Change the dungeon equipment grind

Theignson · July 9

Currently , even with the beneficial curation of sets, ONLY the final boss in a dungeon drops weapons/jewelry.

Moreover, usually only one set per dungeon is decent.

So after ~4-5 runs, you already have all the armor. However this leaves ~45 more runs to get all the weapons/jewelry. since only the last boss (and chests) drop them

45 runs where you waste your time killing the first bosses and all the trash with the sole purpose of getting to the final boss for a small chance of getting the weapon you need from the set you need.

This is misery.

Please change to make all bosses drop all items

Yes, I do recall the non curated days. I recall the impossibility of getting burning spellweave inferno staff. So, it is better now,

But in a ten year old game we should not have to waste our time running through entire dungeons to get to the last boss and have a 1/45 chance of getting what we need

El_Borracho · July 9

I would prefer this, and aside from the obvious motive to keep players playing the game, I have to assume another reason is to prevent players from dropping out of dungeons and leaving groups stranded. The best example was when Sunspire originally came out, the chests dropped perfected gear so players could fight or even bypass Lokke, then farm out all the chests in the area before Yolna and quit without completing the trial. I understand its a trial vs. dungeons, but don't think they want that kind of behavior in either.

Runefang · July 9

I like it the way it is personally, it’s enough of a grind to keep me engaged but not too much to be a bad thing.

Then again I played back when transmuting wasn’t a thing so you had to farm the weapon you wanted in the trait you wanted.

Necrotech_Master · July 9

can always have the chance of getting the weapons from chests, though it was kind of nice if those were curated (like the brief bug they had in graven deep and earthen root enclave when those released and the chests were curated lol)

there is also trading as well with the people your running with

its still far far better than before between the collection + curation than it was in the earlier days lol

manukartofanu · July 9

El_Borracho wrote: »

I would prefer this, and aside from the obvious motive to keep players playing the game, I have to assume another reason is to prevent players from dropping out of dungeons and leaving groups stranded. The best example was when Sunspire originally came out, the chests dropped perfected gear so players could fight or even bypass Lokke, then farm out all the chests in the area before Yolna and quit without completing the trial. I understand its a trial vs. dungeons, but don't think they want that kind of behavior in either.

This would be the worst possible change. Solo queue will die very quickly after that. There are already AFK players, whom you can at least kick now. Or just leave when people take on too much, trying for hours to complete content that is beyond their capabilities. There are also situations when you get two disconnects right away, and people don't come back. Currently, this problem is solved by leaving the group, even with a penalty. In your case, it would just mean being stuck in the dungeon forever.

Araneae6537 · July 9

I agree with @Runefang and @Necrotech_Master
It’s enough that you’re guaranteed to eventually get what you’re looking for with item set curation, and with luck or the help of others, you can may get it much sooner.

LordGavus · July 9

I don't mind the way it is. With curation and transmutation is not that bad.
Plus when you farm with a guild or friend group you get what you need fairly quick. Sharing weapon drops really speeds up the farming time

CGPsaint · July 10

Your best bet is to run with friends/guildmates so that you can swap gear around to make sure that you're all able to fill your stickerbooks efficiently. Always search for treasure chests (on Vet they are always intermediate or higher) and bind any weapons/jewelry you get before starting the final boss fight.

Soarora · July 10

There is a small chance that trash enemies will drop weapons I believe, so be sure to loot. Maybe that chance should be increased.

Metafae · July 10

I like it how it is right now for the same reasons mentioned above.

However, it would be ok if they maybe allowed a small chance that the other bosses could drop weapons/jewelry as an additional drop to maybe make it a little better, cut it from 45 runs to complete everything to like 40 runs.

kargen27 · July 10

As an alternative how about final boss drops one weapon or piece of jewelry when he dies and if you killed every other boss in the dungeon there is a chance for a 2nd weapon drop?
If all bosses could drop weapons there would be players that just farm first boss or two then restart.

Edit to add I also think you should not get the daily reward if you don't kill everything.

spartaxoxo · July 10

The way it is now still encourages groups to be made.

Necrotech_Master · July 10

Soarora wrote: »

There is a small chance that trash enemies will drop weapons I believe, so be sure to loot. Maybe that chance should be increased.

its fairly low, and those drops are also uncurated

but extra drops is still extra drops when you get them lol

Araneae6537 · July 10

Metafae wrote: »

I like it how it is right now for the same reasons mentioned above.

