Abyssal Impact changes

Metafae

I use a magicka build for my Arcanist, however, I will continue to use the stamina morph of this skill for one reason, it generates crux.

While they are trying to make the magicka morph more appealing with this update, I will simply not use it if it continues to consume crux.

By having the magicka morph consume crux, it competes with Fatecarver and I already have it competing with Runespite Ward, when it is needed.

It doesn't make sense to use another skill that consumes crux when it can take up to 3 GCD's to generate 3 crux.

If the magicka morph generated crux, I would likely use it regardless of its other effects.

LittlePinkDot

Metafae wrote: »

I use a magicka build for my Arcanist, however, I will continue to use the stamina morph of this skill for one reason, it generates crux.

While they are trying to make the magicka morph more appealing with this update, I will simply not use it if it continues to consume crux.

By having the magicka morph consume crux, it competes with Fatecarver and I already have it competing with Runespite Ward, when it is needed.

It doesn't make sense to use another skill that consumes crux when it can take up to 3 GCD's to generate 3 crux.

If the magicka morph generated crux, I would likely use it regardless of its other effects.

Just use the new scribing class signature script that creates a crux. You can use a scribed skill to create crux now.

CP5

It isn't so much the crux generating part. It's the fact that, if I'm going to spend crux, it'll be for beam, or as Metafae said, Ward. Abyssal Impact isn't competing with Flail as much as it's competing with beam, and since flail also applies the ink debuff, even the scribed skills won't easily replace it. Abyssal Impact needs something to put it on par with beam, but if they did that then the class would have two very heavily loaded skills, and likely redundancy.

notyuu

I use the mag morph (when I play my arcainist) due to the simple fact that having the unique debuff hentai blast applies gets increased in power to 11% at 3 crux

Metafae

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I use a magicka build for my Arcanist, however, I will continue to use the stamina morph of this skill for one reason, it generates crux.

While they are trying to make the magicka morph more appealing with this update, I will simply not use it if it continues to consume crux.

By having the magicka morph consume crux, it competes with Fatecarver and I already have it competing with Runespite Ward, when it is needed.

It doesn't make sense to use another skill that consumes crux when it can take up to 3 GCD's to generate 3 crux.

If the magicka morph generated crux, I would likely use it regardless of its other effects.

Just use the new scribing class signature script that creates a crux. You can use a scribed skill to create crux now.

I have completed the scribing skills, none of them are useful, maybe in solo play for 'fun' but if I'm being serious, they don't grace my bar at all.

Metafae

CP5 wrote: »

It isn't so much the crux generating part. It's the fact that, if I'm going to spend crux, it'll be for beam, or as Metafae said, Ward. Abyssal Impact isn't competing with Flail as much as it's competing with beam, and since flail also applies the ink debuff, even the scribed skills won't easily replace it. Abyssal Impact needs something to put it on par with beam, but if they did that then the class would have two very heavily loaded skills, and likely redundancy.

You make a great point.

Even if the magicka morph didn't generate crux, but also didn't consume it, I would be more inclined to use it.

It really comes down to the fact that the crux is for the beam, not for another DPS skill.

Having the magicka morph generate crux would just make it significantly more appealing to easily fit into my rotation.

Metafae

notyuu wrote: »

I use the mag morph (when I play my arcainist) due to the simple fact that having the unique debuff hentai blast applies gets increased in power to 11% at 3 crux

That is also a great view point.

I would like to use that unique 11% damage boost, but not at the cost of my crux.

It would probably be really good if they allowed this to stay but didn't consume the crux to do it, even if this meant losing the overall boost to the skills damage per spent crux, no crux generation needed.

[Edited to remove double quote]

xDeusEJRx

I'll reiterate a point I mentioned in the feedback thread.

The issue arcanist has would not exist if ZOS didn't try to shackle Arcanist's primary source of crux generation to Runeblades. They tried super hard to push runeblades as their spammable since the first showcase, despite it being underwhelming.

The passives basically force you to want to use it because the passives and skills all center around Crux consumption. Scribing helps a little bit but they still ultimately need to create tons of cruxes.

What I personally think they should change:

I think they need to unshackle Arcanist from using runeblades and allow any status effects to generate a Crux to use. There's a lot of passives around status effect damage and chance, it's clear that's a major strength of the class, they should just play fully into that. However they should probably limit it to 1 crux per status effect considering there's multiple skills that have more than 1 status effect on them, in order to make it so you don't instantly get 3 cruxes.
The new arcanist class set from Archive also applies random status effects, that further backs up the identity of status effects for damage.

