ESO Blackjack / Other Card Games

VouxeTheMinotaur · July 18

I've never played ToT, it seems very Yu-Gi-Oh styled(?) with the whole attack power, defense power, boosts etc. which i was never into back in the days either, but does look very cool.

I was wondering if anyone would like to see anymore card games introduced into ESO? would be awesome to see those Inns and Taverns be packed with players around tables and such playing versions of blackjack, texas hold 'em, roulette, etc. betting with their own gold. Khajiit dealers talking like Pacrooti does with those crates, with guild mates just chilling at tables.

though, i understand the negative response this may generate since gambling could cause problems. I imagine the crown store is already enough of a gamble for players and introducing a new type would be meh

EdjeSwift · July 18

VouxeTheMinotaur wrote: »

though, i understand the negative response this may generate since gambling could cause problems. I imagine the crown store is already enough of a gamble for players and introducing a new type would be meh

This right here is the crux of the issue. There are legitimate jurisdictions/countries where this content could be inaccessible to part of the population.

Other card games with more creativity than the normal "gambling' games could be fun but most LCGs/CCGs/Deck Builder concepts are already out there and finding a new concept that wouldn't step on toes too much would be hard.

cozmic72 · July 18

If I want to play card games I will play a card game outside of ESO. Don’t want developer resources wasted on this type of stuff.

Personofsecrets · July 18

I think that it would be really cool if an in ESO client was developed to play The Elder Scrolls Legends. This should be a high priority!

Danikat · July 18

EdjeSwift wrote: »

VouxeTheMinotaur wrote: »

though, i understand the negative response this may generate since gambling could cause problems. I imagine the crown store is already enough of a gamble for players and introducing a new type would be meh

This right here is the crux of the issue. There are legitimate jurisdictions/countries where this content could be inaccessible to part of the population.

Other card games with more creativity than the normal "gambling' games could be fun but most LCGs/CCGs/Deck Builder concepts are already out there and finding a new concept that wouldn't step on toes too much would be hard.

In a lot of those countries the game is already inaccessible to part of the population because it's rated 18+.

In Europe (and other places that use the PEGI rating system) all that would change is they'd add the 'gambling' tag to the ones the game already has (violence and in-game purchases), to let potential customers, or more likely their parents, know the game includes casino type games. It wouldn't be subject to real-life gambling legislation unless you could directly bet real money.

Or they could make just enough changes to the rules that it's not a recognisable 1:1 copy of a casino game, but that's a lot of hassle to go to when it wouldn't affect the age rating or the games availability.

I suspect the main reason we haven't got more card games is because ToT isn't that popular. I know some people really like it, but I get the impression it's not a big part of the games total playerbase so ZOS probably don't think it's worth designing another game.

TaSheen · July 18

No thanks. Not interested in card games added to RPGs, and certainly uninterested in gambling (I lived in Vegas for years - had no interest in gambling then, and none now which includes the crates).

freespirit · July 18

Just as a side thought we already have a few table games as house furnishings, I've often thought it would be fun to play them! 🙂

Danikat · July 18

freespirit wrote: »

Just as a side thought we already have a few table games as house furnishings, I've often thought it would be fun to play them! 🙂

I like that idea.

Alinor Gaming Table, Punctilious Conflict looks like Solitaire (the board game, not the card game), and Solitude Game, Blood-on-the-Snow looks like it could be Alquerque (a precursor to checkers).

I wonder if the others are based on real-life board games too? If so it would save some time because ZOS wouldn't need to design a game, work out the rules etc. just build a way to play it within ESO. (I imagine something like ToT and antiquities where it brings up a new screen instead of playing it in the game world.)

Elsweyr Game, Swan Stones looks like a small Mancala board, but the stones are so big you could only fit 1 in each hole, and I don't know of any mancala games like that (there's a lot though, so it's possible one works that way). Solitude Game, Warrior and the Wolf makes me think of Tafl because of the central 'pillar' but the board is the wrong shape. I have no idea about the others.

Syldras · July 18

Danikat wrote: »

I wonder if the others are based on real-life board games too? If so it would save some time because ZOS wouldn't need to design a game, work out the rules etc. just build a way to play it within ESO. (I imagine something like ToT and antiquities where it brings up a new screen instead of playing it in the game world.)