However, it would be ok if they maybe allowed a small chance that the other bosses could drop weapons/jewelry as an additional drop to maybe make it a little better, cut it from 45 runs to complete everything to like 40 runs.

There’s already a chance of getting weapons or jewelry from chests, if you stop to loot them.

El_Borracho · July 10

manukartofanu wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

I would prefer this, and aside from the obvious motive to keep players playing the game, I have to assume another reason is to prevent players from dropping out of dungeons and leaving groups stranded. The best example was when Sunspire originally came out, the chests dropped perfected gear so players could fight or even bypass Lokke, then farm out all the chests in the area before Yolna and quit without completing the trial. I understand its a trial vs. dungeons, but don't think they want that kind of behavior in either.

This would be the worst possible change. Solo queue will die very quickly after that. There are already AFK players, whom you can at least kick now. Or just leave when people take on too much, trying for hours to complete content that is beyond their capabilities. There are also situations when you get two disconnects right away, and people don't come back. Currently, this problem is solved by leaving the group, even with a penalty. In your case, it would just mean being stuck in the dungeon forever.

Yeah, I think we're on the same side of this. If you made all bosses drop weapons, I think most dungeon runs would never be finished. When I said I would prefer this, it was simply from a selfish standpoint, but making this change would wreck dungeons

Theignson · July 10

[Snip]

Seriously, what I'm suggesting would not eliminate dungeon runs. It would just reduce the number of runs you need from ~ 50-55 to 20-25.

25 runs of a dungeon is non trivial. I can only stand to do one a day when trying to get new weapons/jewelry from new sets. That works out to as much as 10 weeks of 5 runs per week in the current set up.

It is absurd and excessive.

Again, I agree it used to be worse, but that's no excuse.

And , I agree, make chests curated. And make them drop something each time!

[Edited for baiting]

valenwood_vegan · July 10

El_Borracho wrote: »

Yeah, I think we're on the same side of this. If you made all bosses drop weapons, I think most dungeon runs would never be finished. When I said I would prefer this, it was simply from a selfish standpoint, but making this change would wreck dungeons

Agree, I'd absolutely just keep repeating the first boss over and over again to fill out my stickerbook from dungeons that I can't completely solo. I doubt I'd be the only one. I think they need to maintain an incentive to actually finish the dungeon.

Theignson · July 11

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Yeah, I think we're on the same side of this. If you made all bosses drop weapons, I think most dungeon runs would never be finished. When I said I would prefer this, it was simply from a selfish standpoint, but making this change would wreck dungeons

Agree, I'd absolutely just keep repeating the first boss over and over again to fill out my stickerbook from dungeons that I can't completely solo. I doubt I'd be the only one. I think they need to maintain an incentive to actually finish the dungeon.

If you only did the fist boss, you'd be right back to where we are now. You'd have to do ~ 65 runs to get all the gear (more than now because now, you quickly get all the armor (ie body pieces which currently drop off the first 2 bosses)whereas you would only get 1 piece a day)

Amottica · July 11

Theignson wrote: »

Currently , even with the beneficial curation of sets, ONLY the final boss in a dungeon drops weapons/jewelry.

They can be obtained from any chest in the dungeon.

Further, the grind is trivial compared to what it used to be. Zenimax added the means to change the trait, trade gear amongst those in the group (so best to run with friends/guild) the sticker book, and the means to recreate gear.

All of that significantly decreased our grind time. That does not mean we get gear instantly but making it any easier would make ti seem as though it was instant.

El_Borracho wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

I would prefer this, and aside from the obvious motive to keep players playing the game, I have to assume another reason is to prevent players from dropping out of dungeons and leaving groups stranded. The best example was when Sunspire originally came out, the chests dropped perfected gear so players could fight or even bypass Lokke, then farm out all the chests in the area before Yolna and quit without completing the trial. I understand its a trial vs. dungeons, but don't think they want that kind of behavior in either.

