the amount of combat changes is baffling

mmtaniac

Yup jabs still bad in pvp no damage at all.

BananaBender

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

bar_boss_A wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Honestly, the removal of Stam/Mag "identity" is a terrific change. It further skewed Class Identity to boil down to linear, nonsensical delineation based on which max resource you had. Unless you meant something else by what you said, I firmly disagree there.

understandable that my one line grudges did spark a discussion. To further clarify: nowadays speccing into max magicka or stamina is not worth the investment as all other stats scale much better and easier. Additionally, now that resource management is easy af there is no incentive to go this route. There should be a new incentive to stack into one resource or maybe both, some examples which come to my mind:

• hybridization on weapon/spell damage and crits but not on max resource would help distinguish hybrids from mono builds. You could either slot all the strongest skills and they are a bit less effective as you sit around 20k max mag and stam. Or you restrict yourself on skills by investing into only one resource but therefore your chosen skills hit/heal/tank a bit harder.
• alternatively healing could get a stronger max stat modifier and a weaker weapon/spell damage modifier. So you could invest more into spell/weapon damage and have higher damage but weaker heals or invest into max resources and have lower damage but higher heals (this would bring max Hp based heals in line)

Just some ideas to make max resource stacking interesting again

bit of a radical idea from me and some people ive discussed this with, and i'm sure many other people have suggested it, but i think for the health of the game and healers as a role, healing should be massively reduced across the board. healing in pve is simply ridiculous in the fact that topping people up is easy to do with 1-2 abilities and playing healer doesn't feel like it's about healing. tanks and healers are just supports. i think to solve this, healing should be entirely removed from weapon/spell damage scaling. when heals do as much as they currently do, you can mostly sustain yourself without any healers with just a tiny amount of investment, usually in 1 slot in your bar, or through strong passive healing in a rotational buff/skill. pvp healing is so high its also a bit of a disaster as well, though damage too is also incredibly strong. making a change like this would also require adjustments to damage outputs and tankiness as well, so it seems like an unlikely thing to happen. but after playing WoW and realising that healers can actually exist as a real thing and not like an afterthought in that game was pretty crazy to me.

It would be really nice if healers were needed more. It's a shame that running most of the dungeons without a healer is easier than running them one. In my mind healers are in pretty good spot when it comes to trial HMs, you can clearly tell when you are playing with a good healer compared to a bad one. It's just a shame that in easier content they just aren't that important.

For them to fully rework healers and healing would also require them to rework the newest trials, which I just don't see happening. I fear that this would just lead to another hybridization, which gets started and gets abandoned halfway resulting in a worse experience overall.

alpha_synuclein

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

bit of a radical idea from me and some people ive discussed this with, and i'm sure many other people have suggested it, but i think for the health of the game and healers as a role, healing should be massively reduced across the board. healing in pve is simply ridiculous in the fact that topping people up is easy to do with 1-2 abilities and playing healer doesn't feel like it's about healing. tanks and healers are just supports. i think to solve this, healing should be entirely removed from weapon/spell damage scaling. when heals do as much as they currently do, you can mostly sustain yourself without any healers with just a tiny amount of investment, usually in 1 slot in your bar, or through strong passive healing in a rotational buff/skill. pvp healing is so high its also a bit of a disaster as well, though damage too is also incredibly strong. making a change like this would also require adjustments to damage outputs and tankiness as well, so it seems like an unlikely thing to happen. but after playing WoW and realising that healers can actually exist as a real thing and not like an afterthought in that game was pretty crazy to me.

Those are interesting takes (from PVE healers perspective). But the main reasons why healers are not essential in most of the content is that self-heals are so strong and "heals on dealing damage" abilities are so prevalent. As long as DDs can easily heal themselves, healers will not be needed, short of the hardest content. Disconnecting healing power from offensive stats would change that significantly, but it will hurt solo players, who'd lost the ability to self heal easily. And this is not something that ZOS will ever consider.

Nerfing healing overall will probably not help making healers more needed either (outside the hardest content). Why bring weak healer if you can have extra DD and finish fights with less risk?

ESO_Nightingale

BananaBender wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

bar_boss_A wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Honestly, the removal of Stam/Mag "identity" is a terrific change. It further skewed Class Identity to boil down to linear, nonsensical delineation based on which max resource you had. Unless you meant something else by what you said, I firmly disagree there.

understandable that my one line grudges did spark a discussion. To further clarify: nowadays speccing into max magicka or stamina is not worth the investment as all other stats scale much better and easier. Additionally, now that resource management is easy af there is no incentive to go this route. There should be a new incentive to stack into one resource or maybe both, some examples which come to my mind:

• hybridization on weapon/spell damage and crits but not on max resource would help distinguish hybrids from mono builds. You could either slot all the strongest skills and they are a bit less effective as you sit around 20k max mag and stam. Or you restrict yourself on skills by investing into only one resource but therefore your chosen skills hit/heal/tank a bit harder.
• alternatively healing could get a stronger max stat modifier and a weaker weapon/spell damage modifier. So you could invest more into spell/weapon damage and have higher damage but weaker heals or invest into max resources and have lower damage but higher heals (this would bring max Hp based heals in line)

Just some ideas to make max resource stacking interesting again

bit of a radical idea from me and some people ive discussed this with, and i'm sure many other people have suggested it, but i think for the health of the game and healers as a role, healing should be massively reduced across the board. healing in pve is simply ridiculous in the fact that topping people up is easy to do with 1-2 abilities and playing healer doesn't feel like it's about healing. tanks and healers are just supports. i think to solve this, healing should be entirely removed from weapon/spell damage scaling. when heals do as much as they currently do, you can mostly sustain yourself without any healers with just a tiny amount of investment, usually in 1 slot in your bar, or through strong passive healing in a rotational buff/skill. pvp healing is so high its also a bit of a disaster as well, though damage too is also incredibly strong. making a change like this would also require adjustments to damage outputs and tankiness as well, so it seems like an unlikely thing to happen. but after playing WoW and realising that healers can actually exist as a real thing and not like an afterthought in that game was pretty crazy to me.

It would be really nice if healers were needed more. It's a shame that running most of the dungeons without a healer is easier than running them one. In my mind healers are in pretty good spot when it comes to trial HMs, you can clearly tell when you are playing with a good healer compared to a bad one. It's just a shame that in easier content they just aren't that important.

For them to fully rework healers and healing would also require them to rework the newest trials, which I just don't see happening. I fear that this would just lead to another hybridization, which gets started and gets abandoned halfway resulting in a worse experience overall.

i completely agree. its nice to theorise about potential changes they could do, but as its been proved time and time again, ZOS can't stick with a direction on changes.