Can we Talk About Warden Frozen Gate?

ForumSavant

This skill is used exclusively to troll in PvP. It is still used to pull people through doors, and exploit people out of keeps, and off bridges. A lot of the best fights end up getting ruined by someone in stealth who has set up a bunch of them to pull people off walls and through doors. Is there any reason, seven years after warden is released that this skill is still being used this way?

ESO_Nightingale

ForumSavant wrote: »

This skill is used exclusively to troll in PvP. It is still used to pull people through doors, and exploit people out of keeps, and off bridges. A lot of the best fights end up getting ruined by someone in stealth who has set up a bunch of them to pull people off walls and through doors. Is there any reason, seven years after warden is released that this skill is still being used this way?

we've asked if they could rework at least 1 morph for years now and thats not been done.

GuuMoonRyoung

PvP and PvE skills should be different. PvP and PvE should be two different meta games. Not only the skills, even gears, stats, buffs, debuffs should be different in PvP.

TechMaybeHic

Removing from walla seems like goid use of the intended mechanic to me. Same as a knock back off a wall.

DenverRalphy

Is this not working as intended? Does the arming time not allow for a dodge/roll?

ForumSavant

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Is this not working as intended? Does the arming time not allow for a dodge/roll?

You cannot see the skill once it's placed, the arming time doesn't matter if someone goes up to the third floor of a keep and there are invisible gates that pull you off. If you weren't on the third floor to see it and they are in stealth, you just get pulled out of the keep.

CrashTest

I can see how someone in a ball group or an annoying block tank wouldn't like it, but it's not trolling and also not used only in PvP, so I don't want to see it changed.

ForumSavant

CrashTest wrote: »

I can see how someone in a ball group or an annoying block tank wouldn't like it, but it's not trolling and also not used only in PvP, so I don't want to see it changed.

That's great that you personally don't want to see it changed, but it is trolling, and pulling people through doors/walls is stated to be an exploit, but still happens.

darvaria

You aren't really supposed to mention this on forums. Just accept it most likely isn't going to change. And yes, I see in every hour of PVP.

Sepultura_13

ForumSavant wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

I can see how someone in a ball group or an annoying block tank wouldn't like it, but it's not trolling and also not used only in PvP, so I don't want to see it changed.

That's great that you personally don't want to see it changed, but it is trolling, and pulling people through doors/walls is stated to be an exploit, but still happens.

I see it as trolling and/or exploiting, because you literally don't see the Frozen gate itself if an opposing alliance person has thrown it down. One minute you're in a major battle on a bridge, then suddenly *POOF* you're falling in the water to be chum for slaughterfish. The Frozen gates of a fellow alliance member always have the "E" activation option, so you can decline to use it in the same way that you can decline a rez.

An unexpected pull from an opposing alliance is an exploit, especially if it's invisible.

WuffyCerulei

CrashTest wrote: »

I can see how someone in a ball group or an annoying block tank wouldn't like it, but it's not trolling and also not used only in PvP, so I don't want to see it changed.

Seeing it first-hand being used to exploit enemy players into an unlit and unopened keep so they could easily take the keep and recording it all, I think SOMETHING needs to change in terms of coding or how the skill acts. Make it a chain, not a teleport. Something.

DenverRalphy

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

CrashTest wrote: »

I can see how someone in a ball group or an annoying block tank wouldn't like it, but it's not trolling and also not used only in PvP, so I don't want to see it changed.

Seeing it first-hand being used to exploit enemy players into an unlit and unopened keep so they could easily take the keep and recording it all, I think SOMETHING needs to change in terms of coding or how the skill acts. Make it a chain, not a teleport. Something.

Easiest fix would be to place a Line of Sight requirement on it. There's already a LoS mechanic in the game, so it shouldn't be difficult.

Red_Nine

Wow. This is still not fixed.

dark_hunterxmg

Red_Nine wrote: »

Wow. This is still not fixed.

Does it still pull people down from spawn points in IC? It would be awesome if it does. If they can shoot me, I should be able to pull them down. This skill should 100% work that way.

said no one ever

I see it is being used as intended and is not an expoit. I see you don't like it also. Thanks for the tips on how to use it.

Turtle_Bot

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ForumSavant wrote: »

This skill is used exclusively to troll in PvP. It is still used to pull people through doors, and exploit people out of keeps, and off bridges. A lot of the best fights end up getting ruined by someone in stealth who has set up a bunch of them to pull people off walls and through doors. Is there any reason, seven years after warden is released that this skill is still being used this way?

we've asked if they could rework at least 1 morph for years now and thats not been done.

Yep, this has been asked for almost since warden's release and yet still nothing...

ZOS had the perfect opportunity when adjusting Arctic blast to leave Arctic alone and change 1 morph of gate instead, unfortunately Arctic got deleted as a usable ability and gate remains 2 morphs of the same ability...

CalamityCat

Not everything bad that happens in PvP is an exploit or in need of a nerf.

If it hasn't been changed, maybe the devs intend it to be this way. Or they might suddenly decide it's a problem. Then break something instead of fixing it This is one of those "be careful what you wish for" situations IMHO.