This would be the worst possible change. Solo queue will die very quickly after that. There are already AFK players, whom you can at least kick now. Or just leave when people take on too much, trying for hours to complete content that is beyond their capabilities. There are also situations when you get two disconnects right away, and people don't come back. Currently, this problem is solved by leaving the group, even with a penalty. In your case, it would just mean being stuck in the dungeon forever.

Yeah, I think we're on the same side of this. If you made all bosses drop weapons, I think most dungeon runs would never be finished. When I said I would prefer this, it was simply from a selfish standpoint, but making this change would wreck dungeons

This brings up a very valid point proven true in ESO. I understand the first boss in vHel Ra Citadel used to drop weapons. People would form up, fight that boss, break up the group and reform.

@El_Borracho Thanks for bringing this viewpoint up.

EdjeSwift · July 11

Theignson wrote: »

If you only did the fist boss, you'd be right back to where we are now. You'd have to do ~ 65 runs to get all the gear (more than now because now, you quickly get all the armor (ie body pieces which currently drop off the first 2 bosses)whereas you would only get 1 piece a day)

This argument fails to take into account time, just number of runs. Let's use Oathsworn Pit as an example. The first boss takes less than 7 minutes, with a competent group, to get to and clear on normal. You can repeat that cycle much faster than clearing the other 2 bosses on top on the first boss. Or let's go base game with Crypt of Hearts, you can literally skip the first room completely and stay in aggro and bumrush that first boss in the pit and repeat rather than clear the 3 required bosses.

VisitHammerfell · July 11

How about just have the final boss drop 2 curated items? I've been playing almost 3 years and some dungeons I'm still missing quite a bit in, can't be bothered. It doesn't encourage me to solo queue or form groups. It makes me want to play other games. Same thing with transmute grinfd, it's all burning me out

El_Borracho · July 11

Theignson wrote: »

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Yeah, I think we're on the same side of this. If you made all bosses drop weapons, I think most dungeon runs would never be finished. When I said I would prefer this, it was simply from a selfish standpoint, but making this change would wreck dungeons

Agree, I'd absolutely just keep repeating the first boss over and over again to fill out my stickerbook from dungeons that I can't completely solo. I doubt I'd be the only one. I think they need to maintain an incentive to actually finish the dungeon.

If you only did the fist boss, you'd be right back to where we are now. You'd have to do ~ 65 runs to get all the gear (more than now because now, you quickly get all the armor (ie body pieces which currently drop off the first 2 bosses)whereas you would only get 1 piece a day)

Or... Falkreath Hold. Do you think anyone farming Nirn daggers would go past the mammoth boss in Falkreath if you did this? There are 2 bosses you can beat within 5 minutes of entering the dungeon. Why would anyone stick around for the more difficult last 3 when you can rinse and repeat on the first 2?

Most DLC dungeons fit this mold. Farming Z'ens out of Maarselok is another example as you can employ the "one person run to the boss and pull the group in" tactic for the first 2 bosses there and you could skip the eternal slog to the end.

SeaUnicorn · July 11

As much as I hate mind numbing grind I also see why it was made the way it is.
Although I think it does not make sense that last boss drops weapons and jewelry. Should be just weapons. Jewelry should be dropping from the bosses that drop armor. That would make it more balanced.
Good solution for all of that would be also to introduce chest rooms similar to ICP and WGT, just allow people to try roll for extra items when they ran enough of the dungeon and collected some currency.

Theignson · July 11

Many of the posters are concerned that if you changed it, people would just farm the first boss.

I'm concerned about the mind numbing , time and life wasting tedium of having to kill the first two bosses and all the trash for "nothing"-- just to get to the last boss and get a "small" (1/45 and improving over time) chance of getting what you need.

If they would make jewelry drop off the earlier boss, and make chests curated,

that would be an improvement that I would love

MEBengalsFan2001 · July 11

100% agree with this.

Araneae6537 · July 11

Or we could not bother with dungeons at all and have the gear arrive in our mailbox.

Kappachi · July 11

Theignson wrote: »

Currently , even with the beneficial curation of sets, ONLY the final boss in a dungeon drops weapons/jewelry.

Moreover, usually only one set per dungeon is decent.

So after ~4-5 runs, you already have all the armor. However this leaves ~45 more runs to get all the weapons/jewelry. since only the last boss (and chests) drop them

45 runs where you waste your time killing the first bosses and all the trash with the sole purpose of getting to the final boss for a small chance of getting the weapon you need from the set you need.