Elsweyr Game, Swan Stones looks like a small Mancala board, but the stones are so big you could only fit 1 in each hole, and I don't know of any mancala games like that (there's a lot though, so it's possible one works that way). Solitude Game, Warrior and the Wolf makes me think of Tafl because of the central 'pillar' but the board is the wrong shape. I have no idea about the others.

Foxes and Felines is probably based on these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hounds_and_jackals
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senet

Swan Stones looks like Congklak, which is a variant of Mancala:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asian_mancala
https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkas:YosriCongkak1.jpg

LunaFlora · July 18

more games could be fun, but definitely do not want gambling like Blackjack.
Doubt zos would even want to add a gambling minigame

any of the game furnishings we have could be used for minigames.

Hlaalu Gaming Table, Foxes & Felines

Alinor Gaming Table, Punctilious Conflict

Solitude Game, Warrior and the Wolf

Solitude Game, Blood-on-the-Snow

Elsweyr Game, Swan Stones

Druidic Game, Marble Maze

Syldras · July 18

LunaFlora wrote: »

more games could be fun, but definitely do not want gambling like Blackjack.
Doubt zos would even want to add a gambling minigame

I wouldn't even mind gambling. But not modern casino games, but historical/medieval ones. Which would mostly be (rather simple) dice games. And not as a chapter feature, of course.

AzuraFan · July 18

I would much rather have new exploration/story content than any more games.

Syldras wrote: »

I wouldn't even mind gambling.

We already have a gambling game. It's called "crown crates."

Amottica · July 19

EdjeSwift wrote: »

VouxeTheMinotaur wrote: »

though, i understand the negative response this may generate since gambling could cause problems. I imagine the crown store is already enough of a gamble for players and introducing a new type would be meh

This right here is the crux of the issue. There are legitimate jurisdictions/countries where this content could be inaccessible to part of the population.

Other card games with more creativity than the normal "gambling' games could be fun but most LCGs/CCGs/Deck Builder concepts are already out there and finding a new concept that wouldn't step on toes too much would be hard.

This is it, well, part of it. There is a legal issue concerning gambling, and crates are not defined as gambling in many markets.

The other issue is the game's rating. In the USA, ESO is rated 17+, which is not an adult rating. As such, the game's rating would not permit activities that require the participants to be adults.

LalMirchi · July 19

No thanks, hate card games, haven't even tried Tales of Tribute yet.

Danikat · July 19

Syldras wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

I wonder if the others are based on real-life board games too? If so it would save some time because ZOS wouldn't need to design a game, work out the rules etc. just build a way to play it within ESO. (I imagine something like ToT and antiquities where it brings up a new screen instead of playing it in the game world.)

Elsweyr Game, Swan Stones looks like a small Mancala board, but the stones are so big you could only fit 1 in each hole, and I don't know of any mancala games like that (there's a lot though, so it's possible one works that way). Solitude Game, Warrior and the Wolf makes me think of Tafl because of the central 'pillar' but the board is the wrong shape. I have no idea about the others.

Foxes and Felines is probably based on these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hounds_and_jackals
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senet

Swan Stones looks like Congklak, which is a variant of Mancala:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asian_mancala
https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkas:YosriCongkak1.jpg

The Swan Stones board looks like Congklak (and many Mancala boards), the thing which makes me think it's different is the stones are so big they entirely fill the holes, meaning it would be impossible to get more than 1 per space and all the Mancala games I know of revolve around getting multiple stones into the same hole.

I agree Foxes and Felines looks like Hounds and Jackals (there's also the obvious similarity in the name) and possibly Senet, but if that is the inspiration it might be more difficult for ZOS because the rules to both have been lost. Although I suppose they could use one of the re-created rule sets.

Amottica wrote: »

EdjeSwift wrote: »

VouxeTheMinotaur wrote: »

though, i understand the negative response this may generate since gambling could cause problems. I imagine the crown store is already enough of a gamble for players and introducing a new type would be meh

This right here is the crux of the issue. There are legitimate jurisdictions/countries where this content could be inaccessible to part of the population.

Other card games with more creativity than the normal "gambling' games could be fun but most LCGs/CCGs/Deck Builder concepts are already out there and finding a new concept that wouldn't step on toes too much would be hard.

