaccessible on a pet build.

I already explained this to you in another thread, but sure I’ll just quote myself…

Theist_VII wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@Theist_VII blood magic, regen ward, surge, encase, ... want me to continue listing healing skills up?

The sets are not that good for the sorc I agree to that but let's be real here .... sorcs don't need more buffs nor damage ... they're busted already ... imagine giving them a set on top of that to make them even stronger ... already feels like "The Elder Sorcs Online" ... no need to add more to it

Yeah, Pet Sorcs are a serious problem in PvP!

You’re so right, they have the mediocre passive Blood Magic for when you can’t afford the bar space of Dark Magic skills, Upwards of a 7,000 shield on Regenerative Ward after Battle Spirit, Crit Surge is useless as your pets don’t count as your damage and therefore do NOT heal you when they crit, and an atrocious PvE skill in Encase that requires pinpoint row stacking like Combat Prayer…

ZOS has made it a point to prevent you from stacking max magicka or stamina as a Pet Sorc, so we can all collectively stop venting our frustration with a completely unrelated, irrelevant to the topic playstyle.

Ren_TheRedFox

@Theist_VII why would you need Daedric Prey on a sorc healer ... even if you're a hybrid support no one uses that skill also are you talking about a small/big scale group or solo play cause if this is group you can get rid of so many skills.

Ren_TheRedFox

If this is a small scale group with let's say 4-5 people you normally at least have a warden and a dk in that group so you can get rid of your surge and storm cause they give you the buffs you get from those. Note! A healer and a hybrid support are NOT the same thing! If you need a healer that person will focus on full healing skills and buffs and not damage so you can get rid of the wrath and frag for two other skills like purge, daedric refuge or even illustrious healing for an AoE ground heal. If you're a hybrid support then keep frags and wrath cause your other group members should deal the damage. Even without sets with that bar setup you give them a purge, shields, AoE heals, HoTs, minor recovery buffs, a burst heal, a stun if needed (if you wanna use streak ... on a healer you should use ball of lightning though), minor vitality, Major Maim, a negate and Major Force and Major Prophecy and Savagery. Again you get all of this without sets. Now if you add sets to this you can use Olo for Major Courage on your back bar or SPC based on what you prefer and as monster set for example you can use the blind for Minor Force and for your front bar maybe arkasis for Ulti Gen (or on your back bar I personally would prefer that but that's just preference). Mythics are optional ofc cause with 2 sets on different bars you can also use Gallant Chain for another 1.4k hp ... I prefer using Death Dealers for the max rss but you can also always use Pearls or if you wanna help your group out even more on a Hybrid Saints and Seducers. That's up to you.
Now that is a Healer for PvP with a group ... if you go solo ofc you have to drop some skills for other but hybrids are smth else.
If you really wanna use the class set then go for it you'll just lose ur ulti gen but that's because you want to ... no one is using the class sets besides the arcanist one for group play cause they're lacking more utility ... even the dk set which is awesome but even that one.

Theist_VII

You’re not going to gaslight me into believing all PvP pet sorcs are meant to be healers.

Ren_TheRedFox

@Theist_VII no but you should chose your words for roles more carefully

ZhuJiuyin

It's interesting to claim that sorc is out of control in PVP when NB actually accounts for more than 50% of the PVP population.
Even more interesting is the claim that "new sorc set is at least that you get that damage and healing boost if you don't wanna run pets."
Did you know that no-pet sorc will do more damage/healing without the Beacon of Oblivion than with it?
Even the no-pet sorc does more damage when using Monolith of Storms than when using Beacon of Oblivion.
Using Beacon of Oblivion will actually reduce the damage done by no-pet sorc!

Ren_TheRedFox

@ZhuJiuyin I'm aware of that, no worries, and if you read what I said before I agree that it needs a change, but they should change the class itself first before changing the set because an overpowered set can lead to massive balance issues in PvP.
I know most of the players here are PvErs, but they forget the fact that this class specifically dominates in PvP and buffing a set that is only for that class will lead to worse.
And before anyone says that the PvP population is in the minority in this game anyway ... guess what the game was originally a PvP game and not PvE, so please keep that in mind as well please.
And if some of you actually took the time to check out how the class performs in PvP and how many people have stopped playing the game because of it, you'd understand my point instead of condemning it without a second thought.
Like I said ... it needs to be reworked, but the class is the priority.