This is misery.

Please change to make all bosses drop all items

Yes, I do recall the non curated days. I recall the impossibility of getting burning spellweave inferno staff. So, it is better now,

But in a ten year old game we should not have to waste our time running through entire dungeons to get to the last boss and have a 1/45 chance of getting what we need

This obviously gives you the motivation to look for treasure chests, yes? If it wasn't for this treasure chests would be skipped by all groups and people would be told to hurry up when spending time looting chests/etc. Master your excavation and get the 30 meter chest detection.

kargen27 · July 11

Theignson wrote: »

Many of the posters are concerned that if you changed it, people would just farm the first boss.

I'm concerned about the mind numbing , time and life wasting tedium of having to kill the first two bosses and all the trash for "nothing"-- just to get to the last boss and get a "small" (1/45 and improving over time) chance of getting what you need.

If they would make jewelry drop off the earlier boss, and make chests curated,
that would be an improvement that I would love

That is on you for turning it into a grind instead of a game to enjoy.

Theignson · July 11

kargen27 wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Many of the posters are concerned that if you changed it, people would just farm the first boss.

I'm concerned about the mind numbing , time and life wasting tedium of having to kill the first two bosses and all the trash for "nothing"-- just to get to the last boss and get a "small" (1/45 and improving over time) chance of getting what you need.

If they would make jewelry drop off the earlier boss, and make chests curated,
that would be an improvement that I would love

That is on you for turning it into a grind instead of a game to enjoy.

If you enjoy running through the same dungeon 50 times and never getting anything new from 90% of the dungeon, more power to you!
In my time in ESO I've run all the dungeons, main tanked veteran trials (which I ended up hating), DPSed trials, and spent something close to 10,000 hours in PvP. I like PvP the most since every battle is a little different. But some people prefer repeating things that are exactly the same, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Kappachi · July 11

Theignson wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

Many of the posters are concerned that if you changed it, people would just farm the first boss.

I'm concerned about the mind numbing , time and life wasting tedium of having to kill the first two bosses and all the trash for "nothing"-- just to get to the last boss and get a "small" (1/45 and improving over time) chance of getting what you need.

If they would make jewelry drop off the earlier boss, and make chests curated,
that would be an improvement that I would love

That is on you for turning it into a grind instead of a game to enjoy.

If you enjoy running through the same dungeon 50 times and never getting anything new from 90% of the dungeon, more power to you!
In my time in ESO I've run all the dungeons, main tanked veteran trials (which I ended up hating), DPSed trials, and spent something close to 10,000 hours in PvP. I like PvP the most since every battle is a little different. But some people prefer repeating things that are exactly the same, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Do it over time instead of all at once. All my complete sets come from running random veteran dungeons, and the only dungeon I haven't really rolled enough to get all the stuff in is bal sunnar, but I'm in no hurry. there needs to be reasons to keep visiting the dungeons and keeping the random queues interesting, if you could farm things easily then random queues/specific queue for niche dungeons becomes much harder.

Lapin_Logic · July 11

Theignson wrote: »

Currently , even with the beneficial curation of sets, ONLY the final boss in a dungeon drops weapons/jewelry.

Moreover, usually only one set per dungeon is decent.

So after ~4-5 runs, you already have all the armor. However this leaves ~45 more runs to get all the weapons/jewelry. since only the last boss (and chests) drop them

45 runs where you waste your time killing the first bosses and all the trash with the sole purpose of getting to the final boss for a small chance of getting the weapon you need from the set you need.

This is misery.

Please change to make all bosses drop all items

Yes, I do recall the non curated days. I recall the impossibility of getting burning spellweave inferno staff. So, it is better now,

But in a ten year old game we should not have to waste our time running through entire dungeons to get to the last boss and have a 1/45 chance of getting what we need

Not only this but the sheer size of the ever increasing list of content and items we have to farm is insane, and if you run with a permanent partner then it is not only you that needs to farm but you also need to help your partner farm if you did manage to RNG the drop you needed early, slap on top of this the RNG of Mythics (Velothi Ur mage amulet "Scrivener’s Hall Dungeon Trophy Room Chests" lead) and it becomes a torture rather than a thrill of new items.