This is it, well, part of it. There is a legal issue concerning gambling, and crates are not defined as gambling in many markets.

The other issue is the game's rating. In the USA, ESO is rated 17+, which is not an adult rating. As such, the game's rating would not permit activities that require the participants to be adults.

There may be places where that would be a problem but in the USA and Europe a game is only classified as gambling if you can actually win and lose real money. As long as you can't bet real-life cash on the virtual games it's at most 'simulated gambling' which gets a much lower rating.

For example there's a game called Super Blackjack Battle 2 which is entirely about playing Blackjack at tables in a casino (because you've been invited to a tournment run by a crime lord). It's rated Teen by the ESRB and 12+ by PEGI.

(There's also numerous poker games with similar ratings.)

Syldras · July 19

Danikat wrote: »

The Swan Stones board looks like Congklak (and many Mancala boards), the thing which makes me think it's different is the stones are so big they entirely fill the holes, meaning it would be impossible to get more than 1 per space and all the Mancala games I know of revolve around getting multiple stones into the same hole.

I agree Foxes and Felines looks like Hounds and Jackals (there's also the obvious similarity in the name) and possibly Senet, but if that is the inspiration it might be more difficult for ZOS because the rules to both have been lost. Although I suppose they could use one of the re-created rule sets.

I can imagine that the game designs in ESO are a mix of different real world designs (a thing they do very often when it comes to furniture - the weirdest example is the Yokudan sarcophagus lid that looks like an ancient Egyptian one, just with the head of the figure exchanged with a Persian/Zoroastrian one) and only intended to make it look "interesting" somehow, without really thinking about playability. So they would probably make up their own rules for them anyway.

Amottica wrote: »

There may be places where that would be a problem but in the USA and Europe a game is only classified as gambling if you can actually win and lose real money. As long as you can't bet real-life cash on the virtual games it's at most 'simulated gambling' which gets a much lower rating.

These were really popular in the 90's here. So much for children and play-gambling without betting real money...

Tandor · July 19

cozmic72 wrote: »

If I want to play card games I will play a card game outside of ESO. Don’t want developer resources wasted on this type of stuff.

Also, there's supposed to be an issue with shortage of database space which was stated to be why we had account-wide achievements forced on us in the way that they were, so it doesn't make sense for non-core features to be implemented that simply add to the database pressure without actually providing anything directly relevant to the game.

Syldras · July 19

Tandor wrote: »

Also, there's supposed to be an issue with shortage of database space which was stated to be why we had account-wide achievements forced on us in the way that they were, so it doesn't make sense for non-core features to be implemented that simply add to the database pressure without actually providing anything directly relevant to the game.

They changed achievements to account-wide before introducing ToT, by the way.

spartaxoxo · July 19

Tandor wrote: »

cozmic72 wrote: »

If I want to play card games I will play a card game outside of ESO. Don’t want developer resources wasted on this type of stuff.

Also, there's supposed to be an issue with shortage of database space which was stated to be why we had account-wide achievements forced on us in the way that they were, so it doesn't make sense for non-core features to be implemented that simply add to the database pressure without actually providing anything directly relevant to the game.

World building is directly relevant to the game.

spartaxoxo · July 19

It would be fun to get some more mini games. These should be moreso Q3 things than chapter features now that the pandemic is over. But I still would like to see more added. It could help add new things to do in older zones. Imagine if we had a target practice or hunting mini game in the Wood Elf areas. Or perhaps a "cider" drinking contest in the Nord areas. Could be fun!

freespirit · July 19

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It would be fun to get some more mini games. These should be moreso Q3 things than chapter features now that the pandemic is over. But I still would like to see more added. It could help add new things to do in older zones. Imagine if we had a target practice or hunting mini game in the Wood Elf areas. Or perhaps a "cider" drinking contest in the Nord areas. Could be fun!

There were times in the Witcher series where Geralt became drunk during challenges/games and subsequently he had blurred vision and was difficult to control.....

Now imagine a drinking game that could be played in our houses, with similar effects and a player built Parkour course to attempt whilst your character is drunk!!

I could see that being a very fun evening!!

Although tbh having built a few similar courses I suspect my friends being drunk in RL has already given me more than a few fun evenings!!

