Thank you, thank you, thank you! (vampire undeath nerf)

Wuuffyy · July 8

I'm going to keep this short and sweet...

After all of these years, it's finally (and rightfully) decimated... UNDEATH!!!

I really dislike how we've now, somehow- made actually playing vamp more irrelevant the werewolf BUT, for now... AN AMAZING STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION for ALL of PvP balance. Vampire was originally nerfed/changed because it was only used for its passive, and it remained that way in PvP after those initial changes/its overhaul because of that one, singular passive.

At this point, vampire is now in desperate need of an overhaul to make the skills and passives synergize better with each other while providing meaningful value (without becoming a slot and forget like undeath was).

Awesome job, ZOS!

TX12001rwb17_ESO · July 8

> Vampire was originally nerfed/changed because it was only used for its passive,

Uhh no I used it in PvP so I could avoid gankers and other players.

Blackrim · July 8

Don't touch vampire passives they're fine they just need readjustments to provide incentive to move up.

Wuuffyy · July 8

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

> Vampire was originally nerfed/changed because it was only used for its passive,

Uhh no I used it in PvP so I could avoid gankers and other players.

Definitely citing the time the passive was recov and it was used by EVERYONE for the free sustain.

Blackrim wrote: »

Don't touch vampire passives they're fine they just need readjustments to provide incentive to move up.

Haha! That's a very, very hilarious joke lol. I almost spit my coffee out at this one.

Zyaneth_Bal · July 9

Gankers got a buff and ppl still heal to full in a single gcd. Undeath was never the main issue just overhyped. This will only incentivize ppl to use 100-0 builds even more which has become a big issue as a result of healing being too strong.

Wuuffyy · July 9

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Gankers got a buff and ppl still heal to full in a single gcd. Undeath was never the main issue just overhyped. This will only incentivize ppl to use 100-0 builds even more which has become a big issue as a result of healing being too strong.

I know everyone that references undeath as "not overpowered" was absolutely using it on every, or near-every build. I get wanting to defend something that is clearly over tuned because you liked the benefits. I can relate to the feeling.

However, let us not pretend that up to 30% mitigation off of a passive for (because the passive itself negated other downsides such as flame damage+extra FG skill damage) an 8% cost increase, was balanced.

There isn't a single 5 piece set or mythic in the game that even gives you half of that efficiency for the full investment of a gimmicky mythic OR a FULL 5 PC set.

The closest thing to Undeath was a full, heavy 5pc Pariah and even then- that only maxes out at 16% and is still partially-pen able or fully pen able (unlike undeath with a free percentage decrease that could not necessarily be penned what-so-ever).

StarOfElyon · July 9

Giggity.

Wuuffyy · July 9

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Gankers got a buff and ppl still heal to full in a single gcd. Undeath was never the main issue just overhyped. This will only incentivize ppl to use 100-0 builds even more which has become a big issue as a result of healing being too strong.

I agree healing is a problem and we should go for healing next; personally, I think a buff of defile would be an amazing start.

If you're saying that people will start using 100-0 builds BECAUSE of this change alone, then you are further proving how ridiculously overpowered this one passive was by equating that near-everyone was running vampire for the passive (because they sure az weren't running the haphazard skills, and that's clearly visible).

Zyaneth_Bal · July 9

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Gankers got a buff and ppl still heal to full in a single gcd. Undeath was never the main issue just overhyped. This will only incentivize ppl to use 100-0 builds even more which has become a big issue as a result of healing being too strong.

I agree healing is a problem and we should go for healing next; personally, I think a buff of defile would be an amazing start.

If you're saying that people will start using 100-0 builds BECAUSE of this change alone, then you are further proving how ridiculously overpowered this one passive was by equating that near-everyone was running vampire for the passive (because they sure az weren't running the haphazard skills, and that's clearly visible).

I never said that. In fact I think it’s clear from my post that I meant undeath as part of the issue. My point was that the nerf could have other unintended effects that have to be addressed one way or another.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · July 9

Without undeath protecting you the gankers are going to be much worse, trust me when I say the gankers are worse then the Vampire tanks.

master_vanargand · July 9

Everyone can adapt to avoid being killed by Gankers.
PvPers will find ways to survive as always.
But there's no point in crying here.
Use your head and rethink your survival strategy.

