Can you report someone in game for their behavior out of game?

Reginald_leBlem · August 21

A twitch streamer is using housing tours as a way to boost his own engagement, by visiting random houses and trash talking them. The videos are also being uploaded to other social media sites. This is obviously not in the spirit of the game, but is this behavior actually reportable?

DragonRacer · August 21

How awful. It’s stuff like that which will have me immediately looking for the “opt me out/never let strangers into my houses” option I assume/hope is there once console gets this update in 2 weeks.

TaSheen · August 21

@ZOS_Kevin, little help here?

Four_Fingers · August 21

Yeah, no criticism should be allowed.

RexyCat · August 21

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

A twitch streamer is using housing tours as a way to boost his own engagement, by visiting random houses and trash talking them. The videos are also being uploaded to other social media sites. This is obviously not in the spirit of the game, but is this behavior actually reportable?

Report it through ESO web here: https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/#en/home

Make sure when player are reporting that they have video evidence which cleary show that this streamer/player are violating Code of Conduct and ToS.

ZoS can only take action on their own playform and already uploaded video on other platforms is something player that have been victim of this need to make their case for each platform if it is violating rules or regulations that for that site to use for anybody who is using their services (ToS, EULA or CoC).

Vaqual · August 21

It sounds like he is offering his opinion about publicly listed houses for entertainment value, in a space that you have to enter voluntarily. Why do you care?

I have no idea what kind of stuff this guy is saying, but I am pretty certain any PvP related stream/video will contain just as much provocative content.

Where does this need to police people playing video games come frome?

And in the end, de gustibus non est disputandum.

DenverRalphy · August 21

DragonRacer wrote: »

How awful. It’s stuff like that which will have me immediately looking for the “opt me out/never let strangers into my houses” option I assume/hope is there once console gets this update in 2 weeks.

There's no Opt Out because you have to Opt In. Don't list your homes, and nobody's strollin through your homes.

Lugaldu · August 21

This escalated quickly- Another reason why I will not participate in Housing Tours.

DragonRacer · August 21

DenverRalphy wrote: »

DragonRacer wrote: »

How awful. It’s stuff like that which will have me immediately looking for the “opt me out/never let strangers into my houses” option I assume/hope is there once console gets this update in 2 weeks.

There's no Opt Out because you have to Opt In. Don't list your homes, and nobody's strollin through your homes.

Excellent, thank you for confirming this.

Reginald_leBlem · August 21

Vaqual wrote: »

It sounds like he is offering his opinion about publicly listed houses for entertainment value, in a space that you have to enter voluntarily. Why do you care?

I have no idea what kind of stuff this guy is saying, but I am pretty certain any PvP related stream/video will contain just as much provocative content.

Where does this need to police people playing video games come frome?

And in the end, de gustibus non est disputandum.

It's rude, frankly, and it discourages people from participating. I don't see any reason to tolerate or encourage poor behavior. Most of us are chill and play the game to have fun, picking apart builds and saying snarky things is mean-spirited, and while I don't see why it should be ban worthy, a warning or a temporary social ban might make it a less viable pastime.

DenverRalphy · August 21

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

It sounds like he is offering his opinion about publicly listed houses for entertainment value, in a space that you have to enter voluntarily. Why do you care?

I have no idea what kind of stuff this guy is saying, but I am pretty certain any PvP related stream/video will contain just as much provocative content.

Where does this need to police people playing video games come frome?

And in the end, de gustibus non est disputandum.

It's rude, frankly, and it discourages people from participating. I don't see any reason to tolerate or encourage poor behavior. Most of us are chill and play the game to have fun, picking apart builds and saying snarky things is mean-spirited, and while I don't see why it should be ban worthy, a warning or a temporary social ban might make it a less viable pastime.

It very well may be rude and distasteful. But what's the reportable offense? Being a mean person? There's no grounds for any kind of ban, social or temporary.

The onlly action that can be taken against such a person is to just ignore it and not bring attention to them. But you kinda botched that already cuz I'll bet dollars to donuts this thread will spark interest in people now searchinig Twitch for exactly such a person.

Elsonso · August 21

RexyCat wrote: »

Make sure when player are reporting that they have video evidence which cleary show that this streamer/player are violating Code of Conduct and ToS.

I see this as the key point in the whole thread.

While trash talking is counter to a happy community, it seems to me that they can do this without violating any CoC or ToS. People are free to have negative opinions, and express those opinions in critical discourse, and they don't have to sugar coat it.