Araneae6537 · July 19

Having playable versions of any of the various games found within the ESO world would have made a lot more sense than a deck building game, which I’m not sure makes sense in ESO to begin with, but certainly not somehow following all the player’s experiences, as I’ve posted before.

But I don’t think I would be interested in any mini game within ESO that took up a lot of time outside of the game world and characters — I play ESO to be in the world of ESO or the created domains of player housing.

Tandor · July 19

Syldras wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Also, there's supposed to be an issue with shortage of database space which was stated to be why we had account-wide achievements forced on us in the way that they were, so it doesn't make sense for non-core features to be implemented that simply add to the database pressure without actually providing anything directly relevant to the game.

They changed achievements to account-wide before introducing ToT, by the way.

Yes indeed, they claimed that the change was in order to accommodate new features in the database - and then wouldn't discuss it any further while they added ToT.

My point is that I'd rather they kept the core systems in the game as they are rather than change them without any discussion in order to accommodate new features that already exist outside of the game for those who want them.

spartaxoxo · July 19

Tandor wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Also, there's supposed to be an issue with shortage of database space which was stated to be why we had account-wide achievements forced on us in the way that they were, so it doesn't make sense for non-core features to be implemented that simply add to the database pressure without actually providing anything directly relevant to the game.

They changed achievements to account-wide before introducing ToT, by the way.

Yes indeed, they claimed that the change was in order to accommodate new features in the database - and then wouldn't discuss it any further while they added ToT.

My point is that I'd rather they kept the core systems in the game as they are rather than change them without any discussion in order to accommodate new features that already exist outside of the game for those who want them.

There was discussion. Players had been asking for mini games for immersion, world building, and as an activity they could do in towns, for a long time. It wasn't the most requested feature by any means. But it was something that had come up repeatedly over the years prior to Tales being added to the game.

Amottica · July 20

Danikat wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

EdjeSwift wrote: »

VouxeTheMinotaur wrote: »

though, i understand the negative response this may generate since gambling could cause problems. I imagine the crown store is already enough of a gamble for players and introducing a new type would be meh

This right here is the crux of the issue. There are legitimate jurisdictions/countries where this content could be inaccessible to part of the population.

Other card games with more creativity than the normal "gambling' games could be fun but most LCGs/CCGs/Deck Builder concepts are already out there and finding a new concept that wouldn't step on toes too much would be hard.

This is it, well, part of it. There is a legal issue concerning gambling, and crates are not defined as gambling in many markets.

The other issue is the game's rating. In the USA, ESO is rated 17+, which is not an adult rating. As such, the game's rating would not permit activities that require the participants to be adults.

There may be places where that would be a problem but in the USA and Europe a game is only classified as gambling if you can actually win and lose real money. As long as you can't bet real-life cash on the virtual games it's at most 'simulated gambling' which gets a much lower rating.

For example there's a game called Super Blackjack Battle 2 which is entirely about playing Blackjack at tables in a casino (because you've been invited to a tournment run by a crime lord). It's rated Teen by the ESRB and 12+ by PEGI.

(There's also numerous poker games with similar ratings.)

Well, playing games that have no financial consequences is not gambling, so I'm not sure what the issue is. Playing Black Jack or Texas Hold'em is not gambling in and of itself.

However, the OP mentions gambling, which is where my comments are applicable.

SeaGtGruff · July 20

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Also, there's supposed to be an issue with shortage of database space which was stated to be why we had account-wide achievements forced on us in the way that they were, so it doesn't make sense for non-core features to be implemented that simply add to the database pressure without actually providing anything directly relevant to the game.

They changed achievements to account-wide before introducing ToT, by the way.

Yes indeed, they claimed that the change was in order to accommodate new features in the database - and then wouldn't discuss it any further while they added ToT.

My point is that I'd rather they kept the core systems in the game as they are rather than change them without any discussion in order to accommodate new features that already exist outside of the game for those who want them.

There was discussion. Players had been asking for mini games for immersion, world building, and as an activity they could do in towns, for a long time. It wasn't the most requested feature by any means. But it was something that had come up repeatedly over the years prior to Tales being added to the game.

... especially after Bethesda/Sparkypants announced that there would be no new development of TES:Legends, and fans of that game began asking for ZOS to somehow incorporate Legends into ESO.

