Is MYM working as intended?

darvaria

Every single campaign is some version of the above. All MYM does is overload Cyro and I guess gives players a chance to get emp. Just let them buy the title and the house furnishing in the crown store.

darvaria

There is not even a chance for any real PVP. It's guilds or ball groups running over every map.

EdjeSwift

It is working as intended as in bonuses and double AP (maybe not Tel Var). The players are the ones doing this and they(ZoS) can only do so much. Some players have realized that PvDoor is a better ROI on time for a lot of them so things like this will happen.

Also, watching the populations throughout my playtime AD consistently has more bars than DC or EP at any given time so players are funneling to other campaigns while they may be waiting for the big campaigns to open up.

OsUfi

PC EU Ravenwatch and Greyhost are still long hard fought battles throughout the map. Blues dominating Ravenwatch is always a thing unfortunately (darn you Groz and your Grozlings).

But yes, it's bringing people into Cyro, some of which stay. I did. Whitestrakes is how I got into PvP, and 3-4 years later I'm still awful at it, but I've enjoyed almost every Friday in one Cyro or another since.

EdjeSwift wrote: »

Also, watching the populations throughout my playtime AD consistently has more bars than DC or EP at any given time so players are funneling to other campaigns while they may be waiting for the big campaigns to open up.

I'm always curious about life outside of PC EU. Seems every server has an entirely different take on who's doing what in each campaign. I haven't seen AD beat Blues in... Well... Forever on Raven. Usually means blue is full bar before either other alliance. I think yellow sometimes come out on top in Greyhost. For some reason, Quagmire (when it's up) I've often seen AD in the mornings then blue or red by the end of the day. It's how I've gotten all my skyshards on AD characters.

EdjeSwift

OsUfi wrote: »

I'm always curious about life outside of PC EU. Seems every server has an entirely different take on who's doing what in each campaign. I haven't seen AD beat Blues in... Well... Forever on Raven. Usually means blue is full bar before either other alliance. I think yellow sometimes come out on top in Greyhost. For some reason, Quagmire (when it's up) I've often seen AD in the mornings then blue or red by the end of the day. It's how I've gotten all my skyshards on AD characters.

Here are the current populations on PC/NA at 4PM PDT:

IC:

Cyrodiil:

Lotta Pop Locks on the big campaigns but big EP/AD presence on the others

When I was campaign shopping early both Ash and Gloam were full yellow with Ash having low pop bonus for blue for a little bit.

Edit: Just 2 hours later

Cyro:

IC:

Took a little break to touch grass and swap characters and the queue was big.

MEBengalsFan2001

PSN NA it’s usually EP or DC in GH that wins. Just this year AD has won two campaigns and close to its third.

darvaria

Wasn't "pointing a finger" at AD.

darvaria

Every single map is basically one color. I guess this is "fun". Glad to see some players have actually started PVP due to the event. I'm not selectively taking screen shots. it's this way all day. Unless you enjoy the 2 hour wait for GH.

darvaria

Even GH at prime time is nothing but pvdoor.

It's clear there is no balance with 3 factions now days. We only need TWO factions and a reduced map. You put in those outposts and towns when you had 200 players on each faction. The map is too big. And one faction always comes up really short. It's time for TWO factions and a smaller map. Get rid of towers at resources. I'm not sure we even need resources now. With a 60 v 60, just the keeps are enough. Take out every NPC in GH except guards. Eliminate everything you can to help players with lag (I only lag when I chunk a meat bag into a ball and get like 300k damage).

FlopsyPrince

I thought the sub name of the event was "Feed the Gankers".

Not as many this time, though I simply bail the activity when I hit them now, so they may be just as prevalent.

Katzenzunge

darvaria wrote: »

Even GH at prime time is nothing but pvdoor.

It's clear there is no balance with 3 factions now days. We only need TWO factions

...two factions.
In the THREE banners war?

I don't know, chief.

darvaria

We don't have the player base for 3 factions now. And the lag. Cap it at 60 v 60 with a smaller map. All the 3 factions does is let 1 or maybe 2 factions run the map. The 3rd faction usually gets run over. This would even help with night capping.

Three faction games for 2014. Follow WOW. TWO factions.

loosej

Low pop caps make any faction imbalance larger than it was with higher population. The larger the imbalance between factions, the lower the incentive for the losing side(s) to try at all. If people arrive on a map that's dominated by one of their opponents, they're more likely to just move on to a different campaign, adding to the problem and resulting in the screenshots we're seeing here.

Using some easy numbers to explain the math: if one side has 100 players and another 101, that one person difference makes the second side 1% stronger (assuming every player is equally strong). If it's 50 vs 51, that one person makes a 2% difference. If you keep going down to the absolute minimum, at 2 vs 3 that one person adds 50%, and at 1 vs 2 it's 100%. If you scale up to 1000 vs 1001, a single person only makes 0.1% of a difference.

Using the original pop caps of 600/faction, a difference of 10 players for example (590 vs 600) wouldn't have mattered all that much. But today a 10 player difference will be very noticeable (50 vs 60).