Galeriano2

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

you guys are literally complaining about a set that will boost your healing and damage done by 15% ... a unique major and minor berserk ... almost a whole major mending ... and guess what you can get all those on top of that ... seriously stop complaining about ... you know what set needs a rework ... the templar one ... cause guess what ... it's the only set where you have a drawback loosing 50% of your magicka at full stack on a class that already has sustain issues .... so yeah ... poor sorcs guys

Problem with that sorc set is that You need to loose more damage to wear it than You gain from wearing it.

Ren_TheRedFox

@Galeriano2 I totally understand it and I know it needs a change but I think what I'm saying makes sense as well.

Tannus15

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@ZhuJiuyin I'm aware of that, no worries, and if you read what I said before I agree that it needs a change, but they should change the class itself first before changing the set because an overpowered set can lead to massive balance issues in PvP.
I know most of the players here are PvErs, but they forget the fact that this class specifically dominates in PvP and buffing a set that is only for that class will lead to worse.
And before anyone says that the PvP population is in the minority in this game anyway ... guess what the game was originally a PvP game and not PvE, so please keep that in mind as well please.
And if some of you actually took the time to check out how the class performs in PvP and how many people have stopped playing the game because of it, you'd understand my point instead of condemning it without a second thought.
Like I said ... it needs to be reworked, but the class is the priority.

No they shouldn't. They shouldn't be putting out sets based on where the class might be if they change the class.

They should release something useful and cool for each class with each class set. It's that simple.
If they make balance changes to a class later and a particular combination of sets becomes problematic they can either change the set or the class at the time they make the balance change or the update after.
The whole process is both iterative and ongoing.

Really it comes down to how strong class sets should be. Obviously they should be stronger than crafted or overland sets. I'd say more inline with DLC dungeon sets or trial sets, and they should be looked at as inheritably "kiss / curse" sets due to their proc conditions / benefits being focused on 1 skill line and because their scope is much narrower, useable for a single class only, they present an opportunity for strong benefits if you lean into the theme.

The sorc sets do none of these things.

Monolith of storms has all the negatives of poor proc conditions and restricted usefulness while having a weaker proc damage than most proc sets.
it's stationary, you can't control the proc location and unless you have 2 procs active it literally does nothing.

I'm not going to harp on about monolith because i'm pretty sure everyone knows it's bad in literally every piece of content the game has to offer.

Beacon of oblivion is also overshadowed by it's negatives.
I think everyone can agree that if you're going to use pets the set is utter garbage. I don't know why anyone would run a set with such weak bonuses.
with pets the 5pc bonus is 1840 Health and 1980 Armor.
So let's just straight out say that no one is going to run this set and use pets. Ever.

I think it's already established that this is a weak PvE set because 2 of the set bonuses are NOT damage focused while the 5pc IS damage focused. it's a contradiction undermining the purpose of the set. On top of that you have a massive restriction over what skills can be used making it a dps loss to run the set. Julianos / Hundings are better sets for dps.

It's also a weak PvP set. 5% damage done with massive restrictions. Again, you're better off with Julianos / Hundings.

Lastly it's a weak Healer set because healers don't run pure heal % sets. They just don't. Healers run sets that provide benefits to the group they are healing in the form of buffs or debuffs. Unless there is some massive heal check to get through, no one runs raw healing sets.

The numbers don't lie. To wear BOO you have to give up a different 5pc set on top of working with a bunch of restrictions.

First, the 2pc and the 4pc bonuses need to change. maybe go max resources since that will at least align with the sorc no pet passive.
Second the sets needs an ok 5pc bonus that is active at all times. even a 1pc crit bonus.
Third it needs a stronger bonus while pets are not active. like an additional 25% damage done to monsters.
Finally some other bonus when pets are active. I'd go with some sort of healing / support buff. give everyone you heal empower. or minor aegis. whatever.

The main thing this set exposes is how off the mark ZoS's thinking is when it comes to how far behind no pet builds are. They genuinely think that 15% damage done is enough to offset no pets AND losing a 5pc bonus. It's crazy.
You need 15% to offset the pets, then you need ANOTHER 5pc bonus to make up for the lost set bonus.

Turtle_Bot

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@Galeriano2 I totally understand it and I know it needs a change but I think what I'm saying makes sense as well.

Ok, so let me ask you this then?

When the first NB set (Soulcleaver) came out, were you against it or for it? Given how overpowered the entire NB kit is in PvP right now, are you ok for such a set to exist for NB or not?

