110 maps = 1 Apocryphal Well. Less than 1%.

MoonPile

I was curious to actually track this:

Over the past 2 weeks (more so since Zenithar started & maps can be found regularly < 10,000 g, PC NA), I bought and used a combined total of 110 Telvanni Penisula and Apocrypha Maps to try to unlock the Apocryphal Well to buy (9 pieces): https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Apocryphal_Well

3 leads out of 110 maps. ONE Well. < 1% chance.

Everything else from the zone is unlocked, have multiple. Some of the maps were cheap, but it's ~ a million altogether. And that's nothing compared to the 40 mil+ some players spent in the last year to get these leads while they were newer. Knowing that, I'd lost interest and stopped trying until now.

I gave up on some of my building ideas involving the Well. That's the lamest part, to me: Surely furnishings are meant to be used, and I would have been logged in and playing anyway, since housing takes so much time. Rather than wasting time and gold on a < 1% chance.

...

Likewise West Weald:
I use a few free & cheap maps; some lead chances seem much better than Necrom's (grateful for that). But I'll likely pretend the Ayleid structures don't exist for at least a year.

Not to mention the Trifold Mirror.
Stuck on a 6th lead for months and months. Lost count. I'm so sick of Nightmare WB, even though I only do it rarely in passing now. I hate that fight, and this RNG mechanic. 🤮 It'd be fine for it to take a few tries if it's meant to get players to return to old content. But the chances are so bad for some, I never touch that place again after completion, even if I liked it before.

But we keep saying this and it seems unheard. So this is just data, albeit individual, for other players.


UPDATE:
I finally completed the Well: 9 leads. I only have data for the most recent 5 leads: those took ~170 maps = roughly 3% chance. I was predictably getting one lead every ~35-45 maps.

All of the other map-locked antiquities have a much better drop rate; I have multiples of all of them by now. In my tests, that 1-3% chance above was NOT affected by whether others are dug up or not, so if you don't need more of something (*cough* Tribunal Window *cough*), don't be afraid to leave it un-scryed.

Kappachi

that's what drives these map prices up and makes them worth selling. valuable things from leads should be more common, puts more gold in my pocket when i find the maps, feels good for everyone.

MoonPile

Kappachi wrote: »

that's what drives these map prices up and makes them worth selling. valuable things from leads should be more common, puts more gold in my pocket when i find the maps, feels good for everyone.

If leads were more common, that would be fine.

For example I also buy Summerset maps because I like one of the book furnishings from them: they drop pretty reasonably and since they can't be bought at a vendor, that ensures that map's usefulness and value.

But I don't agree with < 1% at all. And even a million gold isn't a little to a lot of players; it's a shame that only the richest players can even afford a chance at one single item.

Araneae6537

THIS! This is why putting antiquity leads behind treasure map RNG is just AWFUL! It doesn’t encourage me to do content (what content would I do? treasure maps are random), it doesn’t encourage me to do anything but want to BURN these horrid things for knowing it will almost certainly bring disappointment and frustration.

I would rather no antiquity leads behind treasure maps, but I was okay with the ancestral motifs because I could buy the motif instead. I’m happy to buy ITEMS, from players or ZOS. Buying a chance for an item is GARBAGE and I’m done with it.

I would rather buy Crown crates than treasure maps, because those I buy with the expectation of an average rate of accumulation of Gems with a chance of getting something better — i.e., no disappointment but a chance for pleasant surprise.

CGPsaint

I've burned through well over 300 maps and am still sitting missing 2 leads for my second codex entry for the Apocryphal Well. I've given up because it's not worth the gold, time, or the frustration of getting the other leads over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Hapexamendios

I've completely given up on filling up the codex or even going after some of these treasure chest leads. To me they are just not worth the frustration.

MoonPile

CGPsaint wrote: »

I've burned through well over 300 maps and am still sitting missing 2 leads for my second codex entry for the Apocryphal Well. I've given up because it's not worth the gold, time, or the frustration of getting the other leads over and over and over and over and over and over again.

I think you might be one of the players whose posts I saw many months ago, and someone else who actually did unlock it fully spent tens of millions – a few insights like that made me stop trying completely. Until now, when prices tanked enough.

Also FWIW:
For this particular test, this was my 2nd Well unlocked (I didn't track the first), and I let every other TP lead sit un-scryed. I've heard various things about that, like that digging them up is better luck. But at in this stack of 100, I didn't find that it had any effect on chances – either way it takes 30-50 maps of garbage before hitting one Well lead.

Virenic

When Telvanni Peninsula maps were available at the archive vendor I burned through ~200 maps and got one well lead (for my second well). Agree that the drop rates are far too low for these.

As much as people were unhappy about ancestral motifs being sourced from treasure maps, that was a much better system than what we have now. I'm choosing to just ignore the West Weald treasure map antiquities for now.

EdjeSwift

In my personal experience over the hundreds of antiquities, mythics, and leads I've farmed; the second of any lead is normally significantly more painful to farm than any other. The third and onward seems to drop quite more liberally.