Chess players for example make use of this by trying to get 1 piece ahead of their opponent (capturing a pawn can be enough), and then trading pieces (a pawn for a pawn, a rook for a rook, ...) until the board is almost cleared. At this point their one extra pawn becomes a huge advantage.

Then there's ballgroups to consider. If we keep with the chess analogy, a ballgroup would imo be comparable to a queen, a unit with supreme power and mobility. A high pop cap campaign where one side has a ballgroup is like playing a regular game of chess where one side starts with a queen and one side without. The side with the queen has a clear advantage, but she is still limited in her movement, and can easily be overwhelmed when moving too far into enemy territory without the proper backup. In a low pop cap campaign this scenario is more like a board where there's only 4 pawns left on one side, and 3 pawns + a queen on the other. Unless they're about to complete a crucial step in a genious plan, the losing side will lay down their king in such a scenario.

Kisakee

darvaria wrote: »

We don't have the player base for 3 factions now. And the lag. Cap it at 60 v 60 with a smaller map. All the 3 factions does is let 1 or maybe 2 factions run the map. The 3rd faction usually gets run over. This would even help with night capping.

Three faction games for 2014. Follow WOW. TWO factions.

"Oh, there's one faction dominating both of the others factions. It should only be two factions in total, that would totally change it."
What kind of weird logic are you following?

ToRelax

Kisakee wrote: »

darvaria wrote: »

We don't have the player base for 3 factions now. And the lag. Cap it at 60 v 60 with a smaller map. All the 3 factions does is let 1 or maybe 2 factions run the map. The 3rd faction usually gets run over. This would even help with night capping.

Three faction games for 2014. Follow WOW. TWO factions.

"Oh, there's one faction dominating both of the others factions. It should only be two factions in total, that would totally change it."
What kind of weird logic are you following?

Probably the same as their "make everyone fight in one place to deal with the lag" idea.

SeaGtGruff

I think limiting the war to two sides is a great idea!

On Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, it can be limited to just DC and AD.

On Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays, it can be limited to just DC and EP.

On Sundays, it can be limited to just DC and the Imperials.

Sounds like a winning idea to me!

Okay, now that you've rejected my idea, tell us how you're planning to divide the three alliances into just two factions.

Monte_Cristo

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I think limiting the war to two sides is a great idea!

Okay, now that you've rejected my idea, tell us how you're planning to divide the three alliances into just two factions.

I think Nords and Orcs would fit well together, both being warrior cultures from the northern mountains with a focus in strength. Maybe put Bosmer and Argonians together, as the two nature worshiping cultures?
Divide them by north and south, maybe Dunmer, Nord, Orc, Breton, Redguard. And Khajiit, Altmer, Bosmer, Imperial, Argonian?

TybaltKaine

No one takes into account the player base and time of day.

During the Day on the East coast, usually from 6 AM to 10 AM there is a very heavy DC and AD population. Around 10 AM, EP starts waking up (which leads me to believe it is very popular on the West coast of the US) and DC starts to die down (leading me to believe that DC is primarily European or Asian players, at least on the NA servers). AD tends to fade around Noon before picking back up around 6 PM, which coincidentally lines up with when most folks are at work or busy during the day.

So what you see is that early mornings until around 10 am DC and AD are very heavy with little EP presence
From noon until like 5 or 6 EP dominates with a heavy AD presence and a middling DC presence (the sweet spot for all three IMO)
From 6 PM to around 2 AM AD dominates with a heavy EP presence and DC trickling in (sweet spot on Fridays, Saturdays and some of Sunday)
from 2 am until around 8 AM DC dominates with a heavy AD presence and EP trickling in

My hypothesis is this:

AD = East coast US players
DC = European and Asian players on NA servers
EP = West coast US players

This isn't monolithic, but I've seen this pattern hold true for a few years now.

EDIT: The advantage of being retired is that I get to see this data unfold in real time most days, cause I can "No Life" during MYM and watch for the patterns.

Bammlschwamml

@darvaria so when you buy an awesome sports car and the engine is breaking down, you would rather take away the "sports car parts" until it's just an old rusty lawn mower? Instead of fixing the broken engine? It seems like that's what's happening to Cyrodiil anyway, but you want to do it even faster? I really don't understand the logic behind that.

I would have no problem with adding pvp content like new maps and game modes. But please stop downsizing and destroying what we have.

RaikaNA

darvaria wrote: »

There is not even a chance for any real PVP. It's guilds or ball groups running over every map.

Join a pvp guild so you can get in on the action

JustLovely

darvaria wrote: »

We don't have the player base for 3 factions now. And the lag. Cap it at 60 v 60 with a smaller map. All the 3 factions does is let 1 or maybe 2 factions run the map. The 3rd faction usually gets run over. This would even help with night capping.

Three faction games for 2014. Follow WOW. TWO factions.