I honestly didn't expect to enjoy ToT when it was first announced, but I gave it a try and now I love it so much that it's one of my daily must-do activities in the game. And it certainly doesn't stop me from engaging in overland PvE questing, occasional dungeons or Infinite Archive runs, and occasional PvP in Cyrodiil; those activities still make up the bulk of my daily playtime.

Warhawke_80 · July 20

ToT imo is a obtuse snore fest...especially considering how superior Legends was...but even if some legal snafu prevented them from using legends they could have given us a fast paced fun card game with a simple to learn/hard to master ruleset.

Instead of the boring game we got.

Just sayin.

katanagirl1 · July 20

ToT was supposed to answer the request for something to do in taverns by people here on the forums (I think) but it only does that if you are in the non-competitive mode. I am surprised that I have not seen anyone comment on that particularly.

Otherwise, if you queue up for competitive play you are completely removed from the game.

I don’t know if we want more card games and especially not real world card games. Typical drinking games and something like darts would be less anachronistic.

Roztlin45 · July 20

Card games in an action mmo = wasteful. Console or PC uses 350 to 450+ watts of power to run ESO. A phone or tablet is less than 10 watts. You can not run ESO on a low power device but that is where that card game belongs.

Araneae6537 · July 20

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Also, there's supposed to be an issue with shortage of database space which was stated to be why we had account-wide achievements forced on us in the way that they were, so it doesn't make sense for non-core features to be implemented that simply add to the database pressure without actually providing anything directly relevant to the game.

They changed achievements to account-wide before introducing ToT, by the way.

Yes indeed, they claimed that the change was in order to accommodate new features in the database - and then wouldn't discuss it any further while they added ToT.

My point is that I'd rather they kept the core systems in the game as they are rather than change them without any discussion in order to accommodate new features that already exist outside of the game for those who want them.

There was discussion. Players had been asking for mini games for immersion, world building, and as an activity they could do in towns, for a long time. It wasn't the most requested feature by any means. But it was something that had come up repeatedly over the years prior to Tales being added to the game.

I confess this inspires me to argue against the addition of things I don’t like the idea of to the game. I never thought Legends or whatever it was should be shoehorned into ESO, but now there’s ToT, and worse, I lost character achievements over it (I was never against having accountwide achievements but how it was implemented and losing aspects of individual character tracking). It’s a zero sum game.

spartaxoxo · July 20

Araneae6537 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Also, there's supposed to be an issue with shortage of database space which was stated to be why we had account-wide achievements forced on us in the way that they were, so it doesn't make sense for non-core features to be implemented that simply add to the database pressure without actually providing anything directly relevant to the game.

They changed achievements to account-wide before introducing ToT, by the way.

Yes indeed, they claimed that the change was in order to accommodate new features in the database - and then wouldn't discuss it any further while they added ToT.

My point is that I'd rather they kept the core systems in the game as they are rather than change them without any discussion in order to accommodate new features that already exist outside of the game for those who want them.

There was discussion. Players had been asking for mini games for immersion, world building, and as an activity they could do in towns, for a long time. It wasn't the most requested feature by any means. But it was something that had come up repeatedly over the years prior to Tales being added to the game.

I confess this inspires me to argue against the addition of things I don’t like the idea of to the game. I never thought Legends or whatever it was should be shoehorned into ESO, but now there’s ToT, and worse, I lost character achievements over it (I was never against having accountwide achievements but how it was implemented and losing aspects of individual character tracking). It’s a zero sum game.

From what I could glean based off various interviews over the years (and I could be wrong or misremembering something), they were focused on non-combat things they could add to the game at one point. Because they were focused on performance issues with the server and server re-architecture and didn't want to add anything that would affect Cyrodiil at the time. This got delayed greatly because of the pandemic, which is also why they focused on smaller, non-combat things (outside of gear) hence Tales and Antiquities.

And then later they took on the enormous work for the Arcanists and Infinite Archive.

So, Tales was seen as a thing they could do that would give the chapter a new feature that wasn't going to be combat oriented. And they could focus their main efforts on the more important tasks of the servers, new class, and archive.

But that's just the personal impression I got based off various streams and interviews, and since it was drip fed through the years, I could be 1000% wrong.

So, I wouldn't really worry too much about something like Tales getting repeated. It just came across more like they saw an opportunity to do a nice smaller, world building request moreso than a main goal. That's my impression of it.