LittlePinkDot · July 9

Good riddance. Now it will be more fair to me since I never like ruining my characters looks.

kookie · July 9

The type of people who have been whinging for undeath nerf are the same guys who reminisce on the "good old days" of 1v50. +1 for the toxic sweatlords. Any other mid who thought that nerfing it would help you win against skilled players, you were mistaken, you will die so much faster now lol.

Wuuffyy · July 9

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Gankers got a buff and ppl still heal to full in a single gcd. Undeath was never the main issue just overhyped. This will only incentivize ppl to use 100-0 builds even more which has become a big issue as a result of healing being too strong.

I agree healing is a problem and we should go for healing next; personally, I think a buff of defile would be an amazing start.

If you're saying that people will start using 100-0 builds BECAUSE of this change alone, then you are further proving how ridiculously overpowered this one passive was by equating that near-everyone was running vampire for the passive (because they sure az weren't running the haphazard skills, and that's clearly visible).

I never said that. In fact I think it’s clear from my post that I meant undeath as part of the issue. My point was that the nerf could have other unintended effects that have to be addressed one way or another.

Address them (unintended consequences/other unbalanced PvP aspects) next. PvP has a lower player count and can easily take the ramifications of any unintended consequences here; especially when there is a clear positive to the overall health of PvP.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · July 9

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Gankers got a buff and ppl still heal to full in a single gcd. Undeath was never the main issue just overhyped. This will only incentivize ppl to use 100-0 builds even more which has become a big issue as a result of healing being too strong.

I agree healing is a problem and we should go for healing next; personally, I think a buff of defile would be an amazing start.

If you're saying that people will start using 100-0 builds BECAUSE of this change alone, then you are further proving how ridiculously overpowered this one passive was by equating that near-everyone was running vampire for the passive (because they sure az weren't running the haphazard skills, and that's clearly visible).

I never said that. In fact I think it’s clear from my post that I meant undeath as part of the issue. My point was that the nerf could have other unintended effects that have to be addressed one way or another.

Address them (unintended consequences/other unbalanced PvP aspects) next. PvP has a lower player count and can easily take the ramifications of any unintended consequences here; especially when there is a clear positive to the overall health of PvP.

Well being stage 1 might mean you will see a lot more vampires.

However this defense Undeath provided to so many would of discouraged Gank Builds, without it's presence the lack of defensive power might actually bring many Gank Builds back into PvP and they will be targeting Werewolves as well.

Wuuffyy · July 9

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Gankers got a buff and ppl still heal to full in a single gcd. Undeath was never the main issue just overhyped. This will only incentivize ppl to use 100-0 builds even more which has become a big issue as a result of healing being too strong.

I agree healing is a problem and we should go for healing next; personally, I think a buff of defile would be an amazing start.

If you're saying that people will start using 100-0 builds BECAUSE of this change alone, then you are further proving how ridiculously overpowered this one passive was by equating that near-everyone was running vampire for the passive (because they sure az weren't running the haphazard skills, and that's clearly visible).

I never said that. In fact I think it’s clear from my post that I meant undeath as part of the issue. My point was that the nerf could have other unintended effects that have to be addressed one way or another.

Address them (unintended consequences/other unbalanced PvP aspects) next. PvP has a lower player count and can easily take the ramifications of any unintended consequences here; especially when there is a clear positive to the overall health of PvP.

Well being stage 1 might mean you will see a lot more vampires.

However this defense Undeath provided to so many would of discouraged Gank Builds, without it's presence the lack of defensive power might actually bring many Gank Builds back into PvP and they will be targeting Werewolves as well.

Then nerf ganks too.

Although if you can't figure out how to use the free detec skill on your front bar/ detect pot- that's on you.

I fully believe that people will wholly be dropping vampire outside of nb.

It's a 5% damage decrease @ 50% health.

Wuuffyy · July 9

Wuuffyy wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Gankers got a buff and ppl still heal to full in a single gcd. Undeath was never the main issue just overhyped. This will only incentivize ppl to use 100-0 builds even more which has become a big issue as a result of healing being too strong.

I agree healing is a problem and we should go for healing next; personally, I think a buff of defile would be an amazing start.

If you're saying that people will start using 100-0 builds BECAUSE of this change alone, then you are further proving how ridiculously overpowered this one passive was by equating that near-everyone was running vampire for the passive (because they sure az weren't running the haphazard skills, and that's clearly visible).