Now, if they are a Stream Team member, or want to be, I am sure ZOS has other things that they can consider. ZOS likely has a community friendly outlook for the Stream Team.

I would exercise due caution to make sure that they are actually breaking rules and stick to those rules in any reports.

Vaqual · August 21

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

It sounds like he is offering his opinion about publicly listed houses for entertainment value, in a space that you have to enter voluntarily. Why do you care?

I have no idea what kind of stuff this guy is saying, but I am pretty certain any PvP related stream/video will contain just as much provocative content.

Where does this need to police people playing video games come frome?

And in the end, de gustibus non est disputandum.

It's rude, frankly, and it discourages people from participating. I don't see any reason to tolerate or encourage poor behavior. Most of us are chill and play the game to have fun, picking apart builds and saying snarky things is mean-spirited, and while I don't see why it should be ban worthy, a warning or a temporary social ban might make it a less viable pastime.

I get that it is bothersome, but this is a very predictable and obvious consequence that almost always applies when something is made accessible for the wider public. I won't list my houses, but I am much more concered about EHT and build-stealing. As long as this is not happening on the ESO forums or ingame I don't see why ZOS should take actions against people expressing their opinions on other platforms. These platforms have their own guidelines.

ComboBreaker88 · August 21

Just because you don't like someone's opinion, does not mean they are wrong. Or that they should be punished.

Stafford197 · August 21

Idk the streamer, and I’m not in favor of someone trash talking another’s home, but this sounds like a very dangerous precedent to set if we ban people for criticism.

If we are going to blur the lines between extreme stuff which should be bannable (such as making threats) and minor stuff which doesn’t matter (if I say the lamp you put in your house looks weird) then I’m just not going to interact with this system at all out of principle.

@ZOS_Kevin Mind providing some clarity on what the player behavior expectation is for this feature?

Syldras · August 21

It may be unfriendly and against the community spirit, but ZOS' TOS only apply to their own "property", which would be this forum, and the game chat and message system. Speaking rudely about ESO content, even if it's user-created, is certainly neither against the TOS of video pages or other message boards, nor a criminal offense.

If it's real, serious, severe insults, threats or hatespeech against a person, in some legislations, it can be reported to authorities. Although the most difficult thing then is to prove that you are indeed the person meant by the username that gets attacked. I know this because it gets in the news every now and then, that people sending crude death threats on social media had indeed been sued. It's normally politics-related, btw.

If it's just insulting the house... try not to take it to heart. I know some put many hours and great efforts into building something - take pride in that. You have accomplished building this. It doesn't matter that some random person online babbles some nonsense about it. A person that probably can't achieve something like that himself, otherwise he would not need to talk other people's works down. It's so pitiful, it can be ignored.

Artim_X · August 21

PvP streamers trash talk peeps all the time, but that isn't cause for ZOS to take action. Housing streams have always been a thing, but I could see the new system making them more popular.

Like others have said, when you list your house you're essentially opting into being critiqued (ex: getting a recommendation).

valenwood_vegan · August 21

I don't know what this streamer is saying, but public criticism of something that was presented to the public for viewing is an obvious and expected consequence - it may cross over to rude, distasteful, even mean... but that's not a violation to be policed by ZoS.

Now I imagine a line could be crossed at some point as others have mentioned - ie: threats, personal insults, etc., against the player who made the house, and that would be different. Or, for example, if someone starts harassing the player about their house personally, sending them messages, etc. If someone has violated the TOS or Code of Conduct, report them.

There is some good advice above that I'll repeat:

Syldras wrote: »

If it's just insulting the house... try not to take it to heart. I know some put many hours and great efforts into building something - take pride in that. You have accomplished building this. It doesn't matter that some random person online babbles some nonsense about it. A person that probably can't achieve something like that himself, otherwise he would not need to talk other people's works down. It's so pitiful, it can be ignored.

Related to all of this though - I wonder if adding a player to a house's "banlist" list would prevent that player from visiting a house listed on the housing tour feature? This could be at least a crude, but partial solution to the problem, where if word gets around that this streamer is trash talking peoples' houses, they may start to find themselves blocked from visiting them.

spartaxoxo · August 21

Is this the person that made jokes like "Birds too close to food 0/10" that had some people volunteering their homes to be roasted on Reddit. I think some people asked them to roast their house? Or is this different?

If it's volunteers, then it seems more like in good fun with like minded people?

kevkj · August 21

I report the top sellers in my guilds to the IRS every week for not reporting their in-game income.

