Health Recovery

Alchimiste1 · July 31

Suggestion: buff health recovery by 10-15-%(in pvp)

I would like to bring out sets likes 7th legion out from the storage

NuarBlack · August 1

I get that the troll king meta was almost as bad as the current undeath meta but the battle Spirit nerf was pretty heavy handed. Health recovery and healing were never a 1:1 so while I understand battle Spirit affecting it, they shouldn't have been the same.

Turtle_Bot · August 1

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Suggestion: buff health recovery by 10-15-%(in pvp)

I would like to bring out sets likes 7th legion out from the storage

It definitely needs something.

The fact that a health recovery tank build sitting at 6-7k health recovery in PvP is squishier than a typical stage 3 vamp brawler build is crazy.

Urzigurumash · August 1

Where are the people who so loudly demanded its nerf in 2021?

Aces-High-82 · August 1

11k HP reg Stamsorc was bonkers....

Lalothen · August 1

NuarBlack wrote: »

I get that the troll king meta was almost as bad as the current undeath meta but the battle Spirit nerf was pretty heavy handed. Health recovery and healing were never a 1:1 so while I understand battle Spirit affecting it, they shouldn't have been the same.

Exactly.

If the impact of Battle Spirit on health rec were to be reduced by around 15% then it would re-open the opportunity to incorporate higher health recovery into builds as an alternative method of passively mitigating damage - and it would be mutually exclusive with vamp's Undeath too.

xylena_lazarow · August 1

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Where are the people who so loudly demanded its nerf in 2021?

Zero people were demanding an entire mechanic be made unplayably bad. Let 7th Legion out of jail.

YandereGirlfriend · August 1

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Where are the people who so loudly demanded its nerf in 2021?

I'm glad that Health Regen cheese is no longer a thing. No need whatsoever to bring that sordid chapter of ESO PvP back.

Sluggy · August 1

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Where are the people who so loudly demanded its nerf in 2021?

*raises hand*
Still here.
Sometimes, anyway.

Health recovery can still be a useful bit of extra healing on the side that I think a lot of people overlook. I regularly enjoy getting an extra 1k every couple of seconds on one of my builds since I don't particularly do anything to achieve it. But that's what it should be. An auxiliary healing source to help negate a dot or two, not a main source of survival that can outpace a legit PvE rotation. Things are out of whack across the board and I don't think bumping hp regen is going to help in any way.

Urzigurumash · August 1

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Where are the people who so loudly demanded its nerf in 2021?

I'm glad that Health Regen cheese is no longer a thing. No need whatsoever to bring that sordid chapter of ESO PvP back.

Chapter as in 8 years though. Buncha people didn't notice it until its final Icarian supernova and its left a hole in the ecosystem to which I partly attribute the 2 Year Long Buzzsaw DK meta and the current Procblade meta. ( I don't also include Godsorcs as the meta because MagSorc is supposed to be a God tier class because they only kill bad players that deserve their suffering, amen)

Anyhow if you look at our arguments from the time I said the way to move forward with the suddenly OP HP Regen was to buff active healing, this was done with the additional baseline 1k Weapon Damage.

My main point in bringing up the past though is that we should ignore calls to delete HP Scaled Heals, they're a part of the ecosystem and simply deleting them will result in a further narrowing of viable build types as did the deletion of HP Regen.

I disagree with the general underlying premise that standing still is ignoble and sprinting and roll-dodging around a rock or stairs is artful and virtuous.

Urzigurumash · August 1

It was actually the combination of HP Regen and Mobility where it was most imbalanced. These were nearly all the "cheese" applications of HP Regen, really didn't find their first use until BGs came out, useful only in Scroll Running prior.

Anyhow the meaningful consequence of it all:

Do we find Keep Defense more difficult than in the past? Is it simply too easy to wipe out a Keep's defenders once its flagged?

On the BG side it's more difficult to assess since everybody is bored with objectives in a way they're not in Cyro.

NuarBlack · August 1

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I'm glad that Health Regen cheese is no longer a thing. No need whatsoever to bring that sordid chapter of ESO PvP back.

We definitely don't need to go back to what it was, I think the pendulum could swing back to the middle so it is a viable build option. Plus, it is a direct counterpoint to vamp and undeath.

Lots of things that amplified health recovery have been nerfed since. Major protection isn't 30% anymore and swift jewelry was nerfed as well. Many shields and sets have been nerfed as well. So I think there is a middle ground that could be found that wouldn't be broken but would open up build options.

fred4 · August 2

The first thing 7th Legion would need is being able to refresh it while it's not completely run out yet.