I never said that. In fact I think it’s clear from my post that I meant undeath as part of the issue. My point was that the nerf could have other unintended effects that have to be addressed one way or another.

Address them (unintended consequences/other unbalanced PvP aspects) next. PvP has a lower player count and can easily take the ramifications of any unintended consequences here; especially when there is a clear positive to the overall health of PvP.

Well being stage 1 might mean you will see a lot more vampires.

However this defense Undeath provided to so many would of discouraged Gank Builds, without it's presence the lack of defensive power might actually bring many Gank Builds back into PvP and they will be targeting Werewolves as well.

Then nerf ganks too.

Although if you can't figure out how to use the free detec skill on your front bar/ detect pot- that's on you.

I fully believe that people will wholly be dropping vampire outside of nb.

It's a 5% damage decrease @ 50% health.

These are very great changes for PvP. I am honestly somewhat looking forward to the official "PvP patch" and its subsequent, corresponding changes as well.

Panderbander · July 10

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Gankers got a buff and ppl still heal to full in a single gcd. Undeath was never the main issue just overhyped. This will only incentivize ppl to use 100-0 builds even more which has become a big issue as a result of healing being too strong.

I agree healing is a problem and we should go for healing next; personally, I think a buff of defile would be an amazing start.

If you're saying that people will start using 100-0 builds BECAUSE of this change alone, then you are further proving how ridiculously overpowered this one passive was by equating that near-everyone was running vampire for the passive (because they sure az weren't running the haphazard skills, and that's clearly visible).

I never said that. In fact I think it’s clear from my post that I meant undeath as part of the issue. My point was that the nerf could have other unintended effects that have to be addressed one way or another.

Address them (unintended consequences/other unbalanced PvP aspects) next. PvP has a lower player count and can easily take the ramifications of any unintended consequences here; especially when there is a clear positive to the overall health of PvP.

Well being stage 1 might mean you will see a lot more vampires.

However this defense Undeath provided to so many would of discouraged Gank Builds, without it's presence the lack of defensive power might actually bring many Gank Builds back into PvP and they will be targeting Werewolves as well.

What werewolves?

Wuuffyy · July 10

Panderbander wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

Gankers got a buff and ppl still heal to full in a single gcd. Undeath was never the main issue just overhyped. This will only incentivize ppl to use 100-0 builds even more which has become a big issue as a result of healing being too strong.

I agree healing is a problem and we should go for healing next; personally, I think a buff of defile would be an amazing start.

If you're saying that people will start using 100-0 builds BECAUSE of this change alone, then you are further proving how ridiculously overpowered this one passive was by equating that near-everyone was running vampire for the passive (because they sure az weren't running the haphazard skills, and that's clearly visible).

I never said that. In fact I think it’s clear from my post that I meant undeath as part of the issue. My point was that the nerf could have other unintended effects that have to be addressed one way or another.

Address them (unintended consequences/other unbalanced PvP aspects) next. PvP has a lower player count and can easily take the ramifications of any unintended consequences here; especially when there is a clear positive to the overall health of PvP.

Well being stage 1 might mean you will see a lot more vampires.

However this defense Undeath provided to so many would of discouraged Gank Builds, without it's presence the lack of defensive power might actually bring many Gank Builds back into PvP and they will be targeting Werewolves as well.

What werewolves?

Hahahahahahahahah, right?! All the jokes in these 'undeath' threads lol.

Turtle_Bot · July 10

I hope they make a few other changes to the vamp passives, most notably, adjust strike from the shadows to only work with vamp abilities only and not with any generic stealth/invis (that grants a disproportionate advantage to 1 class over all the other classes).

Hopefully some of that power they're taking away from undeath (and hopefully also remove from strike from the shadows) is shifted into the active vamp skills such that vamp is a worthwhile option for the active skills and not just for the passives.

pklemming · July 10

This patch Zos will get players to nerf themselves, which is an impressive feat. I see vamp taken by a lot of people because the nerfed undeath scales form level one, not realising that the actual % will not actually be that level of mitigation, due to the changes to multiplicative changes to mitigation. They will get a nice increase in skill cost for close to zero mitigation changes, even at 50% health

I would really like them to address the issues they caused with those changes, so there is some kind of onscreen display of true mitigation, this would highlight the disparity between the tooltip and the actual value, by giving the players a better idea of what works and what is only their for fluff, despite the tooltip.