In order to make Runeblades more lucrative, just allow RB to generate 2 cruxes as opposed to 1, then it can still be a major crux generator skill without being the ONLY way besides flail in class to get cruxes. Also I would like the damage getting buffed too if possible.

Those would be my personal changes if I had any say

LittlePinkDot

Metafae wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I use a magicka build for my Arcanist, however, I will continue to use the stamina morph of this skill for one reason, it generates crux.

While they are trying to make the magicka morph more appealing with this update, I will simply not use it if it continues to consume crux.

By having the magicka morph consume crux, it competes with Fatecarver and I already have it competing with Runespite Ward, when it is needed.

It doesn't make sense to use another skill that consumes crux when it can take up to 3 GCD's to generate 3 crux.

If the magicka morph generated crux, I would likely use it regardless of its other effects.

Just use the new scribing class signature script that creates a crux. You can use a scribed skill to create crux now.

I have completed the scribing skills, none of them are useful, maybe in solo play for 'fun' but if I'm being serious, they don't grace my bar at all.

What is your arcanists role?

For my PvP bowcanist I'm pretty excited about scribing.

Metafae

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

I'll reiterate a point I mentioned in the feedback thread.

The issue arcanist has would not exist if ZOS didn't try to shackle Arcanist's primary source of crux generation to Runeblades. They tried super hard to push runeblades as their spammable since the first showcase, despite it being underwhelming.

The passives basically force you to want to use it because the passives and skills all center around Crux consumption. Scribing helps a little bit but they still ultimately need to create tons of cruxes.

What I personally think they should change:

I think they need to unshackle Arcanist from using runeblades and allow any status effects to generate a Crux to use. There's a lot of passives around status effect damage and chance, it's clear that's a major strength of the class, they should just play fully into that. However they should probably limit it to 1 crux per status effect considering there's multiple skills that have more than 1 status effect on them, in order to make it so you don't instantly get 3 cruxes.
The new arcanist class set from Archive also applies random status effects, that further backs up the identity of status effects for damage.

In order to make Runeblades more lucrative, just allow RB to generate 2 cruxes as opposed to 1, then it can still be a major crux generator skill without being the ONLY way besides flail in class to get cruxes. Also I would like the damage getting buffed too if possible.

Those would be my personal changes if I had any say

I feel that this would just result in forcing Arcanists to play with sets that drive the status effect chance right up.

I see what you're saying, and they are great ideas, but I don't find the generation of crux to be too difficult as it is, which is why I was willing to use a variant of Tentacular Dread which simply didn't consume or generate crux at all.

I am a weird one in that I tend to build my characters without looking and guides to really feel the results myself and go from that. It's why a lot of people are asking me for my build in-game as they see my doing better than their meta builds, but this is because I rejected the meta and found a better way to do it on my own.

Specifically, I use the Crux Weaver Armour, even in group content, because it will passively generate crux.

Recuperative Treatise also has a passive crux generation ability but only when you have none, so it's not as reliable.

But with these abilities being active, and then rooting enemies with Cephaliarcs Flail, I'm often already back to 2-3 crux without the need to cast Runeblades. It's nice to use Runeblades specifically for the range it provides and crux generation to fill the gap. It's certainly better than the scribing skills in terms of damage output.

xDeusEJRx

Metafae wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

I'll reiterate a point I mentioned in the feedback thread.

The issue arcanist has would not exist if ZOS didn't try to shackle Arcanist's primary source of crux generation to Runeblades. They tried super hard to push runeblades as their spammable since the first showcase, despite it being underwhelming.

The passives basically force you to want to use it because the passives and skills all center around Crux consumption. Scribing helps a little bit but they still ultimately need to create tons of cruxes.

What I personally think they should change:

I think they need to unshackle Arcanist from using runeblades and allow any status effects to generate a Crux to use. There's a lot of passives around status effect damage and chance, it's clear that's a major strength of the class, they should just play fully into that. However they should probably limit it to 1 crux per status effect considering there's multiple skills that have more than 1 status effect on them, in order to make it so you don't instantly get 3 cruxes.
The new arcanist class set from Archive also applies random status effects, that further backs up the identity of status effects for damage.

In order to make Runeblades more lucrative, just allow RB to generate 2 cruxes as opposed to 1, then it can still be a major crux generator skill without being the ONLY way besides flail in class to get cruxes. Also I would like the damage getting buffed too if possible.

Those would be my personal changes if I had any say

I feel that this would just result in forcing Arcanists to play with sets that drive the status effect chance right up.