Aside from that, I disagree about health regen. ZOS liberally added sources into the game after the PvP nerf. We didn't have it on gold food in the past. We didn't have Strategic Reserve. Nor Gaze of Sithis. Not that I think that's a good mythic, but there's also a bunch of other new(ish) sets. If you really want to build for it, you can have 4K to 5K health regen in PvP today. Would that be a good build? Probably not, but I see no reason to push our luck with balancing. Health regen filled a gap for stamsorcs in the past. Well, I don't know about the stam variant and I'd have to review where that class gets it's +20% from, but magsorcs are in such a good place right now, this is truly not needed.

Urzigurumash · August 2

It's an inefficient choice in PvP because it's available in equal proportion to Mag and Stam Regen which isn't halved.

I agree its time is past and we have no need for it, again I speak only of its past as a reminder to how suddenly overperforming build elements can't simply be deleted without nearly unimaginable consequences throughout the ecosystem.

Such as the HP Regen nerf in no small part leading to the overperformance of FlameDK.

Which none of us anticipated that I recall. After all DK has only 1 Major buff in its class kit that no others have: Major Fortitude!

Turtle_Bot · August 2

fred4 wrote: »

The first thing 7th Legion would need is being able to refresh it while it's not completely run out yet.

Aside from that, I disagree about health regen. ZOS liberally added sources into the game after the PvP nerf. We didn't have it on gold food in the past. We didn't have Strategic Reserve. Nor Gaze of Sithis. Not that I think that's a good mythic, but there's also a bunch of other new(ish) sets. If you really want to build for it, you can have 4K to 5K health regen in PvP today. Would that be a good build? Probably not, but I see no reason to push our luck with balancing. Health regen filled a gap for stamsorcs in the past. Well, I don't know about the stam variant and I'd have to review where that class gets it's +20% from, but magsorcs are in such a good place right now, this is truly not needed.

Going to have to disagree with you on health regen being too strong with everything they've added since the nerf.

I have tried to make a health regen build work (got to 7k regen in PvP with psijics meditate (for percent based DR that matches undeath) on top), even with everything ZOS has given health recovery over the past few years it still doesn't work. The 2 second tick rate (basic mechanic of recoveries) combined with a notable lack of anything else in the build just makes it bad.

It's not like it needs to be 100% full power with no penalty since that would be too strong, but reducing the penalty to 30% instead of the current 50% or 55% would help a lot for making it an alternative to vampire for PvP when combined with the nerf to undeath proposed for next patch.

propertyOfUndefined · August 2

I agree with this. Seeing a line of Health Recovery on a set these days feels like a deal breaker. It was also one of the biggest downsides to vampirism. It needed to be adjusted, but 50% absolutely killed it.

Eternal Vigor: "Adds 337 Stamina and Magicka Recovery while your Health is above 50%. Adds 1011 Health Recovery while your Health is 50% or less."

When I see this, my mind goes "Good set if I can keep my health from falling below 50%, at that point it turns useless"

xDeusEJRx · August 3

Player logic:
High health survivability and healing 👍
High HP regen survivability and healing 👎

People will defend high health gameplay to death but want health regen nuked to oblivion. Make it make sense, either players like survivable builds that also provide passive healing or we don't.

I'm in the camp where I don't like either direction, but I also don't think it should be an utterly useless stat pool. I miss the days of stat dense builds where you need a bit of everything instead of just dumping all off stats in favor of high health and high damage/pen.

Tinkerhorn · August 3

Back when Alessians was a good set and eternal vigor a BiS sustain set.
To be honest I don't miss the High health Regen days of people purposefully combat locking you in IC districts with some high health regen mega tank so their friends could farm the bosses. If I remember correctly though it got nerfed after a CP was added with the CP slot which enabled +1000 to health regen? Used to play a brawler DK which cheesed health regen and vigor with torc to basically sustain drain everyone into victory. It was a rubbish and cheese build in all fairness but it was very successful. Probably best to see the back of those builds.

NuarBlack · August 11

Tinkerhorn wrote: »

Back when Alessians was a good set and eternal vigor a BiS sustain set.
To be honest I don't miss the High health Regen days of people purposefully combat locking you in IC districts with some high health regen mega tank so their friends could farm the bosses. If I remember correctly though it got nerfed after a CP was added with the CP slot which enabled +1000 to health regen? Used to play a brawler DK which cheesed health regen and vigor with torc to basically sustain drain everyone into victory. It was a rubbish and cheese build in all fairness but it was very successful. Probably best to see the back of those builds.