With warden's specifically, after the arctic blast/frost damage changes, I'm sure the patch notes suggested they weren't done changing the class yet. But maybe wanted to see how those changes affected the class before making further adjustments.

Given that the devs are still in the process of testing stuff in PvP and potentially going to make some dramatic changes after that, this could already be on a very long list of changes.

LadyGP

ForumSavant wrote: »

This skill is used exclusively to troll in PvP. It is still used to pull people through doors, and exploit people out of keeps, and off bridges. A lot of the best fights end up getting ruined by someone in stealth who has set up a bunch of them to pull people off walls and through doors. Is there any reason, seven years after warden is released that this skill is still being used this way?

If I get troll pulled off a bridge and into the slaughter fish on more time I'm going to loooooossssseeee it.

It was hilarious the first time or two, especially when half our group got yeeted. Now it's just annoying.

Thumbless_Bot

I would love to see this skill reworked. For people that aren't trolling this is about as useless of a skill as I've ever seen. Well,maybe nature's grasp too.

said no one ever

i wish you wouldnt call it trolling or at least explain in what way it's trolling. People use a skill that they are given in a way that's useful and then they are told they are trolls or are trolling, that doesn't seem right. I get you don't like it but i see nothing wrong with using a skill they have been given to be successful in a way that works, It's clever and i hadnt thought of it before and likely b/c i'm not really a pvp kinda person. Really i'm not. I saw a blue guy a couple time in yellow delves and we just worked around each other. they were struggling in a tower to get a book and i showed them how to jump it with a horse and then we =both went on our way. I just go there for shards and the like and b/c its someplace else to go. In any case though i dont understand how you can complain that someone uses what they've been given and call them names/call out their behavior.

Thumbless_Bot

If something pulls an enemy through a wall, and we all agree that pulling an enemy through a wall is not intended gameplay, and users are using this skill to do this, even though we all agree it shouldn't work this way, they are trolling. If they don't know and it just happens then they aren't trolling. But seriously, does anyone actually use this skill who isn't trolling? If so, i apologize to them.

Oceanchanter

Just replace Frozen Gate with something else. Problem solved.

said no one ever

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

If something pulls an enemy through a wall, and we all agree that pulling an enemy through a wall is not intended gameplay, and users are using this skill to do this, even though we all agree it shouldn't work this way, they are trolling. If they don't know and it just happens then they aren't trolling. But seriously, does anyone actually use this skill who isn't trolling? If so, i apologize to them.

we dont all agree. i dont agree and surely the people using it dont agree. frozen gate is a portal. portals might pass through solid objects. working as intended, nothing to see here really. arcanist has a portal. you ban one porrtal might as well ban them all then. thier flashy mess of a heal spell screw me up when i play so it's not working as intended because i dont like it, lets please ban that too.

Thumbless_Bot

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Just replace Frozen Gate with something else. Problem solved.

Frozen garage door or frozen wooden fence?

What would you replace it with? Frozen picket fence sounds nice... each picket that hits the enemy causes them to mimic painting a fence for one second... kind of like charm...

Turtle_Bot

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Just replace Frozen Gate with something else. Problem solved.

Frozen garage door or frozen wooden fence?

What would you replace it with? Frozen picket fence sounds nice... each picket that hits the enemy causes them to mimic painting a fence for one second... kind of like charm...

I'm liking the sound of frozen window right now, but I suppose frozen roof wouldn't be bad either.

Elvenheart

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Oceanchanter wrote: »

Just replace Frozen Gate with something else. Problem solved.

Frozen garage door or frozen wooden fence?

What would you replace it with? Frozen picket fence sounds nice... each picket that hits the enemy causes them to mimic painting a fence for one second... kind of like charm...

I'm liking the sound of frozen window right now, but I suppose frozen roof wouldn't be bad either.

Frozen Happy Feet - You dance from one point to the other while everyone else around you is frozen in place and forced to clap. The cold never bothered me anyway!

YandereGirlfriend

The biggest issue with this skill is the duplicative nature of the two morphs, as they are functionally almost indistinguishable from one another (similar issue exists with the vine gap-close as well as Lotus).

There is huge potential for a re-work of one of the morphs into a DPS ability a la Scalding Rune but for Frost Damage.

The second issue is that it IS a huge trolling skill. You barely ever see this skill used outside of a trolling context. As has been stated, a simple LOS check would help cut down on the cheese potential with this.

Additionally, this skill is rarely used even for the Warden Tanks that it is supposed to be designed for. The clunky 1-second arming phase is a deal-breaker in most types of content when compared to instant cast abilities such as Silver Leash or the various Scribing pulls. I would advocate for removing the arming time and damage component while increasing the duration of the Major Maim to 10 seconds as well as allowing the Major Maim to proc even on enemies that are not pulled (such as PvE bosses). If those relatively simple changes were made, I would consider slotting the ability again for tanking.

Xarc

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

PvP and PvE skills should be different. PvP and PvE should be two different meta games. Not only the skills, even gears, stats, buffs, debuffs should be different in PvP.

I agree for several reasons.

The CAP of resistance is different in pvp/pve, critical hits (mobs/bosses do not give any critical hits), the management of ultimates, bosses do not purge themselves of poison/bleeding dots, etc. It is so different that we wonder how we can use the same skills for ... two different games?