While I can understand that line of thinking, Arcanists could alternatively just use Charged trait as well as it increase status effect chance by a pretty decent margin, so you could also just run charged in off hand to play into that idea I mentioned, if you don't want to have to use a status effect set

Metafae

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

I'll reiterate a point I mentioned in the feedback thread.

The issue arcanist has would not exist if ZOS didn't try to shackle Arcanist's primary source of crux generation to Runeblades. They tried super hard to push runeblades as their spammable since the first showcase, despite it being underwhelming.

The passives basically force you to want to use it because the passives and skills all center around Crux consumption. Scribing helps a little bit but they still ultimately need to create tons of cruxes.

What I personally think they should change:

I think they need to unshackle Arcanist from using runeblades and allow any status effects to generate a Crux to use. There's a lot of passives around status effect damage and chance, it's clear that's a major strength of the class, they should just play fully into that. However they should probably limit it to 1 crux per status effect considering there's multiple skills that have more than 1 status effect on them, in order to make it so you don't instantly get 3 cruxes.
The new arcanist class set from Archive also applies random status effects, that further backs up the identity of status effects for damage.

In order to make Runeblades more lucrative, just allow RB to generate 2 cruxes as opposed to 1, then it can still be a major crux generator skill without being the ONLY way besides flail in class to get cruxes. Also I would like the damage getting buffed too if possible.

Those would be my personal changes if I had any say

I feel that this would just result in forcing Arcanists to play with sets that drive the status effect chance right up.

While I can understand that line of thinking, Arcanists could alternatively just use Charged trait as well as it increase status effect chance by a pretty decent margin, so you could also just run charged in off hand to play into that idea I mentioned, if you don't want to have to use a status effect set

That would work quite well for sure, but I'd be sad to have to swap out my infused weapon damage enchant on the back bar.

RaptorRodeoGod

They could give Tentacular Dread another damage buff under the condition that Fatecarver is not slotted on either bar? To act as an alternative damage method perhaps?

I also don't get why they have an immobilize as part of this skill, it'd make more sense to have that effect in the tanking skill link

Marto

It's nice to have options. You don't have to spend Crux only on Fatecarver.

A rotation without Fatecarver, utilizing Runeblades and Tentacular Dread, is not meta. But it's perfectly viable in most content.

Or you can use all three. Runeblades to build crux, Tentacular Dread to debuff, Runeblades again, then Fatecarver.

The whole point of the Crux system and the way crux-generators and crux-consumers are designed is to allow you for more options on how to setup your rotation. I don't want Arcanist (or any class) to be forced to use the "correct" morph or the "incorrect" morph.

Joy_Division

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I use a magicka build for my Arcanist, however, I will continue to use the stamina morph of this skill for one reason, it generates crux.

While they are trying to make the magicka morph more appealing with this update, I will simply not use it if it continues to consume crux.

By having the magicka morph consume crux, it competes with Fatecarver and I already have it competing with Runespite Ward, when it is needed.

It doesn't make sense to use another skill that consumes crux when it can take up to 3 GCD's to generate 3 crux.

If the magicka morph generated crux, I would likely use it regardless of its other effects.

Just use the new scribing class signature script that creates a crux. You can use a scribed skill to create crux now.

We can, but it's a weak signature aspect. All the other classes will get something above and beyond what the scribed skill is giving them, meanwhile Arcanists are stuck putting on Crux just to make sure their class functions properly. Also, if I am playing an Arcanist, I actually want to use the Arcanist skills.

The OP is right. Cephaliarch's Flail is used not because it's more powerful than the other morph. It's used because it generates crux whereas Tentacular Dread consumes it. As long as Beam is the signature move for the class, which Zos's Developer note basically admitted, that is how Arcanists will use Crux.

NuarBlack

Tentacular dread is the burst crux spender. They need to make sure it feels that way. It needs to be on par with crystal frags and whip. Also need a generator that applies ink so it's there for Tentacular dread.

boi_anachronism_

If im being honest i thought it was a bit heavy handed to nerf two aspects of the skill. One i can see however im not super keen on the healing thing since the class itself has no burst heal that doesnt require you to either take damage (runeward) or could hit anyone in your group that has lower health before you. As far as scribing skills they are all too expensive to use as a spammable atm anyway. I also never love the Idea of a class having to swap out their class skill for a weapon skill to be able to maintain the most widely used play style. Just my 2 cents.