The most disappointing changes to Vamp came with the new vampire release(Greymoor, wasn't it?). They turned a sort of useful line in to mostly garbage with the occasional poorly thought out skill. Not that ZoS would ever give us those.

Everything is perfectly balanced, always.

i_azazei_i · July 10

Now if only vampire could be reworked so it's fun to use in pve and pvp players could stop butchering it

Veinblood1965 · July 10

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Without undeath protecting you the gankers are going to be much worse, trust me when I say the gankers are worse then the Vampire tanks.

Very true, my nightblade is wetting his lips as we speak. Although it might deal a little with damaging the ball groups.

katorga · July 10

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Without undeath protecting you the gankers are going to be much worse, trust me when I say the gankers are worse then the Vampire tanks.

Very true, my nightblade is wetting his lips as we speak. Although it might deal a little with damaging the ball groups.

It will be a huge buff for ball groups, maybe a bigger buff than for gankers, imo. Ball groups don't need undeath now, their combined heals per second cover it.

Lags · July 10

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I'm going to keep this short and sweet...

After all of these years, it's finally (and rightfully) decimated... UNDEATH!!!

I really dislike how we've now, somehow- made actually playing vamp more irrelevant the werewolf BUT, for now... AN AMAZING STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION for ALL of PvP balance. Vampire was originally nerfed/changed because it was only used for its passive, and it remained that way in PvP after those initial changes/its overhaul because of that one, singular passive.

At this point, vampire is now in desperate need of an overhaul to make the skills and passives synergize better with each other while providing meaningful value (without becoming a slot and forget like undeath was).

Awesome job, ZOS!

I just hope you enjoy not being able to counter getting ganked next update. unless you yourself play a ganker, which would make sense. then you're fine ig. the nerf was needed, but they need to nerf damage in some way, certain proc sets, nightblade crit damage, etc. to be honest, if nightblade didnt exist i would have almost no issue with this change.

CameraBeardThePirate · July 10

Lags wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I'm going to keep this short and sweet...

After all of these years, it's finally (and rightfully) decimated... UNDEATH!!!

I really dislike how we've now, somehow- made actually playing vamp more irrelevant the werewolf BUT, for now... AN AMAZING STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION for ALL of PvP balance. Vampire was originally nerfed/changed because it was only used for its passive, and it remained that way in PvP after those initial changes/its overhaul because of that one, singular passive.

At this point, vampire is now in desperate need of an overhaul to make the skills and passives synergize better with each other while providing meaningful value (without becoming a slot and forget like undeath was).

Awesome job, ZOS!

I just hope you enjoy not being able to counter getting ganked next update. unless you yourself play a ganker, which would make sense. then you're fine ig. the nerf was needed, but they need to nerf damage in some way, certain proc sets, nightblade crit damage, etc. to be honest, if nightblade didnt exist i would have almost no issue with this change.

I haven't run Undeath in months and have no problem against gankers.

I believe the phrase is "get good".

robpr · July 10

Don't forget we got damage mitigation calculation change last patch, we take more damage now without undeath. I expect 1-shot builds to be even more common than before.

StarOfElyon · July 11

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I hope they make a few other changes to the vamp passives, most notably, adjust strike from the shadows to only work with vamp abilities only and not with any generic stealth/invis (that grants a disproportionate advantage to 1 class over all the other classes).

Hopefully some of that power they're taking away from undeath (and hopefully also remove from strike from the shadows) is shifted into the active vamp skills such that vamp is a worthwhile option for the active skills and not just for the passives.

They might as well call Strike From the Shadows by the nickname "Nightblade passive".

StarOfElyon · July 11

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Without undeath protecting you the gankers are going to be much worse, trust me when I say the gankers are worse then the Vampire tanks.

My last character to go stage three was dropped to stage one probably a month ago. Ganking isn't the problem, it's when you have multiple people focusing you that's the problem. But in that situation, you probably should be dying.

Afterip · July 12

Its good that @ZOS finally nerfed undeath. And what if they change 1-10% resistance to major resolve. As undeath require only 1 vam stage so many pvp or pve player would to choose do they want to use class resolve buff or just be a vamp.

Lucifer9th · July 12

It's ok as it is, they divide the bonus of undeath by 3 so they divide the malus by a little less than 3, it' s fair