ShadowPaladin

And this is the reason why I do not bother with farming or buying treasure maps! The chances of getting a lead from them are so damn ******* (u can imagine the word) low, that its not worth my time.

If the chances would be at least at 50-50 or if there would be a way to farm treasure maps for certain zones, it would be at least a bit better.

Necrotech_Master

i think ive only ever gotten 1 lead for the well, and it was one that was offered from the archive vendor very very early after the archive release

never seen any other piece of it since then lol

katanagirl1

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i think ive only ever gotten 1 lead for the well, and it was one that was offered from the archive vendor very very early after the archive release

never seen any other piece of it since then lol

Same here. I do not buy expensive treasure maps to be rewarded with super low rng. I just recently (in the last week or so) got the last lead for the Spriggan skin from a Galen map that dropped for me.

The only maps I have bought are the ones that have furnishing book leads, and only spent 500 gold or less each for them. Still, it took quite a few maps to get them all.

EDIT: clarification

Araneae6537

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i think ive only ever gotten 1 lead for the well, and it was one that was offered from the archive vendor very very early after the archive release

never seen any other piece of it since then lol

Same here. I do not buy expensive treasure maps to be rewarded with super low rng. I just recently (in the last week or so) got the last lead for the Spriggan skin from a Galen map that dropped for me.

The only maps I have bought are the ones that have furnishing book leads, and only spent 500 gold or less each for them. Still, it took quite a few maps to get them all.

EDIT: clarification

Yes, the furnishing books were better, both because the chances were MUCH higher, 500-1000 gold or so per map is not a big deal, and one could curate the books one had a chance of getting. It was all rather a pain though, stacking maps in the mail before going to dig them up with the right character (one whom I was reasonably certain had read only the needed book of the possibilities) but the odds were high enough and the cost low enough that one could prepare for the task and then complete it. I think it would have been better if the books were unbound and players could just trade or sell for those they wanted, but whatever, I’m glad for the books that were added — and glad I completed my collection before Necrom antiquity leads completely soured me on treasure maps!

Necrotech_Master

Araneae6537 wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i think ive only ever gotten 1 lead for the well, and it was one that was offered from the archive vendor very very early after the archive release

never seen any other piece of it since then lol

Same here. I do not buy expensive treasure maps to be rewarded with super low rng. I just recently (in the last week or so) got the last lead for the Spriggan skin from a Galen map that dropped for me.

The only maps I have bought are the ones that have furnishing book leads, and only spent 500 gold or less each for them. Still, it took quite a few maps to get them all.

EDIT: clarification

Yes, the furnishing books were better, both because the chances were MUCH higher, 500-1000 gold or so per map is not a big deal, and one could curate the books one had a chance of getting. It was all rather a pain though, stacking maps in the mail before going to dig them up with the right character (one whom I was reasonably certain had read only the needed book of the possibilities) but the odds were high enough and the cost low enough that one could prepare for the task and then complete it. I think it would have been better if the books were unbound and players could just trade or sell for those they wanted, but whatever, I’m glad for the books that were added — and glad I completed my collection before Necrom antiquity leads completely soured me on treasure maps!

me personally i never really bothered with treasure maps at all until they had leads in them, because in terms of other items it was no better than say an intermediate/advanced level chest

i do absolutely agree that the drop rate on the leads from treasure maps is too low, so i wont bother buying them, but i use them whenever i do obtain the maps i still need leads from

CGPsaint

All of the furnishings aquired from digging up treasure maps should have a single codex entry and should be purchasable from the achievement vendor from that point forward. I'm not asking for these leads/furnishings to be handed to us, but I'm also not interested in dropping 10-20 million gold and having to to dig up 500-1000 maps for even a remote chance of banging out all three codex entries for 9-10 different furnishings. Enough is enough. At the very least make all of the leads for furnishings have the same drop rate. I have gobs of all of the Apocrypha furnishings and only 1 Apocryphal Well to show for my wasted efforts. It's not necessary and it's certainly not fun.

Rkindaleft

Personally, I don't mind if the leads drop from treasure maps but what I do mind is that they shouldn't have put an RNG system behind another RNG system.

You either buy the specific map you need (potentially expensive) or farm it until you get the specific map you need as a drop (rare, and RNG) and then once you get past that part you're left with a relatively unjust drop rate for the leads.

Pelanora

MoonPile wrote: »

I was curious to actually track this:

Not to mention the Trifold Mirror.
Stuck on a 6th lead for months and months. Lost count. I'm so sick of Nightmare WB, even though I only do it rarely in passing now. I hate that fight, and this RNG mechanic. 🤮 It'd be fine for it to take a few tries if it's meant to get players to return to old content. But the chances are so bad for some, I never touch that place again after completion, even if I liked it before.

But we keep saying this and it seems unheard. So this is just data, albeit individual, for other players.

O no! I'd just started trying for that! That's depressing.

MoonPile

Update: I finally completed the Well. Updated the OP with some more data at the bottom.