We have more than enough people wanting to play in Grey Host. What's choking the life out of Cyrodiil is the crazy low population caps so most people can't even get into the zone to play.

reazea

On another note, the tel var dropping is not doubled as stated in the event description. This was brought up day one and no comment on it from ZOS yet either.

Kisakee

JustLovely wrote: »

darvaria wrote: »

We don't have the player base for 3 factions now. And the lag. Cap it at 60 v 60 with a smaller map. All the 3 factions does is let 1 or maybe 2 factions run the map. The 3rd faction usually gets run over. This would even help with night capping.

Three faction games for 2014. Follow WOW. TWO factions.

We have more than enough people wanting to play in Grey Host. What's choking the life out of Cyrodiil is the crazy low population caps so most people can't even get into the zone to play.

So who's first to complain about lag?

Jaraal

darvaria wrote: »

Every single map is basically one color. I guess this is "fun".

Why would anybody waste their time in a campaign where their faction is gated? Their home keeps are camped by zerglings that rush out the door and destroy any attempts to take them back.

It's better to go where your faction controls the map and you have the maximum AP bonuses. Plus you get to make 70-80k AP for repairing a keep, then be the zergling that runs out to slaughter the enemy when they try and take back their keeps as well.

Jaraal

reazea wrote: »

On another note, the tel var dropping is not doubled as stated in the event description. This was brought up day one and no comment on it from ZOS yet either.

At this point it's safe to say that the bugged drops will be ignored until the event is over (and beyond). No maintenance is scheduled, so it's pretty much a done deal. And it's sad, because Imperial City seems practically deserted as a result this Mayhem, while the Cyrodiil queues are unprecedentedly long.

darvaria

Ok the lore is already suggesting that AD and DC merge. It's a natural fit ADC. The quest line in High Isles definitely implied a merger. All that has to be done is let Queen Mayara die from a virus that is sweeping all of Tamerial. King Emeric will then marry AD Queen Ayrenn. The quest line dialogue in High Isles suggested he would be interested. So AD/DC merger is suggested by lore.

We just can't have those old battles with 300 plus players. A 60 v 60 with a little bit smaller map and NO wasted NPC's around except guards would probably take care of lag for most.

The map is just too large. Nothing but a giant PVP Door fest.

darvaria

Another MANDATORY condition would be EQUAL number of players. If one side only has 30 then other side will have to wait until that side gets more. The game could start at like 30 or 40 players

And put a 2 hour timer on it. No one wants ONE MONTH campaigns now days. We want to play a couple of hours and be done.

My photo's show what is basically happening during MYM. Well, it's this way all the time All ZOS is doing is providing a map for 10-15 players to PV Door the map. Other factions log in and leave when they see it.

In a 3 faction game, one side ALWAYS get double teamed. I just want to play against ONE other team, like all of the successful BG's in WOW do. Wow is in a weakened condition atm and NOW is the time to scoop up PVPers from that game.

CatoUnchained

Jaraal wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

On another note, the tel var dropping is not doubled as stated in the event description. This was brought up day one and no comment on it from ZOS yet either.

At this point it's safe to say that the bugged drops will be ignored until the event is over (and beyond). No maintenance is scheduled, so it's pretty much a done deal. And it's sad, because Imperial City seems practically deserted as a result this Mayhem, while the Cyrodiil queues are unprecedentedly long.

Yes sir. Yet another bug that is being ignored by ZOS. So disappointing. It's like they think these recurring issues don't hurt their reputation.

CatoUnchained

darvaria wrote: »

Another MANDATORY condition would be EQUAL number of players. If one side only has 30 then other side will have to wait until that side gets more. The game could start at like 30 or 40 players

And put a 2 hour timer on it. No one wants ONE MONTH campaigns now days. We want to play a couple of hours and be done.

My photo's show what is basically happening during MYM. Well, it's this way all the time All ZOS is doing is providing a map for 10-15 players to PV Door the map. Other factions log in and leave when they see it.

In a 3 faction game, one side ALWAYS get double teamed. I just want to play against ONE other team, like all of the successful BG's in WOW do. Wow is in a weakened condition atm and NOW is the time to scoop up PVPers from that game.

I want to go back to the 30 day campaigns. That way all campaigns are the same length. It's just weird that camps end on the first of the month regardless now. No consistency here.

darvaria

Right now it's a 1-2 hour wait to get in GH. WHO wants to go to one of those other campaigns where one faction controls the entire map. There is NOTHING to do in either case scenario. MYM has been a complete failure. I don't play to run around soloing resources or play with a group of 10 to PV Door the map. This morning I was on a team that literally took the map back from ONE player, the current emperor. It was stupid.

CatoUnchained

darvaria wrote: »

Right now it's a 1-2 hour wait to get in GH. WHO wants to go to one of those other campaigns where one faction controls the entire map. There is NOTHING to do in either case scenario. MYM has been a complete failure. I don't play to run around soloing resources or play with a group of 10 to PV Door the map. This morning I was on a team that literally took the map back from ONE player, the current emperor. It was stupid.

Ya, there is no excuse for population caps this low. That's why such long queue times.