Here is the set for context:


This set gives NB's already overpowered and dirt cheap heal a further 18% healing done as well as 18% cost reduction. To give you an idea just how strong this set makes offering, My Brawler/Gank hybrid build with no investment into healing, offering regularly crits (40% crit rate) for nearly 18k actual healing and costs me 3.7k mag to use (stage 4 vamp), or 3.2k to use if I got rid of vamp altogether. A non-crit heal is typically ~10k in actual healing.

With this set equipped back bar, My offering would crit (at 40% crit rate) for 21k actual healing and cost me barely over 3k mag to use (or ~2.6k if I wasn't vamp). It would non-crit heal for 12k+

That is completely min-maxed ward levels of "healing" done, but for 40% less cost to use it, even while being stage 4 vampire (increasing costs by 12%). For context, ward costs nearly 5k to use at stage 4.
Also, fun fact, the health "cost" of offering doesn't get increased by vampire cost increase.

So, did you rail this hard and this blindly to get NB nerfed into the ground so they could have this strong set or are you fine with NB having an 18% increase in healing done and cost reduction to their already overpowered heal?

Ren_TheRedFox

@Turtle_Bot I think that set is as overpowered as the first dk set is ... both can bring you above 100% healing done in cyro I've tested it myself ... that's why I said I think the class sets shouldn't exist at all. ZOS has its favorite classes and everyone can tell which those are. The idea of making sets for classes in an unbalanced meta/patch is ridiculous anyways and I'm pretty sure you'd agree on that with me ... like I said ... take a look at the first templar and warden set ... one of them takes away half of your magicka at full stacks and puts down a nova god knows where ... the other one makes you perma block to get your buffs from it ... but guess what ... both are classes that got nerfed down (tbf though wardens aren't as bad as templars right now but you know what I mean).
Sorcs and nightblades in particular are extremely strong right now ... imagine giving them two sets making them stronger than they are right now. Sounds ridiculous to me.
Not gonna lie ... kinda am tired of trying to explain things here to you all ... how about you guys take every set into consideration instead of the ones from the meta classes. I'm pretty sure the warden sets are "overpowered" in PvE ... oh wait I'm sry ... does warden dps even exist in PvE ... barely seeing them with all the heavy attack sorcs around

Theist_VII

Tannus15 wrote: »

…Finally some other bonus when pets are active. I'd go with some sort of healing / support buff. give everyone you heal empower. or minor aegis. whatever…

Come on, bro. We can do better than Empower and Minor Aegis. 😂

BananaBender

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@Turtle_Bot I think that set is as overpowered as the first dk is ... both can bring you above 100% healing done in cyro I've tested it myself ... that's why I said I think the class sets shouldn't exist at all

I think the class sets are an amazing idea if they were utilized correctly. They could function as a way to buff the underperforming classes to be even slightly more on par with the better ones out there. For example if they made a set for warden that would buff their cleave damage with a set that gave the bear the ability to cleave with all attacks or something of the sort. But sadly most of the sets are either too underwhelming to use or exclusively made for PvP. Right now Pyrebrand is the only competitive class set out there.

I don't play PvP much at all, but it really seems like the problem with all the most powerful classes in PvP is their kit, not their sets. I'm sure NB is much stronger with Tarnished and other gank gear, but it was strong even before it and it will remain strong no matter what sets they buff and nerf. Its kit just fits so well into PvP that it will always be strong. Sorc follows a similar line.

The sets should be strong and worth using and the class balancing should be done within the class itself. They should offer a new playstyle, something that wasn't nearly as viable before. None of the current class sets do this. Want to run sorc without pets? You are just better off using some proc set than this abomination they just released. The only positive and exciting thing about BoO is that it's the first set (as far as I know) that has different values based on Battle Spirit. Please add more of these! And I'm not talking about sets that only work on monsters or while Battle Spirit is active, but a set that technically works in both environments.

So in short, please bring us actually good and powerful Sorc and NB sets that make the classes interesting (and not have their damage solely based around Maelstrom Greatsword) and balance out the classes the way they are supposed to be balanced in the first place.

Pelanora

Are they doing it with sets because it's too hard to fix skills and passives?

I'd see class sets as a way to being more quirky weird but fun stuff for the class, that maybe they don't want to roll out permanently to everyone.

Sorcs cld conjure lightning birds? to attack far away npcs out of aoe range? something something idk making guff up, but you see the idea.

Is the coding easier to fix via sets than via skills passives or something?

Tannus15

Pelanora wrote: »

Are they doing it with sets because it's too hard to fix skills and passives?