Lalothen

Dread is a good crux-consuming ability for Arcanists who don't want to spend all their time laserbeaming stuff to death, and as such it should remain a crux-consumer. Not everything needs to be designed around fatecarver.

xylena_lazarow

Flail is dead in PvP without the execute scaling, just use Whirling Blades. The heal and root were never necessary, delete those instead. The decay of class identity has already come for Arcanist, barely a year into its existence.

pklemming

Why is balancing so poor? They continue to modify a class, even though it is going to annoy players. Flail was fine. If you want us to use the other morph maybe understand why we don't use it, then fix that, rather than, YET AGAIN, applying a nerf. This was not done to address the execute scaling, because that is a pointless dps different; it was to stop us making use of the dual functionality of this skill heal, but they didn't want to put that as a sole change..

Flail healing is a thing, they change to this just made some trials significantly harder for arcanists. We still won't use the morph and you just annoyed a significant portion of the player base. Yes, I understand we still heal from hitting things, I was referring to us using it as a reliable stamina-based self heal.

I would not call this a win. It seems learning lessons is not a big thing at ZoS..People hate nerfs, especially pointless nerfs attempting to be hidden under a fallacy.

I will say now, this will not be received well. The fact you don't understand why we don't use the other morph is also mind-boggling.

Elyu

It's almost there, and incorporates some feedback from forums, but they need to go all in:

My suggestion: make it so there is a hard trade off between single target or cleave damage.

Either runeblades + tentacles for ST or flail + beam for Aoe.

(but also implement the "allow players to change morph" permanently at any time except in combat)

CameraBeardThePirate

NuarBlack wrote: »

Tentacular dread is the burst crux spender. They need to make sure it feels that way. It needs to be on par with crystal frags and whip. Also need a generator that applies ink so it's there for Tentacular dread.

It is on par with Frags and Whip (post buff).

The Crystal Frag proc has a base tooltip of 4121 (2483*1.66). Single target.

Whip with full Seething stacks has a base of 3716 (2123*1.6). Single target.

Tentacular with 3 crux will have a base tooltip of 3983 (2002*1.99), plus an additional 11% from the Ink debuff which means the base tooltip is essentially 4421 (3983*1.11). Thats a higher base tooltip than Blastbones, which is currently the strongest non-ultimate AoE tooltip in the game (3600). This damage is also AoE, immobilizes, and buffs all of your other damage by 11%.

Joy_Division

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Tentacular dread is the burst crux spender. They need to make sure it feels that way. It needs to be on par with crystal frags and whip. Also need a generator that applies ink so it's there for Tentacular dread.

It is on par with Frags and Whip (post buff).

The Crystal Frag proc has a base tooltip of 4121 (2483*1.66). Single target.

Whip with full Seething stacks has a base of 3716 (2123*1.6). Single target.

Tentacular with 3 crux will have a base tooltip of 3983 (2002*1.99), plus an additional 11% from the Ink debuff which means the base tooltip is essentially 4421 (3983*1.11). Thats a higher base tooltip than Blastbones, which is currently the strongest non-ultimate AoE tooltip in the game (3600). This damage is also AoE, immobilizes, and buffs all of your other damage by 11%.

Yes, Arcanists are going to use it for PvP now if they want damage. That's fine.

Except DKs and Sorcs don't have to slot a poor ability to set up these burst skills. And Arcanists are making this decision not because the two morphs both provide a viable means of damage, which is what ZOS wants, rather because of an unneeded nerf to the other morph, thus defeating their purpose of not having the power of one morph dictate the choice.

Had ZOS just left the other morph alone, they would have accomplished their goal.

xylena_lazarow

Joy_Division wrote: »

Yes, Arcanists are going to use it for PvP now if they want damage.

Like cool, now Arcs can choose between blowing their crux and missing the target with Fatecarver, or blowing their crux and missing the target with Tentacular. Just use Whirling Blades at that point. Hooray class identity.

boi_anachronism_

Just kind of one of those crappy things zos seems to like doing. This skill is over utilized so instead of giving it a slight nerf and a viable skill a slight buff they nerf the crap out of 1 and buff a skill that doesnt fit into the play style of the one they nerfed. They seriously need to stop doing this. Not dissimilar from what they did with the cro. Anyone who wants to use the standard cro rotation now has to go stam because they completely altered the mag version to work in a completely different play style. That annoyed me even more to be honest because that could have been solved by having the cost of blastbones scale from your highest resource but...

CameraBeardThePirate

Joy_Division wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Tentacular dread is the burst crux spender. They need to make sure it feels that way. It needs to be on par with crystal frags and whip. Also need a generator that applies ink so it's there for Tentacular dread.