The battle Spirit nerf has made those builds impossible. All anyone is asking for is to change battle Spirit just enough so that health recovery isn't a worthless Stat and can compete with undeath. Not to bring back troll tanks.

Lalothen · August 11

Tinkerhorn wrote: »

If I remember correctly though it got nerfed after a CP was added with the CP slot which enabled +1000 to health regen?

If you maintain 500 ult at all times you get base 1500 hp rec in PvE, so 750 in PvP right now. Shaving 15% off the Battle Spirit health rec reduction would increase that to 975.

Used to play a brawler DK which cheesed health regen and vigor with torc to basically sustain drain everyone into victory. It was a rubbish and cheese build in all fairness but it was very successful. Probably best to see the back of those builds.

We've got a tonne of rubbish cheese builds all running around crutching on Undeath & proc sets now, so to be honest unnerfing health rec in PvP a bit so there's at least a viable alternative to Undeath would help make things a touch more diverse.

Turtle_Bot · August 11

Lalothen wrote: »

Tinkerhorn wrote: »

If I remember correctly though it got nerfed after a CP was added with the CP slot which enabled +1000 to health regen?

If you maintain 500 ult at all times you get base 1500 hp rec in PvE, so 750 in PvP right now. Shaving 15% off the Battle Spirit health rec reduction would increase that to 975.

Yep, basically give up ultimates entirely to gain sub 1k health recovery... Just not worth it, even with shaving 15% off the battle spirit recovery reduction would probably still be very meh.

mojomood · August 15

The only battle spirit rework that makes sense must include only stacking unique heals. Who cares that heals are 50% as effective when you have 12 stacks of vigor?

EnOeZ · August 16

The Health Recovery nerf is a spite in the face of all heavy armor non vampire players. I said it !

Medium armor : stam sustain
Light armor : magicka sustain
Heavy armor : 1/2 health sustain ??? Why ???

Either change Health Ragen to Ulti Regen on Heavy Armor or restore Health Regen.
Don't you absolutely HATE IT when a passive is made completely useless in the game ?

Like for example the Helping Hands passive for DragonKnight (Earthen Heart) with the "Stone Giant" ability made completely uselss.

I hope ZOS restore coherence in all of this.

the1andonlyskwex · August 16

NuarBlack wrote: »

I get that the troll king meta was almost as bad as the current undeath meta but the battle Spirit nerf was pretty heavy handed. Health recovery and healing were never a 1:1 so while I understand battle Spirit affecting it, they shouldn't have been the same.

What annoys me is that Troll King, specifically, got a double nerf. Not only was it obviously affected by the Battle Spirit change, but 1-2 patches before that it was also nerfed directly. The net result was that it's now notably weak, even compared to other health recovery sets.

YandereGirlfriend · August 16

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

I get that the troll king meta was almost as bad as the current undeath meta but the battle Spirit nerf was pretty heavy handed. Health recovery and healing were never a 1:1 so while I understand battle Spirit affecting it, they shouldn't have been the same.

What annoys me is that Troll King, specifically, got a double nerf. Not only was it obviously affected by the Battle Spirit change, but 1-2 patches before that it was also nerfed directly. The net result was that it's now notably weak, even compared to other health recovery sets.

Yeah, they banished Troll King to the shadow realm.

PudraSekeri · August 23

While HP recovery is reduced by half with Battle Spirit, the remaining HP recovery while in combat is again reduced by half. Despite the nerf, most people are still vampires.

NuarBlack · September 4

PudraSekeri wrote: »

While HP recovery is reduced by half with Battle Spirit, the remaining HP recovery while in combat is again reduced by half. Despite the nerf, most people are still vampires.

That's sort of the point is that HP recovery should offer an alternative to Vamp undeath. As even after the nerf, Undeath is still entirely worth it for pvp. Slightly un-nerfing health recovery so it competes with undeath

mmtaniac · September 4

I miss troll king set it was good way for any kind of templar defense or offense any can have good healing and be support thanks to that set.

sneakymitchell · September 12

Im glad i aint no khajjit with its health recovery even if you get both stam and magic recovery.

West93 · September 14

mmtaniac wrote: »

I miss troll king set it was good way for any kind of templar defense or offense any can have good healing and be support thanks to that set.

But now templars have healing from rune and have option to slot bubble. Templar healing is not a problem. Templar burst damage is biggest problem.

mmtaniac · September 14

I know but still it was good set until they destroy whole option to health regeneration builds on pvp. Having option is always good. You choose to use it or not. Right now it's no longer option.