I'd see class sets as a way to being more quirky weird but fun stuff for the class, that maybe they don't want to roll out permanently to everyone.

Sorcs cld conjure lightning birds? to attack far away npcs out of aoe range? something something idk making guff up, but you see the idea.

Is the coding easier to fix via sets than via skills passives or something?

It's really just about risk management and test coverage.

if you change the class you have to look at every set and non class skill combination to make sure you haven't unintentionally wildly unbalanced the game.

if you do it with sets you need to check every class with that set to make sure you haven't done something crazy. it's a much smaller series of tests.

if you do it with class sets you have limited to the potential down to just that one class, and in the case of some class sets one skill line so you can go a bit harder on it.

Pelanora

It seems a devils bargain that one.

Ezhh

For those claiming that sorc is strong in PvP so the set doesn't need to be improved: sorc is definitely NOT overpowered in PvE for any role. Look at any typical group composition and you won't see a parse sorc anywhere. A big part of this is that sorc lacks cleave. The change to curse barely scratches the surface when you compare a sorc to classes like arc and DK which have massive cleave built into their rotations.

So what COULD we have done?

Maybe make a set that charges your bird with lightning to do AoE damage around itself each time it attacks? Wouldn't help much in PvP, but in PvE that could be a really nice boost for the area sorc parse DDs struggle in the most.

Otherwise a proc set that creates a stationary effect on the ground, somehow linked to pets, could also have worked well in PvE, but would have been easy to avoid in PvP where combat is much more mobile.

I just came up with these in the time it took me to type this post. It's not like there aren't options that wouldn't do much in PvP but would help where sorc is lacking in PvE.

Tannus15

Ezhh wrote: »

For those claiming that sorc is strong in PvP so the set doesn't need to be improved: sorc is definitely NOT overpowered in PvE for any role. Look at any typical group composition and you won't see a parse sorc anywhere. A big part of this is that sorc lacks cleave. The change to curse barely scratches the surface when you compare a sorc to classes like arc and DK which have massive cleave built into their rotations.

So what COULD we have done?

Maybe make a set that charges your bird with lightning to do AoE damage around itself each time it attacks? Wouldn't help much in PvP, but in PvE that could be a really nice boost for the area sorc parse DDs struggle in the most.

Otherwise a proc set that creates a stationary effect on the ground, somehow linked to pets, could also have worked well in PvE, but would have been easy to avoid in PvP where combat is much more mobile.

I just came up with these in the time it took me to type this post. It's not like there aren't options that wouldn't do much in PvP but would help where sorc is lacking in PvE.

the funny thing is that monolith of storms meets this criteria, but they fumbled it with the proc conditions and the amount of damage.

Asdara

Imagine monolith of storms that spaw from just any lightning tick and does AOE dmg instead of the weird string thing.
That would be so much better...

Ezhh

Tannus15 wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

For those claiming that sorc is strong in PvP so the set doesn't need to be improved: sorc is definitely NOT overpowered in PvE for any role. Look at any typical group composition and you won't see a parse sorc anywhere. A big part of this is that sorc lacks cleave. The change to curse barely scratches the surface when you compare a sorc to classes like arc and DK which have massive cleave built into their rotations.

So what COULD we have done?

Maybe make a set that charges your bird with lightning to do AoE damage around itself each time it attacks? Wouldn't help much in PvP, but in PvE that could be a really nice boost for the area sorc parse DDs struggle in the most.

Otherwise a proc set that creates a stationary effect on the ground, somehow linked to pets, could also have worked well in PvE, but would have been easy to avoid in PvP where combat is much more mobile.

I just came up with these in the time it took me to type this post. It's not like there aren't options that wouldn't do much in PvP but would help where sorc is lacking in PvE.

the funny thing is that monolith of storms meets this criteria, but they fumbled it with the proc conditions and the amount of damage.

Yup... was thinking it as I wrote it. It's such a shame they didn't make Monolith proc in a way that makes actual sense and fits with real gameplay, or you know, just make it work like certain other sets, like Depths or Pillar of Nirn... Just with a "when you deal shock damage" condition.

Instead we got something with no practical use beyond if you want to glow while standing in town.

Pelanora

aside from all the weird stats of it, why monoliths? standing stones? that some Merlin reference? just odd

ZhuJiuyin

The worst part about monolith of storms is that, except for Lightning Flood, you actually need 2 GCD to proc monolith of storms. Otherwise you just get a... lightning rod? Where is the monolith?
However, Lightning Flood is the worst floor dot in the game, with the lowest damage and highest cost.
Therefore, the fastest way to gain buffs from monolith of storms is to increase the damage of monolith of storms by 3-5%, and increase the damage of Lightning Flood by 33% (33% is the increase ratio obtained by Shocking Siphon in U42, so this is not An overly powerful buff).