It is on par with Frags and Whip (post buff).

The Crystal Frag proc has a base tooltip of 4121 (2483*1.66). Single target.

Whip with full Seething stacks has a base of 3716 (2123*1.6). Single target.

Tentacular with 3 crux will have a base tooltip of 3983 (2002*1.99), plus an additional 11% from the Ink debuff which means the base tooltip is essentially 4421 (3983*1.11). Thats a higher base tooltip than Blastbones, which is currently the strongest non-ultimate AoE tooltip in the game (3600). This damage is also AoE, immobilizes, and buffs all of your other damage by 11%.

Yes, Arcanists are going to use it for PvP now if they want damage. That's fine.

Except DKs and Sorcs don't have to slot a poor ability to set up these burst skills. And Arcanists are making this decision not because the two morphs both provide a viable means of damage, which is what ZOS wants, rather because of an unneeded nerf to the other morph, thus defeating their purpose of not having the power of one morph dictate the choice.

Had ZOS just left the other morph alone, they would have accomplished their goal.

Tbf, Runeblades isn't a "poor ability". It's actually rather strong as a spammable with an incredibly high tooltip (almost as high as Concealed Weapon, and scaling even more up to 9% or gaining extra crit chance while also being a ranged ability). It's just outclassed by Cephaliarch's, because Flail is ridiculously overloaded.

Also important to note that slotting Dread over Flail will increase your damage done with everything else by 6%, which is nothing to scoff at.

LittlePinkDot

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Flail is dead in PvP without the execute scaling, just use Whirling Blades. The heal and root were never necessary, delete those instead. The decay of class identity has already come for Arcanist, barely a year into its existence.

You should try poison injection for an execute.

Would be nice if they added execute scaling to the Crit morph of runeblades though.

LittlePinkDot

Joy_Division wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

Tentacular dread is the burst crux spender. They need to make sure it feels that way. It needs to be on par with crystal frags and whip. Also need a generator that applies ink so it's there for Tentacular dread.

It is on par with Frags and Whip (post buff).

The Crystal Frag proc has a base tooltip of 4121 (2483*1.66). Single target.

Whip with full Seething stacks has a base of 3716 (2123*1.6). Single target.

Tentacular with 3 crux will have a base tooltip of 3983 (2002*1.99), plus an additional 11% from the Ink debuff which means the base tooltip is essentially 4421 (3983*1.11). Thats a higher base tooltip than Blastbones, which is currently the strongest non-ultimate AoE tooltip in the game (3600). This damage is also AoE, immobilizes, and buffs all of your other damage by 11%.

Yes, Arcanists are going to use it for PvP now if they want damage. That's fine.

Except DKs and Sorcs don't have to slot a poor ability to set up these burst skills. And Arcanists are making this decision not because the two morphs both provide a viable means of damage, which is what ZOS wants, rather because of an unneeded nerf to the other morph, thus defeating their purpose of not having the power of one morph dictate the choice.

Had ZOS just left the other morph alone, they would have accomplished their goal.

You can use the class mastery script to create a skill that generates crux.

CameraBeardThePirate

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Flail is dead in PvP without the execute scaling, just use Whirling Blades. The heal and root were never necessary, delete those instead. The decay of class identity has already come for Arcanist, barely a year into its existence.

Flail is not dead in PvP lmao. It never needed execute scaling. It's still insanely overloaded.

Name another AoE spammable that applies a unique damage taken debuff, heals the user, and applies a soft CC. There isn't one. The only other AoE spammable that comes close to having that many effects is Scythe, and Flail does more damage, has a bigger range, and better effects.

Flail was insanely powerful, and still is very strong. The execute scaling was just the icing on the cake.

Necrotech_Master

my thoughts is that while its sad to lose the execute scaling, the thing that really mattered the most for me on this skill was:

• unique +dmg bonus for class skills
• self heal while dealing dmg
• crux builder
• occasionally the immobilize to keep npcs at bay
• and the whole skill being aoe

the execute was kind of like triple layered icing on the already icing heavy cake lol, i dont really see any reason to change any of my build for this

my biggest problem with the mag morph of the skill was that it consumed crux, so you would be forced to use runeblades as a crux builder (before scribing was a thing, now theres some more alternatives but those are still weaker than flail)

tsaescishoeshiner

The buff to Tentacular Dread is good, I just don't think it's good enough to Replace Fatecarver in a rotation. If they want to do that, they might need to improve the debuff or make it benefit direct damage or status effects or something.