Gabriel_H · August 21

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

Just because you don't like someone's opinion, does not mean they are wrong. Or that they should be punished.

If they are giving their negative opinion to benefit themselves, particularly financially, then their is bias in the motivation, and a cloud over whether or not those opinions are genuine.

If it is a violation of ZOS ToS/Code of conduct (I don't know if it is or isn't without looking) then giving their opinion is irrelevant to any punishment, as the punishment is for the violation, not the opinion - and the OP didn't say "they should be punished", they asked if it was "reportable". i.e is it a violation of ToS.

jaws343 · August 21

Gabriel_H wrote: »

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

Just because you don't like someone's opinion, does not mean they are wrong. Or that they should be punished.

If they are giving their negative opinion to benefit themselves, particularly financially, then their is bias in the motivation, and a cloud over whether or not those opinions are genuine.

If it is a violation of ZOS ToS/Code of conduct (I don't know if it is or isn't without looking) then giving their opinion is irrelevant to any punishment, as the punishment is for the violation, not the opinion - and the OP didn't say "they should be punished", they asked if it was "reportable". i.e is it a violation of ToS.

Asking if something is reportable is asking if something can be punished. If there were no expected punishment, then there is no reason to report.

And, as long as the streamer isn't directly harassing individual players, and only commenting on the houses, I see zero case for any violations. Critique is certainly not something anyone should be seeking to punish.

Syldras · August 21

Gabriel_H wrote: »

If they are giving their negative opinion to benefit themselves, particularly financially, then their is bias in the motivation, and a cloud over whether or not those opinions are genuine.

I don't think making opinion videos, even if they only serve to gain financial profit, is forbidden anywhere. No matter if the opinion is positive or negative.

For me, the main question here is what exactly these videos are about. It's hard to tell without background into. In this thread, it seems all is muddled together (which baffles me, to be honest): Criticism, trash-talking, insulting, snarky remarks, joking/banter... There's a big diffence between all these things. An art critic doesn't trash-talk a painting, and insulting a painter's mother is no art review. The question that matters here is whether the line to severe personal insults, threats or hatespeech is crossed. And even then I doubt that ZOS can do anything about it; it would be the video platform that would have to take care of it.

JavaRen · August 21

"Can/ should ZOS punish players for actions/ words outside of ZOS' property/ platform?"

A resounding OBLIVION NO!

derkaiserliche · August 21

Its the same with social media:

If you cant stand negative comments or feedback, dont put your work/face/opinion into the public.

And if you normally get good feedback, why do you care about this random dude commenting on houses?

tsaescishoeshiner · August 21

If they're a Stream Team member, it might be worth sharing a clip with ZOS or something.

I don't think people should worry about not posting a house for people to visit in case an ESO streamer says something unkind lol. That sounds like people who are looking for a reason not to like Home Tours, which is a benign and positive feature. It's not for everyone, but I've already made friends visiting random listed houses and talked about decoration.

Not only is it highly highly unlikely that a streamer finds your house or bothers to be unkind about it, on top of them being a stranger whose opinion shouldn't matter to you, ESO streamers all have less than like 20 viewers, most of whom are probably AFK, tuned out multitasking, or cats lol.

Hapexamendios · August 22

If you don't like his comments, ignore them. Publicity is what they are seeking so don't draw attention to it.

GuuMoonRyoung · August 22

Sometimes I wonder whether or not the rating of this game M(17+) or E(3+)...

SilverBride · August 22

I don't know what ZoS could do about this. If a player puts their houses up to be viewed by anyone and everyone then this is the risk they take. ZoS has no authority over other social media that I am aware of.

This whole housing tour is nothing like the EHT Community with its open houses. I will never put my houses on it, not because I'm afraid of negative comments on my builds, but because it is just too easy to manipulate.

thorwyn · August 22

We're not in North Korea. People can criticize, diss, flame and badmouth other people's work however they want.
The idea of reporting someone because they said something you do not like to hear is bizarre. Seriously, who do you guys think you are?

Lugaldu · August 22

There's another thing that bothers me about the whole story: assuming I take part in Housing Tours and open up my houses, I would do that as part of the game. To interact with the community in-game. But it would bother me extremely if someone else then made videos of my houses and presented them on some other platform. Sure, you could say that by participating in Housing Tours I am making my content available to the public, but the basic idea is that I am doing this for the in-game community and not for use by others on platforms outside of the game. And it's even worse when these people then use the content for their own financial gain.
For me there are more than enough reasons not to take part in Housing Tours.