Asdara

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

The worst part about monolith of storms is that, except for Lightning Flood, you actually need 2 GCD to proc monolith of storms. Otherwise you just get a... lightning rod? Where is the monolith?
However, Lightning Flood is the worst floor dot in the game, with the lowest damage and highest cost.
Therefore, the fastest way to gain buffs from monolith of storms is to increase the damage of monolith of storms by 3-5%, and increase the damage of Lightning Flood by 33% (33% is the increase ratio obtained by Shocking Siphon in U42, so this is not An overly powerful buff).

And its so easy to fix... just turn every monolith into a mini lightning flood.
But whats break my heart to a different level in the amount of fun lighting stuff we in IA but not for storm calling sorc :')

ZhuJiuyin

Asdara wrote: »

And its so easy to fix... just turn every monolith into a mini lightning flood.
But whats break my heart to a different level in the amount of fun lighting stuff we in IA but not for storm calling sorc :')

Agreed, the monolith of storms is very easy to fix, just raise the numbers a bit, or apply the existing skill code with a slight modification.
But when we see Beacon of Oblivion, a set that is full of humiliation for sorc, and the lightning ability in IA that is so interesting but does not belong to sorc. It's hard not to suspect that some of the designers have malicious intentions toward sorc.

Asdara

ZhuJiuyin wrote: »

Asdara wrote: »

And its so easy to fix... just turn every monolith into a mini lightning flood.
But whats break my heart to a different level in the amount of fun lighting stuff we in IA but not for storm calling sorc :')

humiliation for sorc

That term really encases the feeling... straight humiliating, and lets not even talk about the visuals of sorc sets YIKES

Anti_Virus

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

Bold claim. Who says you can't do somehing similar with BoO?

Because people have literally parsed and ran content using this set and it still performs worse than just running any generic set.
The 15% damage does not bring no-pet sorc up to the level of pet sorc, it still sits easily 5-10% behind (at best). It does nothing for pet sorcs because they don't need the health or armor thanks to the matriarch heal, the expert summoner passive and the pets body blocking/holding aggro for the sorc in PvE.

Kisakee wrote: »

Have you tried making a build with it? How do you know it's that bad? Some thing need weeks or even months to be noticed of being strong. And you can have your opinion but that doesn't mean everyone thinks the same.

Have you???? The set has been tested for over a month now on the PTS and all conclusions resulted in the set just being bad and not worth running over any of the generic sets that already exist in the game.

It is blatantly clear that you haven't even tried the set at all. I would suggest you actually try the set out properly before telling those who have tested the set throughout the entirety of the PTS (6 WEEKS) that they are wrong????

I’m pretty sure Beacon of Oblivion is a tank oriented set

Turtle_Bot

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Kisakee wrote: »

Bold claim. Who says you can't do somehing similar with BoO?

Because people have literally parsed and ran content using this set and it still performs worse than just running any generic set.
The 15% damage does not bring no-pet sorc up to the level of pet sorc, it still sits easily 5-10% behind (at best). It does nothing for pet sorcs because they don't need the health or armor thanks to the matriarch heal, the expert summoner passive and the pets body blocking/holding aggro for the sorc in PvE.

Kisakee wrote: »

Have you tried making a build with it? How do you know it's that bad? Some thing need weeks or even months to be noticed of being strong. And you can have your opinion but that doesn't mean everyone thinks the same.

Have you???? The set has been tested for over a month now on the PTS and all conclusions resulted in the set just being bad and not worth running over any of the generic sets that already exist in the game.

It is blatantly clear that you haven't even tried the set at all. I would suggest you actually try the set out properly before telling those who have tested the set throughout the entirety of the PTS (6 WEEKS) that they are wrong????

I’m pretty sure Beacon of Oblivion is a tank oriented set

And even as a tank oriented set, it still fails absolutely miserably. 5 pieces just to get a bonus that barely matches what 2 pieces of trainee gives is just crazy.

Better off running literally any base game overland set over beacon for tanking.

ZhuJiuyin

I don't understand why some people can't accept the fact that BoO is a failed class set?
Anyone who has actually played sorc for 5 minutes can easily point out where BoO fails. But some people seem to be working very hard to offset the protests of sorc players by supporting BoO.