If someone wants to see the Well live on PC NA, I left one in my Sword-Singer's temporarily, along with some other stuff:

/script JumpToSpecificHouse("@MoonPile", 103)

Rishikesa108

CGPsaint wrote: »

All of the furnishings aquired from digging up treasure maps should have a single codex entry and should be purchasable from the achievement vendor from that point forward. I'm not asking for these leads/furnishings to be handed to us, but I'm also not interested in dropping 10-20 million gold and having to to dig up 500-1000 maps for even a remote chance of banging out all three codex entries for 9-10 different furnishings. Enough is enough. At the very least make all of the leads for furnishings have the same drop rate. I have gobs of all of the Apocrypha furnishings and only 1 Apocryphal Well to show for my wasted efforts. It's not necessary and it's certainly not fun.

We can ask; we can cry; we can scream; we can despair.
But then getting is a different thing... :-(

Silaf

I've collected 3 wells. Yes i'm crazy. Let me tell you you are still lucky

LadyLethalla

EdjeSwift wrote: »

In my personal experience over the hundreds of antiquities, mythics, and leads I've farmed; the second of any lead is normally significantly more painful to farm than any other. The third and onward seems to drop quite more liberally.

Yes; I must have killed over 100 dragons to get my 2nd stained glass window lead. Third dropped shortly after that. I'm.not spending hard earned gold on maps for a slight chance at getting a lead; I'm going to wait until I get the maps as drops. So there are a lot of motifs and antiquities and mythic pieces I'll likely never get. Just like everything else.

katanagirl1

This is a ridiculous amount of effort to get one furnishing.

That is why I haven’t got one yet. I’d really like one of course, but throwing away tons of gold after a chance to get one just isn’t appealing to me.

fastolfv_ESO

saw this thread recently and decided to try my luck to see how long it would take to get the well. I bought every apocrypha map i could find between 10-20k a piece and started the grind. Took me around 300k and change in maps, i think around 40 to get the 3 leads, now i may have gotten lucky but thats what it was for me. The first 2 leads were within the first 6 maps but the third one took alot longer and i think its like that intentionally to have a lead so much more rare than the other 2 even though they all come from treasure maps. All in all 300k and change isnt too bad for an interactive housing item but i dont think the wells worth it, especially for the people who end up spending a mil+ from bad luck with leads

NoticeMeArkay

I stopped buying maps. Since the release of Necrom I've used up a couple hundred and I'm still looking at an unfinished codex. I can think of more fun things to spend my gold on.

Araneae6537

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

saw this thread recently and decided to try my luck to see how long it would take to get the well. I bought every apocrypha map i could find between 10-20k a piece and started the grind. Took me around 300k and change in maps, i think around 40 to get the 3 leads, now i may have gotten lucky but thats what it was for me. The first 2 leads were within the first 6 maps but the third one took alot longer and i think its like that intentionally to have a lead so much more rare than the other 2 even though they all come from treasure maps. All in all 300k and change isnt too bad for an interactive housing item but i dont think the wells worth it, especially for the people who end up spending a mil+ from bad luck with leads

Was it your first or second Apocrypha Well? I got one from treasure map leads during the Telvanni Peninsula event last year. The odds @MoonPile has shared are for getting leads after the first one has been completed.

redspecter23

I've been stonewalled on this for my codex for months.

It took me 4 total maps to get my first Well. Just 4 total maps.

The next 400+ maps have resulted in exactly 1 lead.

I'd say something is up with the drop rates on this one. This drop rate is not ok.

MoonPile

redspecter23 wrote: »

I've been stonewalled on this for my codex for months.

It took me 4 total maps to get my first Well. Just 4 total maps.

The next 400+ maps have resulted in exactly 1 lead.

I'd say something is up with the drop rates on this one. This drop rate is not ok.

Wow! Since each of my Well leads took roughly the same number of maps, I thought it was a fair estimate for others... I guess not.

I wonder if it depends on anything, like if character-specific RNG is real (I use my Arcanist), or process (I bulk-dig 10+ in a day).

Araneae6537

MoonPile wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I've been stonewalled on this for my codex for months.

It took me 4 total maps to get my first Well. Just 4 total maps.

The next 400+ maps have resulted in exactly 1 lead.

I'd say something is up with the drop rates on this one. This drop rate is not ok.

Wow! Since each of my Well leads took roughly the same number of maps, I thought it was a fair estimate for others... I guess not.

I wonder if it depends on anything, like if character-specific RNG is real (I use my Arcanist), or process (I bulk-dig 10+ in a day).

Really? Even your first? I have not kept record at all, but the second seems to be the worst.

Necrotech_Master

i finished collecting my first well last week while the telvanni maps were at the archive vendor, it only took me 2 sets of zone maps from telvanni/apocrypha to get the last 2 well leads (i also ended up getting several other furnishing leads from this as well so either i had a luck streak there or they improved drops in treasure maps lol)

MoonPile

PSA for those still on the hunt: the Lead: Emergent Shadow is at Filer Ool's in IA this week:


And today there's an Endeavor to spend 2K seals

CGPsaint

MoonPile wrote: »

PSA for those still on the hunt: the Lead: Emergent Shadow is at Filer Ool's in IA this week:


And today there's an Endeavor to spend 2K seals

Of course this is the 1 of 3 leads that I already have...